Edward Jones-Pushing Advisory & Performance
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The figures came from the GP at our Summer Regional (told over dinner). Told us over 90% is old money. My “BS opinion”? Grow up. I’m assuming you are under 30.
Put down the Kool Aid if you think Jones is trying to "change" and "adjust" to the future. They've uncovered a new income stream. Don't worry - I used to buy into everything they did as well ... you'll outgrow it.[quote=SayNo2KoolAid]Well I certainly DO have a problem with the mass conversion of existing accounts to AS. I’ve been with Jones over 10 years, and I’ve heard almost 10 years of lectures of how “evil” these accounts are. Now that Weddle thinks of it, they’re suddenly great? We used to be trained how to sell AGAINST these things.
So did all the vets who are now converting existing accounts feel like they were selling inferior products back then? Were they too stupid to understand other firms' wrap products at the time? If they are so great, then why is almost every penny going in these things OLD MONEY?????[/quote] I haven't been around quite as long as you but I do see the fallacy in using one fund family for 75% of your mutual fund business. That may not be you, but that is the firm average. Try this simple exercise. Go back and look at the Barron's rankings of mutual fund families. They have been doing this report since 1996 so we have some a short term history. While their method may not be perfect it certainly gives us a good idea of how the fortunes of mutual fund companies rise and fall. Specifically look at the 5 & 10 year rankings. There are a couple that are still in the top 10 that were in that place then....but only a handful. Ten years from now...who knows? Maybe these vets are seeing that the advisory program offers very, very few of the "preferred funds". Maybe they are seeing that large cap value underperformed mid cap and small cap last year. Maybe they are wanting to offer a higher level of diversity to their clients. Maybe their position resembles that of John Maynard Keynes. "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" I have no problem in converting current clients if this program is right for them. I do have a problem in using A-shares now and converting them later. The only group that can afford to really put new money into this platform are the vets that can get 20-30k into it from current money pretty quick and then not worry about the commission from new money because their month will be ok. The main issue that I have is that Jones expects our production to stay up but they want us to use this as well. I feel like walking into Weddle's office and yelling at the top of my freakin lungs "WTF are you thinking!!!"In volt’s defense, I think he is over 30.
However, the vets who are converting their books to AS are a big problem. The reason is as others have pointed out. Where were these vets two years ago? Answer: They were saying wrap programs were all bad.
And now that Jones has one - well it must be great because Jones designed it!
Give me a break. Look. I no longer have hate-filled Jonesitis, but you have to look at it clearly. If A-shares are the best two years ago, what’s changed?
Jones will tell you nothing right? It’s never “different”. Except when they want to make an extra buck.
And you didn’t answer my question …
Why are they great now, but were evil 3 years ago? If they are so great, why isn't the new money going in them? Over 90% is very telling .. WHY IS IT NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR NEW MONEY?[quote=broker4hire] [quote=SayNo2KoolAid]Well I certainly DO have a problem with the mass conversion of existing accounts to AS. I’ve been with Jones over 10 years, and I’ve heard almost 10 years of lectures of how “evil” these accounts are. Now that Weddle thinks of it, they’re suddenly great? We used to be trained how to sell AGAINST these things.
So did all the vets who are now converting existing accounts feel like they were selling inferior products back then? Were they too stupid to understand other firms’ wrap products at the time? If they are so great, then why is almost every penny going in these things OLD MONEY???[/quote]
I haven’t been around quite as long as you but I do see the fallacy in using one fund family for 75% of your mutual fund business. That may not be you, but that is the firm average.
Try this simple exercise. Go back and look at the Barron’s rankings of mutual fund families. They have been doing this report since 1996 so we have some a short term history. While their method may not be perfect it certainly gives us a good idea of how the fortunes of mutual fund companies rise and fall. Specifically look at the 5 & 10 year rankings. There are a couple that are still in the top 10 that were in that place then…but only a handful. Ten years from now…who knows?
Maybe these vets are seeing that the advisory program offers very, very few of the “preferred funds”. Maybe they are seeing that large cap value underperformed mid cap and small cap last year. Maybe they are wanting to offer a higher level of diversity to their clients. Maybe their position resembles that of John Maynard Keynes. “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
I have no problem in converting current clients if this program is right for them. I do have a problem in using A-shares now and converting them later.
