500 or bust?
3938 RepliesJump to last post
Level 1 is:
1. 250,000 HH 2. An Envision Plan of Record 3. A service contract that you will contact them 6 times in the coming months and 1 face to face 4. A client satisfaction survey sent - no credit for the HH if they return a bad survey. award paid 60 days after the qualifying date - 6/30.9/30.12/31.3/31.6/30 depending on when and what level you qualify for. All of this is detailed in a brochure on infomax. Under best practices then 4front.A FA's had NOTHING to do with the banks issues. MER was in EXACTLY the same position yet BAC paid industry standard retention. Same with SB at C. C has collapsed and is the talk of being nationalized, yet SB set aside 3 billion to pay retention. Again you seem utterly incapable of differenciating. Tell me, exactly what does the average FA have to do with the entire global market place going down? For the first time in your life time or mine, Cash for an entire year was the best place to have money. Unless your advice comes from God himself, you had no way of avoiding this. Blaming an advisor shows how immature you are. You act as though FA's havent seen their own investments go down. Not only is my own personal asset base hammered (like everyones) but to add insult to injury my income is down 40%. HOW DARE you lecture me or my fellow FA's. You have ZERO clue as to what it is like to truly care about your clients and watch this happen knowing full well there is nothing anyone could have done to prevent it. How DARE you assume you understand this industry and pretend that you are a client who is upset that WS FA's only feel they are due what every other firm is doing for their FA's. How DARE you sit there and smuggly say we should just be glad to have a job. All while Managment has blatenly lied to its FA's. MONTHS went by... promises of retention as late as 2 weeks ago were made. Jim Hays fininshing his call by saying " I am pleased with what I see in retention and I think you will be as well." All the while DL says the environment doesnt support a retention but yet in that same call he has the audacity to say WS recruited 170 new FA's meaning they paid those FA's 150-200% to get them to move.... So, its ok to pay those guys but not ok to pay to retain your current FA's? Were I being recruited by a firm that did that to their guys, no way in h@ll would I come to that firm. WFC just killed recruiting and much of top 2 quintiles will be gone with in the next 6 months. Im probably more upset about the deception, lack of clarity and piss poor managment than I am the money. If I wanted money I could move my business and get a "check." [/quote] BukiRob, I think I love you.[quote=Investor/Client]I’m in the software business, actually have had my income slashed by 50% this year. I have many personal friends in your business. Some are owners of financial firms, others are FA’s and some in management. I do understand much of the inner workings of your industry such as retention policies, fee base v. commission etc. You have built a business and you have the right to move it if you want to. My perspective is that you were working for a basically bankrupt organizaiton and that WF gave you a gift by purchasing you. I’d be very quiet about grumbling for retention bonuses while your clients and the rest of the world are getting their butts kicked. Look where your incredibly inciteful financial management advice has gotten your clients this time. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.
This deal is completely separate from regular 4Front. Level 1 is the watered down version (minus the advisory component). You can still qualify for regular 4Front (now called Level 2,3,4) if you have 60% advisory as of 12/31/09, in addition to the other components. Payout isn’t over 108 months, it’s paid within 60 days of quarter end. There is an optional up front “loan” versus your performance award - unfortunately, the pages I printed cut off in the middle, so I don’t have the whole picture, until tomorrow. If you qualify at 25 level as of 6/30/09, then get to 50 at 9/30/09, you get the 50 bps RETROACTIVE back to the whole 50 for the second quarter. Not 25 on the first 25, then 50 on the 2nd 25, 75 on the 3rd, etc. The quarterly award is based on the quarterly snapshot and includes all accounts retroactively. PLUS, you can still qualify for the regular deferred comp 4Front.
Y’all, I’m not a manager. There ARE people left in this firm with integrity who are committed to helping you make this work for you…people that I think you probably already trust - as hard as that is to believe.
Friday pissed me off too. I’ve been lied to as well. We’re all hurt. We’re all disappointed. We all made considerably less money this year than last. Inevitably, people will leave, and that’s fine. But this deal CAN work for you. And if you give it a chance, you’ll see that it can.
If a little distance (and a lot less alcohol) has cleared your head, and you still want to leave, then good luck to you. But if you want to stay, it’s not all bad.
Yotch…In order to lead, you need the respect and trust of your people. DL and JH have blown what little trust and respect they had, especially with legacy AGE. I have several friends that work in the home office of WS, and moral is beyond terrible, many refer to DL as Danny Liarman. The fact that DL thinks you brokers are dumb enough to think forefront is an alternative to a traditional retention package shows just how little respect he has for you.
[quote=theyotch] This deal is completely separate from regular 4Front. Level 1 is the watered down version (minus the advisory component). You can still qualify for regular 4Front (now called Level 2,3,4) if you have 60% advisory as of 12/31/09, in addition to the other components. Payout isn’t over 108 months, it’s paid within 60 days of quarter end. There is an optional up front “loan” versus your performance award - unfortunately, the pages I printed cut off in the middle, so I don’t have the whole picture, until tomorrow. If you qualify at 25 level as of 6/30/09, then get to 50 at 9/30/09, you get the 50 bps RETROACTIVE back to the whole 50 for the second quarter. Not 25 on the first 25, then 50 on the 2nd 25, 75 on the 3rd, etc. The quarterly award is based on the quarterly snapshot and includes all accounts retroactively. PLUS, you can still qualify for the regular deferred comp 4Front.
