Spiff, I'll grant you recall the facts better than I did. ND is right...it's a question of how you determine what's fair, and Ed disagreed with his employer, so he left, which is viewed as the "right" decision by Jones historians.

I'm trying to stay factual based on the original post rather than drudge up the same old talking points. This is a talking point that doesn't seem to get airtime, but I think is valid.

I think we're talking apples to oranges here.  The facts are that Ed Jones, Sr.  got to sell the bonds, got paid on them and evidently didn't have an issue with his payout.  His beef was that he additionally got zero recognition or compensation for getting the deal going in the first place.  He thought he should have received something for those efforts.   

What you're talking about is purely a payout discussion.  Just because you can get an indy firm to give you a 90% payout, doesn't mean you are undercompensated at Jones.  It's a completely different business arrangement, therefore a completely different compensation level.  I think some folks leave Jones, or any other wirehouse or regional firm, because they see the bigger payout.  Some don't really realize that all the indy firms are doing is pushing off a lot of the work of starting and running a financial advisor office onto  your back and compensating you for it.  If you're willing to take on those responsibilities, great, you'll make more money. 

[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=now_indy][quote=onetimeuser]The only time finding a cost basis becomes an issue is when the "other decent firms" did not send the information when an account from transferred into Jones.  If we made the original sale we can find the cost basis in a matter of seconds. [/quote]

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See highlighted area.....This is going to be a requirement beginning in 2011.

I think in a lot of ways, Edward Jones was the first independent brokerage firm. Long before Linsco was a glimmer in Private Ledger's eye, Ted Jones hit upon the idea of the one broker office. One broker, one assistant, no branch manager, individual autonomy as long as the broker is hitting their numbers... no propriatary products.

Ted Jones used to famously tell the home office folks - the broker is our customer. That sounds a like the independent brokerage philosophy of today.

And back in the mid-seventies when Ted was kicking Edward D Jones into high gear, there were less brokers in America. Less than 4% of the population owned mutual funds at that time. So Jones couldn't fill its ranks by doing what LPL and the other independents do today, and wait for good advisors to get washed out of Edward  Jones and the wirehouses. There wasn't a ready made supply of pre-screened, pre-trained brokers complete with their own books ready to do a turnkey startup.

So they had to hire and train their own brokers. Jack Phelan headed the sales side of the company and he was another great man from everything i have read. And Jones became a superb selling organization, pioneering the door-door approach and introducing middle class America to mutual funds and investing.

Just my perspective on early Jones history. Jones was in many ways the first independent brokerage.

Wow what a good read...yawn. Spiff, how big of an office did you take over after smooching so much hiney in the home office all those years ago? Let me guess, 50million aum? Make a few service calls each day, and that frees you up to post 5 good ones daily. A supreme time waster. Funny thing is, the gp's are probably trying like hell to find out which branch in the stl metro area you took over so they can ixne your web browsing and get you to sell sell sell more more more.

Funniest thing is, it sounds like deep down, you want to go indy... but can't because you were given a big gift and also enjoy sipping on kool aid.

Really, what does Conestoga do?

Doug Hil was someone who was easy to talk with and comfortable to be around while Jim Weddle is someone I'd never even want to have a conversation with. He tries to say the right things but I always felt  like every word in public and private was scripted and he has always seemed to me to be a fraud.  I wish I had left Jones sooner.

Is Jones really that bad? Other than for the fact that they put new guys that took over $20mil on a pedestel, what is that bad about it?  And what makes being indy that much better? 

@who...first off you have to understand the EJ does a great job of making new 'advisors' feel that they are the only firm doing the right thing for the clients, only ethical firm, yada, yada, yada.  There comes a point when you realize that all the effort YOU have put into prospecting and building a book (realize I didn't say YOUR book) has not been rewarded compensation-wise as well as it could be as an independent (or maybe even at one of the wire houses, I don't know since I haven't worked at a wire..just ej and indy).  Yeah sure the couple trips a year to Europe or Hawaii are nice..but nothing you couldn't do yourself as an indy and get the tax write off as well if you mix in some business.  Besides, who wants to be surrounded by 50 other people sucking up to the GP parroting 'what a great firm we work for!'

Some other things to consider:

The product offerings are pretty limited as Jones brings in A BUNCH of brand new people in every year.  I have access to mutual funds and outside investments that have low corrolation to the market..they can make sense for some investors.

