One other thing.  If you are going to be doing 300kin gross and that is where you will be, I would NOT go to ML or SB.  Your payout will be so low "around 33%" that it doesnt make sense.  You need to get it up to 350k - 400k for it to make sense. 

Also, things just move slower at a wire.  There's channels, procedures etc. that can get frustrating for someone used to quick responsive help.  I share an SA with one other FC but there are guys at around 300k gross sharing an SA here with THREE other FCs. If they'er busy those FCs may have to wait a day or two or longer for something that you are used to getting done in one hour. 

Wires resources go to where the gross producers are dont forget that. Average assets under mgnt in my region are around 80 million and yours probably wont be much different so don't expect to be high up on the totem pole.  

[quote=NASD Advocate] [quote=wanda]

You may also have less pressure on you from a large compliance bureaucracy.

[/quote]

Do you believe that a compliance officer's job is to make the sales force's lives miserable, or to keep them out of trouble?
[/quote]

Obviously their job it the latter, often the way they do it producers the former...

“…their job IS…”

This maybe a naive question, but why do the heavy hitters who you read about in trade magazines (minimum $1 million GDC) work at wirehouses?  Do they have golden handcuffs?  Treated like royalty?  Free afternoon BJs?

[quote=Mike Damone]This maybe a naive question, but why do the heavy
hitters who you read about in trade magazines (minimum $1 million GDC)
work at wirehouses?  Do they have golden handcuffs?  Treated
like royalty?  Free afternoon BJs?[/quote]



Some have golden handcuffs, but many of them are senior enough that
they could retire–claim the gold.  Stay retired for a year or so
and come back as an "indy.“



The reality is that they cannot see the economic benefit.



The typical indy broker underestimates a lot of expenses in order to
justify leaving the safety of a wirehouse.   Generally they
settle for a cheap office (which they pretend their clients don’t
notice or care about), they do not mail as aggressively because they
have to pay their postage and buy whatever they’re going to mail, they
"watch” their long distance phone calls, they have limited or no
support (many of them have nobody helping them, perhaps a wife or
daughter a few hours a week), they have to get their own technology
(often a TV tuned to CNBC is the focal point), they convince themselves
that their clients do not notice that they wear jeans and golf shirts
because their budget won’t allow business suits, they have to pay their
own health insurance so they choose monster deductibles and opt to not
get things like dental coverage.



There is a reason why wirehouses keep so much of the gross–and that
reason is because they have to cover a lot of overhead.  It is not
all evil compliance officers and vice presidents who manage the entire
operation–it’s branches and complicated computer networks, it’s
clearing fees, it’s hundreds of Fed Ex shipments per day, it’s a very
attractive health care, it’s very attractive 401(k) matches, and on and
on.



Bob Broker, the $1 million hitter in Austin knows that he’s giving up a
lot of his gross–but when he looks at all the things that they don’t
have to pay for they simply cannot justify making the move.



Most of them will say "I’ve got a corner office in a prestige
building.  There is a receptionist to greet you if you come to see
me.  I will send one of my three sales assisstants out to show you
back to my office.



When you come in you will be struck by the view.  I’ll offer you a
seat on a $1,000 sofa and another assistant will ask if she can get you
something to drink.



They’ll also tell you that being a Vice President of Merrill Lynch
carries more prestige than being the “Owner” of "Jones Financial
Planning and Nail Salon, Ltd."



The only reason to not join a wirehouse is because you can’t get an
offer from one, and the only reason to leave one is because they’re
going to fire you at the end of the year anyway.



Yes the hurdles are high, and yes there are a lot who fail–but it’s
the major leagues where the going is always tough and the competition
is always keen.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone][quote=Mike Damone]This maybe a naive question, but why do the heavy hitters who you read about in trade magazines (minimum $1 million GDC) work at wirehouses?  Do they have golden handcuffs?  Treated like royalty?  Free afternoon BJs?[/quote]

Some have golden handcuffs, but many of them are senior enough that they could retire--claim the gold.  Stay retired for a year or so and come back as an "indy."

The reality is that they cannot see the economic benefit.  Bull.  Many can and some actually follow through and leave.  Economic benefit is not the primary reason most leave anyway...it's just kind of an icing-on-the-cake thing.

The typical indy broker underestimates a lot of expenses in order to justify leaving the safety of a wirehouse.   Generally they settle for a cheap office (which they pretend their clients don't notice or care about), they do not mail as aggressively because they have to pay their postage and buy whatever they're going to mail, they "watch" their long distance phone calls, they have limited or no support (many of them have nobody helping them, perhaps a wife or daughter a few hours a week), they have to get their own technology (often a TV tuned to CNBC is the focal point), they convince themselves that their clients do not notice that they wear jeans and golf shirts because their budget won't allow business suits, they have to pay their own health insurance so they choose monster deductibles and opt to not get things like dental coverage.  This is so far from my reality that there's no sense in responding.

