[quote=cranky sobI've been at it for 7 years and have made about $3,000,000. [/quote]

Let's do the math:

3,000,000, divided by 10% commission, divided by 7 years = 4.286 million/year in assets.  WOW - you are some salesman. 

[quote=lawsucks]

[quote=cranky sobI've been at it for 7 years and have made about $3,000,000. [/quote]

Let's do the math:

3,000,000, divided by 10% commission, divided by 7 years = 4.286 million/year in assets.  WOW - you are some salesman. 

[/quote]

Most of that money was made by selling VA's with a 7.5% commission.  The first few years were at a 45% payout and the last few were at a 90% payout. How much is that per year, in assets?

Posted the same info twice.  I really got under your skin with that one, didn't I, topgun. 

cranky sob, how about making some racist comments so that we’ll know that we got our buddy Dirk Diggler back on board

[quote=lawsucks]

Posted the same info twice.  I really got under your skin with that one, didn't I, topgun. 

[/quote]

I think I'll be ok.

[quote=cranky sob][quote=STL Indy]

[quote=anonymous]I don't know of a single EIA that has a 3% lifetime guarantee.  Which one caps gains at 7%?  Do you have a specific example?[/quote]

http://www.ingvfc.com/cyberlink/ing/forms_ingva/fixed_rates/ new/124375.pdf

ING Secure Index 7

-3% min. guarantee on 100% of the money.

-only a 0.55% spread on $75k+ policies, when using the monthly averaging index strategy (the only one I'd put a client into).  It has no caps, no other moving parts.  Right now, this is the only EIA I'd sell with a good conscience.  Even it's fixed bucket gives a good rate (4.5%) which is better than most traditional fixed annuities I'm seeing out there.  For the client that can't make the jump from CD's and FDIC insured investments to VA's, mutual funds and other securities... the ING Secure Index product is a good bridge product to get them going that direction. 

[/quote]

What's the commish?

[/quote]

It pays 5%.  Lower than most VA's, and way lower than many crappy EIA's that are out there (ie. pretty much anything from American Equity or Allianz).

If the client wants a premium bonus (5%) and is okay with extending the surrender schedule out to 10yrs to get it (from the standard 7), it then pays 8.5% commish.  However, by getting the 5% bonus up front, they also pay with a slightly higher spread in that product (0.95%).

Personally, I'd rather sell them the standard one and make a lower commision on it.  It makes it much harder to beat up post-sale since the commission is around what most mutual funds pay (and it doesn't come out of their investment either) and a little less than many of the leading VA's on the market.

[quote=STL Indy][quote=cranky sob][quote=STL Indy]

[quote=anonymous]I don't know of a single EIA that has a 3% lifetime guarantee.  Which one caps gains at 7%?  Do you have a specific example?[/quote]

http://www.ingvfc.com/cyberlink/ing/forms_ingva/fixed_rates/ new/124375.pdf

ING Secure Index 7

-3% min. guarantee on 100% of the money.

-only a 0.55% spread on $75k+ policies, when using the monthly averaging index strategy (the only one I'd put a client into).  It has no caps, no other moving parts.  Right now, this is the only EIA I'd sell with a good conscience.  Even it's fixed bucket gives a good rate (4.5%) which is better than most traditional fixed annuities I'm seeing out there.  For the client that can't make the jump from CD's and FDIC insured investments to VA's, mutual funds and other securities... the ING Secure Index product is a good bridge product to get them going that direction. 

[/quote]

What's the commish?

[/quote]

It pays 5%.  Lower than most VA's, and way lower than many crappy EIA's that are out there (ie. pretty much anything from American Equity or Allianz).

If the client wants a premium bonus (5%) and is okay with extending the surrender schedule out to 10yrs to get it (from the standard 7), it then pays 8.5% commish.  However, by getting the 5% bonus up front, they also pay with a slightly higher spread in that product (0.95%).

Personally, I'd rather sell them the standard one and make a lower commision on it.  It makes it much harder to beat up post-sale since the commission is around what most mutual funds pay (and it doesn't come out of their investment either) and a little less than many of the leading VA's on the market.

[/quote]

5% on a 7 year product? Ouch. Count me out.

[quote=cranky sob][quote=STL Indy][quote=cranky sob][quote=STL Indy]

[quote=anonymous]I don't know of a single EIA that has a 3% lifetime guarantee.  Which one caps gains at 7%?  Do you have a specific example?[/quote]

http://www.ingvfc.com/cyberlink/ing/forms_ingva/fixed_rates/ new/124375.pdf

ING Secure Index 7

-3% min. guarantee on 100% of the money.

