Playing politics ..

Hillary playing politics with contingency plans proves she unworthy of the office she seeks.

As with all fables Mikebutler222, there is a basis in fact.

Perhaps on your planet. Your fiction about Katrina is the same as your fiction about the "stolen election". You repeat it like a sacred text, even though it won't stand the slightest honest examination.

And if the US oil companies weren't doing business with the Saud family ....

More proof that you can't grasp bin Laden's stated agenda, so you have to subsitute your own. It's fine, pretend all you like that biun Laden's just a disaffected liberal upset with US foreign policy. People not deluded by your hyper-partisanship know better and will do the work required to make sure that you'll never have to face the day when some Al Qaeda operative laughs in your face as you explain you're a kindred spirit, and disaffect too, as your head is removed from your body.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Knowledge of Pakistani nuclear weapons keep us from expanding the war into their territory (which is why the Al queda is now keeping sanctuary there).[/quote]

Actually we don't fear <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Pakistan's nuclear weapons, because Pakistan’s government isn’t hostile to the US. What we fear is what an US incursion into Pakistan would to do the fragile internal politics there, and how it might lead to the collapse of Musharraf’s government and the chance of a radical Islamist element taking its place. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[/quote]

Yes this is all true, but what do we care who rules Pakistan? Because the person that rules Pakistan rules Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

Please Mike, please. I know you are a smart guy, I respect your intelligence, please stop insulting mine.

[/quote]

No one's insulting your intelligence but you. You simply prove again you don’t understand the asymmetrical war we’re in.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 We don't want to see Musharriff's government fall and an Islamic one take its place because Al Qaeda would then have an entire nation to use as a training base. The fact that Pakistan has nukes is secondary, it’s doubtful they have the missiles to get them here AND, unlike Al Qaeda, even an Islamic government of Pakistan might care about having its population vaporized.

[/quote]

Mikebutler222,

That's what happens when you twist and twist and twist, youforget which line of crap you laid where.

I don't need to twist what you say, I let you say it and your own words contradict themselves.

As to your "Kindred sppirit" line. I'll tell you here and now, that I am no kindred spirit of Al queda. If when you say I am, you will be telling a lie.

Before, you were just wrong, do us all a favor and don't take it to your usual next level.

[quote=Dust Bunny][quote=BondGuy][quote=Dust Bunny]

I'm not sorry that I don't share your racist view of the Muslim world

Throwing down the race card is just another distraction to the real issue.  Islam is not a race.  It is a religion that is worldwide and includes many different nationalities and races.  You should try to know the distinction.  

There is nothing racist about my attitudes toward Islamofascist and the people who support them either actively or by silent agreement.

The left tried to use the same tactic on anyone who disagreed with the open border illegal immigration issue.  If you aren't for illegal and uncontrolled immigration you must be a racist.  If you make the remarks that the City of New Orleans and the people of New Orleans were not prepared for Katrina and that they created many of their own problems you are a racist.   If you disagree with High Priest Gore about global warming, you get compared to being a Holocaust denier.  I guess they haven't figured out how we can be tagged racists on that one......yet.

If Radical Islamists aren't going to use nuclears on the US because they know that the consequence is glassification

They know no such thing.  They don't care about it either.

[/quote]

Being prejudiced against Muslims makes you a racist whether you recognize that fact or not. You, in your posts, have lumped all Muslims together.    Horse apples!!!   What I have said is that until Muslims repudiate the actions of the Islamofascists and terrorists to show that Islam doesn't condone or promote those types of activities, they are just as bad as the terrorists.  The fact that they don't distance themselves from these actions and allow hate of others to be preached in their mosques tells me that this IS a part of Islam. 

I'm from the show me State originally.  So if the Muslim community doesn't want to be treated with suspicion, fear and hatred.....show me your good intentions. Already answered. maybe we can get a Muslim TV network going to satisfy your demand. However, as your attitude shows, can you blame Muslims in this country for keeping a low profile?

They're all bad in you view. Perhaps you don't realize that's the view you presented? DA wants to drive them out of the country. MikeB attaches terrorism to their religion in every post.