The only group that can afford to really put new money into this platform are the vets that can get 20-30k into it from current money pretty quick and then not worry about the commission from new money because their month will be ok.
The main issue that I have is that Jones expects our production to stay up but they want us to use this as well. I feel like walking into Weddle’s office and yelling at the top of my freakin lungs “WTF are you thinking!!!”[/quote]
What facts have changed? And I don’t understand how you can be a Keynsian at Jones. You might get fired for that.
Thats a great question. I'm glad you asked.
(1)Three years ago we did not have it available. (2)My new money IS going into it. (thus the 16k months) (3)See #2[quote=broker4hire]
Thats a great question. I’m glad you asked.
(1)Three years ago we did not have it available.
(2)My new money IS going into it. (thus the 16k months)
(3)See #2 [/quote]
Ah, so we get to it. They were evil three years ago because JONES did not have them. Now it all makes sense!
I’M NOT SAYING WRAP ACCOUNTS ARE BAD.
I'm just saying that when it's nearly all old money, you have to be blind not to see what's happening. If this product is appropriate for old money it's appropriate for new money. If we are barely using it for new money (when it IS great for old money), then we are putting our new clients into an inferior product to earn a much larger commission, and we should be ashamed. But if we are doing the right thing for our new clients by putting them in A shares, then we are churning our older clients, and we should also be ashamed. We can't have this both ways.What facts have changed? And I don't understand how you can be a Keynsian at Jones. You might get fired for that.[/quote] The only fact that I can see that has changed is that we are told from day one to use the preferred funds. Now with vast knowledge and wealth of experience I realize that a .25% trail is not enough. I want at least 1.25%. That appears to be the only answer that many "haters" will believe. So there it is. As to being a Keynsian. The last time I brought up the word Keynsian at a meeting someone told me to delete those emails....it was a scam.
[/quote] What facts have changed? And I don’t understand how you can be a Keynsian at Jones. You might get fired for that.
The only fact that I can see that has changed is that we are told from day one to use the preferred funds. Now with vast knowledge and wealth of experience I realize that a .25% trail is not enough. I want at least 1.25%. That appears to be the only answer that many “haters” will believe. So there it is.
As to being a Keynsian. The last time I brought up the word Keynsian at a meeting someone told me to delete those emails…it was a scam. [/quote]
Not hating, but Jones has been doing this quite a while, and a lot of vets have been doing it a while too. Before I left, they were talking about AS. My regional leader at the time talked about how he was going to take his $270 million and put it all in AS. Nice pay day, but what the hell?
[quote=SayNo2KoolAid]The figures came from the GP at our Summer Regional (told over dinner). Told us over 90% is old money. My “BS opinion”? Grow up. I’m assuming you are under 30.
Put down the Kool Aid if you think Jones is trying to "change" and "adjust" to the future. They've uncovered a new income stream. Don't worry - I used to buy into everything they did as well ... you'll outgrow it.[/quote]I'm over 30, not a kool-aid drinker, and I'm not going to stand by and watch people pass their "opinions" off as facts. So bust out those real figures buddy.
Best part about this argument is if Jones didn't have Advisory Solutions you same clowns would be bitching about us not have a fee based product.
Those were as specific as I was given. Didn’t ask him for $$ amounts (didn’t care). Call the AS team in St. Louis tomorrow and ask them!
Funny - I didn't "bitch" about not having a fee based product for the past 13 years! And if you are really over 30, try corresponding like one. "FU" and "horsesh*t" comments make you sound like a teenager. As I previously stated, you'll tire of Kool Aid and grow up one day.Here’s an example of something I heard before I left. “We still believe A-shares are in the best interest of our clients, Advisory Solutions is another arrow in our quiver”.
And volt - the same people defending AS and saying it was a good thing, were the same people talking about how bad they were for clients. “Wrap” was always said in a derisive and condescending tone, as if it were the worst thing possible for a client. We all learned to sell against it.
You weren’t there at the time, so I’m not sure you have a frame of reference as to what some of the vets were talking about.
