Should I continue with this $1m prospect?

That statement is probably fake, and she has obvious problems that will preclude a good working relationship.



She is behaving like someone who wants to abuse your T&E budget,
not like somone who needs financial advice. Do you know people with
serious money who act like she does?



Usually doing 1on1 meetings screens out the platelickers, since most
people don’t have the balls (ovaries) to invite a personal meeting
unless they are serious. You got a chance to meet one of the few people
who will do it.


I would not have driven her to the doctors office, that’s her
problem and its not for you to get involved. Very obvious red flag,
among other signs (including the display of the statement, obviously
intended to push your buttons.) .

I think you know very well the answer to your own question, you just are hoping it isn’t so.  Hope, as we know, is no plan.

Tell her your next meeting is IN YOUR OFFICE, or no where.  Remind her you help people manage their money, and you only have initial ‘get to know you’ meetings (like your first one) outside your office.  And you certainly do not provide free portfolio recommendations to anyone who asks for them.

In other words, lay down the law of how you work and how things will be if she wants to work with you.  Then follow through, either way.  Either you will have a decent client who knows and is willing to respect your professionalism, or you will avoid wasting more time and money on someone who would not be a worthwhile client ANYWAY - even IF she has a million plus in her portfolio.  Not every prospect with a million dollars is a client you want - or should want.

And finally, once the issue with this particular prospect is resolved, resolve in your own mind what your process is and who you are willing to work with.

You’re NOT a prostitute who will do anything for money, and you do not give away your expertise, so be clear up front with prospects and clients alike EXACTLY what you willing to do.  Then stick to that, no matter how attractive a prospect.

That will both preserve your sanity AND improve your business.  People want to do business with successful, confident advisers who are not desperate.  Then watch how this change in your attitutude improves how prospects respond to you.

I agree with the above responses. However, I wouldn’t count her out

yet…if you can make the subtle change to tell her you need to get down

to business, you may be able to make it work. Just give her an allocation

(if she meets w/you in your office or some place where you stay in one

place) with no specifics…ex: 10% small growth (but not the fund/ETF

you’ll use). If this craziness of driving her around and buying multiple

meals occurred once a year or less, it may be worth the annoyance. For

the FA that already has a $100mil book, maybe not, but for those of us

still working towards that…just have to decide at some point if it is worth

the time and trouble.



But it is very true that you will be treated how you act and allow people to

treat you. Make sure any future meetings have an agenda that you both

understand will be followed. After a second meeting, I DO think you’ll be

able to tell her "this is how I do things, and I’d love to work with you if

______, _____, and ______."



By the way, I don’t think it is that bad that she didn’t talk about

investments, only herself…that means she wants YOU or someone else to

manage the $, and hopefully she’ll think you gave a damn about her.

the other problem, if this account is not an ira is capital gains. if you start selling off funds she may have owned for 20 years, that would not be good. maybe she could do a wrap account???

I also thought about the possibility that she has fake statement.  But is it possible someone would do that just to scam meals??!!  I can't imagine someone has the balls to do that....

But I do have a hunch she set the 2nd meeting to coincide with her need to go to the bank.  In San Francisco some people don't have a car and parking is a bitch.  We'll see.

I'm inclined to give it one more chance, but with a plan to cut things off.  Here is my plan:

9:30 am on Wednesday am I meet her.  She asks me to drive her to the bank.  Fine, my morning is shot anyway.

10:30 am she's done with the bank, we find a starbucks to sit down; she wants the biggest latte and whatever.  Fine, How much can she spend in Starbucks, right? 

Then I present the allocation she's asking for and see how she responds.  If she continues to dance around, drag things out, and suggests we go to lunch, that will be when I cut things off.

Does that sound like an adequate plan?

-----------------------

A separate question I have been thinking about...... If I am to cut things off at that point, what attitude should I do it with?

Should I still be as polite as possible and do it with respect? "Ms. xyz, I have to get back to office by.... and cannot do lunch.  If you want to continue this discussion you'll have to go to my office."

Should I be stern and just leave the door slightly ajar? "Ms. xyz, I'm getting the feeling that I won't be the right financial advisor for you.  I'm a professional money manager, I can't drive people around all day long.  If that's really what you are looking for, come down to my office where we can focus on money management."

Or should I tell her I know what she's up to and I don't want her as a client?

bluestar,
 Are you a very new broker who is taking any client he can get? This is the question. Even if the answer is in the affirmative, remember that YOU choose with whom you do business. My experience tells me that poorly behaved clients only get more so. This woman’s priority with you is NOT to tend to her investments.  Even if you succeed in moving all $1.2mm into new investments and score a windfall ticket(s) is it going to be worth this woman insisting on meeting you for breakfast, lunch and dinner to answer every question she has (and imagine her demands once you’ve gotten paid by her??) That being said, how desperate are you for new clients??? The ball’s in your court. No one here can call this one for you.

There’s an old joke that details a man asking a young, single woman if she’d sleep with him if he paid her $100.  Appalled, she said NO!  He persisted: how about for $10MM dollars?  She struggled with the idea but finally figured, what the heck - for that much money she’d be nuts to turn down this crazy offer - so she said yes.

The guy then asked, “OK, would you sleep with me for $1,000?” to which she replied, "hell no, what do you think I am?"

His response: "Since you were willing to sleep with me for money we know WHAT you are, the only thing we don’t know is what your PRICE is."

Really, bluestar, chauffeur people around and buy them coffee and lunch while giving away asset allocation advice all you want and  tell yourself whatever you want about being an adviser.  But your actions will speak louder than words.  In the end she’ll know exactly what you are and all that will be left to be determined is what your price is.

Re-read what I said earlier.  I did NOT say don’t give her another chance.  I said give her a chance to be a real client and come into the office.  If she won’t do that, you’re losing NOTHING but your delusions instead of your time, energy, pride and money. 

It’s up to you.  Either she’ll be trying to determine what you are, or she’ll be trying to determine what your price is.

So - what’s your price?

Since she found you through an advertisement, and not by referral from an existing client, there is an extra chance you are being scammed, even if it is just an innocent personality flaw.

Offer one more professional meeting at the office, only, for one hour, with a follow up meeting, if she wants. Call and reschedule to this arrangement, if needed, saving face by citing pressing work load concerns. If you can shape her behaviour and expectations a little, she might be a worthy client.

Deadwood and the others have given you good advice.  This woman is abusing your time and you look cheap and as if you have nothing better to do.  If she was a real prospect the fact that you are willing to be her chauffeur and grovel in front of her doesn't look good.

Stress to her that you are busy and have other client appointments and would be willing to set aside an hour of your time for a review IN YOUR OFFICE.  If she isn't willing to do this, then advise her that this is not how you do business and she should look for another advisor.

Would your doctor, lawyer, CPA, etc.. drive you around for your daily errands? Would you feel confident that they were qualified professionals if they did? Come on bluestar, have a little respect for yourself and our profession.

Offer her your time at your office. If she doesn't want to come and visit with you there, she isn't serious. Forget about her and move on. One million dollar accounts are nice; but are really just a small part of whats necessary to get a business up and running. The bay area has plenty of money, you'll find other million dollar accounts that actually want financial advise.

I still can’t decide whether to believe you ran this woman all over town.  Either your pipeline is not full and you feel the need to woo this prospect OR you are ignorant because you truly feel this is an actual prospect.  Either way, not a good situation for you.  If she won’t meet at your office, cross her off your list and move on.

