EJ Changes Below Expectation Rules
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[quote=Moraen]How OLD are you? 20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military? I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man. You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.
Mid 40’s…and yes…the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i’m afraid!)…thank goodness! I’m sure all of us…haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories!
I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin’s posts prior to his independence…and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy…but i’ve seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do…the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content.
I haven’t read many of your posts…what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are? [/quote]
HKA - not to be a bastard, but I had a rant of 25 things I hate about Jones. Much of those things happened to me or someone I was close to.
Good luck at Jones. Glad you like the Kool-Aid, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=Hey Kool-Aid] [quote=Moraen]How OLD are you? 20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military? I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man. You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.[/quote]
Mid 40's..and yes..the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i'm afraid!)...thank goodness! I'm sure all of us...haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories!
I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin's posts prior to his independence...and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy...but i've seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do...the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content.
I haven't read many of your posts....what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are? [/quote]
HKA - not to be a bastard, but I had a rant of 25 things I hate about Jones. Much of those things happened to me or someone I was close to.
Good luck at Jones. Glad you like the Kool-Aid, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.[/quote] Moraen - I read the 25 things post...it was actually pretty funny. I have heard/witnessed/experienced lots of things that go on here...good & bad...but I come from the Banking Industry (not broker side)...and there is so much more BS there than at Jones...regardless of what gets said on this thread, other than certain SEC stuff, they never force us to sell anything we don't want to sell...in reality they don't push anything on us either. They certainly make suggestions i.e. "A" shares etc... For example...obviously Amer Funds is the big EDJ seller, but it is actually in my best interest to use another fund family and get my trail immediately instead of having to wait 12 months from account funding. I do use some Amer Funds and lots of other things too...but I use them because I like many of the funds and the service they give is better than the others (even when they know that they will get most of the business anyway)...they did disappoint this time around, as did most, so I am broadening my horizons and looking at many other families and investments in general.
So, when we had low hurdles, low account averages, and no fee-based, we were wrong. Now we start fixing those things and......we're again, wrong.Its funny how Jones raised the bar from 14K to 18K when the market was good. They needed more revenue back then so they must really be in a pickle now. They blamed it on inflation or something. Thats comical. I thougts more assets and revenue (quantity,volume) would keep you up w/ inflation. That last increase is a HUGE increase. That tells me they REALLY needed it. Then they force FEE based accounts on everyone. Sorry but the Jones philosphy doesn’t support this type of account management. I guess they just need the fees.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] HKA,
Ummmmm.... I don't think I've ever predicted the death of Jones. Oh, wait.... nope.[/quote] So you predict the future and you are telepathic? Did not see your name anywhere in my post.
[quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=Moraen] [quote=Hey Kool-Aid] [quote=Moraen]How OLD are you? 20 years financial world, 20 years Corporate America… what’s next 20 years in the military? I know, I’m sorry the 20 years in the financial world are the same as Corporate. Just messing with you man. You seem like a good guy Kool-aid. Just jerking your chain. And I think it was unfair to characterize noggin as a hater… like me.[/quote]
Mid 40's..and yes..the 20 years in financial and corporate are the same 20 years (no military experience i'm afraid!)...thank goodness! I'm sure all of us...haters and otherwise, could sit and have a few beers and laugh and trade lots of warstories!
I have been on this forum long enough to have read Noggin's posts prior to his independence...and ever since he has been a hater in my opinion. He may be a nice guy...but i've seen quite a few rants that remind my of political discussions where no matter what the republicans do...the dems call them idiots and vice versa, regardless of the content.
I haven't read many of your posts....what was your experience that made you the bitter hater that you are? [/quote]
HKA - not to be a bastard, but I had a rant of 25 things I hate about Jones. Much of those things happened to me or someone I was close to.
Good luck at Jones. Glad you like the Kool-Aid, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.[/quote] Moraen - I read the 25 things post...it was actually pretty funny. I have heard/witnessed/experienced lots of things that go on here...good & bad...but I come from the Banking Industry (not broker side)...and there is so much more BS there than at Jones...regardless of what gets said on this thread, other than certain SEC stuff, they never force us to sell anything we don't want to sell...in reality they don't push anything on us either. They certainly make suggestions i.e. "A" shares etc... For example...obviously Amer Funds is the big EDJ seller, but it is actually in my best interest to use another fund family and get my trail immediately instead of having to wait 12 months from account funding. I do use some Amer Funds and lots of other things too...but I use them because I like many of the funds and the service they give is better than the others (even when they know that they will get most of the business anyway)...they did disappoint this time around, as did most, so I am broadening my horizons and looking at many other families and investments in general. [/quote]
So I guess you didn't listen to that little talk about financial incentives. Seriously, my last post was about the empathy I feel from my brother and sisters who are still with EDJ. In this day and time, I certainly would not want to be an employee subject to the whims of my employer. I have lived up to the agreement i signed with Jones and have just a few more days until all the hooks are out of my flesh. I am pleased with my decision and have been for quite some time. Obviously you are pleased with your decision and I hope that continues.
Ask yourself this one question, Why are GP returns never readily available to the employees of Edward Jones like the LP returns are?