I don't want to drive anyone out of the country who is here legally.  What I want is for them to obey the laws, not whine for special favors (footbaths , segregated schools, refusing to accomodate  taxi patrons ) because of their religion and keep their religion to themselves.  I ask the same thing of Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics and Gaia worshipers.

When the terrorist attach Mohamed and their religion to their acts with every word and every action, Mike B is quite correct in connecting the two.

Many if not most of these Muslims are American citizens.  (see reply below)  No they are not.   Are you delusional? The terrorists who destroyed the World Trade Towers was here on visas, many of them expired.  Islamofascists come from all over the world.  Some may be American citizens but they are decidedly in the minority.

Yet the lynch mob is forming.   No lynch mob.  Just clear vision and self preservation.  If intelligent people, like those who reside on this board feel this way, what about those who aren't so well read?  

As for Katrina see my new topic on the bus issue. 80% of that city's population was evacuated. A success in any book.

Was the Katrina problem about race? I don't know. I do know that FEMA was in my upper middle class white neighborhood one day after Charley. Race a factor?   I hope not. I vote for incompetence as the reason for the katrina FEMA fiasco, but you be the judge.  The fiasco in New Orleans, had not so much to do with racism as with graft, corruption, incompetence, stupidity and severe damage to a city that is built under sea level.   As far as I'm concerned, there is no need to rebuild all of New Orleans at the expense of the rest of the country, only to be damaged again by the next big storn.  Turn it into an adult Mardi Gras/Jazz Music/Disneyland.   Yeah, A CITY BELOW SEA LEVEL NOT SUCH A HOT IDEA.

The poor people in New Orleans are better off being moved someplace else where they may have a chance to get out of the chains of poverty and class that existed in the City. I'm not going to cut poor people a break for their circumstances. They will be poor regardless of their address. poverty exists first as a mindset. That's not to say there aren't external factors at work in some cases. racism being one such factor. Mostly though, if your poor it's your own fault.

[/quote] [/quote]

DB, this shows just how far out on the racist limb you now find yourself. I mention Muslims who are americans and you say i'm delusional. I'm not talking about terrorist. I'm talking about our law abiding neighbors. The people who live next door, work, pay taxes, and just happen to be not protestant. Yet because i said the magic word, Muslim, you immediately connect it to the 9/11 terrorist. That's racist, whether you see it that way or not. And i'm some sort of a whack job for actually trusting these people, American citizens from the neighborhood?

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=BondGuy]

DA wants to drive them out of the country.

Many if not most of these Muslims are American citizens. Yet the lynch mob is forming. If intelligent people, like those who reside on this board feel this way, what about those who aren't so well read?

[/quote]

I don't want to run them out of the country--I want them to engage in a frenzy of buying transportation back to the sand countries from which they came.

As for the rest of the drivel above--the country is teeming, absolutely teeming, with people who would be happy to hunt Muslims as if they were deer.

Why they would want to stay in light of knowing that they're no more welcome than a dose of clap escapes me.

[/quote]

Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

A+ for honesty.

I don't know why they stay either. I guess we could ask some Black people if they know why their ancestors stayed? Or maybe we'd have better luck talking to 80 something Japanese-Americans.

As long as Muslims don't run out in front of my motorcycle on a dark night I'm Ok with them staying. Oh, what a slippery slope!

As for real deer, I'm for exterminating as many of those forest rats as I can. 8gs in vehicle damage and still counting. You can't miss them. They are attracted to headlights like a deer...well you see my problem.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Knowledge of Pakistani nuclear weapons keep us from expanding the war into their territory (which is why the Al queda is now keeping sanctuary there).[/quote]

Actually we don't fear <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Pakistan's nuclear weapons, because Pakistan’s government isn’t hostile to the US. What we fear is what an US incursion into Pakistan would to do the fragile internal politics there, and how it might lead to the collapse of Musharraf’s government and the chance of a radical Islamist element taking its place. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[/quote]

Yes this is all true, but what do we care who rules Pakistan? Because the person that rules Pakistan rules Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

Please Mike, please. I know you are a smart guy, I respect your intelligence, please stop insulting mine.