Good points. And PWM, the difference is that because this is about money, clients do want a more personal relationship than with some other professionals. So the advisor need not feel unprofessional about having invested some personal time, now it's time to reel in the line and see if the hook will hold and if the fish is a keeper.

Bluestar, in my not so humble opinion, only invest personal time with good clients, through appreciation events and so on, and they will send you a lot of referrals. You have been around, what say you? The one million is probably wacky money, but be nice and see if it jumps into the boat, if you indeed want to let it jump in with you.

[quote=Quincy Teacher]

Million dollar accounts are not easy to find, in spite of what the collective wisdom of more than 39 months in the business have been saying.

The largest account I had used to routinely call and ask me to do something for him--just to see if I would do it.  He did not think less of me for having been cooperative with him, and I didn't think less of him for pushing buttons.

The question I have is why this woman doesn't have her own car?  If there is a logical reason for not having one then asking somebody who she will be hiring to shuttle her around a bit isn't that big a deal.

This is a sales business and in sales there is a saying worth remembering.  "The customer is always right."

If the customer wants you to stand on your head and whistle Dixie out of your butt you thank them for the opportunity to do something for them and comply.

I'm not saying you should do that for a $10,000 IRA rollover--but this woman is $1,200,000 at Fidelity plus who knows what else.

If the customer wants you to stand on your head and whistle Dixie out of your butt you thank them for the opportunity to do something for them and comply.

Who knows if she is whacky or could be a decent client. I have learned to invest a little time and try to learn from situations as well as gather assets. If you do a really good job with everything you touch, enough will stick over the years such that you will be doing only service and collecting the trails and referrals. There will come a day when there will be no chasing. Until then, go with your instincts, think for yourself.

The largest account I had used to routinely call and ask me to do something for him--just to see if I would do it.  He did not think less of me for having been cooperative with him, and I didn't think less of him for pushing buttons

Yes, he did think less of you and you should have thought less of him.  This is the worst advice I have ever heard.  I have good clients that I will go the extra mile for.....but I draw the line at being their go-fer and errand boy.  I'm a professional financial advisor not some flunky door man or whipping post.

The other main difference is that this is NOT a client yet or ever.

First, thank you for all your input.  Let me answer a few questions here:

1. Yes I did drive her to dr's office (shame on me).  But it was just 20 blocks away and in total a 30 min senic tour.  This request did not bother me because I do have a couple other clients of about same size acct that did this to me.  What's surprising to me is, those are CLIENTS and this woman is a PROSPECT who I met for the first time.

2. Living in SF without a car is not unique, especially for older people, since everything is rather close and parking is such a hassle.

3. I'm not new to business but I can always use an additional $1 m acct any time.  If driving her around once a month can get me this acct, I'd do it myself or send a car service.

I'm not concerned about the monetary and time investment I have to make to acquire this or any other account; I'm more concerned about the sick feeling I'd have if it turns out she is scamming me from the very beginning.

4. I agree even if she becomes a client this has potential to be a continuous headache down the road, but I figure it's too soon to make that assumption.

--------------------------------

One little detail I forgot to mention but that can be important.  At the end of our meeting she asked me to drive her home; I'm also to pick her up at her home for next meeting, so she was not afraid to let me know where she lives.  Does this detail mean anything?

Every situation is unique.

Go with your instincts and learn. Be persistant in this career, always do the right thing for the client. Respect yourself.

Let us know what happens, maybe we'll all learn something.

Ditto above…great case study in trying to read people.

I have several 1m+ accounts where the client is a little quirky. In fact, a high % of quirky clients have 1m+. Not that you want to fill your book with them, it is always about the marketing mix.

In this business, you get a shot at certain opportunites. Not all of them pan out for gold. If you don't recognize each unique opportunity, you may not accrete enough residue to pay the fixed costs and break through to profitability.

Over time, all of this needs to come in through recurring revenues, which is why you need an intelligent marketing mix - small accounts and large, conventional and quirky. At least, this is one forumula for success. There are many paths.

Bluestar, you've had coffee with this woman, taken her to lunch and acted as her driver for the day. Where has this all lead? Has she made any type of commitment to you? Do you feel that you have used your precious time wisely?

Being nice is great but you need to also be viewed as a true professional in what you do. All good relationships are built on mutual respect and without it you will have a miserable future with this client. Earn her respect by being the best adviser possible, not by being her servant. Otherwise when the market plummets, an investment choice goes south, etc.. you will be forever be in the position of trying to justify your value and expertise.

If someone has a legitimate reason for not coming to your office (medical problem, etc) then fine; otherwise she has no reason not to come in. This isn't a power play on your part; it's because you are busy and have other clients that need you. You need to explain that you're there for your clients just as she would want you available for her if she becomes a client (and you decide to accept her). Best of luck on this; I've been through similiar situations and more often than not they were a waste of time.

Telling a prospect that you don’t have time for them is not a way to win their business.

To the original poster.... If you were asked to drop someone off somewhere, after a meeting, and that somewhere was on your way to wherever you were going, ok, I could see that.

Otherwise, you and your prospect need to decide whether you are being hired/interviewed/whatever, as a Financial Advisor, or a Personal Concierge.

I understand the pull of a potential million dollar client as well as anyone, but you really need to be smart about it. Dont get into a relationship that so obviously will render you subservient. Thats what this is all about.

This is pimping for new business as we say at amp.  You should have a certain way of doing business and this shouldn't be one of them: at the mercy of the clients.

At the get go, you should have said, "excuse me, I have other client meetings and we'll have to meet at a more convenient time.  Give me a call when you have more time to discuss your finances.  May I call you a cab?  Have a nice afternoon."

It would be interesting to see the response if you simply told her you can’t give her an “asset allocation” without knowing her entire financial picture (which you know you can’t, anyway), that you’d also need to see copies of her last two years’ of tax returns, and then went into a “how is your health” conversation. If she lives in SF and owns her own place, AND has $1mm in taxable account, AND money is coming from somewhere else, she has an estate planning issue. The next step would be some preliminary life insurance qualifiers - getting her to sign some forms! That would be her “tell” - she’ll either see you as something other than a stock jockey or not. Can you charge fees?

How about the French Laundry, Julie’s Kitchen and Fresco lunch with tour at Robert Mondavi’s.  Wine tasting at Coppola’s…mud bath and massage at Calistoga. Tasting at Berringers, Don Chandon…We stayed at Villagio in Yountville.  This was nice, but not as nice as the Heritage House.  All in all, great food, great wine (and some not to my liking)…oh and Charles Krug, Sterling, Grgich…but now it is over and back to work.  We also had a picnic lunch at…hell, I can’t remember…  

[quote=Quincy Teacher]

Gosh Mike, I'm flattered that you pay so much attention to me.[/quote]

Imagine how we feel, with you spending so much attention on us.

BTW, your story about what you claim to have done doesn't change the fact that you posted here throughout the weekend....

Ah…yes V Sattui…and it was packed.  Great time…will definately go back to try more of the 400 wineries in the area.

OK here is what happened during the second meeting.

Met prospect at her home at 9:30 am.  She said let's find a coffee shop to sit down.  Went to starbucks and went thru same routine; $6 and change.  She said she has very good impressioin of me from last time.  Some small talks ensued, but the conversaton could not stay on investments.

She had said lat time that she would invite her brother who is a big executive at some firm.  So I asked her where she is.  She gave me some story that he's not back from a biz trip yet.  By then I kind of decided she's phony; but I was curious about her lunch plan.