There is a reason why wirehouses keep so much of the gross--and that reason is because they have to cover a lot of overhead.  It is not all evil compliance officers and vice presidents who manage the entire operation--it's branches and complicated computer networks, it's clearing fees, it's hundreds of Fed Ex shipments per day, it's a very attractive health care, it's very attractive 401(k) matches, and on and on.  The reality is that too much of the overhead goes to pay the bloated salary of the vice president of paperclips...who spends the excess time after the paperclips are ordered for the week to dispense unwanted and unsolicited advice to any office employee who makes the mistake of slowing down when they see his wake.

Bob Broker, the $1 million hitter in Austin knows that he's giving up a lot of his gross--but when he looks at all the things that they don't have to pay for they simply cannot justify making the move.  Sure they can...were you always this poor at math?

Most of them will say "I've got a corner office in a prestige building.  There is a receptionist to greet you if you come to see me.  I will send one of my three sales assisstants out to show you back to my office.

When you come in you will be struck by the view.  I'll offer you a seat on a $1,000 sofa and another assistant will ask if she can get you something to drink.  A Pepsi on a thousand dollar sofa sounds pretty cheesy to me...how long has it been since you bought any furniture?  Oh that's right...you never got promoted beyond paperclips.

They'll also tell you that being a Vice President of Merrill Lynch carries more prestige than being the "Owner" of "Jones Financial Planning and Nail Salon, Ltd."  That depends upon who you ask.  Did you tell anyone that it was vice president of paperclips?

The only reason to not join a wirehouse is because you can't get an offer from one, and the only reason to leave one is because they're going to fire you at the end of the year anyway.  Right...you just stay there in fantasyland sipping your Pepsi on your thousand dollar couch and convince yourself that people like Ron Carson are just in your imagination.

Yes the hurdles are high, and yes there are a lot who fail--but it's the major leagues where the going is always tough and the competition is always keen.  You know nothing of the major leages...you haven't produced for thirty years.
[/quote]

By the way...nice name...but it can't come soon enough for me.

Indy, did you leave a wirehouse–or are you one of those who was never offered a slot in the major leagues?

Ron Carson is an example of the exception to the rule.  For every guy who left a wirehouse there are hundreds who stayed.



None of them are fools.



Why do you think the biggest concern in the world of independent B/Ds
is how to attract quality producers instead of simply gathering bodies?

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]Indy, did you leave a wirehouse--or are you one of those who was never offered a slot in the major leagues?
[/quote]

I know you'll find this hard to believe, but I've never lived or worked any closer than 50-60 miles of a wirehouse office, and thus, I've never approached a wirehouse office about a position.  Had I wanted to work in a wirehouse office, I'm confident that I could have gotten an offer if I'd sought one.  Part of being successful is having a feel for the optimum environment for personal success and I've never felt like the wirehouse was best suited for me personally, thus I've never pursued it.  That's hardly equivalent to being turned down as you like to insinuate.

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]Ron Carson is an example of the exception to the rule.  For every guy who left a wirehouse there are hundreds who stayed.

None of them are fools.[/quote]

I'm not calling those who stay fools, but neither should you label those who leave as washouts.  I also don't believe your "For every guy who left a wirehouse there are hundreds who stayed." comment.  Prove it.  I know one thing for certain...independents sure aren't joining wirehouses, even though plenty of them could.

I had a client in yesterday 27 million if I would have a three piece suite on and asked her to sit on a $1,000 sofa she would not be my client. Clients see all that waste! And they know who is paying for it!

I do not wear jeans but if clients had to choose between a suite and jeans they would perfer I would dress in jeans. No question about it!

Please note that I am in a small CO ski town and not NY.

If I had to choose between a suite and jeans I’d choose jeans too–when you put a suite on you look so big and boxy.



I used to own a ski rental shop in Breckenridge.  I know about ski towns.

One other  note.

I would take my view of the snow capped rockies & CO blue sky, over any NY smog filled view of a sky scrapper any day!

Was Sanford and Son a sky scrapper?



As for smog.  New York City is not a smoggy place.  It’s the city so nice they named it twice.

[quote=Indyone]I know one thing for certain…independents sure aren’t joining wirehouses, even though plenty of them could.[/quote]

Sorry, IndyOne.  I’ve talked to a lot of independents who want to return to wirehouses.

Some are escaping from bad partnerships.  Some have seen their production plummet for whatever reason.  Most underestimated the overhead costs and the hassles of managing a heavily regulated business.  I also hear a lot of complaints about clearing firms.

Significantly, almost all of them commented on the value of a wirehouse brand.

Several of these candidates have placed.  But many of them have broken their practices beyond repair.

I’m not claiming that everybody is unhappy.  I know another recruiter who helps people go indy.  He has many happy clients.  So do I.

Certain people on this forum get mad at me when I suggest that the world is not a series of binary value judgements.  That won’t change reality.  Some people are happier owning a small firm.  Others are happier working with a major brand.


Like Strauss said:  “Chacun à son gout.”   (To each his own.)

[quote=Soon 2 B Gone]If I had to choose between a suite and jeans I'd choose jeans too--when you put a suite on you look so big and boxy.


