[quote=coolshoos]

1. God (uncreated, before time and eternal).

2. People who " fear " God and evil, who respect free choice for all. Affirm good and evil.  (Conservative.)

3. People who fear God and evil, who interpret choices for others. (Radical Muslim.)

3. People who fear God, who respect free choice. (Liberal.)

Liberals see themselves as reasonable moderators between conservatives and radicals. They do not recognize evil, rather, through positive affirmations (mainly just thinking) they create their own reality. From the perspective of both conservatives and radicals, they have become " baby Gods ", since liberals negative half of the basic tenet of free choice (they don't believe evil really exists).

There is no logical end to this debate - their is only faith and behavioural affirmation, and human thought.

[/quote]

Liberals are Godless.

Coolshoos,

Let me get this straight, you want to talk religion with me?

Have I given you some sort of signal that I need saving?

Have you given me some sort of signal that your views on religion are somehow redemptive?

Religion is a very deep place for me. Religion is personal and I don't trust you enough to discuss it with you.

Suffice it to say that you seem to wear your religion like a badge of righteousness, and that by itself is enough to make me want to puke on your shoes!

Spoken like a true liberal and repeating what Shrillary had to say, “Religion is personal to me.”  Well said Whomit.  Now if the Imams and the other radicals would keep theirs personal, we could end this entire issue, but they will continue to push for subjection or destruction of the infedels (Whomit, that would be me and you!).

FFJ,

I'm sorry, was I speaking to you?

Oops, I didn’t realize that this is your private posting ground. If you want to PM cool to keep it private then go right ahead, otherwise you are subject to scrutiny.  Besides, I know you’re sorry. You didn’t have to remind me of that.

Scrutiny? Skrewtinyou!

What scrutiny? That's what you call scrutiny? "Spoken like a true Liberal"? Take your jejune commentary and cram it up you pewhole!

And put your insipid name "Shrilary" there too, I'm sure you have the room!

[quote=joedabrkr]

Do you believe that a Lutheran or a Baptist or an Episcopalian is the same as a Roman Catholic, then?

[/quote]

No, nor do I believe that Lutherns or Baptists are the same as Muslims.

The fact remains that anybody who does not take the Quran literally is considered to be an infidel--just like you and me.

I'm not a moderate Muslim?  Are you?  If not why do you think other infidels are moderate Muslims?

Why do you choose to not believe that every Muslim on earth wishes you were dead?  They may not be willing to kill you themselves, but they damn sure don't object when the killings occur.

Do they?

[quote=joedabrkr]

Why do you presume that all Muslims are the same as the radical fringe element that you continue to describe?
[/quote]

I'm saying that it's not a "fringe."  Islam is a religion based on revenge and violence and that guy who you think is your friend would not intervene if a fellow Muslim was going to cut your head off.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Coolshoos,

Let me get this straight, you want to talk religion with me?

Have I given you some sort of signal that I need saving?

Have you given me some sort of signal that your views on religion are somehow redemptive?

Religion is a very deep place for me. Religion is personal and I don't trust you enough to discuss it with you.

Suffice it to say that you seem to wear your religion like a badge of righteousness, and that by itself is enough to make me want to puke on your shoes!

[/quote]

Honestly, I expected a more intellectual response.

Instead, you attack me, and infer that I attacked you or am trying to school you.

This is disappointing, but like I said, I believe that the conservative and fundamental views do run outside of logic.

With regards to debate, take an honest look at your response to my comments. Your response is anti intellectual. I'm sorry for you.

Liberals are Godless.

When you take this comment in the Ann Coulter sense, it is a very mean comment - and also strictly true.

- In the sense, as just proved by Whomit, when you take God out of the debate, the liberal point of view is Godless.

Which is kind of interesting, considering the definition of Jiihad, and such.

But the real issue here has about as much to do with logic as does the persecution of registered reps by other interests in this industry.

(Ranting.)

[ Whomit, the self proclaimed purveyor of the wide ranging, all embracing and compassionate and reasonable liberal viewpoint, refuses to discuss " religion " (actually, it's the existence of good and evil, and whether that topic has any bearing on the fundamentalist Muslim problem as it threatens our economic well being.]

Who gets to define the playing field, then? By taking certain issues off the table, we have three distinct playing fields - liberal, conservative, and fundamentalist.

Who will come play over here, who gets dragged over to that field.

Hence, the comment, Liberals are Godless.

A phrase that recognizes the apparently inevitable conclusion: through a single phrase, the conservative position is to institutionalize the position of liberals and move on.

Still, the liberals should have a gnawing thought in the back of their minds at night, what is evil is real... could it be possible?

I'd like to see Hillary, or Obama, even have the guts to utter the word evil in public.

Godless.