At 10 am she said I need to stop by the bank, let's continue afterwards.  Took her to the bank which is 10 blocks away.  When she came out it was close to 10:50 am.  I suggest going back to starbucks, but she suggested we go to Olive Garden for some very good salad.  Looks like she's eating healthy these days.

At that point I told her (polite through the end), Ms. XYZ, this initial getting-to-know-you process is both for you to see if we are good enough for you, as well as for us to see whether we can serve you.  I don't think we can serve you.

My only "retaliation" was having her sit in my car after that message, as I took her home.

So folks, the biggest lesson I learned from this episode is that, yes, a person of $1 mil networth CAN risk that embarrassment just for a free salad.

Anyone want her phone number?

Anyone want her phone number?
 No, but I’ll take yours. I might have some money to invest and I’m hungry.

Good for you, bluestar.  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

You learned a lesson, and you didn’t allow yourself to become an eternal errand boy.  Learn from this going forward and it will have been a reasonable investment.  Ignore it and repeat the same mistake and it will be shame on you.

Dust off your shoes, turn your back on her and begin again.  There is a sea of deserving clients waiting for your help. 

Go find them.

[quote=bluestar]So folks, the biggest lesson I learned from
this episode is that, yes, a person of $1 mil networth CAN
risk that embarrassment just for a free salad.[/quote]



Did you think HNW people are different than you and me?

[quote=AllREIT][quote=bluestar]So folks, the biggest lesson I learned from this episode is that, yes, a person of $1 mil networth CAN risk that embarrassment just for a free salad.[/quote]

Did you think HNW people are different than you and me?
[/quote]

Are you saying you'd do what she did? Personally I think the woman has a screw loose, and in that regard, people with money are just as  suspectible to lunacy as people without.

[quote=bluestar]

I have an ad in a paper advertising asset management service.  Last week I received a phone call from a prospect, who asked me to meet her at a coffee shop near her house.

I met her on Friday 10 am at starbucks.  She's an 60 year old lady.  Once in the coffee shop, naturally I bought coffee for both of us.  This woman ordered the biggest cup of some exotic coffee drink, asked for hot water and other stuff, needing a tray to carry all her stuff.

Once we sat down, she pulled out a Fidelity statement.  On it she had highlighted the balance number, and ask me to read the number to her, which is $1.2 mil.  I guess she was trying to make sure I get it that it is a $1million+ acct.

She started talking about herself, telling me how many investments her family has, and that she had never worked a day in her life, and that she married well and raised 3 good children who are doctors and lawyer, etc.

In between talking about herself we briefly touched about investments but she was very unfocused.

Suddenly she said she forgot some document at her doctors office and asked if I can drive her there.  I did.

Then when we got out of the doctor's office, she said if you still have time now we can talk about investments; let's find a place.  I said OK and she suggested going to Pasta Pamadoro for some "salad".

Once there, she went into a ordering spree again.  She ordered soup, then Salmon salad with an extra piece of salmon, separate plate of spinach, two glasses of red wine.  She barely could eat half the food and asked for boxes to take food home. 

We were not done yet, she needed dissert and coffee.  The bill came out to be $70, with my portion costing just $13.  This is not an outrageous amount when it comes to wining and dining in our industry, but she was so obviously abusing the courtesy and shamelessly doing so too.

Again, in between talking about herself we talked about investments here and there, but she's still very unfocused.

Before we parted she asked me to meet her again on Wednesday, and tell her what I allocation I would suggest for a $1 mil portfolio that will generate 8%-10% annual return.  "Oh, by the way" she said, "I need to go to the bank first on Wednesday".

----------------------

Do you think this is a serious lead?  She is obviously abusing my time and my T&E budget, no question there.  I just can't determine whether she is genuinely considering my service, or has no such intention at all.

I do have some clients who from time to time treat me like their chauffeur and expect me to treat them to lunch, but they feel comfortable about it since they have given me business.

I have never met a PROSPECT who are so bold.  But on the flip side, maybe that boldness indicates she's serious.... I don't know. 

What do you think?

[/quote]

Are you an indy?  Either way, doesn't your company have a proposed way to "doing business"?

I disagreee with the above suggestion, you don't "assume" you have her business.

With this type of client who wants to abuse your time, it would be best setting up a specific time in your office to discuss her finances.  After the first cup of coffee, I would have said, "we're going 'dutch".

I'm curious to at what lengths brokers go to in getting a client!!!

#1You should have given her an "If then" close, "Sure, I'll drive you to the bank, but then we're going to my office so we can get your accounts open and switched over from Charlie Schwab." Not a question, a statement of fact, an assumed close.

#2If she balked, then you say, "Well, if when you decide that I'm the guy that you want to provide you with all the great services that my firm offer, then I'll be more than happy to work with and for you. I'll be glad to drop you off at the bank, but then I NEED  to go to my office to deal with my existing clients." (I can't believe you waited 50 minutes for her and then blew her off.)

#3If she balks further, then close for DNC exemption, "Well, Ms Jones, I'll be happy to keep you in my tickler file, and when I have some ideas I think will help you, if it's ok with you I'll give you a call." 

Good points, though.  Just disagree with the assumption outlined in #1 above.  You obviously need to brushup on your Opening and closing techniques.  Don't let the client abuse your time.  Little old ladies in sixty year old range like the attention of being catered to but doesn't mean they will give your their business as you obviously shown here.

bluestar,

 Pay no attention to whomit. He's the guy who thinks he can close anyone. (And he's right, as long as it's an imaginary sale hypothetically conducted on an internet forum.)

 In the real world, it will serve you well to be honest when identifying a Qualified Prosepect. A Qualified Posepect is one who A) Has money to invest AND B) Has the desire and ability to invest.

 Yourwoman may or may not have had A, but she ABSOLUTELY lacked B.

What lengths should he go to, though to get business?  bluest needs to have his processes standardized without having someone abuse his time, wouldn’t you agree?  Suggest preliminary questions first to ensure client isn’t bs’ing you.  Tell the client you ain’t running no escort service.  We know about people getting the free lunches at ameriprizesux (it ain’t no prize! to work there) but you should be able to easily tell when you are being swindled.  The customer is always right but they have to be your customer first!

YHWY,

He closed, we all close all the time. The question is what we close for.

Bluestar closed for his ego, but not for his business.

He closed the door, and he burned his bridge behind him. More than burning the bridge, he made an enemy out of somebody, which may be ok on an internet forum, but it's just not a smart way to do business. This woman now has a story to tell all of her friends, and Bluestar is the villian in that telling, Ms Jones is Sweet Polly Purebreed. Dumb Dumb Dumb!

Never forget that you don't know who knows whom!

Whomit. If blue's post is all true, this woman had no desire to do business and may not even have had any investable assets. Yes, a deal was closed, a free-lunch looser was sent packing. Victory: bluestar.

 You keep on thinking you can will people not only to deal with you, but to have the assets to do so. It's just not a practical theory to share. Not every person willing to speak to you is a legitimate prospect. Only newbies and failures waste time dealing with those identified as the non-qualified.

Having assessed the two meetings in totality, I came to the conclusion that this prospect is not worth converting to client.  It was unclear how much more time needs to be invested before conversion, and it was clear she's gonna be a pain to service in the future.  So I cut loss. 

Others might make a different call for the same situation, but my call was to cut loss.

