Edward Jones' Incentive Trips
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It’s all about planning - I work at Jones and really as long as your producing and you go to their “required” meetings (summer regional, etc.) you can leave when you want. I’m probably not producing what I could be, but when I’m at work, I don’t spend my time reading the registered rep forums:). I bust my ass and work my tail off.
My clients comment on it occasionally - but I make sure I give them enough TLC before I leave that it’s never negative. Plus, I’ve built my book on former and current military families that live around the world. Only a small percentage of my clients even live in the state I live in. The important ones have my phone number - and some of the places we’ve gone (Germany, Austrailia) they are stationed.
Pushing credit cards was a problem for me also, but to make the matter worse, I then found out that Jones sells MBIA or whoever the current card issuer is, my client information. They then solicted my clients and I was out of the loop, but I was expected to service these card by assisting the client with any issues they had. No compensation except maybe a P&L credit(not sure about that) which was no value to a new broker.
So do you think they might switch or at least add Debit Cards to that list? I’d feel much better recommending a client get a debit card for access to his or her cash in a money market than I would recommending they get a credit card, knowing it’s a tool for accumulating debt rather than wealth (not good financial advice from a FA it seems).
It has only been very recent that EDJ allowed reps to be called FA’s. That is because they aren’t really FA’s. They are IR’s, and that was a strategic legal issue, as an IR you are operating under a buyer beware situation. Putting yourself out as an FA creates the potential to be seen as a Fiduciary, that is something EDJ is scared of. So don’t worry about giving good or bad advice as an FA, you really are an IR in their cataract covered eyes.
I think Jones perspective with the credit card is that everybody has one, why not a Jones one? The fact of the matter is it’s not that great of a card.
I had a client get turned down for one the other day. He has about $1mil in liquid assets and they turned him down because he hasn’t used a credit card in 20 years. And Jones was less than helpful getting it for him.
Anyway, that’s their story and they are sticking to it - "everybody uses a credit card - it should be an Edward Jones cc - and diversification points for you and a benefit for your BOA, wow!"
Sounds unethical to me.
Magician, that is a very good point, I had the same thing happen to me, and almost lost a good client. I spent alot of time in phone calls to resolve the situation, and all of it was for no measurable gain for me. Odds are better of losing a client, than geting or keeping one when credit cards are involved. It is obvious why they push them, but as far as I was concerned they shuold be available and not be pushed. When I was there they even printed an application with every new account. The most serious issue I had was the direct mail solititation after I told the client that their info was private. Of course they got around that by disclosing on the account agreement that vendors may have access. Most people assumed that it was necessary vendors such as record keeping etc.
Is it possible to go on the trip without ever pushing a credit card on anyone? Can you make up for not doing that by doing more or something else?
I’ve got one better.
Some guy actually says when he opens a new account, “Your Edward Jones account comes with a credit card” and when he’s filling out the app, he gets the maiden name.
Not sure on the ethics of that one either.
[quote=IsOldSpiceRightForMe]Is it possible to go on the trip without ever pushing a credit card on anyone? Can you make up for not doing that by doing more or something else?[/quote]Yes you can…all you have to do is hit four categories…Taxable Income, Non-Taxable Income, Growth & Income, Growth, Aggressive, CFO, or Credit Cards. Successful FAs dont have to worry about hitting the categories because their production is high enough and diversified enough to hit at least 5 with out credit cards.
I think its funny how everyone is crying about offering Credit Cards…no one is putting a gun to your head saying you have to sell them or your out plus the requirement to hit the “trip” category is like 2-3 a month, big deal. And believe it or not credit cards can be a good way to get a 30 interest free loan. If your a good advisor you should be able to explain this to a client. And its only unethical if you dont disclose the card details. If your pushing through applications without informing the client thats a whole different ball of wax.
LPL’s qualification for their annual Master’s trip for last yr is $450K. They don’t care if it’s 100% Growth, or G&I, or insurance or fee based, or all stock. They don’t care, just gross over $450. Just don’t push “Aggressive” to your 70 yr old clients just to qualify for a trip.
