[quote=bankrep1][quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=bankrep1]

Dirk show me an index annuity that will average 6-8%.  I have done due diligence and I can't find one.  The Allianz Masterdex 10 yr monthly avg was 6.38% 5yr. 3.8, but if you took out 1 year that was off the chart your returns look more like 4 to 5%.

MasterDex 10 sucks. You have to annuitize to get your earned interest. In ten years, it's gonna bite a lot of brokers in the ass when clients find out the truth.

You have to go ten years to get between 6-8%. I'm not going to call you an idiot for comparing a 5 year average with a 10 year average.

This was the highest return I saw in any EIA I did due diligence on.  The only reason it was 6.38% is because in 1994 or 1995 the S&P rose 2% or more each month for all 12 months.  This hasn't happened any other time in last 20 years so it's unlikely to happen again.  It's an anomoly.

Dirk I don't think anyone is jealous of your payout.  After all, if I wanted to be independent it's not exactly hard to do.  I believe if you call LPL they fly you out first class, put you up in the Ritz and shuttle you around in a limo, then sell you why 100% is better than 40%.  100% of nothing is still 0. 

I'm not going to call you a retard for thinking that they payout at LPL is 100%. Commissions on outside business, like insurance products, are paid at 100%. I'm surprised your ER hasn't told you about this. 

I know how it works 80/90/100 deoending on what you sell.  They have an ad on every other page of every magazine I get. 

I have a friend whose bank payout is 22% at first glance everyone says that sucks, however, he has about 15 people under him and gets paid 22% on all of their business.  Monthly his team does between 70-150K in production, not to bad at 22%.

I'm not going to call you an absolute imbecile for thinking that 22% of $150,000 is higher than 90% of $150,000.

Tell me how many independents are doing 150,000 a month there 2nd year in production?

[/quote] [/quote] [/quote]

I'm not aware of any that are doing $1.8mm/year, after two years. I don't believe your friend is, either.

He is not.  His 15 person team is though.  And he gets paid 22% on all 15 of them. 

[quote=babbling looney]

the money made is interest and not capital gains. Interest income is taxed as interest income. Nothing new there

Right you are in the EIA, interest only, taxed as ordinary income deferred until withdrawn.

When your husband bought your car, he gave up the opportunity to make money with your money. When your husband bought the house, he gave up the opportunity to make money in the bond market. I'm sure you have a point, but it is well hidden by your hair.

You are so cute when you try to be sexist.   The point is that by putting money into an EIA the clients get the feeling that they are participating in the market but are actually foregoing the real opportunity to earn more.  They are doing so with the knowledge that they will not lose any money either.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  We all make trade offs in life.

Just because YOUR clients feel that way, doesn't mean MY clients feel that way. How are you sending them this message? I suggest you stop doing that.  

The problem arises when the clients don't understand the crediting methods and that sometimes those "bonus" annuities (EIA and VA) require annuitization.   That is how EIAs get a bad rep.  BTW: for 7yr vet.  Not all EIAs are tied to the S&P.  There are DJIA and other indexes used as well as a fixed income bucket for the super conservative scairdy cat customer.

I don't understand how airplanes work and I don't need to know to realize the benefit of travelling in them. Lift and thrust or something like that, I hear.

I don't buy cars that lose money.  I consider my vehicles as investments and my cars/trucks appreciate in value so that I make a profit when I sell them, with the exception of my daily driver which I lease. 

How nice for you. 

[quote=bankrep1]

He is not.  His 15 person team is though.  And he gets paid 22% on all 15 of them. 

[/quote]

Any team of 15 people should be doing WAY more than that.  Your friends are averaging $120,000/year gross. With a 22% payout, they make an average pre-tax income of $26,400. Since the range you gave me has a low end of $840,000/year gross, these people are in serious trouble. I'm being generous by using the high end in my analysis.

Seriously...do you think things through before you try to stump me? You are presenting yourself as a very stupid bank worker.

[quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=bankrep1]

He is not.  His 15 person team is though.  And he gets paid 22% on all 15 of them. 

[/quote]

Any team of 15 people should be doing WAY more than that.  Your friends are averaging $120,000/year gross. With a 22% payout, they make an average pre-tax income of $26,400. Since the range you gave me has a low end of $840,000/year gross, these people are in serious trouble. I'm being generous by using the high end in my analysis.

Seriously...do you think things through before you try to stump me? You are presenting yourself as a very stupid bank worker.

[/quote]

You don't get it.  He has 15 bankers/reps that work on his team.  He is kinda in charge but also sees higher end clients.  The bankers are paid a salary plus a very small commission, the reps are paid a salary plus commission.  He is paid 22% of the team production.  I have the opportunity to go there, but I am happy building my biz in my institution  I'm a lone wolf, I like it that way. 