We are "boutique" enough not to need a rigid standardized procedure.  Every prospect and client is different and we do our best to accomodate (this woman does not drive, for example, so insisting her to come to my office would nix any meeting from the beginning).  It's just that this prospect went beyond our ability to accomodate.

[quote=ameriprizesux]

#1You should have given her an "If then" close, "Sure, I'll drive you to the bank, but then we're going to my office so we can get your accounts open and switched over from Charlie Schwab." Not a question, a statement of fact, an assumed close.

#2If she balked, then you say, "Well, if when you decide that I'm the guy that you want to provide you with all the great services that my firm offer, then I'll be more than happy to work with and for you. I'll be glad to drop you off at the bank, but then I NEED  to go to my office to deal with my existing clients." (I can't believe you waited 50 minutes for her and then blew her off.)

#3If she balks further, then close for DNC exemption, "Well, Ms Jones, I'll be happy to keep you in my tickler file, and when I have some ideas I think will help you, if it's ok with you I'll give you a call." 

Good points, though.  Just disagree with the assumption outlined in #1 above.  You obviously need to brushup on your Opening and closing techniques.  Don't let the client abuse your time.  Little old ladies in sixty year old range like the attention of being catered to but doesn't mean they will give your their business as you obviously shown here.

[/quote]

And you need to go back to client school and know what's happening.

You say to Ms Jones 'If this then that.' she still has every right and ability to say "No!" and in Blewitstar's case a "No" is as good as a "Yes". But the important thing is to not give her the oppening to say "Okay, no!" If she's going to say no, she has to say it on her own, not because he suggested it.

This is very much like the "Is there anything else?" close which goes essentially:

Pitch idea, then comes Q&A.

"Well, what's the street consensus forward earnings on this company?"

"That's a very good question Mr. Jones, but before I answer it, let me ask you this, Is there anything other than the forward earnings that are standing in the way of this investment?"

If "No"

Then "Great, actually the forward earnings is what attracts me to this idea in the first place, they're looking for $2.00 this year and $3.00 next year, that's 50% growth trading at a 12 P/E, Let's pick up 3,000 shares."

If "Yes"

Then "Great, what else is standing in the way?" 

In my experience, birds of a feather flock together; cheapskates tend to associate with cheapskates.  I would have to think twice if she were to ask me to meet with her friends.

SF bay area is flooded with wealthy people.  $1 mil acct, while nice to have, really is just average, maybe even slightly below.  A few of our peer firms don't even take accts below $1 mil.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

YHWY,

He closed, we all close all the time. The question is what we close for.

Bluestar closed for his ego, but not for his business.

He closed the door, and he burned his bridge behind him. More than burning the bridge, he made an enemy out of somebody, which may be ok on an internet forum, but it's just not a smart way to do business. This woman now has a story to tell all of her friends, and Bluestar is the villian in that telling, Ms Jones is Sweet Polly Purebreed. Dumb Dumb Dumb!

Never forget that you don't know who knows whom!

Whom, Bluestar made the correct decision, despite your advice.

This woman now has a story to tell all of her friends, and Bluestar is the villian in that telling, Ms Jones is Sweet Polly Purebreed. Dumb Dumb Dumb!

I wouldn't worry about it.  If this woman actually HAD any friends, THEY would be carting her around town and going to lunch with her instead of her freeloading off of a newbie broker that she knew was desperate for her so called million dollar account.

She was scamming you.  Live and learn.

bluestar, go rent Boiler Room and Glenngary Glen Ross. You'll get all of whomitmay's cliches AND be entertained.

 Whomit, I coulda sworn you took your ball and went home a few months back, vowing never to return.

[quote=granuja]

This woman now has a story to tell all of her friends, and Bluestar is the villian in that telling, Ms Jones is Sweet Polly Purebreed. Dumb Dumb Dumb!

I wouldn't worry about it.  If this woman actually HAD any friends, THEY would be carting her around town and going to lunch with her instead of her freeloading off of a newbie broker that she knew was desperate for her so called million dollar account.

She was scamming you.  Live and learn.

[/quote]

Project much?

What could possibly be better than having introduction to a pile of millionaire "friends" who were used to being submissive?

Everybody has friends. Even I have friends! Stop loading all of your rationalizations on this character.

[quote=YHWY]

bluestar, go rent Boiler Room and Glenngary Glen Ross. You'll get all of whomitmay's cliches AND be entertained.

 Whomit, I coulda sworn you took your ball and went home a few months back, vowing never to return.

[/quote]

You only got introduced to AIDA in a movie which you probably don't understand anyway?

I think I was 8 years old when I first read AIDA in a sales training book.

Of the two of us, Whom's advice is the one bluestar should be taking.

As to my balls: Chin. 

Gentlemen,

Her blatant abuse in the first meeting caught me off guard, but for the second meeting I did prepare a few questions to test her (similar to all the good stuff proposed here).  I don't want to do a transcript but the bottomline is she was obvious dancing around the topic, to the point I felt I've done my due diligence.

If anyone else feel like taking a shot, I'm not kidding, I'm willing to share her phone number (just take me out to a $70 Pasta Pomodoro lunch when you convert).

Is it OK to post number here?

[quote=ameriprizesux][quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=YHWY]

Whomit. If blue's post is all true, this woman had no desire to do business and may not even have had any investable assets. Yes, a deal was closed, a free-lunch looser was sent packing. Victory: bluestar.

 You keep on thinking you can will people not only to deal with you, but to have the assets to do so. It's just not a practical theory to share. Not every person willing to speak to you is a legitimate prospect. Only newbies and failures waste time dealing with those identified as the non-qualified.

[/quote]

First off, that's a gigantic "IF".

The rest of your blather is just that, speculation and bluster.

Was she a leech? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't mean that blowing her off was the smart way to go. It was only that Blewitstar didn't have the ballz to close before her drove her to the bank (when he had any at all leverage in the relationship) That he sat out in the car for 50 minutes with nothing but a whiff of a chance of taking control of the situation and then not even having the hairs to say, yeah, we'll go to lunch AFTER we go to the office and open the accounts tells me that, probably, Blewitstar's post is probably not the truth that the truth really was.

It was the truth that comforted Bluestar's ego.

[/quote]

Reread bluestar's posts.

She had the funds.  She showed you a legit statement.

Bluestar, you lacked the ballz to stay in control of this prospect who was leading you by the ballz.

Small talk at first meeting: Parking is really really a hassle in this town - so Ms. Waste of Time, how do you normally get around if you don't drive, take a cab?

I have no problem with taking you to the bank since I understand that yuo don't drive - how do you normally get your errands done, I don't recall what you said before?  Do you normally take a cab?

Ms. Waste of Time, let me propose this:  "When your brother is in town, why don't you have him drive you to my office and I can discuss doing business with both of you?  I find that I and my clients can focus much better in my office.  By the way, I also make good Starbucks coffee and have several varieties of tea available, too.  We can call a delivery service for lunch if we want?  Sound like a plan!"

Look forward to doing business with you ...and maybe your brother, too!

You lost out on an opportunity.

You blew it.  Always be closing.  A good less for "next time".  Don't let the client lead you by the ballz, have th balls to "lead" them instead.

.....If you like challenges, you could call and redeem yourself and say, we can try discussing business again at my office, when should I swing by and pick you up?  (..... Mind going with me while I run a few erands, cleaners...stop off at my bank first...) I'll pick up a couple of coffees and salads to go on the way over. 

Always be closing.