I remember back in the 90's, I had to figure a way to sell $___ of fixed income or loans or whatever in order to qualify for a trip. Magician: If you were w/ LPL, you could still take those trips to Germany, Australia, or whereever, & as a REAL business owner (1099), you could deduct most of the trip as a business expense, since you're seeing your clients while traveling there. Not sure you can do that as a W-2 employee at Jones.WestH - that’s why my time with Jones is short. Not just because of the trips, but for a lot of the other reasons people have re-hashed on here. Great place to start… yadda yadda… kool-aid…stupid meetings… taking all of my production and not getting much back…not being an actual business owner…
I spoke with my accountant though, and she told me that lift tickets are non-deductible
I'm glad I'm not the only voice on here as more and more and more and more Jones people open their eyes....makes me feel good. Magician, I thought my wife and I took some great trips..but woooww.......WAGES WILL MAKE YOU A LIVING....PROFITS WILL MAKE YOU A FORTUNE....GO INDY....
Funny that all of you people who are mouthing off about “pushing” credit cards and “pushing” aggressive to 70 year old clients had to worry about things like that. If you just simply DO YOUR JOB you don’t really have to worry about the categories that much.
The way it works in my office is pretty simple. Clients have 3 basic parts to their portfolio - Income, Growth and Income, Growth (which may or may not mean aggressive growth). Just by doing what I normally do I'll qualify for 3 categories without even thinking about it. I usually hit the non taxable income pretty easily too. Munis, fixed annuities (a rare thing for me), some balanced funds, portions of my VA business all hit that category. If you are doing any LTC or LI biz that category is pretty easy to hit too. So, you never really have to worry about pushing credit cards or the CFO or even hiring someone to fill the categories. Just do what you are supposed to. Spears, what's the fundamental difference between the LPL trips (gotta do $450K to qualify) and the Jones trips? What makes the Jones trips a bogus incentive and not the LPL trips? Perhaps I'm missing something that I need clarification on.When you force someone to sell something (category) to win something(trip), it causes conflict. Hey, get off my ass…this thread has been hijacked by Jones people…
Sorry. You made the comment. I’ve never felt forced to sell anything at Jones, but maybe that’s just me.
And CIB hijacked the thread. Not Jones people.The thread was a question directed at Jones people, if it's been hijacked by anybody it's been hijacked by the "Jone's haters."this thread has been hijacked by Jones people…
Okay…you’re right…damn the jones hater’s…You never did answer my question about telling your clients about the investments you sell them filling a category for the trip…well…don’t you think they should know…just like revenue sharing…that this particular investment not only pays you in the rears…it also qualifies me in winning a trip for my family and I to go on…that you, dear client, get to pay for…and, of course, this doesn’t persuade me in anyway to my recommendations…cause see…I have this wonderful bar chart that shows you need some of this anyways…
I see what you’re saying, but unless a FA puts a client into something just to qualify for a trip when there’s a better option for the client available, I don’t think there’s any issue.
Would it really be any different than you saying, "Client, thank you for your business, a fraction of the money you've given me is going to be used to pay my mortgage, take my wife out to dinner, and by tickets to the game next week."
I would wager to guess that the vast majority of advisors make no consideration of “categories” when investing money. Yes, there are the knuckleheads out there (as there are at every firm that do knucklehead things for other reasons) that base decisions on trips or whatever. But I have never actually heard a discussion about it among people I have talked to at Jones. Again, I know it happens, but you guys seem to paint with a rather broad brush.
And although I think the CC category is a little lame, we are a financial services firm. We are a for-profit business, that is in the business of providing financial services. As such, like a bank or other B/D, it is our job to sell financial services and products. Incenting us to do it should not be seen as unethical. That's how the industry works. All of us are "incented" to sell investments. Is that any less "ethical" than providing a financial service?? I for one never "sell" credit cards. I have about 10 cards in my branch - I always mention it, but most of my clients already have credit cards that suit their needs, thus don't need another. I do utilize CFO accounts for several people, as they can be cost effective and take the "pain" out of charging for various services. But to me it only makes sense if they have a real need for multiple services (IRA's, bill pay, div reinvest, etc.). So I guess the categories leave a little to be desired for the contests. But I think Jones' intentions are in the right place. If they weren't, they would just base it on production and be done with it. It is just one small way of encouraging diversification. I also don't think the trips should be listed as "compensation", but rather as a "benefit". I think the perception would improve. But nobody can argue that theay are great trips that you basically go on for a discount (the cost of taxes). But Jones certainly doesn't try to "hide" the taxes anywhere. Everyone is fully aware if it.And........that's all I have to say about that.