500 or bust?
3938 RepliesJump to last post
If this new payout is true, and you could earn up to 50 percent of your T12 that way, how does WFC come after you for any money should you leave??? That to me is “earned”
ENVISION??? That wanna financial planning program??? WTF????Lastest rumors is that retention is going to be paid per envision plan. household must be over 250k they will pay us 2k-4k per plan max retention will be 50%of t12.
250-500 20%
500-750 40%
750-1mill 50%
1mill+ 50% and 25% backend 2)The legacy AGE brokers are getting an acceleration of their previous retention along with a mix of other incentives/bonuses. From management's POV the legacy AGE brokers are the difficult group to address. Many have a fraction of the retention they were granted when WB was at 50, buy they did get a much better retention package last year than the legacy WB reps. I don't think the legacy WB brokers really have to worry. Many of us are going to get a fair market retention package. If you are new in the business or are struggling to do more than $400,000 I highly recommend trying to team up with senior reps on Profit formula. I hope I am wrong and management takes care of the AGE brokers too.....If they don't I think we'll lose at least 1 out of 3 of them.
[quote=20yrVet]
My hunch is that there are 2 different deals: 1)The legacy WB brokers are getting the deal that Bepatient has posted about. A largely upfront deal for the majority of the firm. 0-250 Zero250-500 20%
500-750 40%
750-1mill 50%
1mill+ 50% and 25% backend 2)The legacy AGE brokers are getting an acceleration of their previous retention along with a mix of other incentives/bonuses. From management's POV the legacy AGE brokers are the difficult group to address. Many have a fraction of the retention they were granted when WB was at 50, buy they did get a much better retention package last year than the legacy WB reps. I don't think the legacy WB brokers really have to worry. Many of us are going to get a fair market retention package. If you are new in the business or are struggling to do more than $400,000 I highly recommend trying to team up with senior reps on Profit formula. I hope I am wrong and management takes care of the AGE brokers too.....If they don't I think we'll lose at least 1 out of 3 of them. [/quote] well, that could at least explain the conflicting statements of "you'll be happy" vs. "don't get excited". I would feel horrible for the AGE guys though.
I think if there is no upfront retention for age there will be large exodus. Our branch before the wachovia had 19 FA and now we are down to about 7. All of the big producers have left and out of the 7 remaining 4 will be headed to Stifel over the next 3 months. The other 3 will be headed for the either Morgan or UBS.
I just dont see the reasoning behind paying the WB guys and not AGE. WB guys would be getting paid twice for just sitting on their ass.
This whole thing is just the biggest cluster f%$# ever. Between this crap and the BS w/congress and Obamanation I am just really, really disappointed in people.
The reasoning is quite simple: Dollars and cents. Fair? Not really However, from management's perspective the retention that AGE brokers received and would owe will make it more difficult to leave than the WB broker. I received about $600,000 in deferred retention that I won't start seeing until 2012 or something. That's not going to keep me when my gross is down 20-30% Y/Y. AGE reps received decent amount of upfront money which they will owe the largest portion of back to the firm. WFC doesn't care about making it easier for you and me. They only care about retaining as many reps as possible with the least amount of cash. If you ask me, they don't get it. DL and Hays don't get it. They'd be smart to pay us all upfront and deferred comp and get us the money ASAP. It'll cost them a lot more to recruit someone to replace you or I than to pay us and keep many of us now. They are very short sighted.I just dont see the reasoning behind paying the WB guys and not AGE. WB guys would be getting paid twice for just sitting on their ass.
[quote=iceco1d]
You know guys, this is sounding like a familiar strategy…who could it be? Possibly Edward D. Jones?! Maybe Weddle & Co. are buying WS/AGE?!
That explains it! They don't WANT the big producers to stay. They want all the guys that would qualify for "Segment 2 or 3" to GTFO and take big $$$ somewhere else, so they can replace them all with rookies! I can see it now...they'll install locker rooms in all the WS/AGE offices so that the brokers can take turns walking around the neighborhood, and then take a shower and change their stinky suits when they get back! Oh, sorry to bum some of you guys out, especially you Gaddock, but since you're going to be EDJ owned & operated, that means no-moe options trading for you silly! It's CAIBX or bust! Ok, just kidding. [/quote]oh you are a sick sick man.....
that maybe the perspective of wells and dannys but after this ordeal alot of the age would leave even if they have to payback the remaining retention. Like I said we started with 19 FA's and we are down to 7 and by mid june we should be down to 1 or 2 in a 25 office building.
