Mr. Butler, a little defensive today?

There's a top 10% in any field, as to why the other 90% can't/don't achieve, well, there's the mystery. 

Very true.  This would actually have some relevance if the 10% who had CFP's were the same 10% who were the top of the field.  

I strongly believe it's because they lack the drive and ambition (and perhaps the funds) to make it happen...

This is also very true.  These people are going to fail out of the business with or without the CFP.  Unfortunately, plenty of these people are actually getting the CFP.  Some people get the CFP because they are driven to succeed and feel that it is important to get.  Others do it as an avoidance behavior.  They'd rather study then lift up the 1,000 lb telephone.

...When we’re talking about a specific advisor who has nothing but dismissive talk for the CFP and claims they haven’t done it because it isn’t worth their time, I’m convinced of it.

Dude, work on your reading comprehension.  I'm not dismissive of the CFP.  I believe that it and/or the CLU/ChFC are worthy of pursuing.  Knowledge is of extreme importance.  It is the letters after one's name that I think are of dubious importance.  It's awfully silly for you to be convinced about something about a poster whom you don't know.

Better time management and you can do all of the above. In the mean time, trying to belittle what you can't manage to get yourself to work for is what you're left with....

It's not about time management.  It's about priorities.  Call a client or study for CFP?  Calling wins out.  Spend time with my kids or study for CFP?  Kids win out.  Study for CFP or work out?  Working out wins out.  Study for CFP or relax?  Relaxing wins out.  Don't take any of this to mean that keeping up with my education in the field takes a back seat.  It doesn't.  I want the knowledge.  I don't care about the letters.   You have not heard me belittle the CFP.  You have heard me belittle people who put more emphasis on the CFP than it deserves.

Most likely it's because people who seek an advisor with that proven skill set simply don't talk to people without it. 

This is another true point.  If someone is looking in the yellow pages for a CFP, they won't find me.  Heck, if they are looking for someone who is not a CFP, they still won't find me.  I do no advertising.  My business comes from 4 sources.  1)Referrals and people I know whom I call 2)Referrals who call me 3)Cold Calling 4)Cold Walking 

Maybe your business is different and you get all sorts of clients specifically because they are looking for a CFP and they find you.  In my business, I tend to meet with all sorts of people who initially don't have any interest in meeting with me with or without letters.  "I'm all taken care of, but since Joe Smith referred you to me, you can stop by and I'll spend some time with you on Tuesday." 

As a general rule, my clients simply are not people who came to me "seeking an advisor".   My clients only know about my designations and lack of designations if they ask.  This asking is rare and gets more rare every year. 

Mike, I'm glad that the CFP you has been helpful to you.  It has helped many advisors.  I simply see little relevance to it in my practice.

In case you were wondering, and I'm sure that you are not, this is what I say on the rare occassion when someone asks if I have my CFP, "I don't have the CFP.  Instead I'm pursuing the combination CLU/ChFC from the American College.   The classes are identical to the CFP except that the CLU/ChFC has two additional courses that must be taken.  I'll be finished sometime in the next 12 months."  

Mr. Butler, a little defensive today?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Not in the least, I’m not the one trying to explain away why I can’t earn a widely recognized designation, and with a massive set of contradictory statements.

There's a top 10% in any field, as to why the other 90% can't/don't achieve, well, there's the mystery. 

Very true.  This would actually have some relevance if the 10% who had CFP's were the same 10% who were the top of the field.  

They, by and large, are.

I strongly believe it's because they lack the drive and ambition (and perhaps the funds) to make it happen...

This is also very true.  These people are going to fail out of the business with or without the CFP.  Unfortunately, plenty of these people are actually getting the CFP.  Some people get the CFP because they are driven to succeed and feel that it is important to get.  Others do it as an avoidance behavior.  They'd rather study then lift up the 1,000 lb telephone.

“Avoidance behavior”, LOL, yeah, that’s what taking the prerequisites, learning the skills and taking the exam are. Why, every CFP I know did that all on business hours….lol

...When we’re talking about a specific advisor who has nothing but dismissive talk for the CFP and claims they haven’t done it because it isn’t worth their time, I’m convinced of it.

Dude, work on your reading comprehension.  I'm not dismissive of the CFP.

You’re not dismissive, “dude”, but you can’t find a way to make it a priority and you have a thousand condescending things to say about people who’ve earned it. Yeah, that’s the ticket….

    It's awfully silly for you to be convinced about something about a poster whom you don't know.

Spare me, your dozens of posts about the “dubious importance” of the CFP says it all.

BTW, aren’t you the guy working on the CLU/ChFC? That’s a designation that’s more widely held by insurance guys, requires the same set of prerequisites (plus one or tow, IIRC) but has the “feature” that you don’t have to pass a capstone exam to get it? Hmmm?

Better time management and you can do all of the above. In the mean time, trying to belittle what you can't manage to get yourself to work for is what you're left with....

