I do and some firms are still like that. It’s just a matter if we Legacy AGE reps go “Network” and  say"“I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!” . I like the analogy of the boiled frog that was used on the board - throw a frog in boiling water and he jumps out but turn the heat up slowly and he is cooked. The 2pm conference call with Danny was WS turning the heat up ever so slightly.

[quote=Gaddock]Yeah the egg thing did suck bad. I think the entire thing was smoke from Bagby while he was looking for a buyer and golden parachute.[/quote]

So would you say it sucked eggs?

  Oh…I slay myself…

Can we say “fee based business???” Just reading over the new comp schedule… better start my transition. I feel very badly for our family at the home office… I always know when i am speaking with a WB associate…(sorry WB step-children)… the level of service and desire to assist is all but forgotten. Sink or swim is the forever motto in our biz.

I did the math and you have to average 46k per month in production (assuming no haircuts) to average a 45% payout. That means you have to place 55 million in fee based accounts (assuming a 1% trail, unless you rape your client with a higher fee). It’s only in the low 30 millions if you want a 40% payout. Oh, did I mention client accounts are off 30% YTD so you’ll need to fill the gap in the next couple months with new money which I am sure clients would love to throw in the market now versus being “safe”.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ami_XEftEtKw&refer=home

There’s always FINET.   90% sounds pretty good if you want to break away…

There is always 100% payout (and even 20% performance allocation if you so desire) if you set up shop and go RIA. 

My experience with Schwab Institutional has been great so far.

My A number is A1.

Finet is still under Wb’s umbrella, regardless of what the kool-aid drinkers say.

I spoke with a person at an independent firm, one of the bigger independent firms… He confided that if you cast aside all the BS his payout after expenses such as rent, computer, staff, etc… it was about 55% - 63% gross before taxes.  It never went over 64% or so he said and he’d been in it for about 22 years.  I don’t think that included the additional 6% in social security you have to pay out in taxes.  Am I accurate with those numbers?  Next the new payout plan eliminates ticket charges on non-discounted trades - so, as I said, 40K seems to be paying 43.5% - isn’t that somewhere in the area of AGE?  Finally, in the past I moved from a real big firm to a smaller one.  The smaller was eventually taken over and became a real big firm once again.  I prospect more than many and the difference in response from a big well known firm to a smaller but still recognizable firm was nauseating.  When we were acquired and became big again, I said Thank God for that.  My business then increased substantially.  Maybe it was all in my perception but numbers are numbers.  My point is, if your business is based on new money, even a 10% perceived difference in status of the firm you work for can add up to $40,000 a year in revenue.  If the 40K figure is too high for you, don’t estimate 1 year.  Assume an average life of client of 7 years and calculate the dollar difference name recognition makes.  Just 1 extra million dollar account per year can add up.  Coke spends hundreds of millions a year on brand and name recognition, if it doesn’t matter why are they wasting all that money?  I think a big name and big advertising (if done correctly) is a big deal but you might disagree.  If independent to wirehouse makes no diffence at all, answer this:  Why is the average independent broker production is around $140,000 average wirehouse producer at $500,000 or more.  My point is that if the spread on payout nets to about 11% (that’s 17% less 6% extra Social Security tax), why not have the big name?  Thanks to independents and the apparent ease of going that direction, I feel payouts at the big firms will now have to be close enough to be just below the net payout from going independent.  That’s a good thing.  I feel as though WS recognized this trend and opened up choices of independent, profit formula, or the standard grid to brokers.  Here’s what I see down the road:  Million dollar producers will eventually receive over 55% on average at wirehouses.  I could be wrong but that’s the way it seems to be going.  I also feel that WS and Wells will start a big advertising campaign after the December merger date.  The new company should be very well capitalized and thats a great thing.  So, if the payout spread is minimized, the wirehouse approach seems to me to be better for business at this point. So things are good and we just recvd a big raise with the elimination of that horrible ticket charge (if you don’t discount equity trades) thats a significant amount of money in payout for many. But no one on the board has said anything good.  I think its great however everyone on this forum is talking about boiling frogs.  No one has said anything positive.  Again, it seems to me that even if these people were getting 120% payout they’d find something to gripe about. 

Sell High,

Friendly word of advice.  If you really want people to read and respond to your posts, you should consider employing that old convention called paragraphs, or at least randomly insert breaks every now and then. 

As it is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, your post, by it’s very length and presentation, defends itself against the risk of being read. 