[/quote]

No one's insulting your intelligence but you. You simply prove again you don’t understand the asymmetrical war we’re in.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 We don't want to see Musharriff's government fall and an Islamic one take its place because Al Qaeda would then have an entire nation to use as a training base. The fact that Pakistan has nukes is secondary, it’s doubtful they have the missiles to get them here AND, unlike Al Qaeda, even an Islamic government of Pakistan might care about having its population vaporized.

[/quote]

Mikebutler222,

That's what happens when you twist and twist and twist, youforget which line of crap you laid where.

I don't need to twist what you say, I let you say it and your own words contradict themselves.

[/quote]

Wrong, again. It would seem there's no stick big enough to beat into you the difference between how TERRORISTS groups with no land and no population to concern themselves about, versus who GOVERNMENTS with land and populations.

Now would be a good time for you to own up to the fact that your "Mike said it" line to DB was a lie.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

As to your "Kindred sppirit" line. I'll tell you here and now, that I am no kindred spirit of Al queda. If when you say I am, you will be telling a lie. [/quote]

You've tried to impose on them YOUR grievance list about US foreign policy, YOUR agenda on them, as if you share that list.

Don’t lecture me about lies, pal, you’re the one that created a quote for DB and attributed it to me.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Knowledge of Pakistani nuclear weapons keep us from expanding the war into their territory (which is why the Al queda is now keeping sanctuary there).[/quote]

Actually we don't fear <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Pakistan's nuclear weapons, because Pakistan’s government isn’t hostile to the US. What we fear is what an US incursion into Pakistan would to do the fragile internal politics there, and how it might lead to the collapse of Musharraf’s government and the chance of a radical Islamist element taking its place. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[/quote]

Yes this is all true, but what do we care who rules Pakistan? Because the person that rules Pakistan rules Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.

Please Mike, please. I know you are a smart guy, I respect your intelligence, please stop insulting mine.

[/quote]

No one's insulting your intelligence but you. You simply prove again you don’t understand the asymmetrical war we’re in.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 We don't want to see Musharriff's government fall and an Islamic one take its place because Al Qaeda would then have an entire nation to use as a training base. The fact that Pakistan has nukes is secondary, it’s doubtful they have the missiles to get them here AND, unlike Al Qaeda, even an Islamic government of Pakistan might care about having its population vaporized. [/QUOTE]

Reply:

Not to mention, you just kneecapped the entire justification for "Pre- Emptive War"

If Radical Islamists aren't going to use nuclears on the US because they know that the consequence is glassification, then why wouldn't Saddam have known the same damned thing?

Because he figured we wouldn't bomb oil fields?

[quote=Dust Bunny]

If Radical Islamists aren't going to use nuclears on the US because they know that the consequence is glassification

They know no such thing.  They don't care about it either.

[/quote]

What am I supposed to do Mikebutler222, forget everything yousaid in the post before when I read the next one?

You said that the fear was that "Radical Islamists" might take over Pakistan. Earlier you had said that :

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy]

Blame Islam? Blaming Islam is like blaming the car for the crash. [/quote]

No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />

Failing to recognize what motivates them, even though they’ve told you many, many times, just so you can overlay the Left’s standard argument that essentially says that the terrorists simply share their (the Left’s) dismay with US foreign policy, it’s just that they’re (the terrorists) violent about it, is tedious. It pretends that the terrorists share your view of the world and that if we only followed policies the Left has espoused forever, we could reach common ground and peaceful coexistence with the Jihadies. No doubt they’d chuckle of that one as they cut off your head. It’s like a death pact of some sort.

 [/quote]

So you see, it is not misattribution at all. It's you "moving the goal posts".

I guess you can say that there is a difference in "extremists" and "Radicals". But that would be extremely and radically silly. Especially from a guy who equates the motivations of the general with the motivations of the footsoldier.

Bond Dufus

You just want to play the race card on everything, don't you.  If I don't like bond traders, I must be racist.  If I don't like people who are a dufus, I must be racist.

I think what you are forgetting is that there are Muslims here in the USA who belief thst our form of government is wrong and who want their cult (do some research on the meanoing of cult) to replace our form of government.  Our constitution allows for the free practice of religion, but not for the free practice of overthrowing our government. Dust Bnny is correct when she says that we ignore these folks and their agenda to our own peril.

