500 or bust?
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Thats great and they are a great place for the right kind of business. They are the WRONG place for people doing advisory based business. The platform is just too shallow.[/quote][quote=WSxAG]Well. here’s the deal. In the past few weeks while all of this was occurring there was one, count it, one firm, that is 50% owned by its employees, released its earnings (up 29% for the quarter - 13th straight year of record net revenue) didn’t take TARP $$, has 17 times the required tier one capital ratio, was ranked #1 in research for the 2nd year in a row (out of 264 firms) and whose stock was actually up last year. Somebody is doing something right.
If you do a lot of advisory business and are looking for familiar faces you have 3 options:
LPL: That is where Burt White went
or B/Ds that do business with
Confluence: The firm Mark Keller started (314) 743-5090
Riverfront: The firm Michael Jones and Rod Smyth started (804) 549-4800
For those following along at home Mark was the chief investment officer at AGE and Michael was the the chief investment officer at WS, Burt ran WS's managed money group (DMA / Fundsource). That's right all 3 quit WS in the last 12 months.
[quote=WSxAG] [quote=BukiRob] [quote=WSxAG]Well. here’s the deal. In the past few weeks while all of this was occurring there was one, count it, one firm, that is 50% owned by its employees, released its earnings (up 29% for the quarter - 13th straight year of record net revenue) didn’t take TARP $$, has 17 times the required tier one capital ratio, was ranked #1 in research for the 2nd year in a row (out of 264 firms) and whose stock was actually up last year. Somebody is doing something right. [/quote]
Thats great and they are a great place for the right kind of business. They are the WRONG place for people doing advisory based business. The platform is just too shallow.[/quote]
With all due respect, 40% of my business is advisory based. It is a far broader platform than AGE had. (for instance 9 Russell Models instead of 5) They have an entire brochure that compares and contrasts their advisory based platform relative to AGE. I was blown away when I first saw it. Same Money Managers Plus, and their PFA equivalent has over 100 funds available vs. 70 for AGE. Maybe not right for everybody, but if you haven't looked for awhile - might be worth a second glance.[/quote] Hank Moody always said that you just can't have enough Russell models.
theyotch wrote:
"Okay, I’m going to need a little explanation here. Let’s see if I’ve
got the gist of it. You make a six figure salary. You work a few hours
a day. Your chosen career is in the financial services industry, an
industry that, by nature, is volatile. You are in this industry in
2009, when the economy is in a serious recession, the market is off 50%
from it’s highs, your client’s accounts, as well as your own, reflect
this loss. You most likely were paid a tidy sum in upfront money to
join WS, AND you received a pretty healthy retention check one year ago
to stay through the turmoil of yet another merger. Maybe you have to
learn a new computer system, poor babies."
Lets see if we can re-frame your focus a bit - a businessman can work anywhere. And it’s not a salary - it’s the part the business man gets to keep - he gives twice that amount to the firm he works for - and he can work for any firm. Anyone would gladly take hundreds of thousands every year.
The businessman doesn’t like to have to apologize for making a lot of money to those
that don’t - those with no motivation, or no talent, or no skill, or just
accidental failures.
He sacrificed the only aet we are born with and our most valuable aet: time. He didn’t spend time with family or with friends, or even time just to enjoy
by himself. He worked and built a big business.
After all, if everyone could
do it, wouldn’t everyone be doing it. And that businessman does all good
business done with integrity and most everyone is happy. So, one place
basically says we don’t pay brokers another says we do and we love them
So, this theyotch, if they represent management - the message from them is - sales people: We own you. That’s obviously a fantasy that someone who never built or owned a business may entertain. Those that have built it realize you are basically standing on a house of cards if people aren’t happy. Those managers put in place through connections, tenure, or working their way up, might not understand. Anyone who is a success in business realizes, business is business - you go where you can do it best. You work for yourself and for your families best interest.
From a business perspective the no retention move may have been good given $3 Billion saved - it depends how many brokers take action - I’d suggest the biggest ones will. But just because you might not make money ncgnto - don’t begrudge those of us that do.
thks, Did not know where any of these people went. I respect both Michael Jones/Rod Smyth and Mark Keller/Bill O'Grady. Their firms appear to be mny mgrs we could use, not firms to join?
If you do a lot of advisory business and are looking for familiar faces you have 3 options:
LPL: That is where Burt White went
or B/Ds that do business with
Confluence: The firm Mark Keller started (314) 743-5090
Riverfront: The firm Michael Jones and Rod Smyth started (804) 549-4800
For those following along at home Mark was the chief investment officer at AGE and Michael was the the chief investment officer at WS, Burt ran WS’s managed money group (DMA / Fundsource). That’s right all 3 quit WS in the last 12 months.