[quote=bankrep1][quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=bankrep1]

He is not.  His 15 person team is though.  And he gets paid 22% on all 15 of them. 

[/quote]

Any team of 15 people should be doing WAY more than that.  Your friends are averaging $120,000/year gross. With a 22% payout, they make an average pre-tax income of $26,400. Since the range you gave me has a low end of $840,000/year gross, these people are in serious trouble. I'm being generous by using the high end in my analysis.

Seriously...do you think things through before you try to stump me? You are presenting yourself as a very stupid bank worker.

[/quote]

You don't get it.  He has 15 bankers/reps that work on his team.  He is kinda in charge but also sees higher end clients.  The bankers are paid a salary plus a very small commission, the reps are paid a salary plus commission.  He is paid 22% of the team production.  I have the opportunity to go there, but I am happy building my biz in my institution  I'm a lone wolf, I like it that way. 

[/quote]

I'm not gonna say that you are full of crap, because I'm too nice.

Read Bank investment consultant magazine.  There are tons of examples of people like this.

[quote=bankrep1]

Read Bank investment consultant magazine.  There are tons of examples of people like this.

[/quote]

I'll get right on it.

You may want to refer to my earlier post on EIA's:

http://forums.registeredrep.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1659&amp ;KW=eia

[quote=doberman]

You may want to refer to my earlier post on EIA's:

http://forums.registeredrep.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1659&amp ; ;KW=eia

[/quote]

What's your point? EIA's don't do as well as the S&P? Neither do CD's or bonds. So what? Did you know that CD's do better than money market rates? Did you know that small caps do better than large caps? Did you know that apples do better than oranges? I could go on and on comparing things to irrelevant things, but there's no point in it. Now, if you're assuming that EVERYBODY'S objective is to perform EXACTLY in line with the S&P, with no prinicpal protection, then you've got a very valid point.

Even though you qualify, I refuse to call you an idiot.

DD-

Your ignorance to the possibility of problems with EIA shows your time in the business. The statement you have only been selling EIA's since June tells the rest of us your tenure.

Even if there are no M&E charges (I still need to look into that one) are you slamming 75+ in this product with horrendous surrender charges. If you are making 10% what time frame does the client have to keep it in without penalty.

Does your disclosure say to the client, "IF YOU NEED THE MONEY FOR ANY REASON, EXPECT TO RECEIVE LESS, MUCH LESS BEFORE THE SURRENDER CHARGE IS ELIMINATED. I wonder if that is one reason why I see more and more clients suggesting to me that they need to take a reverse mortgage or tap other assets because the annuity that their financial salesperson (who by the way is long gone from the business or won't return a phone call) sold them can't help them support themselves for care in the home,etc.

DD. Have you noticed the difference in font size in this response? Because I am willing to bet the farm your disclosure is half the font size. Most folks don't read them and older folks can't see the small print. Hell I am in my late 40's and I can't see it sometimes.

One last thought. If you are a real financial planner, you would understand the meaning of lost opportunity cost. What is the cost for not receiving the full index rate over their lifetime. I know it doesn't matter because chances are you will be one of those brokers who moves from firm to firm or b/d to b/d finding ways to maximize your return. After all you don't need clients, just prospects who buy once.

[quote=7yrvet]

DD-

Your ignorance to the possibility of problems with EIA shows your time in the business. The statement you have only been selling EIA's since June tells the rest of us your tenure.

Even if there are no M&E charges (I still need to look into that one) are you slamming 75+ in this product with horrendous surrender charges. If you are making 10% what time frame does the client have to keep it in without penalty.

Does your disclosure say to the client, "IF YOU NEED THE MONEY FOR ANY REASON, EXPECT TO RECEIVE LESS, MUCH LESS BEFORE THE SURRENDER CHARGE IS ELIMINATED. I wonder if that is one reason why I see more and more clients suggesting to me that they need to take a reverse mortgage or tap other assets because the annuity that their financial salesperson (who by the way is long gone from the business or won't return a phone call) sold them can't help them support themselves for care in the home,etc.

DD. Have you noticed the difference in font size in this response? Because I am willing to bet the farm your disclosure is half the font size. Most folks don't read them and older folks can't see the small print. Hell I am in my late 40's and I can't see it sometimes.

One last thought. If you are a real financial planner, you would understand the meaning of lost opportunity cost. What is the cost for not receiving the full index rate over their lifetime. I know it doesn't matter because chances are you will be one of those brokers who moves from firm to firm or b/d to b/d finding ways to maximize your return. After all you don't need clients, just prospects who buy once.