Whom, Maybe if you stopped wasting so much time chasing unqalified prosepcts (or at least telling others to) you wouldn't be so angry.

 It's funny that you use terms like "Bluster" and "Projection" when addressing others, as you have obvious insecurity issues.

Have you met Putsy? I think you guys would really hit it off!

Is it ok to post a prospect's name and number here?

What are you? Desirous of being in a different business?

Sure go ahead and post it, and then when she gets abusively cold called by fifty or sixty people, I'll give her a call and tell her why it's been happening. Then she'll call you manager and you'll be so far out the door so fast it'll make her attorney break a sweat chasing after you!

Don't be stupid!

Amerinancy,

Don't!

Now that I want to give you her contact info, you don't want it?? 

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Is it ok to post a prospect's name and number here?

What are you? Desirous of being in a different business?

Sure go ahead and post it, and then when she gets abusively cold called by fifty or sixty people, I'll give her a call and tell her why it's been happening. Then she'll call you manager and you'll be so far out the door so fast it'll make her attorney break a sweat chasing after you!

Don't be stupid!

Amerinancy,

Don't!

YHWY,

You can't argue the reasoning so you start with the attacking of the poster.

Typical. Juvenile. Playground. Typical.

Knock yourself out.

I destroyed your "reasoning" be defining "Qualified Prospect" a term every real sales person knows intimately. You retorted that bluestar's post probably wasn't truthful. An odd twist, if ever I've seen, to justify one's reasoning. By this logic, your advice is valid but only assuming bluestar is lying. Odd.

 You do seem, in any case, to be a very angry individual.

And all the other posters here are so jovial!

Blue, I think you did the right thing.  It’s easy to play monday morning quarterback here, but I think you read this lady correctly (albeit belatedly) and I think you handled the break with decorum, despite what some would have you think.  Your biggest mistake was in how you started the relationship, but I assume you’ve learned something from that…

Is it OK to post number here?

NO

[quote=YHWY]

I destroyed your "reasoning" be defining "Qualified Prospect" a term every real sales person knows intimately. You retorted that bluestar's post probably wasn't truthful. An odd twist, if ever I've seen, to justify one's reasoning. By this logic, your advice is valid but only assuming bluestar is lying. Odd.

 You do seem, in any case, to be a very angry individual.

[/quote]

This is seriously twisted.

My reasoning was not dependent on whether this prospect was qualified or not. My reasoning was that this fellow shut the door on a prospect based upon his ego.

I suggested that there were better ways for him to have #1 Qualified the client #2 take control of the relationship and #3 exit the relationship without burning his bridges.

For you to assume that the prospect was a non qualified prospect based on what Bluestar has said is simply speculation (it may be true it may be false) but you don't know enough to know whether the prospect is qualified or not. 

If the truth was told by both Blewit and the prospect, then she has the assets to be a prospect (if he was inexperienced enough to have given the statement back before giving it a very thorough going over, that just adds to what we know about Blewit). She made the effort to respond to his ad (as they say in the car business, nobody comes on the lot unless they are interested in buying a car. I assume that you know that the tire kicker might not even want to admit to themself that they want to be sold.) A million dollar client presented itself to him, it's his job to figure out how to get that money into his book. If you're only going to go after the easy ones then you're going to be bumping into a whole lot of other 'low hanging fruit pickers'.

Blewit failed to excite her interest beyond being a towel boy. He was probably right to have cut his losses. He was wrong to cut his losses in such a way that he never has the opportunity to try something new on the prospect. He kamakazied, he didn't live to fight another day. That's dumb.

I didn't retort that his post wasn't truthful, and whether it was or wasn't doesn't make a whole lot of difference. The end result was that he gave the woman a shitsandwich for lunch and is here telling us that he did the right thing. I'm just telling him how he did the wrong thing.

Meanwhile, we know that blew didn't tell us the whole story because he said that he had developed some trick questions that he asked her but he didn't want to bore us with the details (because he knows that if he said to her "Are you going to open an account with me?" and she said "No, not today." and he still drove her to the bank and waited for 50 minutes for her we'd laugh at him.) So he's giving us a self serving version of the events (although admitting that he waited for the woman for 50 minutes is pathetic beyond all comprehension) 

We're talented in this business and we can read people. You read that I am an angry person, you read that the lady is a loser.

I know that people will always protect their own ego, we have no choice. Ego is survival, ego is self and we will shy away from all things that threaten to harm our egos. The only way we overcome our "fear of rejection" is to convince ourselves that rejection will bring us closer to success, which nourishes our sense of self. Obviously, with Bluestar he has not reached that point yet. His ego is protected by a robin's eggshell.

This is demonstrated by the fact that he comes here looking for affirmation and advice. What, there are no big brokers in his office that would help him with some advice? Then it is demonstrated by his actions with the prospect. Then it is confirmed by his premature rejeculation all over the prospect's pretty dress (btw, 50 minutes in a bank? She's doing more than making a trip to the teller, which means that she probably has a fair sum in the bank as well, interesting that Blueballz didn't mention asking her what the trip was for).

So, yeah... The truth of this tale is probably somewhere south of BS's version.

[quote=Indyone]Blue, I think you did the right thing.  It's easy to play monday morning quarterback here, but I think you read this lady correctly (albeit belatedly) and I think you handled the break with decorum, despite what some would have you think.  Your biggest mistake was in how you started the relationship, but I assume you've learned something from that...[/quote]

I guess we're to assume that your response would be better at your advertised site.

All I can say is, I feel comfortable with the way I handle it. 

I always give a prospect at leat one meeting's chance, even if clients request to go to meet them.  As I said previously, even the help-me-with-whatever behavior is not new to me, because I have existing clients of about same acct size who ask me for help outside investments and I do help them.  I wanted to see if this is one of those, or a freeloader altogether.

I already had doubt about this lead after the first meeting, which is why I ask folks here for 2nd opinions.  The 2nd meeting pretty much went as I outlined in my earlier post.  I'm glad I went for the 2nd meeting and confirmed it; otherwise the guessing will kill me!!

Yes I could've kept the bridge in tact.  On the flipside I could've left her crippled ass at the bank to find her way home.  Ultimately I decided to still offer her a ride home, but let her know we know what she's up to.  Hopefully she refrain from piling on the extra salmon the next time.

[quote=Indyone]Blue, I think you did the right thing.  It's easy to play monday morning quarterback here, but I think you read this lady correctly (albeit belatedly) and I think you handled the break with decorum, despite what some would have you think.  Your biggest mistake was in how you started the relationship, but I assume you've learned something from that...[/quote]

So what will it be, brother?  I give you her contact info with right of first refusal/surrender(I'm sure that won't happen), you fly in from wherever you are, apply the AIDA on her, and close the million dollar acct that generates $10K revenue, maybe even the extra cash at the bank.  Well worth the cost of the trip.

Are you up to it?

[quote=Whomitmayconcer][quote=YHWY]

I destroyed your "reasoning" be defining "Qualified Prospect" a term every real sales person knows intimately. You retorted that bluestar's post probably wasn't truthful. An odd twist, if ever I've seen, to justify one's reasoning. By this logic, your advice is valid but only assuming bluestar is lying. Odd.

 You do seem, in any case, to be a very angry individual.

[/quote]

This is seriously twisted.

My reasoning was not dependent on whether this client was qualified or not. My reasoning was that this fellow shut the door on a prospect based upon his ego.

