Retention....please do not hijack
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"WFC wanted the entire firm and knew they were getting it for a song and dance. The bank is HIGHLY profitable once the mtg debacle is factored out of the equation. "
Uh, huh. . . Just like GM is highly profitable once you factor out legacy pension and health benefits.Merger approved. Next order of buisiness – rebranding and retention.
Happy Holidays!! WW[quote=WSxAG] "WFC wanted the entire firm and knew they were getting it for a song and dance. The bank is HIGHLY profitable once the mtg debacle is factored out of the equation. "
Uh, huh. . . Just like GM is highly profitable once you factor out legacy pension and health benefits.[/quote]
What a poor comparison. The mtg issue isn’t a perpetual cost and secondly, the write downs will prove to be over done and there will be a massive recapitalization of those write downs.
But, whatever floats your boat.
Now instead of GM you are talking about Disneyland. They are not even in the third inning of writedowns.
Now instead of GM you are talking about Disneyland. They are not even in the third inning of writedowns.
really? You might want to rethink that. The numbers for homes going into forclosure have been steadily dropping over the last 3-4 months....
This is an EXCELLENT read on just how wrong the Moodies and rating agencies projections on the mtg situation really is.
http://bankstocks.com/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=5436&ArticleTypeID=2
You have not mentioned commercial loans, credit cards, auto loans etc… Unfortunately it is not even the loans but what the banks did when they securitized and levereaged these loans. JPM has over 10 trillion in just the credit derivatives.
Retention will be here by early to mid January so lets assume January 23rd. In just 31 more days all of this specualtion will be over. All this talk of prorated retention is nonsense. Wells Fargo is buying Wachovia Securities IN ADDITION to Wachovia bank which is not what they HAD to do. My prediction after being back at corporate for two meetings is same deal as Merrill with a few more bones thrown to lower producers which Merrill left off.
[quote=AGE Forever]
Retention will be here by early to mid January so lets assume January 23rd. In just 31 more days all of this specualtion will be over. All this talk of prorated retention is nonsense. Wells Fargo is buying Wachovia Securities IN ADDITION to Wachovia bank which is not what they HAD to do. My prediction after being back at corporate for two meetings is same deal as Merrill with a few more bones thrown to lower producers which Merrill left off.
[/quote][quote=Blue2] Now instead of GM you are talking about Disneyland. They are not even in the third inning of writedowns.
really? You might want to rethink that. The numbers for homes going into forclosure have been steadily dropping over the last 3-4 months....
This is an EXCELLENT read on just how wrong the Moodies and rating agencies projections on the mtg situation really is.
http://bankstocks.com/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=5436&ArticleTypeID=2
[/quote]
Aren't those the same guys that said AIG LEH and all the others were ok, and didnt even downgrade them before collapse....consider the source
[quote=WSxAG]They wanted East Coast bank deposits - they ridded themselves of Piper years ago, b/c at the end of the day - though you and I may believe the brokerage business is a viable business entity - They don’t. Actions speak louder than words, and from what I’ve seen, thus, far they (WFC) are woefully short on both counts.[/quote]
US Bank owned Piper not Wells!
jpm's credit derivative exposure has been blown out of proportion for over a decade. their actual exposure is minimal, kind of like a bookie holding bets on both teams in the same game. also, wfc scoured wb's books while citi drooled over them. wfc's conservative underwriters valued the loan portfolio at .74/dollar. indeed, this company was stolen by wfc with a 70+bil tax credit to boot. there is no question that as of today we are part of the strongest financial firm in the industry. it'll take a while for it all to come together, but by y/e 2010, this will be one incredible money making machine. lastly, for the negative bs isg gets from the misinformed, it mints money. nearly fully staffed by former wirehouse guys, average production exceeds 500m with about 50% fees/trails and a constant flow of referrals taking acats from ml, sb, ubs (NOT BANK ASSETS)...throw in the va and fund haircuts the firm takes off the top and isg's numbers blew wfc's mind wfc ran a bs bank brokerage and likely had no interest in ws until they learned we had a better solution. they took the whole firm with the clarity to avoid interfering with something that works - look who's running the show - monday sits on wfc's board and ludeman's still our ceo retention is coming and i'd gladly take a bunch of wfc common stockYou have not mentioned commercial loans, credit cards, auto loans etc… Unfortunately it is not even the loans but what the banks did when they securitized and levereaged these loans. JPM has over 10 trillion in just the credit derivatives.