Y’all, I’m not a manager. There ARE people left in this firm with integrity who are committed to helping you make this work for you…people that I think you probably already trust - as hard as that is to believe.
Friday pissed me off too. I’ve been lied to as well. We’re all hurt. We’re all disappointed. We all made considerably less money this year than last. Inevitably, people will leave, and that’s fine. But this deal CAN work for you. And if you give it a chance, you’ll see that it can.
If a little distance (and a lot less alcohol) has cleared your head, and you still want to leave, then good luck to you. But if you want to stay, it’s not all bad.
[/quote]
Yotch,
You might be right but I read the original stuff in the 4Front booklet. I will say I have not studied yet because I was so put out with the details. Quite frankly, I am in a partnership that does over 1.5 but don’t have the households to qualify on the upper end. The stars have to be aligned almost perfectly for me and my partner to get the max. We are way over that now anyway and are starting to look around.
One other thing is seems to be pretty difficult to actually feel comfortable with the deal. Are you 100% sure on how you describe it? What about the booklet version? when things are this difficult and having so many parts, no one will know if they are getting screwed or being treated fairly. Reminds me of Vegas, the odds are in the house’s favor since they set the system up.
MN - nobody with industry experience in St. Louis professes to think that 4Front is ANY sort of replacement for traditional retention. I’m IN St. Louis. I walk in there every day, wondering what’s coming next. I deal with brokers every day (and wow, I wouldn’t call them “dumb” by any stretch of the imagination) - believe me, my finger is right on the pulse. I hated Friday. HATED IT. But morale in my department is actually pretty good. While we know this is certainly not the equivalent of retention, it does have potential for you. And when I start talking to FAs tomorrow, I’m taking the emotion out of it, at least on my side. The decision has been made, whether we like it or not (and believe me, we don’t). At this point, all we can do is present the opportunity that exists going forward. So I’ll help everyone who wants help making this work, and I’ll gladly listen to anyone who wants to express their frustration and concern. We’ll see what happens with DL and JH - karma’s a bitch, you know?
[quote=BE PATIENT] Well, this will get the forum hopping a bit. BM talked to Hays on Friday. Asked if there will be any manager followup conference calls next week with Danny re: 4front. Hays said probably not this week as Danny will be in Conneticut on business Wed-Fri. What is in Stamford Conneticut?? UBS North American HQ
isnt UBS in wehawkken NJ?[/quote]
Back office ops are centered in Weehawken. Trading is centered in Stamford at one of the world's largest trading floors. Management is in Manhattan, along with whatever is left of research and banking.
theyotch
Your fighting a losing battle. DL et al are THE finest people I have EVER met in this business (26 years).
I will always love and respect them.
WFC doesnt want non bank FA’s
WFC thinks brokers are way over paid
WFC thinks you cross-sell THE BANKS clients via the branch (read their bs).
DL is a pawn now.
sad but the reality of this nasty, sad recession/meltdown
Im VERY surprised that DL and his loyal group didnt resign.
WFC plays with real bullets.
its OVER
4Front as it existed was a tough nut to crack. $250m HH - ok, Envision POR & SLC - ok, 60% or $1mil in Advisory - ok, could be done, NET NEW MONEY - a bitch to kick when you have no control over who withdraws money for whatever reason.
I've studied this, asked a ton of questions, and feel like I've got a good grasp. $250m HH - check. Envision POR & SLC - check. Client Survey scores of 6/7 - ok, check (IF your clients return it, if they don't, it doesn't count against you). You still have to have your business plan done, you still have to have MBA/NGA status (which means you have to come to St. Louis for one 3 day conference or complete a few courses online). That's it.
If you're in a partnership, it probably IS tougher, because your share is only your share of the relationship - so yeah, if you're in a 50/50 split, you're going to need to do twice as many Envision plans to make it in - but there are two of you doing it, so what's the real difference? I guess that depends on how your partnership is built - do you each have your own clients WITHIN the partnership, or do you both service the same clients? Questions to ask, no doubt.
I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of it all before I have to start talking about it. Monday is right around the corner...
kowachovia, If you and your team leave, considering you are now in PF, where could you go with a similiar set up? Or just keep progressing to Indy? How would you assign a ranking on the wirehouse options and then on the regionals, if that is the route you would explore? [/quote] no clue.....[/quote][quote=maddog][quote=kowachovia]Even what we had at WS no longer exists - not just AGE…bigger is not always better.
If you have a good-sized team ready to go, you should consider calling some of the local LPL (or RayJay) OSJ's in town. There are many out there who have open space, and you might be able to negotiate OSJ services at a pretty decent rate and step into a nearly turn-key situation where you get a nice payout and own your book outright.
