Questions for EJ guys
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foot - I understand your reasoning. What’s your point? Why do you care?
Jones FAs have a choice to make. They either stay with Jones and get bonuses when their offices are profitable enough and the firm is profitable enough, or they can leave. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads telling them to stay. The GP/LP/Associate relationship isn't going to change. This is not the first time that Jones has been in a zero bonus bracket. This is actually the second time in my relatively short career. You might think the system is flawed, but it works. The people who have the most on the line get paid the most. Period. Jones doesn't ever promise an FA anything other than a roughly 40% payout. Bonuses are just that. LP is a goal, but not a guarantee. Trips can go away. Fortunately for thousands of guys like me around the country (and world) we have received bonuses, have LP, and go on trips. Most of the time. Others, like this one right now, we don't get one of those three. I can now choose to move as many of my clients as I can somewhere else and reestablish myself, or I can take the rare bad with the mostly good and stick where I'm at. I know which way I've chosen. Evidenlty I'm not alone. Vets are not leaving. So, again, what's your point?[quote=Squash1]I will, but he hasn’t started prospecting for new (non-Jones people… Yes I believe there are Jones clients… and everyone else) clients… I think he will row himself in a circle start prospecting too late and be stuck… maybe not… [/quote]
Curious to what that means? What’s the difference between a Jones client and a non-Jones client? Can I, as a Jones guy, bring in non-Jones clients?
I prospect a lot, and I’d like to be able to identify and classify these creatures.
[quote=Squash1]
I was trying explain "dead assets" to a friend of mine who just went indy from Jones.. He was so happy he xfered $15Million to his new place, but he kept telling them "Nothing will change about your investments". They are all in A shares and 25 yr bonds...so assuming he had all of it in A shares.. that is only $37K in production vs if he was to annuitize half of his book that would be $75K in production(7.5Million at 1.0%), but he keeps missing the point of dead assets..
[/quote] Not to derail this extremely intriguing thread, but this brings up a good point. B24 and others have stated that they refuse to go indy with too few assets; however, a person coming from Jones will likely have a book that consists mostly of dead assets, and therefore the amount they take with them shouldn't be THAT big a factor into whether a move to independence will be successful. After all, most Jonesies spend most of each month chasing new money anyway, which is what they'll do as an indy with twice the payout. On the other hand, a guy at a wirehouse with a highly annuitized book is a TOTALLY different situation.[quote=Borker Boy][quote=Squash1]
I was trying explain "dead assets" to a friend of mine who just went indy from Jones.. He was so happy he xfered $15Million to his new place, but he kept telling them "Nothing will change about your investments". They are all in A shares and 25 yr bonds...so assuming he had all of it in A shares.. that is only $37K in production vs if he was to annuitize half of his book that would be $75K in production(7.5Million at 1.0%), but he keeps missing the point of dead assets..
[/quote] Not to derail this extremely intriguing thread, but this brings up a good point. B24 and others have stated that they refuse to go indy with too few assets; however, a person coming from Jones will likely have a book that consists mostly of dead assets, and therefore the amount they take with them shouldn't be THAT big a factor into whether a move to independence will be successful. After all, most Jonesies spend most of each month chasing new money anyway, which is what they'll do as an indy with twice the payout. On the other hand, a guy at a wirehouse with a highly annuitized book is a TOTALLY different situation. [/quote]Isn't the idea that you take your dead assets, go indy and move them into fee-based accounts?
I would not do what the guy in this example did, tell them that nothing would change with their investments. If price is an issue then you probably do not want them as clients going forward anyway.
Once again, I guess we should agree to disagree. It would be interesting to read what others think about our "banter."