Just go to an Islamic country and espouse some of the actions our precious liberals believe to be ok: free sex, (even with the opposite sex), freedom to say and do what ever you feel like doing, because it is after all your right, and let's see how long you live.  They don't accept the things you believe are your rights. 

I would say you're a whack job for actually trusting these people, because trust is what got us into the position we are in.  We trusted the people we let into out country on visas who then murdered innocent Americans.  We trust the people who come across our borders illegally and yet kill many more Americans each year than have been killed in the entire Iraq war.

BG...go ahead and trust them, and when we see your head on a platter, we'll know what your trust got you.

Yes there are some typos, but when you type when yous pissed off, you make typos, and Bond Guy, you piss me off.  Especially since I served for 25 years to keep you pansy A$$ safe to spew the crap you spew.  Man, I should have said, I'm serving to protect everyone except the pansies like Obama, Clinton, Reid, and Bond Guy!!

If you want to trust all of your Muslim neighbors then move to the sand box with them!!

Ok lets review... You spent 25 years not using your brains. Back in the late 70's early 80's the people who joined the military were people who hadn't used their brains in high school and or before...<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Then you joined Jones (we don't know how much time was spent in between the military and Jones), Not the mark of a true champion. And now you post drivel under the name "FreeFromJones" so I guess you're with LPL.

And just one more thing, over those 25 years, just when were you "defending our freedom", when you were in Germany drinking beer and watching the wall grow moss? When you were in Korea banging "house girls"? Maybe when you went to Grenada to protect soon to be defendents in Malpractice suits. Perhaps it was when we invaded that superpower Panama? Maybe you were there in Vietnam, do you think that we have forgotten that VN was a total waste of time money and materiel not to mention the millions of lives, and for what? To halt the "Domino Effect"? The one that never happened? (Before you go off on it, it is only conjecture that the effort in VN made the communists reconsider their expansion plans.)

Here's a little tidbit for you. There are Christian radicalist extremists that are already IN this country and they want to topple the government and replace it with their brand of theocracy. Are you going to be just as mad at them as you are at the rest of the world that doesn't agree with your brainwashed perceptions?

Maybe it's just my age, but, in my lifetime, very few of the people that I have known that joined or were joined to the military did so out of a sense of Patriotism (not none, few). There were many who joined so as not to be drafted (these people, who joined non frontline positions such as the Navy) and then, during the peace years (after the Vietnam war till Desert Storm) did so because the military was an "employer of last resort". So you'll have to forgive me if my impression of the people in the military isn't quite as red white and blue as you might like it to be.

Further, the people that I have known to come out of the military have a sense of patriotism that ignores it's own inconsistencies with a fervor that surpasses most religious fervors (regardless of how they went in). It's as if they are trying so hard to convince themselves that it comes spilling out on the rest of us. It is absolutely known that the fabric of a military is antithetical to a democracy. Everybody knows this (that knows anything) and everybody has known this since long before "democracy' existed. Plato's The Republic is about this fact for crying out loud! So to listen to some "Ex-Military" man yak at me about "Patriotism, and Rights, and Freedoms and motherhood and apple pie" is like taking sex tips from a Shaker! 

I particularly remember the guy who was a part owner of a Bible Book Store, young guy, ex military (reservist for the pension benes) and he actually said to me that the Arabs had added nothing to humanity in it's entire history. He believed this, with the same surety that Xtians believe that Dinosaur fossils are inconclusive "proof" that there was anything here before "The Garden Of Eden". I don't have to tell you what the Arabs have added to humanity, do I?

So you'll have to forgive me if my impression of the people in the military isn't quite as red white and blue as you might like it to be.

Not to worry, nothing about you comes across as red white and blue.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer] So you see, it is not misattribution at all. It’s you “moving the goal posts”.