During previous calls since Wells Fargo announced it would buy Wachovia, Ludeman and other executives have a**ured brokers that they would be compensated for staying with the new company.
However, brokers and recruiters have said that expectations about the size or possibility of a deal were being lowered as four months had pa**ed since the announcement of the acquisition and no offer had been made.
Top-producing brokers are being offered as much as 200% of production to change employers and, with no retention package at Wachovia, they will be more likely to do so.
Some recruiters are already preparing to reach out to Wachovia's financial advisers.
"My firm will be working all weekend speaking to Wachovia advisers," said Darin Manis, chief executive of RJ & Makay, a recruiting firm.
"Many of them have been waiting to see what the retention deal will be before deciding if they want to look at other firms to go to or not. Now they have their answer," he said.
Wachovia hired more than 170 brokers in January, paying out large signing bonuses to bring them aboard.
"They can afford to pay millions for new brokers, but they can't reward people who have been loyal to the firm for years," said a Wachovia broker in the southern U.S. "It is just insulting to us."
Why do you all deserve retention. You are paid well, your firm survived a very narrow escape from failure, you are still in business, your clients are suffering, why for just staying in your seat do you deserve retention in the midst of the worst financial storm ever.
It is nothing but corporate blackmail. Pay me or I will leave. I say go.
By the way in all sales and marketing positions the early years are the toughest, most fail early on but those who stay do so because they have done a good job for their clients and they have built a business. You guys with this blackmail mentality aren't building anything. Please someone answer this: If this blog was not private would you want your best clients to see this?
thks, Did not know where any of these people went. I respect both Michael Jones/Rod Smyth and Mark Keller/Bill O'Grady. Their firms appear to be mny mgrs we could use, not firms to join?[/quote][quote=PaulAtreides]
If you do a lot of advisory business and are looking for familiar faces you have 3 options:
LPL: That is where Burt White went
or B/Ds that do business with
Confluence: The firm Mark Keller started (314) 743-5090
Riverfront: The firm Michael Jones and Rod Smyth started (804) 549-4800
For those following along at home Mark was the chief investment officer at AGE and Michael was the the chief investment officer at WS, Burt ran WS’s managed money group (DMA / Fundsource). That’s right all 3 quit WS in the last 12 months.
That's right they are money managers, but you can access them from many B/D for example Baird has all of Riverfront's SMA products available to brokers. Call both firms up Monday and ask what platforms they are on. It could help you in deciding where you might want to go.
Did not realize Bill O'Grady had left too. Who are you getting advice from now? Seems like everyone is gone.
[quote=Lilley@1]Why do you all deserve retention. You are paid well, your firm survived a very narrow escape from failure, you are still in business, your clients are suffering, why for just staying in your seat do you deserve retention in the midst of the worst financial storm ever.
It is nothing but corporate blackmail. Pay me or I will leave. I say go.
By the way in all sales and marketing positions the early years are the toughest, most fail early on but those who stay do so because they have done a good job for their clients and they have built a business. You guys with this blackmail mentality aren't building anything. Please someone answer this: If this blog was not private would you want your best clients to see this?
[/quote] lilly pond, stumfpy got a present for you[quote=Lilley@1]Why do you all deserve retention. You are paid well, your firm survived a very narrow escape from failure, you are still in business, your clients are suffering, why for just staying in your seat do you deserve retention in the midst of the worst financial storm ever.
It is nothing but corporate blackmail. Pay me or I will leave. I say go.
By the way in all sales and marketing positions the early years are the toughest, most fail early on but those who stay do so because they have done a good job for their clients and they have built a business. You guys with this blackmail mentality aren't building anything. Please someone answer this: If this blog was not private would you want your best clients to see this?
[/quote] Good one.[quote=Lilley@1]Why do you all deserve retention. You are paid well, your firm survived a very narrow escape from failure, you are still in business, your clients are suffering, why for just staying in your seat do you deserve retention in the midst of the worst financial storm ever.
It is nothing but corporate blackmail. Pay me or I will leave. I say go.
By the way in all sales and marketing positions the early years are the toughest, most fail early on but those who stay do so because they have done a good job for their clients and they have built a business. You guys with this blackmail mentality aren't building anything. Please someone answer this: If this blog was not private would you want your best clients to see this?
[/quote] They deserve retention because they bring in the revenues that lead to the profits. By the way, WSllc has not gotten a penny of tarp money, nor will they. Is it corporate black mail when David Beckham moves to a different team for more money? Is there something wrong with employees getting paid for what they do? You don't think these guys aren't continuing to build anything? Why do other firms pay to keep their profit makers....? I agree with you, they should go. Go to a firm the supports them better, pays them better and charges their clients less. There are plenty of options. I don't think this forum is private, and would have no problem with my customers reading it. I deal with clients that make lots of money, They don't have a problem with me making money. This is about getting a fair share of the revenue that brokers bring in, not about charging customers more.[quote=mnbondguy][quote=Lilley@1]Why do you all deserve retention. You are paid well, your firm survived a very narrow escape from failure, you are still in business, your clients are suffering, why for just staying in your seat do you deserve retention in the midst of the worst financial storm ever.