[/quote]

Wow! You're an angry man. Doesn't it scare you that you can have such an emotional reaction to a bunch of words on your computer monitor?

The only thing that angers me is when naive new brokers think they have real knowledge. You, and many others like you, make it incredibly difficult for the rest of us.

I have said this before, we all are in this together. When one does something that makes the headlines it affects us all. We are in the business of trust. Perhaps you ought to rethink your strategy. It just might save your career.

Independents have so much freedom, I am not one, but I wonder how your compliance department at your b/d would feel about having your own disclosure form. Did you happen to get it approved before you started sell EIA's?

Good luck, bad habits are extremely difficult to break when you see $$$. There is a sucker born all the time. Funny thing is that you might feel that it is your paying customers who ultimately will pay the price. I would suggest you look in the mirror very closely. I am not angry, just concerned for our industry. Hope that clarifies.

[quote=7yrvet]

The only thing that angers me is when naive new brokers think they have real knowledge. You, and many others like you, make it incredibly difficult for the rest of us.

You've got me confused with someone who wants to make things easier for you. Too bad you can't compete with me.

By the way...I've been in the business since 1999, which makes me a 7yrvet.

I have said this before, we all are in this together. When one does something that makes the headlines it affects us all. We are in the business of trust. Perhaps you ought to rethink your strategy. It just might save your career.

First, we are not in this together. I'm in business for me, my family, and my clients. You don't fit into the equation. I try to take clients away from othere brokers. Do you think  I should be sitting around singing KumBayah with you? Second, my strategy is making me a lot of dough. Why would I rethink it? Finally, if people didn't trust me, I would be out of business.

Independents have so much freedom, I am not one, but I wonder how your compliance department at your b/d would feel about having your own disclosure form. Did you happen to get it approved before you started sell EIA's?

My disclosure form is an addition to the firm's disclosure form. Compliance loves it. Thanks for asking.

Good luck, bad habits are extremely difficult to break when you see $$$. There is a sucker born all the time. Funny thing is that you might feel that it is your paying customers who ultimately will pay the price. I would suggest you look in the mirror very closely. I am not angry, just concerned for our industry. Hope that clarifies.

I know what you mean. I've been reading the obituaries and crossing the names out of the phone book for 20 years. As much as I want to stop, I can't seem to quit for more than 2 or 3 days.

That was an interesting article that doberman posted on page three. There doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with them…but I bet there are many people that sell them purely for the high pay out.   Thank you all for the dialogue…Dirk thanks for offering your thoughts too.

DD-

There are no words for you but greed. You are the type of advisor that all of us (excluding you) should continue to try and weed out. No wonder you are selling high commission products.

Your own words are so prophetic;

First, we are not in this together. I'm in business for me, my family, and my clients.

[quote=7yrvet]

DD-

There are no words for you but greed. You are the type of advisor that all of us (excluding you) should continue to try and weed out. No wonder you are selling high commission products.

Your own words are so prophetic;

First, we are not in this together. I'm in business for me, my family, and my clients.

[/quote]

Son, just how are you going to weed me out? You can't even compete with me. You're jealous because your firm haircuts the crap out of high commission products, so you can't enjoy them like I do.

Personally, I believe Dirk is a phony. Either he's not in the business, at all, or he's simply studying for the 7. Because he has nothing to offer me, in the way of intelligent discussion or debate (besides lacing his replies with the word "retarded"), I will no longer give him any response.

However, if he really is a broker, his tenure in this business will be shortlived and will, no doubt, end very, very badly for him. Of course, that's after it will have ended very, very badly for his clients.

I'd have to agree, wait for it......

I think Dirk is a rookie, 6 months in and is someones phone bitck.  He has trouble getting along with others so he comes on here pretending to be a big shot arrogant prick when in all reality he is a lil' girl.  Suckin' up to daddy or Uncle Ray in hopes one day they will pass along the book so Dirk can provide for his boyfriend, I mean wife.  His screen name is probably who he fantasizes to be or be with...

[quote=doberman]

Personally, I believe Dirk is a phony. Either he's not in the business, at all, or he's simply studying for the 7. Because he has nothing to offer me, in the way of intelligent discussion or debate (besides lacing his replies with the word "retarded"), I will no longer give him any response.

However, if he really is a broker, his tenure in this business will be shortlived and will, no doubt, end very, very badly for him. Of course, that's after it will have ended very, very badly for his clients.

[/quote]

Thanks for the attention. I would probably say the same thing if I had brought a knife to a gunfight, like you did.