Liberals are Godless. And conservatives are God? Many of those who appear to be conservatives on this board are definately not Christian - placing judgement, desiring to kill, acting as gods themselves.



One who believes they can do no wrong is not a Christian. George W is the first person who comes to mind here. Maybe he is “God” with all of you sheep accepting his every word, however illiteriate it might be, as gospel.



I hope you sleep well tonight. I know I will, right after I pray for you and W.

late spell check - definitely

Another example of not listening and responding to what I said.

If you respond to the basic question of whether evil is real, and whether it has any bearing on the viewpoint of liberals, you are debating.

Saying I said that liberals are Godless, which is not my precise point, is anti-intellectual - you have twisted and ducked.

If you're not following the debate, or if you are just avoiding the question, it is obvious.

By the way, do you believe evil is real, or is it just an intellectual construct? Do you understand the importance of this question with regard to current events?

Fundamentalist Muslims believe that evil is real - this is the first premise upon which their behaviour is based.

American conservatives believe that evil is real - this is the first premise upon which their behaviour is based.

American liberals - perhaps the majority - believe that evil is an intellectual construct. They believe freedom comes from nature, because they do not recognize that free choice, the choice between good, which is real, and evil, which is real - that free choice comes from God.

Because we are made in the image of God, all of us have the potential to become Saints. Think about it, you could quit your worldly concerns and retreat to the spiritual life and become more like God. You can't do it by thinking, you have to recognize the definition of God.

The point is, evil is real, and must be dealt with as such.

I challenge anyone on this forum who is a "liberal", and who believes evil is real, to go forward in debate with regards to how to handle the radical Islam question.

I seriously doubt this will happen. But since the recognition of good and evil is important to recognizing God, the refusal to acknowledge this point or to take it off the table as being " religious discussion" makes the discussion Godless, which apparently is a characteristic of many liberals here. End of discussion?

[quote=Oldproducer]Liberals are Godless. And conservatives are God? Many of those who appear to be conservatives on this board are definately not Christian - placing judgement, desiring to kill, acting as gods themselves.

One who believes they can do no wrong is not a Christian. George W is the first person who comes to mind here. Maybe he is "God" with all of you sheep accepting his every word, however illiteriate it might be, as gospel.

I hope you sleep well tonight. I know I will, right after I pray for you and W.[/quote]

If you re read everything I said above, consider making an apology. This type of muddling is intellectual terrorism. Are you drinking or just being emotional?

Coolshoos,

I get to choose whom I speak with about what. I am solely responsible for what I say and I hold personal responsibility in very high regard.

You want to know if I believe that evil is a real thing? You mean a real thing like air? You mean a real thing like rocks? You mean a real thing like gravity. Or do you mean a real thing like time.

Do you mean a real thing like God? Do you mean as in "the power of Satan?"

What do you mean by "real"?

If you are going to ask me questions about my beliefs you'd better be sure that you  know what you're asking. You'd better know that the path for here to your enlightenment is long, hard and f**king wierd!

I have spent a big part of my life contemplating these issues and they can't be tied up in neat little bundles. Considering the crowd that gathers at this watering hole, this is not a discussion that would benefit either of us.

You mention "Free Will' as if its a throwaway line, as if its the easy answer to all our problems, unbderstand "Free Will" and understand everything. That tells me that you have a perfunctory aquaintence with the concept at best.

If you can show me that I've underestimated you, more power to ya' but I have to tell you, not yet! 

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Coolshoos,

I get to choose whom I speak with about what. I am solely responsible for what I say and I hold personal responsibility in very high regard.

You want to know if I believe that evil is a real thing? You mean a real thing like air? You mean a real thing like rocks? You mean a real thing like gravity. Or do you mean a real thing like time.

Do you mean a real thing like God? Do you mean as in "the power of Satan?"

What do you mean by "real"?

If you are going to ask me questions about my beliefs you'd better be sure that you  know what you're asking. You'd better know that the path for here to your enlightenment is long, hard and f**king wierd!

I have spent a big part of my life contemplating these issues and they can't be tied up in neat little bundles. Considering the crowd that gathers at this watering hole, this is not a discussion that would benefit either of us.

You mention "Free Will' as if its a throwaway line, as if its the easy answer to all our problems, unbderstand "Free Will" and understand everything. That tells me that you have a perfunctory aquaintence with the concept at best.

If you can show me that I've underestimated you, more power to ya' but I have to tell you, not yet! 

[/quote]

I guess that answers my question.

Like I said, think about it, and if you want to progress one inch in this debate, stop defining the playing field to exclude God.

Kind of ironic, isn't it, that the fundamentalist Islam which threatens our economic security and peace of mind does not neatly exclude God.

But I respect your right to decline the question.

Just don't paint me as some pandering kid seeking enlightenment, that is unfair.