[/quote]

You're an unrepentant fool, Whom, and that’s what make conversing with you on almost any subject a waste of time. You’ve have to be either completely brain-dead or so lacking in personal integrity that you insist on playing one to continue this charade, and all just so you don’t have to correct yourself.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

There’s no contradiction, it’s the key to asymmetrical warfare, which you continue to either not grasp or refuse to admit. Governments, even ones of radical Islamists, can be expected to care about their land and population (expected, not guaranteed, thus the concerns about <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Iran with nukes) . Terrorists don’t have either, and furthermore, can be expected to worry less even about personal safety, as they value martyrdom.

This means that terrorists aren’t intimidated when you promise to drop bombs on some country should the US be hit by a dirty bomb or some such WMD. They don’t have a country. Governments, otoh, even radical Islamists, can be expected to be intimidated at least enough to make sure that if they assist terrorists acquire WMD their own fingerprints  aren’t obvious.  That intimidation factor assumes that they believe we have the will to actually follow through on threats.

The Soviet Union believed us, bin Laden, otoh, has been making the case throughout the Muslim world that we don’t have the will to do that, in fact we don’t even have the will to wage conventional warfare beyond the point that we begin to take even relatively minor casualties. He points to Beirut, Somalia and even to Iraq when he talks about the “paper tiger” that is the US. He uses that “weak horse” metaphor in his recruiting. You may have heard something about this, it’s been in all the papers.

Then again, given your hyper-partisan state of mind, your belief that the threat of terrorism is overblown, that Bush is just using “fear” for political gain, perhaps you’re not rational enough to actually study Al Qaeda, bin Laden and the various writings and action they’ve produced. As for me, I saw the hole where the WTC used to be, I need no further convincing.

WhomS**T for Brains,

You have a great opinion of those who have served to protect your sorry excuse for human flesh.  So you just called all the folks in the military brainless drones, so you fit right in there with the Harry Reids and the John Kerrys who also believe the same. Sounds like you have smoked too much dope and now you spew drivel about knowing so much on how the country should be run and that every decision made by the administration has been wrong and that if we'll just not do anything to make the poor Islamists mad then they'll leave us alone and we'll all get along.  You, my misfortunate American, are so naive and so stupid. 

You obviously don't know alot of people who have joined the military.  Nearly everyone whom I met in my 25 years served beecause of his/her desire to live in a free country and to protect those rights for even nose dribble like you.  Even if someone joins for other reasons, they soon realize the importance of the decisoin they've made.

Along the same lines of listening to a retired military person (you're never an ex-military person) makes me think that listening to you telling us how to deal with the Muslims is like taking political advice from Obama.  So enjoy your freedoms and when the mullahs are running the world and you need assylum or protection because they are about to cut you into pieces, don't ask a military man or woman to save you, because we will rememebr!!!

[quote=BondGuy]

DB, this shows just how far out on the racist limb you now find yourself. [/quote]

You know, Bondguy, unlike Whom, I respect you and often find you a valuable member of this forum on many, many issues. On this one, however, your hyper-partisanship has caused you to go way over the line and to start waving the race card, all because you refuse to believe that Al Qaeda has a religious agenda, and all that because you want to see him as just another, aggrieved party, a victim of rough US foreign policy.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I don’t agree with DB on every element of this issue. I do believe the silence and/or qualified, conditional statements so often made by non-terrorist Muslim leaders casts them in a very bad light, but I wouldn’t go as far as she has. I’d love to hear a flat, no-excuses, no-caveat denouncement of all aspects of terrorism from mainstream Muslim leaders, but such comments are few and far between, and it’s an absolute shame.

Having said that, I can disagree with DB about it, and you should be able to as well, without trotting out the tired race card.  

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Ok lets review... You spent 25 years not using your brains. Back in the late 70's early 80's the people who joined the military were people who hadn't used their brains in high school and or before...[/quote]

To call you a horse's ass is to offend horse's asses...

"Even if someone joins for other reasons, they soon realize the importance of the decisoin they've made."

That's called brainwashing.

Patty Hearst, came to understand the righteousness of the Symbianese(?) Liberation Army after she was joined to it too.

Brainless drones is what the military wants you to be. If you stop and think about where you're going and what you're doing, you'd have to be crazy to do it (try reading Catch 22 on this subject). 