[
You weren’t there at the time, so I’m not sure you have a frame of reference as to what some of the vets were talking about.[/quote]
[quote=AGEMAN]
So that is the only fee based platform Jones has is one mutual fund platform. Do they allow you to choose the funds, or is it only company models??[/quote]
I don't want to sound condescending, but how does this program make the advisor any different than a 401(k) rep visiting an employer, meeting w/the employees for 10 minutes each and doing a risk questionnaire before determining "Employee A, you're risk tolerance appears to be Moderately Aggressive. Therefore, you should invest in the Moderately Aggressive model within the company-selected funds."[quote=broker4hire]
Thats a great question. I'm glad you asked.
(1)Three years ago we did not have it available. (2)My new money IS going into it. (thus the 16k months) (3)See #2[/quote] broker4, Nice Hamburger bud! Hahah[quote=Moraen]
You weren’t there at the time, so I’m not sure you have a frame of reference as to what some of the vets were talking about.[/quote]
I certainly do. I have ears, they have voices. We’ve used both to
discuss this.
We can use this exact logic for all the ex-Jones posters
going forward if you’d like. They have NO FRAME of reference to make
any comment on what the firm is currently doing, which includes you SOOOOOOOO, I think all Non-Jones employees should not post anything about this going forward. Fair?
[quote=voltmoie]
[quote=Moraen]
You weren’t there at the time, so I’m not sure you have a frame of reference as to what some of the vets were talking about.[/quote]I certainly do. I have ears, they have voices. We’ve used both to
discuss this. We can use this exact logic for all the ex-Jones posters
going forward if you’d like. They have NO FRAME of reference to make
any comment on what the firm is currently doing, which includes you SOOOOOOOO, I think all Non-Jones employees should not post anything about this going forward. Fair?[/quote]
Actually, that is fair. However, because I was there I have a frame of reference when you guys talk about what is going on now.
For instance, if you say all of the sudden that you guys have started using financial planning software based off of MoneyGuidePro, I can understand that and say, “Wow, because that Sungard crap was garbage, they must really be putting the advisors first here.”.
Because you don’t actually know what it was like BEFORE, and didn’t experience it, you can’t. I can talk about what it was like before compared to what current Jones people talk about. And by the way, you’ll never hear me say, “I talked to a buddy I have at Jones (I only have one left) and he told me blah blah blah”. I will say, “Volt, if that’s what they are doing then that is blah blah blah”. And if nothing has changed, then I can also comment on that.
Since you don’t know what it was like BEFORE AS was implemented (read: You’ve always had it available), then you can’t comment on what it was like before.
I was there before and after it was implemented. Has it changed? You bet. That’s why I always ask questions like, “Hey LockEDJ, is that including all mutual fund expenses as well?”.
Just sayin’.
Your right, i did go through the same process of converting to fee based.
(excpect Tawne Katane was on the hood of a car in that White Snake video and Doug Plank was playing Safety for the Bears ).
A fee base based advisory business is the only way to do the right thing for people all the time and leverage your time to get off always having to get new business constantly every freaking month
Sure its ok to convert as long as there are no monster cap gains.
The BEST way to run your advisory business is through a wrap fee that you run your self. (gpm, pim,pmp, pia whatever).
Your firm is in a time warp. seriously
[quote=Moraen] …
Lock - I agree with a lot of what you say, but I personally don’t think that AS is such a good plan. You say it’s cheap, but all-in it’s still pretty expensive. Plus, the models are flawed (at least when I was there).
…[/quote]
I’m not all the way out of Jones, but my looking tells me that to get a solution with the due diligence of third parties gets to be pretty darn expensive. We can present ours anywhere from 1.35 to 70 bps. I look at the costs of working with someone like Lockwood or a SMA and think woosh, that’s a whole lotta bps. If you want someone to manage money for you for around 1.25% and the FA is outsourcing it … well, I dunno.
Could it be better? Perhaps but I don’t think so within the framework of Jones. After all, how can you introduce alternative investments into the AS world and not make them available in some form outside AS? Insofar as liability goes, one of the FAs has pointed out that we’ve moved to a point now where the Jones FA is at greater risk than before. Interesting ideas.
Tired. Happy both the Bills and Jets won today.
G’nite,
Alex