500 or bust?
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Then we wait another 4 months for possible retention. Talk about being the red headed step child…
[quote=mnbondguy] [quote=mradd]Beeen in the industry 25 years - top producing FA and MAnager as well as RP… This idea of " retention" is a joke - and your using BAC to justify the statement ? 100 billion in taxpayer money with a 25 billion market cap ? yeah , that retention really made sense… Why shouldnt commercial bankers that bring in millions each in revenue get retention, and why shouldn’t RM’s that manage millions get retention… If I were John Stumpf I would say that the retention is the deferred comp that didnt become worthless since WFC bought the piece of crap WB, and the capital to continue to invest in tech, a competitive comp plan, and no SIPV coming in to send out certs becasue your firm went under… Its a joke… former Pru guys are on their 3rd retention in 6 years , and possible 4th if they moved near the end… The company never made a profit - boy, thats a great business model… keep paying those brokers retention ! Thats why the brokerage business will now become under the watchful eye of Washington and congress - and we’ll all be forced to work for salaries and bonuses… Dont get me wrong , I want cash as much as the next guy , and I cant stand WB, but look at this rom a business perspective or a shareholder - PR perspective and there is only one decision to make - [/quote]
The bonus is misleading since it is earned over such a long period of time. Over 10 yrs, what % of revenue generated by the broker does the retention bonus actually account for? If you get a total of 100% up front, that is only 10% a year, less if your production grows, which for most it will. You noticed I used the term revenue instead of gross commisions. If you add up all the fees the broker gets zero credit for, the spread on the money funds, the haircuts on bonds/mutual funds/syndicate products (how much does WB have baked into those cd’s and structured products?), paying retention makes sense to keep your producers. The bonus AGE brokers got doesn’t even make up for the loss of 401k/deferred comp/restricted stocks they will see over the term of the bonus.[/quote] Well spoken Muni guy.To all who think that WFC is shopping WS, I would encourage you to take a look at the WFC website and read the “Vision and Values” piece that they put out there at the beginning of 2008. In it, they list on page 17 thier 10 Strategic Initiatives. They list Investment, Brokerage, Trusts and Insurance as thier #1 goal. It doesn’t make sense that they would sell us if building a leading investment firm is thier #1 initiative. I haven’t had any cool aide yet, but I think these are unfounded rumors. I copied it below:
“Our 10 Strategic Initiatives To achieve our vision, we
have 10 strategic initiatives. By succeeding in these
initiatives, we’ll achieve double-digit revenue and
earnings growth and be known as one of America’s
great companies:
1. Investments, Brokerage, Trust and Insurance
This is a prime example of “going where the money is.”
At year-end 2007, about 17 percent of our banking
earnings came from investments, brokerage, trust and
insurance—over double where we were a few years
ago—but it’s still not good enough. We must increase
that to at least 25 percent. Less than five percent of our
11 million banking households have relationships with
our brokerage business. Less than two percent buy
insurance through us.”
Thank you for your post. Your post backs up the claims I have made for the last 3 months. We will get name and retention, just not at the speed we or danny expected ot would like.
Dude, I completely agree with you. However, keep in mind that ISG has already been carved out of WS. Wells' vision is to have an ISG office in each store as a means to grow the investment brokerage business. I am in the PCG channel...The writing is on the wall. Wells has what is wants. If Wells can get the write price, it will sell PCG in a second. As a matterof fact, Well will probably get what for PCG what it paid for WB...getting WB for free. There's a reason Buffet is the biggest shareholder.To all who think that WFC is shopping WS, I would encourage you to take a look at the WFC website and read the “Vision and Values” piece that they put out there at the beginning of 2008. In it, they list on page 17 thier 10 Strategic Initiatives. They list Investment, Brokerage, Trusts and Insurance as thier #1 goal. It doesn’t make sense that they would sell us if building a leading investment firm is thier #1 initiative. I haven’t had any cool aide yet, but I think these are unfounded rumors. I copied it below:
“Our 10 Strategic Initiatives To achieve our vision, we
have 10 strategic initiatives. By succeeding in these
initiatives, we’ll achieve double-digit revenue and
earnings growth and be known as one of America’s
great companies:
1. Investments, Brokerage, Trust and Insurance
This is a prime example of “going where the money is.”
At year-end 2007, about 17 percent of our banking
earnings came from investments, brokerage, trust and
insurance—over double where we were a few years
ago—but it’s still not good enough. We must increase
that to at least 25 percent. Less than five percent of our
11 million banking households have relationships with
our brokerage business. Less than two percent buy
insurance through us.”
“going where the money is.”At year-end 2007, about 17 percent of our bankingearnings came from investments, brokerage, trust andinsurance—over double where we were a few yearsago—but it’s still not good enough. We must increasethat to at least 25 percent. Less than five percent of our11 million banking households have relationships withour brokerage business. Less than two percent buyinsurance through us."
great quote
Interesting…WFC might be on to something HUGE.
cross selling?
Universal bank?
Financial super market?
BRILLIANT!!!
Wait…isnt this what Sandy Weil
…Commercial credit…Travalers…Smith Barney…Citigroup…Citicorp
wait…colatoirizing mortgages?
…
CMO’s?..
CDO’s…the end of the MF free world…
Some one needs to send Strump a newspaper
wait
Im trashing WFC?