I suggested that there were better ways for him to have #1 Qualified the client #2 take control of the relationship and #3 exit the relationship without burning his bridges.

For you to assume that the client was a non qualified prospect based on what Bluestar has said is simply speculation (it may be true it may be false) but you don't know enough to know whether the prospect is qualified or not. 

If the truth was told by both Blewit and the prospect, then she has the assets to be a prospect (if he was inexperienced enough to have given the statement back before giving it a very thorough going over, that just adds to what we know about Blewit). She made the effort to respond to his ad (as they say in the car business, nobody comes on the lot unless they are interested in buying a car. I assume that you know that the tire kicker might not even want to admit to themself that they want to be sold.) A million dollar client presented itself to him, it's his job to figure out how to get that money into his book. If you're only going to go after the easy ones then you're going to be bumping into a whole lot of other 'low hanging fruit pickers'.

blewit failed to excite her interest beyond being a towel boy. He was probably right to cut his losses. he was wrong to cut his losses in such a way that he never had the opportunity to try something new on the prospect. He kamakazied, he didn't live to fight another day. That's dumb.

I didn't retort that his post wasn't truthfull, and whether it was or wasn't doesn't make a whole lot of difference. The end result was that he gave the woman a shitsandwich for lunch and is here telling us that he did the right thing. I'm just telling him how he did the wrong thing.

Meanwhile, we know that blew didn't tell uus the whole story because he said that he had developed some trick questions that he asked her but he didn't want to bore us with the details (because he knows that if he said to her "Are you going to open an account with me?" and she said "No, not today." and he still drove her to the bank and waited for 50 minutes for her we'd laugh at him.

We're talented in this business and we can read people. You read that I am an angry person, you read that the lady is a loser.

I know that people will always protect their own ego, we have no choice. Ego is survival, ego is self and we will shy away from all things that threaten to harm our egos. The only way we overcome our "fear of rejetion" is to convince ourselves that rejection will bring us closer to success, which nourishes our sense of self. Obviously, with Bluestar he has not reached that point yet. His ego is protected by a robin's eggshell.

This is demonstrated by the fact that he comes here looking for affirmation and advice. What, there are no big brokers in his office that would help him with some advice? then it is demonstrated by his actions with the prospect. Then it is confirmed by his premature rejeculation all over the prospect's pretty dress (btw, 50 minutes in a bank? She's doing more than making a trip to the teller, which means that she probably has a fair sum in the bank as well, interesting that Blueballz didn't mention asking her what the trip was for.).

So, yeah... The truth of this tale is probably somewhere south of BS's version.

"So what will it be, brother?  I give you her contact info with right of first refusal/surrender(I'm sure that won't happen), you fly in from wherever you are, apply the AIDA on her, and close the million dollar acct that generates $10K revenue, maybe even the extra cash at the bank.  Well worth the cost of the trip.

Are you up to it?

How about a little fire, Strawman?

Yeah, that's apples to apples. "Hi Ms Jones, you don't know me but I'm here, today only to drive you about town and take your million dollar acount from Schwab, which I'll be glad to advise you on from across the nation."

I like how she became crippled all of a sudden!

See YHWY? You didn't have the whole story. It'll come out in dribs and drabs as best suits the protection of blewit's ego. Now he only waited at the bank because she is "crippled". Forget that he should have closed before the bank even opened.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

[quote=Indyone]Blue, I think you did the right thing.  It's easy to play monday morning quarterback here, but I think you read this lady correctly (albeit belatedly) and I think you handled the break with decorum, despite what some would have you think.  Your biggest mistake was in how you started the relationship, but I assume you've learned something from that...[/quote]

I guess we're to assume that your response would be better at your advertised site.

[/quote]

You'll never know

Is that a no?

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

"So what will it be, brother?  I give you her contact info with right of first refusal/surrender(I'm sure that won't happen), you fly in from wherever you are, apply the AIDA on her, and close the million dollar acct that generates $10K revenue, maybe even the extra cash at the bank.  Well worth the cost of the trip.

Are you up to it?

How about a little fire, Strawman?

Yeah, that's apples to apples. "Hi Ms Jones, you don't know me but I'm here, today only to drive you about town and take your million dollar acount from Schwab, which I'll be glad to advise you on from across the nation."

I like how she became crippled all of a sudden!

See YHWY? You didn't have the whole story. It'll come out in dribs and drabs as best suits the protection of blewit's ego. Now he only waited at the bank because she is "crippled". Forget that he should have closed before the bank even opened.

I see, whomit. You read bluestar's story, surmised that it was at least in part untrue, accurately calculated what the untruths were and factored them into your advice, making your advice absolutey unassailable.

 Conversely, I took bluestar at his word, identified a non-qualified prospect as such and shared that oppinion with bluestar. Which assessment seems more reasonalbe?

 Ever hear of "Achem's Razor"?

 Have you met Putsy? I honestly think there's a potential brotherhood to be forged there.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Justify all you want. The fact is you let your ego get in the way of your sales responsibility to yourself and your firm. [/quote]

I didn't know we had a responsibility to ourselves and our firms to bring in clients we didn't see as a good fit. That's news.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Bad fits and "screw loose" clients are the ones that end up badly. Perhaps in arbitration, perhaps in that “life force killing” way, but either way, you’ll pay.

Given what we’ve been told of this woman (50 minutes in a bank parking lot? I would have left her there) she’s not good client material, regardless of the possible account size. Could he have closed her? Perhaps, but that would just be the beginning of the problems. This much I can tell you, not closing her, from what I gather of the situation, wasn’t due to “ego”.

[quote=bluestar]

All I can say is, I feel comfortable with the way I handle it.  [/quote]

Of course you do, doesn't mean it's right. You protected yourself from rejection, that's comfy like a warm blankie and a kiss from mommy.

[quote=bluestar]I always give a prospect at leat[sic] one meeting's chance, [/quote]

Really? WOW! You actually give a prospect a whole one chance to do business with you? Man, you're awfully good to people!

[quote=bluestar]even if clients request to go to meet them.  As I said previously, even the help-me-with-whatever behavior is not new to me, because I have existing clients of about same acct size who ask me for help outside investments and I do help them.  I wanted to see if this is one of those, or a freeloader altogether.[/quote]

Left in so that I don't get accused of taking anything out of context.

[quote=bluestar] Ialready had doubt about this lead after the first meeting, which is why I ask folks here for 2nd opinions.  The 2nd meeting pretty much went as I outlined in my earlier post.  I'm glad I went for the 2nd meeting and confirmed it; otherwise the guessing will kill me!![/quote]

2nd opinions, 2nd meeting and 2nd guessing you mean. Botom line, a fish showed itself, you didn't have the lures in your tackle box to land it. That's what happened here. Then, instead of going back to the bait shop and trying again, you whizzed in the water and killed the fish (along with you don't know how many others).

[quote=bluestar]

Yes I could've kept the bridge in tact.  On the flipside I could've left her crippled ass at the bank to find her way home. [/quote] You shouldn't have driven her to the bank without a clear understanding of what was going to happen when she came out of the bank, and going for more coffee wasn't what it should have been.

[quote=bluestar] Ultimately I decided to still offer her a ride home, but let her know we know what she's up to. [/quote]

"We"? "We knowwhat she's up to"? Who is this WE? We as in the people on the internet and you? We as in Brokers in general? What are you, too afraid to take full responsibility for your decision? If you were man enough then you would have said "I know what she was up to!" (personal responsibility, even in Frisco you gotta take it!) 