It is nothing but corporate blackmail. Pay me or I will leave. I say go.
By the way in all sales and marketing positions the early years are the toughest, most fail early on but those who stay do so because they have done a good job for their clients and they have built a business. You guys with this blackmail mentality aren't building anything. Please someone answer this: If this blog was not private would you want your best clients to see this?
[/quote] They deserve retention because they bring in the revenues that lead to the profits. By the way, WSllc has not gotten a penny of tarp money, nor will they. Is it corporate black mail when David Beckham moves to a different team for more money? Is there something wrong with employees getting paid for what they do? You don't think these guys aren't continuing to build anything? Why do other firms pay to keep their profit makers....? I agree with you, they should go. Go to a firm the supports them better, pays them better and charges their clients less. There are plenty of options. I don't think this forum is private, and would have no problem with my customers reading it. I deal with clients that make lots of money, They don't have a problem with me making money. This is about getting a fair share of the revenue that brokers bring in, not about charging customers more. [/quote] They deserve what the market will bear. Unfortunately, the firm doesn't feel that they would be better off paying a retention bonus. At least the brokers will still have big name recognition.most here miss the point. because this job is so tough, talented fa’s are similar to athletes and actors. since their is a limited amount of talent the market says that their services are worth x dollars. i give you morgan stanley’s retention and wells recruitment packages as evidence.
in baseball, if a team offers $1mm, but another offers $2mm, the player goes to the highest bidder. it's just economics. in this case, wells pulled it's bid. they will lose their all stars and be barely able to field a team. isg at least has access to prospective clients through the bank, so there's some reason to stay, despite the misdeeds of mgmt. i can give no reason why anyone on pcg/age would stay...not a single reason.Have any of you that are Wachovia FAs told your clients that the firm decided against retention? I have floated it by a handful of my largest clients and they were very impressed. No matter how you slice it, we are not being paid a lump sum to stay. Just like our clients are not being paid to stay. This puts us back on their side of the table and they like it.
Give it a try. You might be surprised at the good press they will give you and maybe you will pick up a few referrals in the process.
[quote=go_huskies]most here miss the point. because this job is so tough, talented fa’s are similar to athletes and actors. since their is a limited amount of talent the market says that their services are worth x dollars. i give you morgan stanley’s retention and wells recruitment packages as evidence.
in baseball, if a team offers $1mm, but another offers $2mm, the player goes to the highest bidder. it's just economics. in this case, wells pulled it's bid. they will lose their all stars and be barely able to field a team. isg at least has access to prospective clients through the bank, so there's some reason to stay, despite the misdeeds of mgmt. i can give no reason why anyone on pcg/age would stay...not a single reason.[/quote] That is definitely a risk that Wells decided to take. Obviously, they think it's worth taking the chance.Crooked…I whole heartedly agree with you. Recruiters and competing branch managers are going to continue to have a field day with the scraps of AGE. Legacy WS brokers will be even easier to pick off, there is essentially nothing holding them in their chairs except faith in Ludeman, I think the emperor has shown that he has no clothes.
[quote=go_huskies]most here miss the point. because this job is so tough, talented fa’s are similar to athletes and actors. since their is a limited amount of talent the market says that their services are worth x dollars. i give you morgan stanley’s retention and wells recruitment packages as evidence.
in baseball, if a team offers $1mm, but another offers $2mm, the player goes to the highest bidder. it's just economics. in this case, wells pulled it's bid. they will lose their all stars and be barely able to field a team. isg at least has access to prospective clients through the bank, so there's some reason to stay, despite the misdeeds of mgmt. i can give no reason why anyone on pcg/age would stay...not a single reason.[/quote] It takes gonads to leave and most do not have them. The 4 that have left at my place had them (most around 400K), the guys who sat around this long will not leave, cause they dont have what it takes. The big guys in my place got big by sitting on their ars for 20 years and inheriting stuff along the way; they know that and are scared to leave..simple as that. They are not all stars, that is laughable, everyone of them know they dont know sh*t, their clients are blown up, their own accounts blown up even more.Uberscrew it is just sad to me that the brokerage business cloaks itself in this professionalism you speak of, and by the way I would like to believe that. I mean you are handling a very important part of a family’s life, their money. But it is in times like this when you all show your true colors. It is really all about greed.