You might think the system is flawed, but it works...Fortunately for thousands of guys like me around the country (and world) we have received bonuses, have LP, and go on trips. Thousands of guys like you have received bonuses. A small percentage of FA's have actually had bonuses that equal 10-20% of comp. Because they would be in Seg 5. How many in your region? In a seasoned region like my old region, there were 6-8 out of 50. Vets are not leaving. So, again, what's your point? The only reason I care to continue this with you is to illustrate the hypocrisy. A seg 3 broker (which I think you are) can be profitable and receive a bonus, but its peanuts. It might be a couple of hundred bucks to maybe a 1K paid three times a year. So if you net 80K before out of pocket expenses , and you receive 3K in bonus you are lucky if its 3-5% of comp. Again, technically you are correct, you are bonusable, and you are part of "thousands of brokers", as you say. And as far as Vets leaving...I would surmise that some might consider other opportunities if the GP's continue to make their dough and the really profitable FA's are left out. Those are the ones who are paying your bond interest (LP)and funding growth for the owners. What's your point? Why do you care? My intent was to illustrate the doublespeak that you continuously bring to the forum.[quote=footsoldier]I started from scratch in 1997. I ended with 44M under management when I left in 06. I was told I was a star…I earned LP…and now I am at 28M
[/quote] If you were a star, then I was a rock star. Looks I started just after you, left just before you with over 60MM. Today I am at 85MM--give or take. Y/Y asset level is almost identical. I took a few hits, but raised a lot of cash and bought a lot of puts in late '07 and early '08. I have added a lot of clients fleeing wirehouses in the last year--especially the last 5-6 months. Over $3 million new in April alone. Some of you will call BS, and that's fine. But, it's true.Spiff–
Can you buy puts yet? Or, is that "risky"? Is it any more risky than say, uh, standing still while your portfolio shrinks by 30-40%? I think that's a fair quesiton. Maybe you should pose it to Mr. Weddle for the next weekly column.Sooth-
Udaman. I don't feel like a star,and didnt' then. How much in recurring revenue? Growing assets in this marketplace. Tell us what you are doing, finally someone who is growing their business!!!Im not trying to start an argument, but you are on a forum with guys (I am not one of them) who have been in this business 10 years and you, 100 days in, are spouting off irrelevant commentary. Ever hear the quote, "Shut the f**k up for once and you might learn something" ?I just meant I have the numbers for Seg 2 almost Seg 3. I haven’t even reached Seg 1 “Officially” yet.
Ron-
Stop trying to start an argument. I never once said I had all the answers, and until I make that comment stop trying to use “un said words” in the form of a punch-line to try and be little me because I am new. Just because I am new, does not mean I don’t know ANYTHING. I obviously know SOMETHING, according to my performance. I am just giving you what I see. I see vets doing the same thing they have done in good times, and it’s not working. Thats why so many are below the line and I’m finding it easy to find accounts. It’s because I’m prospecting and spending quality time with my clients/prospects and most vet’s don’t want to. And for the argument that “we don’t have time to see them all”. I limit my clients/prospects to a certain number and each are qualified in certain ways based on amount invested or potential investment. That way there is never an excuse that there isn’t time to spend with these people.
Do you think a major leaguer asks a single A player how his swing looks? No. So these guys, 50mil AUM and 5+ years in the business don't give a flying crap about how you "do plenty of things for your clients that don't pay you anything." Get a clue.
Give him a few more months. Failure rate in this business has never been higher. Maybe he’ll be “Gone With the ‘wind3574’”. Go back to the mall and explain to me the benefits of going one level up on my cell phone plan.
[quote=Soothsayer]Spiff–
Can you buy puts yet? Or, is that "risky"? Is it any more risky than say, uh, standing still while your portfolio shrinks by 30-40%? I think that's a fair quesiton. Maybe you should pose it to Mr. Weddle for the next weekly column.[/quote]It's a fair question and the answer is and will probably always be no.
I think there are a lot of people at Jones who would think and act the same way you do. Selling puts or doing covered calls can be a great strategy if you find someone willing to do it. No doubt you get some clients that see the value in what you do. Great. There are lots of people out there.
However, for each of the people out there doing options to hedge a portfolio, there are dozens doing it to try to game the system and make a quick buck. As far as I know you can't get a license that just allows you to sell puts and nothing else. There might not even be an options trading system out there that will put those kind of limitations on a system. So, how do you monitor all of it? More manpower, more licensing, more money in the litigation war chest? From what I know of Jones' history, it was a decision that was made a long time ago and they aren't changing it.
[quote=footsoldier]
Once again, I guess we should agree to disagree. It would be interesting to read what others think about our “banter.”
