What were the monthly hurdles fly?  I know it depends on the base salary but let's say 50k. 

As it stands the PMD goals for $50k and under salary are:

Obviously these numbers are higher for the $50-75k path or the $75k+ path.  Each month's goals simply 1/3 of the quarterly goals.  All those numbers are on a cumulative basis.  The PCs and NNA don't mathc up which then creates the need for every trainee to sell front end products or accumulate a heck of a lot more on the NNA side.  And yes 96% of my class is gone, I started with 550 nationally and am down to 21.  It's a model built on failure but I can't do anything except produce or leave.

Flyonwall...  I am considering MSSB/ML and got offers of $75-80k base... older guy (37), career changer, top MBA in finance.  I have balked at doing it due to questioning whether I'd be a pu$$y on the phone as well.  I know I'd be better at selling a meeting vs. a product and look to build AUM not PCs.  Presumably PCs don't matter if you hit the other two thresholds... but is that true?  PCs are the actual revenue number.  Is it possible for an older person to take a more steady, polished approach?  I'd be able to bring about $2.5mm over immediately from family which would buy me some time, right?  Any thoughts would be appreciated on pacing yourself, etc.  I've read a lot of the BondGuy stuff and the 500 day war, etc.  While I would like to think I'd could do that, the fact that I have doubts leads me to believe I wouldn't do the requisite calls.  I've got a pretty big professional network.  Any thoughts on success of buying time with the immediate $$$ in the door and producing in a more organic matter.  I know a lot of people with money or that are service providers (lawyers, CPAs, etc.).

My bad, I copied from excel thinking it would work:

Los Month 3 = 4k PCs, $150k NNA, 0 NNHH: Month 6 = 10k PCs, $350k NNA, 0 NNHH: Month 9 = 18k PCs, $750k NNA, 1 NNHH: Month 12 = 30k PCs, $1.25m NNA, 2 NNHH

Month 15 = 50k PCs, $1.75m NNA, 2 NNHH: Month 18 = 70k PCs, $2.25m NNA, 2 NNHH: Month 21 = 90k PCs, $2.75m NNA, 3 NNHH: Month 24 = 115K PCs, $3.25m NNA, 4 NNHH

Month 27 = 145k PCs, $4m NNA, 4 NNHH: Month 30 = 175k PCs, $4.75m NNA, 4 NNHH: Month 33 = 210k PCs, $5.6m NNA, 5 NNHH: Month 36 = $250k PCs, $6m NNA, 6 NNHH

[quote=squash2]

Wasn't it hard to hit monthly goals with seminars.. don't those take a while to develop, then develop prospects into clients?

[/quote]

Actually, seminar clients were the quickest to close.  In one instance, a new client came the day after the seminar with a check for 200k.  But my topics were about my investment strategy, not what I usually see (asset allocation, planning, etc).   My investment strategy is a little different than the mainstream, and has a good bit of hedging built in, which certainly played well at that time. 

[quote=newregrep]

What were the monthly hurdles fly?  I know it depends on the base salary but let's say 50k. 

[/quote]

Mine were for the POA program, so the posted list above doesn't apply.  I can't remember them very well, though.

My best guess would be 2.5 mil by 6 months, 7.5mil by 12, and 15mil by 18 (there were more months of goals, but you get the point).  A portion of the assets also had to be "annuitized" (trail or recurring revenue of some sort).  Maybe 1.5 mil at 6 months, increasing to 10mil by month 18.

2.5mill by 6 months is no walk in the park, congrats on your success fly.  i was hoping to close 100k per week...

[quote=newregrep]

2.5mill by 6 months is no walk in the park, congrats on your success fly.  i was hoping to close 100k per week...

[/quote]

Thanks.  In full disclosure, I had a 750k head start with my father's pension buyout .

[quote=BullRunt]

My bad, I copied from excel thinking it would work:

Los Month 3 = 4k PCs, $150k NNA, 0 NNHH: Month 6 = 10k PCs, $350k NNA, 0 NNHH: Month 9 = 18k PCs, $750k NNA, 1 NNHH: Month 12 = 30k PCs, $1.25m NNA, 2 NNHH

Month 15 = 50k PCs, $1.75m NNA, 2 NNHH: Month 18 = 70k PCs, $2.25m NNA, 2 NNHH: Month 21 = 90k PCs, $2.75m NNA, 3 NNHH: Month 24 = 115K PCs, $3.25m NNA, 4 NNHH

Month 27 = 145k PCs, $4m NNA, 4 NNHH: Month 30 = 175k PCs, $4.75m NNA, 4 NNHH: Month 33 = 210k PCs, $5.6m NNA, 5 NNHH: Month 36 = $250k PCs, $6m NNA, 6 NNHH

[/quote]

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that these new goals were too difficult as the tilted the emphasis more towards short term production, rather than long term growth.  I couldn't agree more, but this is no accident.  ML wants to have their trainees shoulder the cost of their salary, more so than they did in the past.  For all intents and purposes, their was no PC requirement in the last program (there was, but it was "best ball" against 10mil annuitized, which was the far easier hurdle).  So in the last iteration of the program, which I came aboard with, everything was taken as a trail, there was no point in taking anything upfront.  And realistically, you were always one or two big accounts from shooting past a number of hurdles.  In this program, even when you bring a new client on, it can take quite a while for the production to start building.  That is, unless, one starts doing a lot of upfront business. 