As a group I have never met a more sad group of individuals in one industry. You all yearn to be like the professionals, individuals, retirees and business owners you manage money for who have created and built something of lasting value but in reality you know that you are only as good as your last month. The brokerage business is the great melting pot where those of average ability and knowledge can make a good living using their ability to spin and BS. I am a small business owner, and my Wachovia Securities broker and I have built a great relationship over the past 25 years. He is one of the unique group that is grounded and truely looks at his practice as his business. We have really enjoyed watching you all squirm as you wait on this windfall. Especially the younger brokers who live way above their means trying to live like their clients. So I would advise all of you that are dying because you didn't get your check to go out there and negtiate the biggest deal you can so you can pay your bills for the next 3 years.Lilly liver… The majority of the irate brokers here are former A.G. Edwards. We all worked there because the firm put clients first, brokers second and firm third. A.G Edwards was also the only firm that NEVER paid upfront money to recruit anybody. That changed with Wachovia. Everything became firm first. Now Wells is here. The writing is on the wall. Our clients are going to be fed to these wolves. The bank only cares about the bank, period. Good for them. But I’m leaving with my clients.
A.G edwards clients have great relationships with their brokers, they trust us, I’ve been there 20 years.
Also, veterans who have only talked about moving in the past will do so now. Wachovia totally under-estimated the disapproval of A.G people with the past merger, and now WFC has pretty much stepped on their own…tongue with this recent retention debacle.
Experienced brokers with mucho a**ets, clean U-4’s, and beaucoup accounts will leave this firm by the literal thousands.
Not that it matters to you, you are still a two bit piker. Don’t BS us with your Wachovia relationship. And don’t rip on younger brokers trying to live like their clients. You have no idea what it takes to succed in this business. Piker, GTF out.
If you're so accustomed to not having retention bonuses, why is this so hard for you? Doesn't it remind you of AGE? Stand in front of a mirror and repeat "A.G. Edwards is gone" 100 times, or until it sinks in, whichever is greater.Lilly liver… The majority of the irate brokers here are former A.G. Edwards. We all worked there because the firm put clients first, brokers second and firm third. A.G Edwards was also the only firm that NEVER paid upfront money to recruit anybody. That changed with Wachovia. Everything became firm first. Now Wells is here. The writing is on the wall. Our clients are going to be fed to these wolves. The bank only cares about the bank, period. Good for them. But I’m leaving with my clients.
A.G edwards clients have great relationships with their brokers, they trust us, I’ve been there 20 years.
Also, veterans who have only talked about moving in the past will do so now. Wachovia totally under-estimated the disapproval of A.G people with the past merger, and now WFC has pretty much stepped on their own…tongue with this recent retention debacle.
Experienced brokers with mucho a**ets, clean U-4’s, and beaucoup accounts will leave this firm by the literal thousands.
Not that it matters to you, you are still a two bit piker. Don’t BS us with your Wachovia relationship. And don’t rip on younger brokers trying to live like their clients. You have no idea what it takes to succed in this business. Piker, GTF out.
[quote=Lilley@1]Uberscrew it is just sad to me that the brokerage business cloaks itself in this professionalism you speak of, and by the way I would like to believe that. I mean you are handling a very important part of a family’s life, their money. But it is in times like this when you all show your true colors. It is really all about greed.
As a group I have never met a more sad group of individuals in one industry. You all yearn to be like the professionals, individuals, retirees and business owners you manage money for who have created and built something of lasting value but in reality you know that you are only as good as your last month. The brokerage business is the great melting pot where those of average ability and knowledge can make a good living using their ability to spin and BS. I am a small business owner, and my Wachovia Securities broker and I have built a great relationship over the past 25 years. He is one of the unique group that is grounded and truely looks at his practice as his business. We have really enjoyed watching you all squirm as you wait on this windfall. Especially the younger brokers who live way above their means trying to live like their clients. So I would advise all of you that are dying because you didn't get your check to go out there and negtiate the biggest deal you can so you can pay your bills for the next 3 years. [/quote] Will tell you that this board is not an accurate picture of the people I know in the business. People on this board seem to be broke and need the money of retention to live. This business is not easy to make big money, since the firms keep a substantial amount of commisions. Dont know if you are aware, but at most firms if brokers charge a commision of $100.00 or less they make ZERO. At many firms if the account is under 100,000 the brokers make ZERO on the account. The list goes on and on, it would bore you. So with understanding that you can somewhat understand the BS on here. I heard several months ago Wells would not pay brokers, but the firm played games and dragged it out and implied they would pay brokers. Then a half hour later to have Morgan Stanley pay retention to their brokers makes who situation laughable. Yes greed is somewhat an issue, but this played out in a low cla** way. This industry is on the verge of collapse, so in the big picture this will not matter...The market dropping the next 35% will be the bigger story, not retention or bonuses.