And let's not forget that the ride home was your humiliation of her and your "retaliation". Big strong man, humiliating a crippled up old widow woman!

[quote=bluestar]Hopefully she refrain from piling on the extra salmon the next time.[/quote]

I guess you taught her! 

You should prolly find a different line of work.

But now I'm just beating on you for the fun of it. So I'll stop.

How about a little fire, Strawman?

 Angry

"Hi Ms Jones, you don't know me but I'm here, today only to drive you about town and take your million dollar acount from Schwab.." It was Fidelity.

 Confused.

As to my balls: Chin. 

 Gay.

Folks,

Anyone interested in taking a shot at this lead can email me at [email protected].  But I'm gonna keep my right-of-first-refusal offer to Whomitmayconcer on the table for 24 hours. 

Com'on bro, instead of telling us how good you are, why not just do it and in the process get a million dollar acct?

[quote=YHWY]

I see, whomit. You read bluestar's story, surmised that it was at least in part untrue, accurately calculated what the untruths were and factored them into your advice, making your advice absolutey unassailable. [/quote]

Unassailable? You haven't even touched on the advice, you're too busy attacking me to "assail" the advice.

Meanwhile, you're strawmanning. I said that the veracity of his post was immaterial. Let's say the entire episode is made up. Every single lettter is a fictional novelette. It doesn't matter. The fact remains that Blewit's actions were dumb. They were the actions of someone with very little sales experience. All I'm trying to do is to get through to him that there is more to sales than presentations and you can't expect every prospect to have gone to client school.

The beauty of this business is sales. Now, in the inifinte wisdom of the firms, they have created an environment where they don't need Salesmen, they just need salesclerks, order takers, waiters "Would you like growth with a side of international exposure? That's what our Economist's special is? Very good sir."

[quote=YHWY] Conversely, I took bluestar at his word, identified a non-qualified prospect as such and shared that oppinion with bluestar. Which assessment seems more reasonalbe?[/quote]

Again, his word is not at issue. I took him at his word that he effed up royaly in this meeting and then rejected the client before the client could reject him. He punked out.

[quote=YHWY] Ever hear of "Achem's Razor"? [/quote]

No, I've never hear of "Achem's Razor" is it anything like Occam's Razor?

This is often paraphrased as "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the right one," or alternately, "we should not assert that for which we do not have some proof." In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities (although this is not always the same as simplicity[1]). It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

Originally a tenet of the reductionist philosophy of nominalism, it is more often taken today as a heuristic maxim that advises economy, parsimony, or simplicity in scientific theories.

I don't see how it applies given that you are making a supposition that the woman is an unqualified prospect without knowing lots of things (not least of which being Blewit's sales ability).

Meanwhile, I make no assumptions about the woman or her worthiness as a prospect or a client and comment on the one thing that we did have information on; and that was blewit's actions.

Based on Occam's Razor, my position is more valuable in that it makes less assumptions.

Of course Achem might be something different. What movie did you see that taught it to you?

Whomit, From Dictionary.com:

"Achem’s razor to the most simple solution, one which requires the least free
parameters. Our current concept is the following: When an SSC is born, ...
journals.cambridge.org"

 But I will give you your also used, alternate spelling. See, it only took me a second to double check the spelling. It took you almost an hour to learn the definition.

 I leave it up to our esteemed colleagues to determine whose position holds water. Good luck with that!

[quote=YHWY]

Whomit, From Dictionary.com:

"Achem’s razor to the most simple solution, one which requires the least free
parameters. Our current concept is the following: When an SSC is born, ...
journals.cambridge.org"

 But I will give you your also used, alternate spelling. See, it only took me a second to double check the spelling. It took you almost an hour to learn the definition.

 I leave it up to our esteemed colleagues to determine whose position holds water. Good luck with that!

[/quote]

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/quickSearch

I don't see your spelling there even once.... Even though I searched Achem's Razor specifically.

And I've been aware of Occam's Razor for quite some time now, longer than you've known AIDA for sure.

" I leave it up to our esteemed colleagues to determine whose position holds water. Good luck with that!"

Right and wrong are not a popularity contest YHMY. The facts remain.

The facts remain.

 Of which you have NONE. Only made-up scenarios. I took bluestars story as fact. (if it's not, this is just masterbation - which would explain your proficiency)

When you come to work for me (not you, mikebutler222 you ) you have a responsibility to me to be the best salesman that you can be. I expect that you will give me 100%

That reminds me, you're the guy who runs an "indy" office who cons brokers to come to your firm as "indy's'" but pays them like wire house employees while pocketing the difference. I shall now refer to you as "Pimp".

BTW from Reference .com Which I guess is the new name for Dictionary .com (been in my favorite file since Hector was a pup)

 There are no dictionary entries for achems razor, but razor is spelled correctly.

So I guess you lied.

Here's the whole page for ya:

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Did you mean achems razor?

Paranormal News -- Your Source for UFO and Paranormal Related ...
(I believe I recall this from college philosophy, many years ago, as Achem’s
Razor.)Jumping to the irrational conclusions immediately can only open one up ...
www.paranormalnews.com

[quote=YHWY]

The facts remain.

 Of which you have NONE. Only made-up scenarios. I took bluestars story as fact. (if it's not, this is just masterbation - which would explain your proficiency)

When you come to work for me (not you, mikebutler222 you ) you have a responsibility to me to be the best salesman that you can be. I expect that you will give me 100%

That reminds me, you're the guy who runs an "indy" office who cons brokers to come to your firm as "indy's'" but pays them like wire house employees while pocketing the difference. I shall now refer to you as "Pimp".

[/quote]

First off, you might want to remember that there's always a U in masturbation, mental or otherwise.

Secondly, there are facts. The first FACT is that I commented on sales technique. The comments are independent of the veracity of the story they are related to the content as displayed.

The second fact is that your position took more suppositions to arrive at your conclusion (even if it's just one, it's more than zero).

Thirdly, your characterization of my business is erroneous in that I don't "con" anybody, I don't pay at wirehouse rates, everybody who works here has payouts dramatically higher than they would get at a wire house. Lastly, you got a problem with capitalism? Making money off the labors of others is what made this country great, you pinkoe commie queen!

I have no problem with capitalism or prostitution. I do, however call Pimps Pimps.

[quote=YHWY]

Oh, and Pimp,

 I brought up "Achem's Razor" because I understood that it pertained directly to your position. You look (and are) foolish to argue that you understand the concept better, when it was my addition to the discussion.

 P.S.: I cited dictionary.com as my source. Your reading comprehension needs work.

[/quote]

Let's see, you misspell it and misutilize the word and I'm foolish for saying that I understand it better than you do? Because you said it first?

That's embarassing YHWY. You should go home now.

[quote=YHWY]I have no problem with capitalism or prostitution. I do, however call Pimps Pimps.[/quote]

You got beat man, just admit it and go home.

Secondly, there are facts. The first FACT is that I commented on sales technique. The comments are independent of the veracity of the story they are related to the content as displayed.

Pimp, Fair enough. You are a master of sales technique. On that topic, bluestar has specifically offered to give you this million dollar prospect (fish who's shown herself) as a referal. Are you man enough to take it? (I got that from an early 18th century business text, not Glenngary Glen Ross.)

 It's a yes or no question.

You got beat man, just admit it and go home.

 Does that work with your employees? Because declaring victory from your back is funny here.

[quote=YHWY]

You got beat man, just admit it and go home.