[/quote]

Now, that's funny.   Suite    Suit 

[quote=JCadieux][quote=Indyone]I know one thing for certain...independents sure aren't joining wirehouses, even though plenty of them could.[/quote]

Sorry, IndyOne.  I've talked to a lot of independents who want to return to wirehouses.

Some are escaping from bad partnerships.  Some have seen their production plummet for whatever reason.  Most underestimated the overhead costs and the hassles of managing a heavily regulated business.  I also hear a lot of complaints about clearing firms.

Significantly, almost all of them commented on the value of a wirehouse brand.

Several of these candidates have placed.  But many of them have broken their practices beyond repair.

I'm not claiming that everybody is unhappy.  I know another recruiter who helps people go indy.  He has many happy clients.  So do I.

Certain people on this forum get mad at me when I suggest that the world is not a series of binary value judgements.  That won't change reality.  Some people are happier owning a small firm.  Others are happier working with a major brand.


Like Strauss said:  "Chacun à son gout."   (To each his own.)
[/quote]

Jeff, I'm not disagreeing with you...I should have qualified my statement by saying "for the most part" or something similar.  What I took issue with was "For every guy who left a wirehouse there are hundreds who stayed."  The insinuation is that virtually no one leaves a wirehouse to go independent, and that's just baloney.  I would further say that if the statistics are known (and someone probably has them), I would bet that there are far more people going from a wirehouse to an independent practice than vice-versa...just a hunch I have.

You've outlined several good reasons to go the wirehouse route, and I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong...you're not.  Neither am I.  Some people are better suited to the wirehouse model and some like me, are clearly better suited to the independent model.  What I'm here to combat is the statement that only washouts and never-weres go the indy route, and virtually no one at a wire would consider going independent.  That's just inflammatory baloney and Put Easy knows it.  Chacun à son gout back at you...

No, what I’ve said is that virtually nobody who is a star at a wirehouse will bother to leave.



There are lots of mediocre brokers who leave rather than get shoved, or who get shoved and go the independent route.



Like Jeff I too have seen a lot of people returning to wirehouses after
flirting with the idea of being independent and realizing that it’s a
mirage.



You have said you have never lived or worked within sixty miles of a wirehouse.  Does that mean you do not have a formal education?

[quote=JCadieux][quote=Indyone]I know one thing for certain…independents sure aren’t joining wirehouses, even though plenty of them could.[/quote]

Sorry, IndyOne.  I’ve talked to a lot of independents who want to return to wirehouses.

Some are escaping from bad partnerships.  Some have seen their production plummet for whatever reason.  Most underestimated the overhead costs and the hassles of managing a heavily regulated business.  I also hear a lot of complaints about clearing firms.

Significantly, almost all of them commented on the value of a wirehouse brand.

Several of these candidates have placed.  But many of them have broken their practices beyond repair.

I’m not claiming that everybody is unhappy.  I know another recruiter who helps people go indy.  He has many happy clients.  So do I.

Certain people on this forum get mad at me when I suggest that the world is not a series of binary value judgements.  That won’t change reality.  Some people are happier owning a small firm.  Others are happier working with a major brand.


Like Strauss said:  “Chacun à son gout.”   (To each his own.)


[/quote]

No offense Jeff but wirehouses have the capital to pay recruiters and make the best upfront deals. So you might have a little more self-interest involved than objectivity. Even with this they are slowly losing the head count wars and for good reason. If you are a young person you build equity and if you are an older person you don’t need foolish short-term clowns like NASD “Oldie” getting paid to tell you platitudes (that are false/dated for the most part) from your revenue.

The fact that the major firm pay their people on “gross credits” which could be anything the firm decides is the first clue as to why you should go independent if you have no special reason to be at a better capitialized sweatshop. This is essentially a fraud activity by the way, but since it done to producers and not the public directly the NASD has nothing to say about it. As if this doesn’t trickle down to the customers by creating the sleazy cut-throat wire-house dominated industry?

Sure, if you are being offered accounts or access or other special capital resources (wirehouses are filled with cronyism for the few) it might make sense to join a  bank or wirehouse. The rule going in of course if 90-95% of the hires at large firms are fertilizer for larger interests right from the start. The retension raters speak for themselves and even if you succeed and get a reasonable advantage from big-eating-small culture you will always pay the premium for the opportunity.

For the average person (client or broker), independent is better. The real discussion should be about which independent firms are closet wirehouses themselves and explore why brokers can’t be regulated independent of the sleazy NASD firm system all together. Consumers and brokers win in that model and the wirehouse would vanish or reform themselves to a point your wouldn’t recognize them from today or the recent 50 years.

If I valued a recruiter it would be one that is closer to a brokers agent rather than a paid tool for a wirehouse or banks interest. This requires a higher level of skills than most recruiters have and a better system than exists today to support such a model. Brokers would be better off if they paid their agents directly rather than get a constant stream of snowjob from corporate recruiters who mosly represent a middle management systems that would be unemployed quickly in a free advisor system I’ve discussed.

For the person who started this thread; you do better than any of the choices you mentioned.

I’ve been in the business for thirty five years and I cannot understand a thing you’re saying.