[quote=fritz][quote=AGE Forever]
Retention will be here by early to mid January so lets assume January 23rd. In just 31 more days all of this specualtion will be over. All this talk of prorated retention is nonsense. Wells Fargo is buying Wachovia Securities IN ADDITION to Wachovia bank which is not what they HAD to do. My prediction after being back at corporate for two meetings is same deal as Merrill with a few more bones thrown to lower producers which Merrill left off.
[/quote] Which meetings were you at? I can say you were not at the WFC meetings. They are saying something else from what you have heard. I am shocked by how anyone can say what they are hearing from the WS side, they are not cutting the checks.[/quote] Fritz, I know you think you have the inside scoop on retention thru your WFC contacts but I have a funny feeling things will not be as dire as you project. WFC is run by relatively smart people (at least right now, we can say that about most bankers until we look thru the glaring light of hindsight...) that bought a business they may not have wanted for .01 on the $. Either they pay up and let Danny and his minions run the show (which means retention) or they control things from SF with a tight purse string. My understanding is that they let their seperate business units run with a fair degree of autonomy. WS is profitable and a valuable commodity, maybe not near as valuable now as it was 6 mo's ago, but still a viable and profitable business unit. Most corp. exec will not jettison a profitable entity in this type of economic enviroment especially at these depressed prices. So, my prediction: 1. We are called Well Fargo Advisors/Investmetns 2. If they name us anything other than WF ___ we are on the block for sale at the first 'uptick' 3. We get a retention pkg north of MER. . 4. If we don't get anything, as you forecast, WS will have about 7000 advisors working for it in 2010. Whether we find out in 10 days or 30 doesn't matter anymore...worry about what you can control...."what is, is, what isn't, isn't."[quote=WSxAG]Perhaps the question to be asking is the following; Where will my valued clients be treated best? The rest gets pretty easy after that.
That seems to be the question that is not being answered -What will the WFC platform ultimately offer my clients in terms of product, services, and fees. That would seem to be an easy one to answer - if they intended to keep the brokerage at all, which I have my doubts about.[/quote]Ahh Hahhh!!! I smell the scent of wisdom! "Where will my valued client's be treated best?" That is the real question. That is real "retention bonus" in my eyes, because that is ultimately what will retain or repulse our team. If I get paid a lot to stay, but my clients would be happier elsewhere, then I am a dishonest, shortsighted, and greedy fool. If I go where my clients will have the best experience, then I will make far more money than anyone will think of paying me in the form of a retention check. If my clients are happier, they stay, they send thier friends, and they bring me more of thier wallet. If my clients are not happy, then the check the firm gives me is the only thing I have.
Now, I just need to figure out the question of where my client's will be happiest....unfortunately that is not an easy task.
[quote=shredder][quote=fritz][quote=AGE Forever]
Retention will be here by early to mid January so lets assume January 23rd. In just 31 more days all of this specualtion will be over. All this talk of prorated retention is nonsense. Wells Fargo is buying Wachovia Securities IN ADDITION to Wachovia bank which is not what they HAD to do. My prediction after being back at corporate for two meetings is same deal as Merrill with a few more bones thrown to lower producers which Merrill left off.
[/quote] Which meetings were you at? I can say you were not at the WFC meetings. They are saying something else from what you have heard. I am shocked by how anyone can say what they are hearing from the WS side, they are not cutting the checks.[/quote] Fritz, I know you think you have the inside scoop on retention thru your WFC contacts but I have a funny feeling things will not be as dire as you project. WFC is run by relatively smart people (at least right now, we can say that about most bankers until we look thru the glaring light of hindsight...) that bought a business they may not have wanted for .01 on the $. Either they pay up and let Danny and his minions run the show (which means retention) or they control things from SF with a tight purse string. My understanding is that they let their seperate business units run with a fair degree of autonomy. WS is profitable and a valuable commodity, maybe not near as valuable now as it was 6 mo's ago, but still a viable and profitable business unit. Most corp. exec will not jettison a profitable entity in this type of economic enviroment especially at these depressed prices. So, my prediction: 1. We are called Well Fargo Advisors/Investmetns 2. If they name us anything other than WF ___ we are on the block for sale at the first 'uptick' 3. We get a retention pkg north of MER. . 4. If we don't get anything, as you forecast, WS will have about 7000 advisors working for it in 2010. Whether we find out in 10 days or 30 doesn't matter anymore...worry about what you can control...."what is, is, what isn't, isn't."[/quote][quote=CommonSense] [quote=WSxAG]Perhaps the question to be asking is the following; Where will my valued clients be treated best? The rest gets pretty easy after that.