If you look at your P&L (or whatever they call it..I've blocked much of this from my memory in the last couple years), you will see that you pay a huge overhead to St. Louis before you even become bonus eligible.  In my practice, if I manage my costs effectively..alot more $ drops down to the bottom line.

I don't have to open a bunch of dink accounts just to hit some number that the region or St. Louis wants to see.  As an indy, I determine the type of clients I want to deal with.  My average account size is much larger as an indy.  Don't get me wrong, if someone come in with a 25k rollover check and want to invest, I'll open the account.  But I am not out actively seeking anyone with $100 and a heartbeat just to get an account open.

Trails

When it comes to retirement..MY book of business is a marketable commodity.  It is worth something out there in the marketplace.  If I want to sell it..I can price it to move, or high-ball it.  If I want to give it to someone and 'consult' part-time for a few years in transition I can do that.  The bottom line here is I have the control in what happens with my clients..not a regional leader or some gp in s.l.

As an indy, (and again maybe the wires too) I have access to alternative investments that allow me to successfully go after endowments and charitable accounts.

I have access to many platforms AND outside money managers for fee based accounts..I also can set up my own investment mix inside a fee based account with or without discretion.  Here again, I don't have to settle a handfull of  cookie cutter allocations from a gang of in st. louis. 

Here's a big difference..if you like the idea of being a business owner..(with all of its ups and downs) go indy.  Yes, you will be doing alot more than just prospecting and taking care of your clients..but that is part of the challenge.  If you like just going in..not having to worry about paying bills, hiring, quarterly tax reporting, etc, etc..stay at EJ..all of it is done for you, but at a cost.  For me, the cost was a bit too high...

@ Done - great summation. When you crunch the numbers, you leave a lot on the table at Jones. For me, ultimately the fact that I would never own my efforts, even after 20-25 years of hard work, was never something I could accept.

I don't think it's that great a summation.... Sounds pretty one sided to me.

OK Hulk, let’s hear your side…btw still laughing at the original post, lambda must have been very bored at home, with no cable tv.  just picture it, he’s holding up that red ‘edj history’ book and typing verbatim.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

I think we're talking apples to oranges here.  The facts are that Ed Jones, Sr.  got to sell the bonds, got paid on them and evidently didn't have an issue with his payout.  His beef was that he additionally got zero recognition or compensation for getting the deal going in the first place.  He thought he should have received something for those efforts.   

What you're talking about is purely a payout discussion.  Just because you can get an indy firm to give you a 90% payout, doesn't mean you are undercompensated at Jones.  It's a completely different business arrangement, therefore a completely different compensation level.  I think some folks leave Jones, or any other wirehouse or regional firm, because they see the bigger payout.  Some don't really realize that all the indy firms are doing is pushing off a lot of the work of starting and running a financial advisor office onto  your back and compensating you for it.  If you're willing to take on those responsibilities, great, you'll make more money. 

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Spiff- You actually have no idea that anything that you wrote is correct. Zero idea, You never spoke to Mr. Jones. I think this is the reason that people don't take your posts seriously. As far as the situation with Mr Jones, he started Edward Jones on the principle that the financial advisor should be the most important member of the organization. That is what we know. As far as our firm today, that certainly isnt the case.

Hey I still work for Ejones as angry as they make me sometimes I am still here. Why? It is a good deal for me and my family RIGHT NOW.

I do agree with Doggie Daddy about Doug Hill, he is a great guy. Sincerely a nice gentleman. As far as Jim Weddle goes, he is just like Barack Obama. I mean that as funny as it is, they are two in the same. Since he took over our clients pay much more in fees, our financial advisors get a lower payout and the minimum commission amount has changed and is 22% higher. I am pretty sure Ted would fire him. But I understand why he makes the decisions that he does.

Real World, you hit the nail on the head, the FA used to be the customer, sort of like the independent firms.  Now the FA is a second class citizen, and the gradual evolution toward this has not gone unnoticed.  FA’s are not dumb, at least the ones who can still think for themselves aren’t. 

[quote=Incredible Hulk]

I don't think it's that great a summation.... Sounds pretty one sided to me.