It's not about time management.  It's about priorities. 

Better time management gives you time for more priorities…

Call a client or study for CFP?  Calling wins out. 

You always bring this kind or false choice up as if anyone preps for the designation and learns the skills when he/she could be doing business. That’s just defensive posturing.

Spend time with my kids or study for CFP?  Kids win out. 

Same here. I would guess your kids go to bed at some point, study then. In fact, all your reasons why you can’t/won’t find time for the CFP apply to why you can’t/won’t find time to expand your skill set. You claim learning new skills is a priority for you, but somehow earning the CFP, which IS learning news skills and then verifying your ability to use them isn’t a priority. You’re contradicting yourself, and it’s obvious why.

Don't take any of this to mean that keeping up with my education in the field takes a back seat.  It doesn't.  I want the knowledge.  I don't care about the letters.  

So you say, but as I said above, the “Letters” takes no more time than “keeping up” with your education and then verifying that you actually can use the tools. You’re contradicting yourself.

Most likely it's because people who seek an advisor with that proven skill set simply don't talk to people without it. 

This is another true point.  If someone is looking in the yellow pages for a CFP, they won't find me. 

That’s not the only way that people who seek someone with a proven level of skills won’t find you, they simply won’t do business with you if you lack it. They won’t use you, refer you to others or accept a referral of you. You can tell yourself it’s just the phone book if you like. 

My business comes from 4 sources.  1)Referrals and people I know whom I call 2)Referrals who call me 3)Cold Calling 4)Cold Walking 

I feel your pain on the last two.

 In my business, I tend to meet with all sorts of people who initially don't have any interest in meeting with me with or without letters.  "I'm all taken care of, but since Joe Smith referred you to me, you can stop by and I'll spend some time with you on Tuesday." 

See above; there is an entire set of "Joe Smiths" who won't use you or refer you to others, or take a referral of you because you lack some evidence of professional skills.

Mike, I'm glad that the CFP you has been helpful to you.  It has helped many advisors.  I simply see little relevance to it in my practice.

 That’s an excuse. See above about your “keeping up” with your education. That’s all it is.

In case you were wondering, and I'm sure that you are not, this is what I say on the rare occassion when someone asks if I have my CFP, "I don't have the CFP.  Instead I'm pursuing the combination CLU/ChFC from the <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />American College.   The classes are identical to the CFP except that the CLU/ChFC has two additional courses that must be taken.  I'll be finished sometime in the next 12 months."  

Ahh, as I mentioned I above, I recall you saying this before.

 It’s pretty obvious the reason you’re going this route is you don’t want to face the capstone exam. All the “priorities” stuff, the "it doesn't apply to my business" stuff is an excuse, since you are finding time to do the prerequisites already.  And since you don't want to face the exam, you've prepared an elaborate list of excuses.

The problem is the American College prerequisites are a joke. I know this because I’ve taken them, and I doubt the pass rate of the exam for people who do nothing more than the American College material is well under 50%..

Rather it should read “I doubt the pass rate for people using only the American Coillege material is OVER 40%”.

You win.  I guess that I'll never make it to the top 10% of the profession without those letters.  Oops, wait a second. I'm already there.  I guess I just have been getting lucky.  I'm glad that it's helped you.

P.S. You are 100% correct that I don't want to take the exam.    I have no doubt that I could pass the exam.  I also have no doubt that I would have to study my ass off to pass the exam, so I guess that  it's more accurate to say that I don't want to put in the time to study for the exam.  I'm simply failing to see the value in it (meaning the letters, not the knowledge) especially when I'll have my CLU/ChFC. 

Real world financial planning is open book.  Sometimes I run into a situation where I don't know the answers to what I have to do to help the client.  When I don't know an answer, I find that, "Mr. Client, I don't know the best way to approach this situation so let me get an expert to help us with this" works very well.

It seems to me that the advantage of the CFP is the marketing advantage, and quite frankly, I don't see much of an advantage in this especially when it's getting compared to the CLU/ChFC.  The argument of one having a final exam and one doesn't, doesn't seem to hold much water. 

2 people take calculus classes at different schools.  One professor gives lots of tests and quizzes, but no final exams.  The other professor only has a final exam.  It doesn't matter which school someone went to, a "B" is a "B". 

CFP has less classes and a final exam.  CLU/ChFC has more classes and no final exams.  Who is the best planner...the one with the CLU/ChFC or the one with the CFP or the one with nothing?  Answer: The one who helps the most clients.

Again, I'm very happy that the CFP has been helpful to your practice.

OK, guys...take a break.  I think we can all agee that there are two sides to the story here and I for one, respect both sides and don't want to see this escalate into a counterproductive food fight.  Mike, I too see the benefits and am doggoned glad to have the credential as I feel it is definitely something that can separate an advisor from the crowd.