 Does that work with your employees? Because declaring victory from your back is funny here.

[/quote]

Ahh the PeeWee Herman defense "I know you are but what am I? Infinity!"

You got nothin, I'm just gettin warmed up!

Go home.

You two are hilarious and a good reason for the “other” forum.

conveniently ignored again....

Secondly, there are facts. The first FACT is that I commented on sales technique. The comments are independent of the veracity of the story they are related to the content as displayed.

Pimp, Fair enough. You are a master of sales technique. On that topic, bluestar has specifically offered to give you this million dollar prospect (fish who's shown herself) as a referal. Are you man enough to take it? (I got that from an early 18th century business text, not Glenngary Glen Ross.)

 It's a yes or no question.

 Lastly:

[quote=YHWY] Amen, Exprop! I am way too easily irritated by the troll people.

[/quote]

Don't have to worry about it now, BANNED, till tommorrow at least.

Thanks Exprop. I need to learn my lesson, though. I get dragged into sh*t way too easily.

[quote=Indyone]Blue, I think you did the right thing.  It’s easy to play monday morning quarterback here, but I think you read this lady correctly (albeit belatedly) and I think you handled the break with decorum, despite what some would have you think.  Your biggest mistake was in how you started the relationship, but I assume you’ve learned something from that…

I guess we're to assume that your response would be better at your advertised site.[/quote]

...and your four paragraphs of blather were better?!!!  If you're such a master of the debate squad, why don't you come on over and tackle me there, coward?  If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

You're a whiny little b*tch arguing about semantics...it's not surprising that the admin got tired of you.

[quote=banned][quote=Indyone]Blue, I think you did the right thing.  It’s easy to play monday morning quarterback here, but I think you read this lady correctly (albeit belatedly) and I think you handled the break with decorum, despite what some would have you think.  Your biggest mistake was in how you started the relationship, but I assume you’ve learned something from that…

I guess we're to assume that your response would be better at your advertised site.[/quote]

...and your four paragraphs of blather were better?!!!  If you're such a master of the debate squad, why don't you come on over and tackle me there, coward?  If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

You're a whiny little b*tch arguing about semantics...it's not surprising that the admin got tired of you.

He love to use a fancy turn of phrase to demonstrate his (allegedly) superior intelligence, and then he is confused when people don't understand the meaning he is trying to convey...generally he blames it on others not having the intellectual horsepower to understand his "profound arguments".

You can't "win" by destroying the opposition or fleeing the forum. To grow, you have to integrate the opposition. If the ego dies, you die. If it grows, you become deluded. You'll see.

are you kidding???  way to much time spent!!

[quote=fluor]

He love to use a fancy turn of phrase to demonstrate his (allegedly) superior intelligence, and then he is confused when people don’t understand the meaning he is trying to convey…generally he blames it on others not having the intellectual horsepower to understand his “profound arguments”.

You can't "win" by destroying the opposition or fleeing the forum. To grow, you have to integrate the opposition. If the ego dies, you die. If it grows, you become deluded. You'll see.

God bless you and God bless us all each and every one. -Tiny Tim 

Won't do it, just like none of the other firms are going to do it. Advisor productivity tends to follow a power law, so you have a fairly long tail of low producing producers and a few hot shots. Given how bouncy the GDC is, its much too risky to cut out people around the minimum.

Since we're off topic, I am going to reply here where I can post to what Allreit said over there.

This whole idea of advisor productivity and the marketing mix which is profitable to the firm is interesting. You could see these "marginal" 200-300k producers as helping pay the fixed costs for the firm - no way are they going to be cut, especially potentially going into a recession, if they are closer to 300k.

Every name brand wirehouse and broker dealer needs to be working on cutting costs now, but those costs are going to be more back office related.

Since the independent b/ds can make smaller producers profitable, this represents and competitive threat which some wirehouses will answer with taking good care of the lower end producers in the marketing mix.  Other wirehouses will just cut the bottom and focus on selling proprietary products (like packaged subprime debt) to higher net worth clients.

You need some marginal producers around to put pressure on the breakout producers, and to help feed their egos.

[quote=fluor]

 You could see these "marginal" 200-300k producers as helping pay the fixed costs for the firm - no way are they going to be cut, especially potentially going into a recession, if they are closer to 300k.

[/quote]

Yeah, well, if only it worked that way in reality. Like I said on the other thread, $300k producers are safe (largely due to how much of the firm they really represent, think the difference in mean, median and mode when dissecting the producer base), imho, but there is a production level at which low producers aren’t helping enough with fixed costs to overcome the legal liability they represent.  The cost of each desk isn’t just the desk itself, the support staff etc., the real cost includes the liability in terms of arbitration each rep represents. As it turns out, lower producers are involved (we’re told) in more arbitration and other legal action.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

That may be a function of the type of clients they bring to the firm or the kind of corners they’re willing to cut to keep making that minimal production that they feel keeps their job. Either way, they, percentage wise, represent a liability to the firm that well outsizes their percentage of producers on the whole.

Good point, no question new business is expensive and sometimes dangerous.

And, the whole idea of bringing along the next generation of producers is unpleasant but necessary.

LPL cherry picks assets under management and avoids the cost and liability of training and gathering iffy new money, for that matter, and cuts back office costs - ultimately forcing branded platforms to cut costs and provide better more motivated personal service, or just stop serving the mass affluent altogether.

I guess wire houses going up market and LPL and such serving the masses is a win for all financial advisory professionals. So just face the music, is your production level is below 300k, embrace the change.

[quote=YHWY]

bluestar, go rent Boiler Room and Glenngary Glen Ross. You'll get all of whomitmay's cliches AND be entertained.

 Whomit, I coulda sworn you took your ball and went home a few months back, vowing never to return.

[/quote]

I rented Boiler Room last night to see if I could get a little nugget or two.

A big fat nada, don't bother. (No, I don't have a life beyond my business if you were wondering. I'm all in and it's all consuming to me)

Gaddock,
 I promised cliches (i.e. A sale is made on every call. Either you close them one why they should buy stock or they close you on why they shouldn’t.) not legitimate sales ideas. Hopefully you were at least entertained!

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=fluor]

 You could see these "marginal" 200-300k producers as helping pay the fixed costs for the firm - no way are they going to be cut, especially potentially going into a recession, if they are closer to 300k.

[/quote]

Yeah, well, if only it worked that way in reality. Like I said on the other thread, $300k producers are safe (largely due to how much of the firm they really represent, think the difference in mean, median and mode when dissecting the producer base), imho, but there is a production level at which low producers aren�t helping enough with fixed costs to overcome the legal liability they represent.  The cost of each desk isn�t just the desk itself, the support staff etc., the real cost includes the liability in terms of arbitration each rep represents. As it turns out, lower producers are involved (we�re told) in more arbitration and other legal action.[/quote]

I'm not sure there's any solid evidence for that.

The main reason to keep the $300 producers around, is that a good number of the higher producers are hot shots who will flame out and vice versa with reserve pool.

Ultimately it is the firms economic interest to retain the marginal producer (e.g they should keep everyone who generates even $1 over the cost of keeping him)

The wirehouses (at least mine) use a number somewhere around $270k as what they need to break even on a producer. Dont ask me what goes into that, I have no clue.

It goes beyond that tho, its all about the metrics, if $300 puts you in 5th quintile at a wirehouse, you have problems, if based on the rest of the firm, or your LOS , 300k puts you in third quintile, you are ok.