Mikebutler222,

"Terrorists don’t have either, and furthermore, can be expected to worry less even about personal safety, as they value martyrdom."

The point here Mikebutler222, is that you are the one who said the extremist Islamists are a threat to our existence by virtue of their religious fervency, and then you are the one who said that there is a real possibility that extremist Islamists might take control of Pakistan if the Musharif government topples. And then you are the one who contradicts yourself by saying that the Extermist Islamists as a govenrment would use nukes because all of a sudden they are concerned for the safety of their population.

You mean like the Taliban was, right?

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Symmetrically or ASS- a-metrically or both.

"...  intimidated at least enough to make sure that if they assist terrorists acquire WMD their own fingerprints  aren’t obvious"

There you go, insulting our military intelligence agencies again! Funny how they go from being flawless to flawed to flawless to flawed depending on which poll you want be in concert with.

"As for me, I saw the hole where the WTC used to be, I need no further convincing."

Your mind's made up don't confuse you with the facts.

Fact is that the attack on the World Trade Towers did not significantly change the economy of the United States. Was it a terrible thing? Yes. Was it a wake up call to this administration? Yes. Did it deserve swift and certain retaliation and retribution? Yes. Have we meted out either? Yes, Swift. Certain? No. Retribution? No. Retaliation? No.

Take your asymmetrical war excuses and cram them up your ass (at least then you will have had to take your head out of it). Asymmetricality is simply the latest reason for our failure to achieve our objective.

Yes I know the concept has been around for centuries. It can be said that it is what lead to our victories in the American Revolution. But that fact just goes to show how weak our military leadership is that they have yet to come up with a strategy to defeat it. Certainly, what we are doing is not working. 

Let me ask you this straight out. Do you believe that terrorists can defeat this nation?

[quote=FreeFromJones]

Yes there are some typos, but when you type when yous pissed off, you make typos, and Bond Guy, you piss me off.  Especially since I served for 25 years to keep you pansy A$$ safe to spew the crap you spew.  Man, I should have said, I'm serving to protect everyone except the pansies like Obama, Clinton, Reid, and Bond Guy!!

If you want to trust all of your Muslim neighbors then move to the sand box with them!!

[/quote]

Where to start with this guy?

Ok, well, first, when you say move to the sand box with my Muslim neighbors, you do realize that's a racist statement? Yet, I would bet you don't view yourself as a racist? Rent a copy  of Mississippi Burning and get back to me.

As for my Muslim neighbors, they live in an upper middle class neighborhood, work as professionals, mostly engineers, pay taxes and are American Citizens. Except for making more money than you do, and  living in a better neighborhood than you, they are no different from you. Well they are mostly like you, they're not right wing bigots.

And here's something that should really get your blood boiling, they are building a new Mosque about a mile from my house. Whew, the plotting that will go on there huh?

The 9/11 terrorist hold the record for killing the most amercans in a terrorist act. Do you know who held that dubious record before 9/11. Timothy McVeigh. White boy american. Yet no outcry to string up white trash?

You espouse jihadist hysteria, yet the Christian Identity Movement doesn't get a nod from you? You aren't worried about the white supremist in your own church? Yet, the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim. That about cover it?

I assume your reference above is to suppose to show me you served in the military. If you did so with your narrow minded thinking you were a disgrace not only to the uniform you wore but to the flag you served. You obviously have no idea what that flag means nor what it stands for.

Our founding fathers signed and gave their blood to a constitution that would guarantee life free from religious persecution. You've probably heard of the Constitution. If not, look it up. The signers of this founding document didn't give their blood so that the low thinkers such as yourself could come along and undo it. And there is no doubt in my mind that if you could undo it you would.

As for the terrorist threat? I'm all for hunting and  killing terrorist. I wish my government would do that.

[quote=FreeFromJones]

WhomS**T for Brains,

That's MR. WHOMS**TFORBRAINS to you!