[quote=ytrewq] [quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] HKA,
So you predict the future and you are telepathic? Did not see your name anywhere in my post.[/quote]
I believe you were commenting on my name “Moraen” and turning it into Moron. In fact, that is the reason I took the name - I was a moron for ever being at Edward Jones - I like to poke fun at myself too.
If you weren’t talking about me - my bad.
I agree with B24 that nobody seems to be happy with anything Jones does. One conversation is negative on how many people they're letting go because of goals, the next is bashing because they lowered the goals requirements. One conversation (actually many) is about Jones being a second rate company because they didn't have a fee based account options. The next one is negative that Jones "forced" fee based accounts on everyone. I'm not sure what world you folks live it, but it's just not possible that EVERYTHING a company does is negative. Of course at the same time, it's not possible that everything is good either. But, I am never suprised that you anti-Jones folks can spin anything Jones does for the sake of your own arguement. itg - your assumptions about the fee based accounts are misinformed. There was no "forcing" of fee based accounts on anyone. They simply made it an option. It's an option that Jones would love for us to adopt because of the recurring revenue, but they're not forcing anyone to use it. This is the kind of crap statement that drives guys like me crazy. You took something that was a positive for a lot of clients and turned it into something that Jones did for a selfish reason. Isn't it possible that something like the fee based accounts could be a positive for both the client and Jones and the advisor? And I would argue that the Jones philosophy does support the fee based account. Today. Maybe not when you were here, but today it absolutely does. I don't feel like arguing the point here, but I'll leave it with if you haven't been around Jones in the last 2 years, you really don't know what you're talking about anymore. They raised the minimum bar to a level that better reflected the reality of running a profitable office these days. Used to be if you could make $20K a month you were able to get a bonus of some kind. Today, I don't even break even until I hit about $21K a month. Rent, utilities, paper, BOA pay and benes, etc all add up. When rent was $500 a month and BOAs made $12K a year maybe the $14K number was adequate. Not any longer. It had nothing to do with revenue, other than the reality of where we were. The only downside is that they waited so long to make the change.Its funny how Jones raised the bar from 14K to 18K when the market was good. They needed more revenue back then so they must really be in a pickle now. They blamed it on inflation or something. Thats comical. I thougts more assets and revenue (quantity,volume) would keep you up w/ inflation. That last increase is a HUGE increase. That tells me they REALLY needed it. Then they force FEE based accounts on everyone. Sorry but the Jones philosphy doesn’t support this type of account management. I guess they just need the fees.
Spiff, as far as forcing the fee based accounts. I meant they made everyone get licensed whether you wanted to or not. Also you don’t wake up one day and say “hey everyone, guess what, our branches aren’t profitable at 14K.” “What, I never thought to even look.” Either you make $ at 14K or you don’t. How could you not know for so long. If you realize you don’t then you raise it to 15K or whatever. Something happened to cause such a drastic increase. I’m not stupid. Maybe it was the lawsuit but don’t say you woke up one day and realized the high number better reflects the reality of running a profitable office. Although that is a smooth spin on it.
I forget they made everyone get licensed. I’m in MO, we don’t have to have the S66 to do fee based. Yet. However, FAs still don’t have to USE fee based. Let’s at least agree on that.
Think what you will, revenue, costs, greed, fear, whatever, the reality is that Jones doesn't make changes to the rules all that often as far as commissions and expectations go. It was a big jump, that's for sure. And I'm sure it made more money for Jones. Those folks who used to fly under the radar screen for years at $16-17K gross had to figure out a way to get to $18K to stay off the radar screen in the future. There weren't that many people out there that were like that, but I'm sure it did make some of them bump up their production. Overall, I'm not sure it was a big boost to the revenue stream. At the end of the day it's a tracking number. Raising that bar did little to the firm other than maybe cost them some extra expenses for all the work they now had to do with some of those people just squeaking by. Those folks instantly became below expectations people. That means some additional man hours from HQ and the field to help get those folks up to meeting again. Look, I know that every move Jones makes isn't for the complete benefit of the advisor or the clients. Sometimes they have to do things that help the firm stay profitable. You can't fault them for that. Whatever the reasoning they use. There is too much at stake for the partners, both general and limited, in addition to the employees to just let things go forever. I don't think for a second that the GPs woke up one day and said, huh, let's change the numbers just for fun. I'm sure they knew for a while that the $14K number was out of touch with reality. Whatever the catalyst was, it did need to be updated.[quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] [quote=Moraen] [quote=ytrewq] HKA,
So you predict the future and you are telepathic? Did not see your name anywhere in my post.[/quote]
I believe you were commenting on my name "Moraen" and turning it into Moron. In fact, that is the reason I took the name - I was a moron for ever being at Edward Jones - I like to poke fun at myself too.
If you weren't talking about me - my bad.[/quote] Actually you are right. My mistake. When I read my own post closer I realized I did make a play on your name. Sorry for calling you out on that.
I left Edward Jones after three years.