I am sorry for you guys…sounds like a bunch of Circus hoops to jump through just to get paid…wow!
they
WFC plays for keeps
in the heart of california
number of BS loans done? ZERO
How about the Citigroup deal? You sense any compremise form wfc? shelia bair (fdic) came in "America needs your help"
WFC said go F yourself
that polish dude (kraskalski or wahterever) looks like a GD serial killer.
these guys dont want warm and fuzzy
these guys dont want hassles or FA’s making more money then their top management
the hand writing is on the wall
[quote=CDO Squared] theyotch
Your fighting a losing battle. DL et al are THE finest people I have EVER met in this business (26 years).
I will always love and respect them.
WFC doesnt want non bank FA’s
WFC thinks brokers are way over paid
WFC thinks you cross-sell THE BANKS clients via the branch (read their bs).
DL is a pawn now.
sad but the reality of this nasty, sad recession/meltdown
Im VERY surprised that DL and his loyal group didnt resign.
WFC plays with real bullets.
its OVER
[/quote]
CDO - No doubt, for some it will be over. But for those who are open to it, there’s opportunity. Yeah, there will be things to “get over” - but some people are able to do that. You say that DL and his people are the finest individuals you have ever met in the industry. I can say the same thing about the AGE guys who stayed on (after 20 years of knowing them). We’ve come into this from opposite sides of the same coin. I don’t know a thing about Stumpf, other than he was charming and funny the one time I met him. Who knows what WFC holds for any of us, but it seems that after Friday, they’re not keeping “secrets” anymore. Maybe it will be okay. I’m going to choose to give them a chance. You apparently are choosing another path.
[quote=HymanRoth]
[/quote]
If you have a good-sized team ready to go, you should consider calling some of the local LPL (or RayJay) OSJ’s in town. There are many out there who have open space, and you might be able to negotiate OSJ services at a pretty decent rate and step into a nearly turn-key situation where you get a nice payout and own your book outright.
[/quote]
+1.
Even if you have a small team, the above is spot on. Pay no mind to the “I’ve-only-ever -worked-at-a-wirehouse” idiots who know no other way to do business. The technology, flexibility, support and PROFIT are honestly a whole different ballgame at a top indy firm.
[quote=theyotch]
4Front as it existed was a tough nut to crack. $250m HH - ok, Envision POR & SLC - ok, 60% or $1mil in Advisory - ok, could be done, NET NEW MONEY - a bitch to kick when you have no control over who withdraws money for whatever reason.
I’ve studied this, asked a ton of questions, and feel like I’ve got a good grasp. $250m HH - check. Envision POR & SLC - check. Client Survey scores of 6/7 - ok, check (IF your clients return it, if they don’t, it doesn’t count against you). You still have to have your business plan done, you still have to have MBA/NGA status (which means you have to come to St. Louis for one 3 day conference or complete a few courses online). That’s it.
If you’re in a partnership, it probably IS tougher, because your share is only your share of the relationship - so yeah, if you’re in a 50/50 split, you’re going to need to do twice as many Envision plans to make it in - but there are two of you doing it, so what’s the real difference? I guess that depends on how your partnership is built - do you each have your own clients WITHIN the partnership, or do you both service the same clients? Questions to ask, no doubt.
I don’t know. I’m just trying to make sense of it all before I have to start talking about it. Monday is right around the corner… [/quote]
We split everything 50/50 and we calculated that the best we could do is 50bps on about 65 HHs/FA. We are a PF office and we both are Premier Advisors for the past 3 years. AUM is around 200mm as of Friday. Tell me its fair for us when with I just laid out. Its bullsh!t and it has become not so much about retention, bonus or whatever its called but more about being dealt with fairly and honestly with integrity and respect. DL preaches Regional culture but we are soooo far from that its not even funny. We are too big and too corporate. JMHO
Read the booklet on it. Not InfoMax
***************************************
So they got a booklet out already?? Must have been planning this crap a long time to have prepared booklets for our reading pleasure. Govt scrutiny? Pub perception? Never a factor for them.
theybecas
here is what happens next
WFC’s has been able to hide because they did dodge the real toxic crap.
but now things are changing. as crap keeps getting worse the oakland CA loans from WB (World savings) keep creating more problems. As WFc stock keeps tanking those freaks are going to get MORE and MORE tight (thats how they think. black and white)
plus wfc got screwed on that tax break from WB
The brokerage biz has been better then banking for sure but as we all know, gross is going to go way down. when WS starts reporting net down 40-50% (plus FA;s bailing) those WFC MF’s gonna shoot and ask qustions later.
Grid cut next
Major cut backs (might be mailing confirms with those stage coaches)
Its so obvious.
mark my words
[quote=3rd ID] Read the booklet on it. Not InfoMax***************************************So they got a booklet out already?? Must have been planning this crap a long time to have prepared booklets for our reading pleasure. Govt scrutiny? Pub perception? Never a factor for them.
[/quote]
BINGO. spot on brother.
Heel - You’re right. It’s tough to be in a partnership when you have to split HHs. I think my making any comments beyond that at this point without really seeing your situation would be just lame and presumptive, so I’ll stop there. You can PM me if you want me to look into it specifically for you.