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I didn't figure YOU would. You hate everything I post. Still have a warm fuzzy for you, though. :)

[quote=Donedrinkin]

@who...first off you have to understand the EJ does a great job of making new 'advisors' feel that they are the only firm doing the right thing for the clients, only ethical firm, yada, yada, yada.  What firm in what industry doesn't spouse the greatness of the company to their new hires?  There comes a point when you realize that all the effort YOU have put into prospecting and building a book (realize I didn't say YOUR book) has not been rewarded compensation-wise as well as it could be as an independent (or maybe even at one of the wire houses, I don't know since I haven't worked at a wire..just ej and indy).  How many of us could have built their business from scratch at an indepedent with no brand to stand behind?  Yeah sure the couple trips a year to Europe or Hawaii are nice..but nothing you couldn't do yourself as an indy and get the tax write off as well if you mix in some business.  Besides, who wants to be surrounded by 50 other people sucking up to the GP parroting 'what a great firm we work for!'  I've been on roughly a dozen trips, including Hawaii and Europe.  Outside of the 2-3 hour business meeting, I don't hear any of this sucking up to GPs, now talking about how good the firm is, probably happens.  I would think it rude not to be thankful to the firm that provided my family vacation (even if taxable) again.

Some other things to consider:

The product offerings are pretty limited as Jones brings in A BUNCH of brand new people in every year.  I have access to mutual funds and outside investments that have low corrolation to the market..they can make sense for some investors.  You may be able to offer more products, which I admittedly don't like, but at least I can talk to my clients with confidence about the correlation of investments in their accounts, knowing what it means and also how to spell it.  --->  Spelling is a cheap shot, I know, but it's all I got.

If you look at your P&L (or whatever they call it..I've blocked much of this from my memory in the last couple years), you will see that you pay a huge overhead to St. Louis before you even become bonus eligible.  In my practice, if I manage my costs effectively..alot more $ drops down to the bottom line.  B24 had some great points several months or years ago about the p&l overhead.  It's irrelevant.  They could lower the overhead number to zero and lower the % payout.  I hope you didn't leave Jones because of the $5750 overhead charge.

I don't have to open a bunch of dink accounts just to hit some number that the region or St. Louis wants to see.  As an indy, I determine the type of clients I want to deal with. This business is all about production, if you are hitting your production bogey, then the account bogey is irrelevant. My average account size is much larger as an indy.I would hope that it would be, you left the small stuff behind, we call that a Goodknight here.   Don't get me wrong, if someone come in with a 25k rollover check and want to invest, I'll open the account.  But I am not out actively seeking anyone with $100 and a heartbeat just to get an account open. Me too.

Trails  I like to run on them.

When it comes to retirement..MY book of business is a marketable commodity.  It is worth something out there in the marketplace.  If I want to sell it..I can price it to move, or high-ball it.  If I want to give it to someone and 'consult' part-time for a few years in transition I can do that.  The bottom line here is I have the control in what happens with my clients..not a regional leader or some gp in s.l.   Yes you do have these options.  We have a very competitive Sunset plan.  north of 100% payout over a 3 year period with lots of guarantees.

As an indy, (and again maybe the wires too) I have access to alternative investments that allow me to successfully go after endowments and charitable accounts.  I didn't realize these were required...   Obviously a huge part of my business...

I have access to many platforms AND outside money managers for fee based accounts..I also can set up my own investment mix inside a fee based account with or without discretion.  Here again, I don't have to settle a handfull of  cookie cutter allocations from a gang of in st. louis.   I have at least a dozen hand crafted advisory accounts that I've put together from a list of a couple hundred funds/ets.  Believe it or not, the cookie cutter allocations work great for a lot of people.

Here's a big difference..if you like the idea of being a business owner..(with all of its ups and downs) go indy.  Yes, you will be doing alot more than just prospecting and taking care of your clients..but that is part of the challenge.  If you like just going in..not having to worry about paying bills, hiring, quarterly tax reporting, etc, etc..stay at EJ..all of it is done for you, but at a cost.  For me, the cost was a bit too high... 

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Feel free to tell me how naive and ignorant I am.  I'm used to it....I'm married.

i feel like a business owner. sure edward jones offers a product for a price but if i walk my non goodknight book is coming with me. that is what is great about the industry we service.

A real business owner would fire half of the GP’s, increase payout to the salesforce, and eliminate all the g@y azz programs i.e. client svc excellence, etc.

The firm does not send us on trips. Its counted as compensation so therefore we send ourselves.

[quote=JohnEdwardJones]The firm does not send us on trips. Its counted as compensation so therefore we send ourselves.[/quote]

...And the business meeting that goes with them are for the firm to be able to deduct its portion of the cost of the trip, and then pass on the rest to the employee, who gets to pay the top tax rate (bonus income) for it. How in the world anyone could compare a div trip to a tax-deductible "business" trip as an indy is beyond me.