My best year at Edward Jones was a bit better than $50k. My first year independent I made about $150k. Last year I made $257k. Any Jones rep who is fired should bless the day they walk out the door. You should expect to be sued if you leave. Jones may say they've never lost a lawsuit. What they don't tell you is how much they settle and for what amount. It's amazing to me that in a business where we have to think about the bottom line that anyone, except the Region Leaders or staff/support wonks, stays at Jones.Now this really pisses me off. How about the people that were let go at the end of last year. What about the Seg. 2 or 3’s that lost there job at the end of 2008. So, now they change the standards. I think its great for the existing people but really sucks for those who recently fell victim to the “goals program”. I think I am getting a bit bitter with EDJ.
Personally, I think this was another move by Weddle to try and improve the performance in the field. I think if Weddle didn't get put in charge, you would still have 10 year guys doing 15K per month without having to answer to anyone. I don't know about you, but if I wanted to put an office in XYZ town, and the guy who's had his fat a$$ in the chair for 12 years can't pull out a profitable month, and we as a company are leaving tons of assets and revenue on the table because this guy is coasting and content making 80K a year, THAT leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Yes, it seems arbitrary to go from 14 to 18K. I think if Weddle had been in charge for eyars, you would have seen gradual increases over time. But I think 14K was the "defacto" standard for so long that they jsut never addressed it. Once they did address it, they decided that the number should be based on an average profitable office. I can tell you 18K is profitable in some offices, and not others, so that seems about right. I mean, seriously, can any firm really accept someone out 5 years or more doing 168K per year?? That's just plain stupid. With trails, a few trades, and a few new assets every month, you should have no problem hitting 18K every month. It's just that a lot of FA's at Jones get this "minimum" mindset, and as long as they can get by at the minimum, they don't bother trying anymore, and their business just dies.Spiff, as far as forcing the fee based accounts. I meant they made everyone get licensed whether you wanted to or not. Also you don’t wake up one day and say “hey everyone, guess what, our branches aren’t profitable at 14K.” “What, I never thought to even look.” Either you make $ at 14K or you don’t. How could you not know for so long. If you realize you don’t then you raise it to 15K or whatever. Something happened to cause such a drastic increase. I’m not stupid. Maybe it was the lawsuit but don’t say you woke up one day and realized the high number better reflects the reality of running a profitable office. Although that is a smooth spin on it.
FYI newbies and soon-to-be newbies: Assuming a Jones FA averages 2.5% on trades over the course of a month (and that may be a tad generous), grossing $18,000 requires that $720,000 in new money be invested that month.
The next month, for all intents and purposes, you start over hunting another $720,000. Spiff is apparently knocking it out of the park; $18k gross is a really good month for me these days.BB, let’s not forget, 18K is not the minimum until about 5 years in. It is lower up until then. By the time you get to 5 years, you should have at least 10-12K in trails, fees, automatic investments, maturing/called bonds/CD’s, insurance, etc. per month. So it’s not as if you are looking for 18K from a zero base. If you find 8-10K of new-money commissions each month, you’re really looking at more like 350-400K, or less than $5mm per year. If you can’t bring in $5mm per year in new assets, you probably shouldn’t be in this business. And as you accumulate more clients and more assets, the work it takes to get to the minimum each month is minimal.
After you've been in the business several years, you really have to dismiss the "starting from zero every month" mentality. Imagine starting a fee-based business from zero. You wouldn't eat for years unless you had a salary or a huge network to explode into. It's really no different at any firm the first several years.We have several 10+ year vets in our region who are currently well below standard.
And they were rockstars when I joined the firm a few years go. Scary stuff...[quote=Borker Boy]
FYI newbies and soon-to-be newbies: Assuming a Jones FA averages 2.5% on trades over the course of a month (and that may be a tad generous), grossing $18,000 requires that $720,000 in new money be invested that month.
The next month, for all intents and purposes, you start over hunting another $720,000. Spiff is apparently knocking it out of the park; $18k gross is a really good month for me these days. [/quote] First, I'm not knocking it out of the park. I'm surviving, adding new assets, and trying to keep my family from becoming one of the recipients of Obama's new tax benefits. I've been more active with new prospects recently, which has turned into a pretty decent increase in my gross. Will probably put my second best month ever on the board this month if all things align correctly. It'll be close anyway. Second, if the only biz you are doing is new biz, then you are correct. Trails, insurance, LTC, DCA, etc all come into play. So, I'm not doing $18k in new transactions. I have some stocks that trade, bonds that come due, LTC premiums that get paid, Moneyguard, LI premiums, plus my trails. I may only do $10K in new business transactions, which could be as little as $250K coming in. It all depends. I'd LOVE to bring in $750K a month consistently. $9 mil a year is a really healthy clip. In any market, let alone this one. I'm working on getting my Advisory Solutions assets up to about $10 mil. So that I don't have to do so much new business. Only $9 mil to go!!I have seen the same thing. You ask them about their business, and they are the ones that built their business on stocks, bonds, and CD’s. Right now they aren’t collecting any fees or trails, and nobody wants to buy OR sell. That’s why most of my business is funds. Most of my individual securities are muni’s and CD’s (typically only substitutes for cash).
I do not think it's right that advisors should work for free. I find the "commissioned" stock and bond model ludicrous unless you have some way .