You might think the system is flawed, but it works...Fortunately for thousands of guys like me around the country (and world) we have received bonuses, have LP, and go on trips. Thousands of guys like you have received bonuses. A small percentage of FA's have actually had bonuses that equal 10-20% of comp. Because they would be in Seg 5. How many in your region? In a seasoned region like my old region, there were 6-8 out of 50. - We've got half a dozen guys at Seg 5. We've got a ton doing high Seg 4 numbers. And that category is growing rapidly.Vets are not leaving. So, again, what's your point? The only reason I care to continue this with you is to illustrate the hypocrisy. A seg 3 broker (which I think you are) can be profitable and receive a bonus, but its peanuts. It might be a couple of hundred bucks to maybe a 1K paid three times a year. So if you net 80K before out of pocket expenses , and you receive 3K in bonus you are lucky if its 3-5% of comp. Again, technically you are correct, you are bonusable, and you are part of "thousands of brokers", as you say. - And...Where's the hypocrisy? It is what it is. There's no hypocrisy. The OWNERS are getting paid. The EMPLOYEES aren't getting a bonus. Again, where's the hypocrisy? Maybe I'm just dense, but when I signed on to be an FA I got told that I would get a bonus if my office was profitable enough and if the firm was profitable enough. I knew there would be times when the firm wouldn't be profitable. I also knew it would take years for my bonuses to be substantial enough to do anything other than to take my wife out for a nice dinner on a trip. I see the GPs making money from the firm. Again, OWNERS vs EMPLOYEES. Fortunately for me I happen to be an owner also.
And as far as Vets leaving...I would surmise that some might consider other opportunities if the GP's continue to make their dough and the really profitable FA's are left out. Those are the ones who are paying your bond interest (LP)and funding growth for the owners. - In reality it's all the little FAs out there who are just beyond location gain, but not yet profitable that pay for all that growth.
What's your point? Why do you care? My intent was to illustrate the doublespeak that you continuously bring to the forum. - You just keep believing what you want and I'll believe what I want.
[/quote]
Amen Ron. Look, I’ll apologize right now at wasting space here with what may seem to be unproductive flamethrowing but Windy and Spiffy puhleeeeeeeese S.T.F.U.!!!
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Here we have Windy, a Spiffy wanabee wasting space here giving advice while not quite yet “officially” segment one??? Spiff (1750+ posts and not even a Joneser LP!) could so easily be a top producer on GP track if he merely dialed the phone and worked his business and helped clients they way he helps to dilute and detract from possible good information on this board.
Your eyes are rolled to the back of your head as you pleasure nobody but yourself yourself creating investment industry amateur porn. Zip up guys. Open your eyes. Open your ears. But SHUUUUUUUUUTTTTT TFU!!!
I agree completely with your comments on Windy, but Spiff is fine and I believe he is an LP.
[quote=Ron 14]
Do you think a major leaguer asks a single A player how his swing looks? No. So these guys, 50mil AUM and 5+ years in the business don’t give a flying crap about how you “do plenty of things for your clients that don’t pay you anything.” Get a clue.
You totally just proved my point. If I don't know sh*t, why are vets in my region asking me for advice on my process and how to get the numbers I am? Why am I getting wires from Weddle praising my performance? Look I am not going to go into one of these "Windy's lying arguments", but just because I am only 4 months out, does in no way mean I don't have a few good things to tell to even a Vet. Everyone can use advice from EVERYONE at certain times.
No a Major Leaguer doesn't ask a Single A Player about his swing, thats why the single A player takes his spot once he gets his process down, regardless of how long the Major Leaguer has been around.
[/quote]
Wind - I'm trying to show some support here. But please quit beating your own chest. We know you are doing well. And you will get the praise you deserve - from your peers (not just at Jones, but in other aspects of the industry) if you keep getting things done for the next few years.
A newbie is a newbie now matter what. You have earned my respect (and I believe some others - although some people will still think you are full of crap) as a fast starter, but please don't think that translates into sustainable growth.
I wish you all the luck in the world, but man, ease up a little.
Everybody likes hearing success stories, just not "I'm so much better than everyone in my region's stories". And people come to me because I'm the greatest.
Sorry to hijack everyones thread, but I think we've gone a little off topic.