It would shock me if the solution of choice for the ML trainee is other than a VA, paying 4.5 upfront with a meager 25bps trail.  That is the only way I see trainees hitting those lofty production goals.  The asset goals are laughable.  6MM in 36 months makes it seem so easy (I mean relative to typical training programs), but the devil is in the production.  By the time the trainee is ready to graduate the program, their book has a velocity of somewhere between 25-50bps on 6-10MM.  Call it 50bps on 10MM at 38% grid...19k per year....sweet.  Obviously it could be done differently, but this is my best guess as to how trainees are going to adapt to try to survive. 

Also of great importance.  Don't overlook the NNA and NNM metrics showing up.  Gone are the days where inherited assets could help you knock out your hurdles.  No senior FA or team member can shift assets to you to prop up your numbers.  You really do have to get a good chunk purely on your own, and I can't blame them for putting that in place. 

[quote=BullRunt]

As it stands the PMD goals for $50k and under salary are:

Obviously these numbers are higher for the $50-75k path or the $75k+ path.  Each month's goals simply 1/3 of the quarterly goals.  All those numbers are on a cumulative basis.  The PCs and NNA don't mathc up which then creates the need for every trainee to sell front end products or accumulate a heck of a lot more on the NNA side.  And yes 96% of my class is gone, I started with 550 nationally and am down to 21.  It's a model built on failure but I can't do anything except produce or leave.

[/quote]

No doubt. 

You really need to have PIA status to offer something unique to your prospects but that requires LOS 1. So, you could push annuities and munis, but at 40% payout why bother? You might as well join an insurance firm - you would probably get more training there anyway.

Even the best producers at Merrill could not make the PMD hurdles from scratch, and I will put any dollar amount on that. 

I'm an FA from the Bank of America side and I've noticed a few things about the ML PMD program since I merged into a Merrill office (I am not a PMD):

1.  The Merrill training program consists of 90% wholesaler presentations, 5% online tests, and 5% coaching from a mediocre Merrill advisor who is getting paid to do it. 

2.  I think an older, networked PMD has a better chance of success than a PMD with just a phonebook.  The Do Not Call List, which Merrill enforces, makes a huge difference.  Most PMDs have nothing to do at night except try to gather more "work" numbers for the day (which usually aren't covered by the Do Not Call rules).

3.  The attrition rate is very high.  However, it might be skewed by the 2008 meltdown when Merrill was firing everybody, everywhere.

4.  VA's only pay 2.5% upfront with an 80 bps trail.  Yes, they keep the rest.  Bank of America, with the identical annuities, paid 3.5% and a 1% trail.

5.  Everyone comes in with a lot of enthusiasm but unless you have a solid business plan, i don't see a PMD making it. This is regardless of teaming, partnering, etc.  The senior advisor can simply drop his existing PMD, keep the book (accounts are usually held jointly in a team), and pick up a new PMD.  They simply look at it as a free cold-caller.

6.  PMD's and Merrill brokers are banned from the bank branches.  This comes from way up top. So there are no easy bank referrals.

Many guys at the BOA side had it easy - not saying you did. The dirty little secret in the industry was to park your fat ass at the bank and collect the customers. Many built their books that way with connections to the middle market bankers and etc.,

The key with these lazy geeks is to see if they can keep those relationships which they never started. Odds are no. 

The guy in my office who backs me up was a BofA banker.....far from lazy....though different than the wirehouse. He covered 6 branches in a 30 mile radius, and spent days driving all over heck to ferret out small 529 plans from decent prospects for a 20-30% payout. And calling from the list of clients that had a credit card or money market at BOA to prospect new business, which he claims may sound easy, but was a heck of a lot more frustrating than trying to just call on your own some days because you were required to make a minimum number of contacts and if you didn't close or comply grid was cut. If you had a good deposit base and branches it worked, but if you were not in an affluent area, it hurt an awful lot trying to call on customers with $1000 checking accounts.

Frankly, I rememer starting with Pru Securities in 97.....200 in my trainig class that went to New York....only know of one other still in the biz....but I could still tatoo my goals on my forehead...... 12,000 in gross, $1.2MM in assets after six months to keep your job....25K in annual salary with bonus opportunities....double PC credit for annuitized business...not much different than now, and only 25% made it back at 6 months, and maybe 15% at one year.

If you can partner effectively and with a written agreement, go for it. If not, pray.

[quote=Otane]No doubt. 

You really need to have PIA status to offer something unique to your prospects but that requires LOS 1. So, you could push annuities and munis, but at 40% payout why bother? You might as well join an insurance firm - you would probably get more training there anyway.

Even the best producers at Merrill could not make the PMD hurdles from scratch, and I will put any dollar amount on that.[/quote]

Difficult, yes, but my numbers would have qualified for PMD graduation by 2 years in, and I would hardly consider myself one of the "best producers at Merrill". 