That seems to be the question that is not being answered -What will the WFC platform ultimately offer my clients in terms of product, services, and fees. That would seem to be an easy one to answer - if they intended to keep the brokerage at all, which I have my doubts about.[/quote]Ahh Hahhh!!! I smell the scent of wisdom! "Where will my valued client's be treated best?" That is the real question. That is real "retention bonus" in my eyes, because that is ultimately what will retain or repulse our team. If I get paid a lot to stay, but my clients would be happier elsewhere, then I am a dishonest, shortsighted, and greedy fool. If I go where my clients will have the best experience, then I will make far more money than anyone will think of paying me in the form of a retention check. If my clients are happier, they stay, they send thier friends, and they bring me more of thier wallet. If my clients are not happy, then the check the firm gives me is the only thing I have.
Now, I just need to figure out the question of where my client's will be happiest....unfortunately that is not an easy task.
[/quote] maybe this could help to clarify... ml and bac merger is like lindsay lohan and brittany spears getting together...an epic trainwreck in motion...it'll be best to observe from the outside at usb, you'll have to explain the irs agent in the room during client meetings ms is in decent shape, but mitsubishi's presence could be an issue. i guess the regionals are there, but those platforms have limitations. we'll all soon find that though we all endured a bit of hell in '08, this is the best place to be.
[quote=CommonSense]
[quote=WSxAG]Perhaps the question to be asking is the following; Where will my valued clients be treated best? The rest gets pretty easy after that.
That seems to be the question that is not being answered -What will the WFC platform ultimately offer my clients in terms of product, services, and fees. That would seem to be an easy one to answer - if they intended to keep the brokerage at all, which I have my doubts about.[/quote]Ahh Hahhh!!! I smell the scent of wisdom! "Where will my valued client's be treated best?" That is the real question. That is real "retention bonus" in my eyes, because that is ultimately what will retain or repulse our team. If I get paid a lot to stay, but my clients would be happier elsewhere, then I am a dishonest, shortsighted, and greedy fool. If I go where my clients will have the best experience, then I will make far more money than anyone will think of paying me in the form of a retention check. If my clients are happier, they stay, they send thier friends, and they bring me more of thier wallet. If my clients are not happy, then the check the firm gives me is the only thing I have.
Now, I just need to figure out the question of where my client's will be happiest....unfortunately that is not an easy task.
[/quote]
+1 to all that...where will clients be treated best...no nuisance fees, good home office support and marketing, and a name they can trust..right now we have not alot of any of these. Second, how do they treat employees, benefits, payouts, retention....
as it stands now...there are a few options scoring highly in all of teh above and WS /WFC is not one....unless WFC changes the tide back to the way things were at AGE...I already know my answer.
[quote=go_huskies][quote=CommonSense] [quote=WSxAG]Perhaps the question to be asking is the following; Where will my valued clients be treated best? The rest gets pretty easy after that.
That seems to be the question that is not being answered -What will the WFC platform ultimately offer my clients in terms of product, services, and fees. That would seem to be an easy one to answer - if they intended to keep the brokerage at all, which I have my doubts about.[/quote]Ahh Hahhh!!! I smell the scent of wisdom! "Where will my valued client's be treated best?" That is the real question. That is real "retention bonus" in my eyes, because that is ultimately what will retain or repulse our team. If I get paid a lot to stay, but my clients would be happier elsewhere, then I am a dishonest, shortsighted, and greedy fool. If I go where my clients will have the best experience, then I will make far more money than anyone will think of paying me in the form of a retention check. If my clients are happier, they stay, they send thier friends, and they bring me more of thier wallet. If my clients are not happy, then the check the firm gives me is the only thing I have.
Now, I just need to figure out the question of where my client's will be happiest....unfortunately that is not an easy task.
[/quote] maybe this could help to clarify... ml and bac merger is like lindsay lohan and brittany spears getting together...an epic trainwreck in motion...it'll be best to observe from the outside at usb, you'll have to explain the irs agent in the room during client meetings ms is in decent shape, but mitsubishi's presence could be an issue. i guess the regionals are there, but those platforms have limitations. we'll all soon find that though we all endured a bit of hell in '08, this is the best place to be.[/quote]
Can you name the limitations of the Regionals vs...WS?
Just curious..I agree with all the other competitors and would never consider the Wirehouses.
They are limited in their exposure to the housing market, exotic investment products, and government bailouts.
[quote=Gordon Gekko]They are limited in their exposure to the housing market, exotic investment products, and government bailouts. [/quote]
Agreed…nice one GG!
Now that the deal has been approved…what’s next? The actual closing of the deal on the 31st? Do you think we’ll know shortly about retention? I have a deal all set and ready to go, but I’m holding on to find out from WS. Let’s just get this over with so we all can get back to business.