You have a great opinion of those who have served to protect your sorry excuse for human flesh. I asked what exactly you did for those 25years I paid your salary. It's not like you did anything for free. It seems to me the motto of the serviceman is "Never volunteer for anything!"   So you just called all the folks in the military brainless drones, so you fit right in there with the Harry Reids and the John Kerrys who also believe the same. Sounds like you have smoked too much dope Me thinks thou dost protest too loud! The military has been a den of druggedness for quite some long time. And that doesn't even include alcohol! and now you spew drivel about knowing so much on how the country should be run and that every decision made by the administration has been wrong and that if we'll just not do anything to make the poor Islamists mad then they'll leave us alone and we'll all get along. So what you're saying is that you can't dispute what I'm saying so you'll just resort to hollow shouting and name calling. And then you'll wonder why I have so little respect for people who start out by boasting about their military service. Service is like wealth, if you have to boast about it, you really don't have it. You, my misfortunate American, are so naive and so stupid. 

You obviously don't know alot of people who have joined the military.  Nearly everyone whom I met in my 25 years served beecause of his/her desire to live in a free country and to protect those rights for even nose dribble like you. And yet they gave up all of those rights that they are supposedly protecting in order to join the military. Do military men have the same rights as civilians in terms of military law? No, they do not. Do they have the same freedom of movement that civilians have? No they do not. Do they have the same recourse that civilians have for work related injustices (including harassment, injury, overtime, etc etc)? No. Do they have the same rights to free speech that civilians do? No.  The point is that you lived in a world that did not allow you freedom, and now you want to tell me about freedom. This is no different than someone from Jones telling you that it is the greatest investment house on the Street. Can you see that? Even if someone joins for other reasons, they soon realize the importance of the decisoin they've made.

Along the same lines of listening to a retired military person (you're never an ex-military person) makes me think that listening to you telling us how to deal with the Muslims is like taking political advice from Obama Do you Osama? Or are you referring to Barak Obama? Because taking politcal advice from a politician is not a good example of "bad advice". I didn't tell you how to deal with Muslims. I did say that we have had an atrocious foreign policy over the decades, but that is not restricted to Muslims.   So enjoy your freedoms and when the mullahs are running the world and you need assylum or protection because they are about to cut you into pieces, don't ask a military man or woman to save you, because we will rememebr!!! But you'll forget the fact that I paid for your lazy ass to loaf it out in the peacetime military while the rest of us were out here slogging it out in the real world.

Let me ask you this, if terrorism and the Muslim threat is SO big, then why haven't we instituted a draft?

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=BondGuy]

DB, this shows just how far out on the racist limb you now find yourself. [/quote]

You know, Bondguy, unlike Whom, I respect you and often find you a valuable member of this forum on many, many issues. On this one, however, your hyper-partisanship has caused you to go way over the line and to start waving the race card, all because you refuse to believe that Al Qaeda has a religious agenda, and all that because you want to see him as just another, aggrieved party, a victim of rough US foreign policy.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I don’t agree with DB on every element of this issue. I do believe the silence and/or qualified, conditional statements so often made by non-terrorist Muslim leaders casts them in a very bad light, but I wouldn’t go as far as she has. I’d love to hear a flat, no-excuses, no-caveat denouncement of all aspects of terrorism from mainstream Muslim leaders, but such comments are few and far between, and it’s an absolute shame.

Having said that, I can disagree with DB about it, and you should be able to as well, without trotting out the tired race card.  

[/quote]

Mike, I too find you to be a valuble contributor to the board. As I do DB. Certainly I see the religious connection to the Jihadist movement. But what i also see is Jihadist hysteria. One of the founding cornerstones of our constitution is freedom from religious persecution. Yet, as one reads through this thread we find statements telling us to deport all Muslims, Hunt them, go live in the sand lot with them, don't trust them. When talking about people who are as American as you or I, who are Muslim, DB instantly connected them to 9/11. This sounds a lot like religious persecution to me. Regardless, it is hysteria run wild. This is what got blacks lynched 90 years ago. And in my book it wrong.

When you exclude one group of people you don't like what would you call it? I call it racism. And it is far from tired. There is a movement in this country to forward the thinking put forward on this board.

I'll back off from calling anyone on this board a racist. I'll do so because I think some have not fully thought out their posts and are looking at the subject myopically. However, all should be aware of the racist nature of their comments. And I leave room that some have bought into the anti Muslim movement.