[quote=Sell High]I spoke with a person at an independent firm, one of the bigger independent firms… He confided that if you cast aside all the BS his payout after expenses such as rent, computer, staff, etc… it was about 55% - 63% gross before taxes.  It never went over 64% or so he said and he’d been in it for about 22 years.  I don’t think that included the additional 6% in social security you have to pay out in taxes.  Am I accurate with those numbers?  Next the new payout plan eliminates ticket charges on non-discounted trades - so, as I said, 40K seems to be paying 43.5% - isn’t that somewhere in the area of AGE?  Finally, in the past I moved from a real big firm to a smaller one.  The smaller was eventually taken over and became a real big firm once again.  I prospect more than many and the difference in response from a big well known firm to a smaller but still recognizable firm was nauseating.  When we were acquired and became big again, I said Thank God for that.  My business then increased substantially.  Maybe it was all in my perception but numbers are numbers.  My point is, if your business is based on new money, even a 10% perceived difference in status of the firm you work for can add up to $40,000 a year in revenue.  If the 40K figure is too high for you, don’t estimate 1 year.  Assume an average life of client of 7 years and calculate the dollar difference name recognition makes.  Just 1 extra million dollar account per year can add up.  Coke spends hundreds of millions a year on brand and name recognition, if it doesn’t matter why are they wasting all that money?  I think a big name and big advertising (if done correctly) is a big deal but you might disagree.  If independent to wirehouse makes no diffence at all, answer this:  Why is the average independent broker production is around $140,000 average wirehouse producer at $500,000 or more.  My point is that if the spread on payout nets to about 11% (that’s 17% less 6% extra Social Security tax), why not have the big name?  Thanks to independents and the apparent ease of going that direction, I feel payouts at the big firms will now have to be close enough to be just below the net payout from going independent.  That’s a good thing.  I feel as though WS recognized this trend and opened up choices of independent, profit formula, or the standard grid to brokers.  Here’s what I see down the road:  Million dollar producers will eventually receive over 55% on average at wirehouses.  I could be wrong but that’s the way it seems to be going.  I also feel that WS and Wells will start a big advertising campaign after the December merger date.  The new company should be very well capitalized and thats a great thing.  So, if the payout spread is minimized, the wirehouse approach seems to me to be better for business at this point. So things are good and we just recvd a big raise with the elimination of that horrible ticket charge (if you don’t discount equity trades) thats a significant amount of money in payout for many. But no one on the board has said anything good.  I think its great however everyone on this forum is talking about boiling frogs.  No one has said anything positive.  Again, it seems to me that even if these people were getting 120% payout they’d find something to gripe about. 
[/quote]

I think the new payout is better for legacy WS brokers, ticket charges and payout went up for you guys, you are already used to teh rediculous minumum commission and zero payouts so that is now change. What you are missing is the fact that you cant simply add 24% on teh first 10k and 50% over taht and come up with your payout, if 20% of your biz ends p with ticket charges and or zero payout those figures drop FAST and are no where close to 40%

Your post makes some sense and I'm sure you'll see a some of responses on this forum.  However, I agree with Morphius, it's very hard to read.  Almost like an old bank customer that just rambles endlessly.

I think that billion dollar team that left ML to go to Ray Jay will improve their numbers.

[quote=Gordon Gekko]I think that billion dollar team that left ML to go to Ray Jay will improve their numbers.

Sell High,

Friendly word of advice.  If you really want people to read and respond to your posts, you should consider employing that old convention called paragraphs, or at least randomly insert breaks every now and then. 

As it is, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, your post, by it’s very length and presentation, defends itself against the risk of being read. 

I think you listed your three choices in terms of respectability: RJF, SF, Finet. I am even wrestling with the timeframe of making a move. Do you:

There is always 100% payout (and even 20% performance allocation if you so desire) if you set up shop and go RIA. 

My experience with Schwab Institutional has been great so far.

My A number is A1.

I’m waiting to see what the package is for FINET owners.  Maybe nothing at all, but we’ll see.  However, it is REALLY difficult to weigh out the options while things are still unknown.

Good point, Vet20. At this point we are weighing 50% of the options (the “leaving” options) with the other 50% unknown. The rumor mill seems to indicate we’ll know something anywhere from today through year-end. Have any high profile AGE guys left the firm lately?

The hardest part is to wait.  If we're going to have to re-paper our clients due to WFC, then it might as well be done upon leaving.  I would hope that we'd know what the package might look like before the re-papering...

Anyone want to buy an established practice?  Maybe that's the answer.