-only a 0.55% spread on $75k+ policies, when using the monthly averaging index strategy (the only one I'd put a client into).  It has no caps, no other moving parts.  Right now, this is the only EIA I'd sell with a good conscience.  Even it's fixed bucket gives a good rate (4.5%) which is better than most traditional fixed annuities I'm seeing out there.  For the client that can't make the jump from CD's and FDIC insured investments to VA's, mutual funds and other securities... the ING Secure Index product is a good bridge product to get them going that direction. 

[/quote]

What's the commish?

[/quote]

It pays 5%.  Lower than most VA's, and way lower than many crappy EIA's that are out there (ie. pretty much anything from American Equity or Allianz).

If the client wants a premium bonus (5%) and is okay with extending the surrender schedule out to 10yrs to get it (from the standard 7), it then pays 8.5% commish.  However, by getting the 5% bonus up front, they also pay with a slightly higher spread in that product (0.95%).

Personally, I'd rather sell them the standard one and make a lower commision on it.  It makes it much harder to beat up post-sale since the commission is around what most mutual funds pay (and it doesn't come out of their investment either) and a little less than many of the leading VA's on the market.

[/quote]

5% on a 7 year product? Ouch. Count me out.

[/quote]

Thanks thinking of the client first. 

5% isn't bad when there's no grid to run through.  Better than a 7.5% VA of the same length product that then runs through a BD's payout grid (unless you're an Indy and have a higher grid, then it's closer to the same payout level).

[quote=STL Indy][quote=cranky sob][quote=STL Indy][quote=cranky sob][quote=STL Indy]

[quote=anonymous]I don't know of a single EIA that has a 3% lifetime guarantee.  Which one caps gains at 7%?  Do you have a specific example?[/quote]

http://www.ingvfc.com/cyberlink/ing/forms_ingva/fixed_rates/ new/124375.pdf

ING Secure Index 7

-3% min. guarantee on 100% of the money.

-only a 0.55% spread on $75k+ policies, when using the monthly averaging index strategy (the only one I'd put a client into).  It has no caps, no other moving parts.  Right now, this is the only EIA I'd sell with a good conscience.  Even it's fixed bucket gives a good rate (4.5%) which is better than most traditional fixed annuities I'm seeing out there.  For the client that can't make the jump from CD's and FDIC insured investments to VA's, mutual funds and other securities... the ING Secure Index product is a good bridge product to get them going that direction. 

[/quote]

What's the commish?

[/quote]

It pays 5%.  Lower than most VA's, and way lower than many crappy EIA's that are out there (ie. pretty much anything from American Equity or Allianz).

If the client wants a premium bonus (5%) and is okay with extending the surrender schedule out to 10yrs to get it (from the standard 7), it then pays 8.5% commish.  However, by getting the 5% bonus up front, they also pay with a slightly higher spread in that product (0.95%).

Personally, I'd rather sell them the standard one and make a lower commision on it.  It makes it much harder to beat up post-sale since the commission is around what most mutual funds pay (and it doesn't come out of their investment either) and a little less than many of the leading VA's on the market.

[/quote]

5% on a 7 year product? Ouch. Count me out.

[/quote]

Thanks thinking of the client first. 

5% isn't bad when there's no grid to run through.  Better than a 7.5% VA of the same length product that then runs through a BD's payout grid (unless you're an Indy and have a higher grid, then it's closer to the same payout level).

[/quote]

I'm a party to the transaction. Don't ALL parties have to be happy? If not, the transaction shouldn't take place. You react more than you think and you don't hide it very well.

Sure, I sometimes pick one product over another based on the commission that I’ll make.  However, it’s usually when there are similar products available and one isn’t that much different than the other.

Annuitties are bad, bad, sleazy and how can you sleep at night. Did you read parade article last week. Does it pass the Grandma test? Mr. Wiggles disapproves, shame on all of you.

He does.  He called me and told me.

I’ve read through this entire discussion of EIAs and would like to offer a few thoughts:  crankysob:
you act like it requires WORK to maintain an EIA for seven years, as if
the annual strategy decision requires a ph.d. to figure out.  you
visit the issue ONCE a year–you have to work harder for  CE than
that.

whoever talked about the ING mo avg crediting strategy: do your
research and you’ll find a better crediting strategy, young
Paduan. 

[quote=FinancialWiz]whoever talked about the ING mo avg crediting strategy: do your research and you'll find a better crediting strategy, young Paduan. 
[/quote]

Uh, as I've already mentioned in this thread, I do plenty of research, and actually pay for said research.

http://mcppremium.com/

The reason for using monthly avg. with the ING Secure Index is that there is no cap, only a small spread that they skim off the top.  Other EIA's don't work that way (or as well) with their monthly avg. crediting method... I was specifically referring to the ING Secure Index (for amounts over $75k).  This specific annuity (and crediting method) has consistently been in the top tier of products ranked by this software in the past year.