I agree with you, though, that if you basically have to push annuities to graduate, you might be better off elsewhere. 

[quote=BACFA]

I'm an FA from the Bank of America side and I've noticed a few things about the ML PMD program since I merged into a Merrill office (I am not a PMD):

1.  The Merrill training program consists of 90% wholesaler presentations, 5% online tests, and 5% coaching from a mediocre Merrill advisor who is getting paid to do it. 

2.  I think an older, networked PMD has a better chance of success than a PMD with just a phonebook.  The Do Not Call List, which Merrill enforces, makes a huge difference.  Most PMDs have nothing to do at night except try to gather more "work" numbers for the day (which usually aren't covered by the Do Not Call rules).

3.  The attrition rate is very high.  However, it might be skewed by the 2008 meltdown when Merrill was firing everybody, everywhere.

4.  VA's only pay 2.5% upfront with an 80 bps trail.  Yes, they keep the rest.  Bank of America, with the identical annuities, paid 3.5% and a 1% trail.

5.  Everyone comes in with a lot of enthusiasm but unless you have a solid business plan, i don't see a PMD making it. This is regardless of teaming, partnering, etc.  The senior advisor can simply drop his existing PMD, keep the book (accounts are usually held jointly in a team), and pick up a new PMD.  They simply look at it as a free cold-caller.

6.  PMD's and Merrill brokers are banned from the bank branches.  This comes from way up top. So there are no easy bank referrals.

[/quote]

Good post.

1.  Coudn't agree more.  I think the reason people said in the past that ML had a great training program had more to do with the competitive salary than it did with what they actually put in place to teach you.

2.  I think this is always the case, PMD or not.

3.  Attrition was incredibly high in my region even before the meltdown.  My complex's trailing 5 years showed a success rate in the low single digits.  I wasn't there before 07, but we were told the numbers.

4.  This was one of the biggest reasons I left.  Highway robbery.  ML takes a 1/3 off the top, before they put it to the grid and take 2/3.  Effective grid rate?  15%...a$$holes. 

who are you with now Fly?

[quote=newregrep]

who are you with now Fly?

[/quote]

My own RIA.  I also use a small BD for my commission based biz which takes a 10-15bps cut of that business only, not my fee-based biz.

Wow, great.  I'm not so thrilled about the interview tomorrow now, after hearing all this.  I do not want to be treated like a cattle...speaking from your experience Fly, is ML even worth it for a new guy?  I'm looking for a place to grow a business and learn a whole lot. 

I'm currently a RM for a major bank, and have been doing quite well.  But again, I work for a bank program...which means I'm very limited to what I can offer...but in return, they pay me a big salary+ annual bonus.

[quote=newregrep]

Wow, great.  I'm not so thrilled about the interview tomorrow now, after hearing all this.  I do not want to be treated like a cattle...speaking from your experience Fly, is ML even worth it for a new guy?  I'm looking for a place to grow a business and learn a whole lot. 

I'm currently a RM for a major bank, and have been doing quite well.  But again, I work for a bank program...which means I'm very limited to what I can offer...but in return, they pay me a big salary+ annual bonus.

[/quote]

Are you a bank FA or a branch /retail manager? If you are on the management side with a good salary, I  might think twice...but you need to go with your heart...or even transition to n FA role within the same bank, where if it didnt work out you would not lose your seniority and could go back.

If you are a ank FA, you likely no what you might be getting yourself into..more products no referrals, but autonomy.

[quote=newregrep]

Wow, great.  I'm not so thrilled about the interview tomorrow now, after hearing all this.  I do not want to be treated like a cattle...speaking from your experience Fly, is ML even worth it for a new guy?  I'm looking for a place to grow a business and learn a whole lot. 

I'm currently a RM for a major bank, and have been doing quite well.  But again, I work for a bank program...which means I'm very limited to what I can offer...but in return, they pay me a big salary+ annual bonus.

[/quote]

As hard as I am on them, I would still consider it, especially if you think you can do business the "right way" (not slamming every client you get into a variable annuity) and make it through their goals.  Keep in mind, though, it isn't a complete failure if you have success, but don't meet their goals.  By 15 months, I wasn't hitting the goals, but if I took my book with me to say, an indy BD, I would have been making nearly the same amount of money.  So you CAN have personal success, even if ML does not define it as success.  Don't get sucked into doing large upfront commission business at the detriment to your long-term business needs, just to meet their production hurdles. 

It felt like ML was the end game for me when I started, but I quickly turned to view it as a nice place to start a business, since the salary was good, but not necessarily my final destination.  I'd suggest building a nimble, portable book.  Do not get caught up in the "sticky client" process.  Stay away from the credit cards, checking accounts, BofA accounts, mortgages, etc.  They sell stickiness as being good for you, the lifelong employee of ML.  Really, it is mostly good for them.  Focus on the investments, shun the rest.   That is, unless/until you realize you are going to make it in the business, and you want ML to be your home for a long time.