Anon, I respect the civil tone and understand that you choose to prioritize differently.  The same could be said of me when it comes to obtaining an MBA or CFA.  In my mind, the costs outweigh the benefits at this stage in my career and I'm well satisfied to take a pass on any additional education.

Peace, brothers...

[quote=Indyone]

OK, guys…take a break.  I think we can all agee that there are two sides to the story here and I for one, respect both sides and don’t want to see this escalate into a counterproductive food fight.  Mike, I too see the benefits and am doggoned glad to have the credential as I feel it is definitely something that can separate an advisor from the crowd.

Anon, I respect the civil tone and understand that you choose to prioritize differently.  The same could be said of me when it comes to obtaining an MBA or CFA.  In my mind, the costs outweigh the benefits at this stage in my career and I'm well satisfied to take a pass on any additional education.

Peace, brothers...

I'm happy to end it with this post...

[quote=anonymous]

P.S. You are 100% correct that I don't want to take the exam.    I have no doubt that I could pass the exam.  I also have no doubt that I would have to study my ass off to pass the exam, so I guess that  it's more accurate to say that I don't want to put in the time to study for the exam.  [/quote]

Bingo....all the other excuses were contradictory...

[quote=anonymous]It seems to me that the advantage of the CFP is the marketing advantage, and quite frankly, I don't see much of an advantage in this especially when it's getting compared to the CLU/ChFC.  The argument of one having a final exam and one doesn't, doesn't seem to hold much water.  [/quote]

CLU/ChFC markets every bit as much as the CFP people do, so I doubt that's an advantage. I suppose not being associated so heavily with insurnace guys is an advantge for the CFP.

Having seen the American College material, knowing the failure rate of the exam, it seems to me to mean a great deal. A drunk could get past the A.C. material and never, never prove that he's mastered anything. A capstone exam proves he has, and thus the 50% failure rate.

I took the CFA tests and passed. For fun!

Of course, it hasn't made me a nickle, directly, but the it has paid for itself in more subtle ways: self-confidence, increased knowledge, peer respect, etc.

But I did it for fun, as a personal challenge. Besides, I have a 45-min train ride twice a day, so I had the time.

[quote=Sailor25]

I took the CFA tests and passed. For fun!

[/quote]

That's pretty impressive.

Mr. Butler, I'm surprised that you haven't started on your CFA.  Don't you want to be in the 1% of financial advisors who have this?  Just work a little more on your time management skills and you can do it!  Good luck.

Sailor, congrats.  This is a big accomplishment.

[quote=mikebutler222]

I'm happy to end it with this post...

[quote=anonymous]

P.S. You are 100% correct that I don't want to take the exam.    I have no doubt that I could pass the exam.  I also have no doubt that I would have to study my ass off to pass the exam, so I guess that  it's more accurate to say that I don't want to put in the time to study for the exam.  [/quote]

Bingo....all the other excuses were contradictory...

[quote=anonymous]It seems to me that the advantage of the CFP is the marketing advantage, and quite frankly, I don't see much of an advantage in this especially when it's getting compared to the CLU/ChFC.  The argument of one having a final exam and one doesn't, doesn't seem to hold much water.  [/quote]

CLU/ChFC markets every bit as much as the CFP people do, so I doubt that's an advantage. I suppose not being associated so heavily with insurnace guys is an advantge for the CFP.

Having seen the American College material, knowing the failure rate of the exam, it seems to me to mean a great deal. A drunk could get past the A.C. material and never, never prove that he's mastered anything. A capstone exam proves he has, and thus the 50% failure rate.

[quote=anonymous]

Mr. Butler, I'm surprised that you haven't started on your CFA.  [/quote]

Perhaps when I'm done with my CIMA program...

The CIMA program at Morgan Stanley? WOW! Is that the one where you get to go to "Wharton" for a weekend? I know someone who took that for the fun of it, passed, and still solicits IPO's within Choice Accounts at MS. "Hey, how much Personal Portfolio would you like to buy today?"

Sounds more like the CHURN than the CIMA.

Go get 'em MB222!

[quote=$ N the Bank]

The CIMA program at Morgan Stanley? WOW! Is that the one where you get to go to "Wharton" for a weekend? [/quote]

Yes, "Wharton", it's a week, and IIRC, it is regardless of the firm you're with.

[quote=$ N the Bank]

I know someone who took that for the fun of it, passed, and still solicits IPO's within Choice Accounts at MS. [/quote]

Is there something wrong with that? IPOs are excluded from the choice fee base.

[quote=$ N the Bank]

"Hey, how much Personal Portfolio would you like to buy today?" [/quote]

I can't say that I understand that one. The PPA is an account that, with a single account number you can combine ETFs, SMAs, alternative investments or fund with an asset allocation model set by the FA. Sounds like sour grapes from your end, pal.

[quote=$ N the Bank]Sounds more like the CHURN than the CIMA.[/quote]

How so?