BTW, I'm not a "young" Padawan, I've been in the business for over a decade.  Not to give Mitch Maynard (the guy that owns MCPPremium and writes/updates the software) a free informercial here, but I'm very pleased with his software and service.  The annual fee is a small price to pay for the amount of quality, unbiased research that it gives you.  Terrific tool if you're serious about keeping up with EIA's and wanting to give the absolute best EIA to your clients (because they're all constantly changing and updating their moving parts, or coming up with new products).  The Monte Carlo simulations/hypos and resulting reports that I print out from this software help sell/seal more deals than I can even remember.  Just getting one deal that you may not have otherwise closed because you come prepared with detailed independent research information on the EIA that you're pitching, will more than pay for the cost of the software for the next 10yrs.

If I was just a EIA cowboy, insurance agent guy only, it might be easier to keep up (or like most of them, not even care and just go straight for the high commission stuff) but with also having to wear my investment advisor and stockbroker hats as well, there's just too many other things to keep up with and I pay for EIA research software to help me do that. 

PS.  MCP Premium comes in REALLY handy when I run across a prospect that just purchased a garbage EIA (still in the free look period) from some fixed insurance guy at a seminar.

I just punch in their annuity, along with the one I would be proposing (and typically the S&P500, Dow, and 5% fixed interest as benchmarks) and have it spit out hypo's from the last 10yrs, a 10yr bull market run, and a 10yr bear market run.  Alot of times, just handing the resulting report over after I print it out makes the sale right there when they see what a piece of junk the other guy sold them compared to what they could have sold them.  Of course, I always mention the differences in commission and the real reason why they were sold that product.  THAT really gets their blood boiling to a point that the previous agent doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell at conserving the deal he just spent the commission check from.  hehe

As far as EIAs go, yeah, ING has the best available.  That’s all I
sell.  Since you seem like one of the good guys, I’d like to help
you get it straight.  If the MCP Premium software is telling you
that’s the best crediting strategy, well, at least the regulators won’t
hassle YOU for not knowing better.  Just like most advisors, it seems like you rely a little too heavily on the industry software. 
Next thing you’re going to tell me is that you use Morningstar’s Star
Rating System in your investment practice, and that standard deviation
is an adequate measure of volatility.  If you’re like 95% of the
advisors out there you’ll also tell me that their style boxes are
actually a useful tool in diversifying across asset classes.  For
that head check, see Callahan and Howard, Outside the Box. 
You see, the real lessons in this biz come from doing independent
research and not relying so much on Cramer, MCP Pro, and whatever other
quick fix tools help you stay just one step ahead of your
clients.  I took figures directly from the S&P scores on
Telechart for every month dating back to '79–hell, let’s go back to
’67–and crunched those numbers, and if you did the same you’d find
that the monthly averaging strategy is deceptively appealing, but
decidedly underperforming.  I’m not a fan of disseminating free
research, so you can go figure it out for yourself.  But hell, you
don’t even need to go that far, just sift through all the sales
literature that ING’s sent you.  They’ve got a pretty accurate
illustration hiding in one of those glossies.  You’re a good man,
you care about your clients, so go do some more research, and make your
clients proud.  

[quote=FinancialWiz]You see, the real lessons in this biz come from doing independent research and not relying so much on Cramer, MCP Pro, and whatever other quick fix tools help you stay just one step ahead of your clients.  [/quote]

MCP isn't a quick fix type of program though, I've seen plenty of those.  It's not some garbage software or spreadsheet that FMO's give you for free after handing them a few contracts.  I pay for an annual subscription and monthly updates to the service (btw, it does far more than monte carlo testing of EIA's, there are other planning tools involved with it, but being able to take a handful of EIA's and plug them into various stretches of time of the S&P and see how said EIA's would perform is golden.  My clients love it.

Anyway, as for the monthly average crediting method, I not only use it with ING's Secure Index because it performs best when doing hypo's (plug in a bear market, bull market, last 10yrs, whatever... and it always comes out ahead of their other crediting method for THAT particular EIA)... but I also like it because it's easier for the client to understand (no caps, 100% participation, etc... just a simple spread that ING skims off the top).

But yeah, I'm with you, I don't normally give out free research (especially when I'm paying for it), but felt like EIA's were getting a bad rap here and wanted to give some props to a product that actually does what it says and is a good fit for the right client (and, unlike many other EIA's, isn't produced for the agent to get rich.  It's a fair commission, not a bloated one like many of the competitor's).