WFC nn the middle of Cal.
witch doctor loans done: Zero
the world is going one way…
WFC going the other way
they zig when others zag
OK I take it all back
I pick WFC
they want to build on cross selling. go for it
wow That quote from WFC…hell…
maybe WFC is BUYING UBS! not selling WS
[/quote]
Dude, I completely agree with you. However, keep in mind that ISG has already been carved out of WS. Wells' vision is to have an ISG office in each store as a means to grow the investment brokerage business. I am in the PCG channel...The writing is on the wall. Wells has what is wants. If Wells can get the write price, it will sell PCG in a second. As a matterof fact, Well will probably get what for PCG what it paid for WB...getting WB for free. There's a reason Buffet is the biggest shareholder. [/quote] My thoughts exactly.You guys are idiots. If UBS was getting WS they would not have recruited guys just last week. Why would you pay 100 to 200% if you are getting them in a week.
They would have put a freeze on recruiting WS brokers.Perhaps UBS is paying @200% because they know who they’re getting. They’re getting HUGE producers, (just like 99.995% of the fine folks who post here). It’s always worth 200% to get $1mm+ producers. If they bought WS, they’d be stuck with the 60% piker population there, none of whom are represented here, of course. On the bright side, they’d never have to pay “retention” in order to get retention.
You guys are idiots. If UBS was getting WS they would not have recruited guys just last week. Why would you pay 100 to 200% if you are getting them in a week.
They would have put a freeze on recruiting WS brokers. That's not true. Just 4 days before Morgan Stanley went into a joint venture with Smith Barney a branch manager brought over a Smith Barney team and paid over 200%. The producer was doing over 2 million. They honored the contract. They have to keep the door open untill the deal is inked or they would risk everybody finding out before they were ready to announce the deal.Look…retention is not on the top of DL’s list…no matter what he says. he’s just stalling for time. this thing has been going on WAY too long. anyone who has watched DL over the years knows that he is a deal guy. he LOVES the deal…would do anything (including selling out richmond) to make one happen. BTW- nice price for AGE- i’ll bet kenney boy wishes he had that capital back a few months ago… He’s been doing deals for 10 years straight and he’s trying to find a deal right now… they took ISG away from him (nice “dotted line”) and he is now a 50 yr old line manager for a conservative bank CA bank. like he will EVER work for $400 grand. He must be so pissed inside. I guarentee you the SB/MS deal is driving him nuts…it’s his structure for god’s sake (Wachovia/PRu!!) Plus, he lost his *ss when WB went to 3 bucks. Wake-up… a deal will happen with someone,… if WFC will not let him do one, someone else will be running brokerage.
You are absolutely wrong. Here is the problem. Because retention has been pushed back farhter than we care to wait for (Ludeman and Hays said it is coming)we as unpatient advisors start to speculate. Since $ is not in our lap yet we must be selling to UBS or WFC spinning us off. It CANT be because Wells has many facets of retention to think through in a very tough environment. We all expected a retention right after Merrill/BAC retention was announced, then SB/MS made us even more impatient. Danny said end of January to beginning of February on rtention. If we hear NOTHING on rtention or name by Feb 13th I will officially agree that either something is up with WS or no retention
Why Feb 13th?? Why not MArch 13 or April 13 or May 13 or June 13. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
What would be the rationale to wait if you were committed to WS and committed to a retention?
WFC saw ISG “bank brokers” as the cross sell ticket.
Wanted WB’s deposits got WS in the deal
WFC Was Ok with that at first.
DL took his trip to frisco and dropped retention bomb on them.
"excuse me Danny for laughing
I thought u said we PAY them $1mm to STAY in the worst market since 29"
funny huh
… you DID me that?
Day before Valentines day? DL thinks it would help save a few marriages?Why Feb 13th?? Why not MArch 13 or April 13 or May 13 or June 13. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
“What would be the rationale to wait if you were committed to WS and committed to a retention?”
Have not seen one answer to this question?We all know at this point we know nothing. WFC is the unknown. The speculation and all the rumors are all we have. I do know for a fact that last week in SF MGT from all channels were there. I do know that a bunch of managers thought an announcement was about to be made and were surprised it was not. PCG, AGE and ISG all have reason to question and worry about what WFC is thinking since they are keeping us in the dark up to this point. I do not think PCG is getting sold. I do beleive the rumor that the board just approved the allocation for retention last week. I imagine it will be less than what some hope for. But if they sell the company, tell PCG they have another new owner, tell ISG they are lobby jockeys or not real brokers it would mean they do not own a calculator. The margins in all channels are great. 2008 and the write downs are not reflective in the wide margins productive brokers bring to the bottom line. The write downs and losses are a result of business decisions that we are not part of. They like all for profit companies want to think into the future and will see the investment into keeping the brokers in their seats will secure those profits. If not and they sell, or do not pay time will tell how long brokers will go to a place that will pay a premium for prior success. I say they pay. Not because they want to, but because in this business we own the relationships. We do the very thing that make the brokerage business what it is. The deals will be there. Like BE PATIENT says...be patient. Get the facts. Then plan your future. Have a short list of where you would want to work, make your calls, keep your records and numbers current and be ready either way.
I just don’t understand why DL or anyone won’t hit the subject of retention “head on.”
Why laugh at it DL as if it's a passing comment? Why not Communicate for crying out loud. I don't believe a word DL says because actions speak way louder than words. Another two weeks? Another year, what's the difference? DL gets the grammy for his role. For all you who idolize DL, come on...If that's the best you got, you don't have much to look up to. Find another hero.Vet20 - Here is why. No news is bad news to us. If DL comes on broker call after WFC says “let us put retention together” and says “nothing yet” we all freak out, scream “no retention” and have the company sold to UBS or spun off within a week. If I were Danny I wouldnt get on a call every week to say “Hang on” because we all shred him