I can’t think of one uptick since the sellout to WB or WFC. Why would I think Friday will be a good day for me. I think they are so scambled with the conversion this week that nothing will happen Friday. I heard the same romurs you guys have heard from my Branch Manager. However, the trend has not been good and until it changes I expect more of the same . Come to think of it, I don’t want to work here anyway so the money would just cloud my judement so I hope we do not get anything.
If this no upfront crap is true, these guys are completely clueless. The F&*%$ market is down 10% since the start of the year. I dont care who you are if you are a seasoned producer you aint growing squat in that kind of envioronment. Production is down over 35% firmwide and you want to roll out a growth incentive bonus???? are you on freaking crack? Growth will surely be measured against T12 08. The problem with that is the massive damage happend in the latter part of Q4If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. But my info is direct from management expressed to me this evening. His optimism (for keeping brokers in their seats) is based on the attainable aspects of this program and that it is likely to be paid quarterly. His take was that it incents a greater number of the 200-500k producers which, after all, is the biggest portionof both AGE and Wachovia FAs. It “should” also result in a greater percentage paid on trailing 12 for a greater number. Don’t shoot the messenger.
I am in complete agreement. I wasn’t told how this program as described would make us happy while structured in this way, just that it will. I sense there has to be a sweetener that hasn’t been expressed and can’t be til at least this meeting today. I have passed this on verbatim as it has been described to me while respecting a request that I don’t ask for details that he has been ordered not to give. And yes, the cloak and dagger stuff grinds on me too
If all they are doing is a grid bump why stay at PCG? If you want a REAL grid bump go to Finet. If there isnt any up front then guys are going to leave in droves. That would be a tremendous insult given the market conditions. The dislocation that is occuring with clients is as bad if not worse than when there is a merger where the infastruture is changing.
If you did 1 million in 2008 you are going to struggle to get to 700k this year. The further declines YTD in this market are going to make hitting that number a challenge and that is assuming you are bring in net new assets.No cash upfront will be it for me. I will be over the edge and out the door. These frikkin idiot “yes men” really don’t get it.
The reasoning is quite simple: Dollars and cents. Fair? Not really However, from management's perspective the retention that AGE brokers received and would owe will make it more difficult to leave than the WB broker. I received about $600,000 in deferred retention that I won't start seeing until 2012 or something. That's not going to keep me when my gross is down 20-30% Y/Y. AGE reps received decent amount of upfront money which they will owe the largest portion of back to the firm. WFC doesn't care about making it easier for you and me. They only care about retaining as many reps as possible with the least amount of cash. If you ask me, they don't get it. DL and Hays don't get it. They'd be smart to pay us all upfront and deferred comp and get us the money ASAP. It'll cost them a lot more to recruit someone to replace you or I than to pay us and keep many of us now. They are very short sighted. [/quote] 20yrVet -- FWIW, there is a pretty strong undercurrent running that the deferred retention you spoke of will have its vesting moved up as part of this package. The thinking is that doing so addresses the "cash" aspect of this "non traditional" deal.[quote=skbroker]I just dont see the reasoning behind paying the WB guys and not AGE. WB guys would be getting paid twice for just sitting on their ass.
The reasoning is quite simple: Dollars and cents. Fair? Not really However, from management's perspective the retention that AGE brokers received and would owe will make it more difficult to leave than the WB broker. I received about $600,000 in deferred retention that I won't start seeing until 2012 or something. That's not going to keep me when my gross is down 20-30% Y/Y. AGE reps received decent amount of upfront money which they will owe the largest portion of back to the firm. WFC doesn't care about making it easier for you and me. They only care about retaining as many reps as possible with the least amount of cash. If you ask me, they don't get it. DL and Hays don't get it. They'd be smart to pay us all upfront and deferred comp and get us the money ASAP. It'll cost them a lot more to recruit someone to replace you or I than to pay us and keep many of us now. They are very short sighted. [/quote] 20yrVet -- FWIW, there is a pretty strong undercurrent running that the deferred retention you spoke of will have its vesting moved up as part of this package. The thinking is that doing so addresses the "cash" aspect of this "non traditional" deal.[/quote] The problem with that is that peoples DC has been decimated unless you kept in all in cash. If you were drinking the koolaide and bought CO stock you got destroyed. At the end of the day it ends up a pure BS deal if what you guys are saying is true. If they are going to true up then that would be different but merely accelorating vesting does basically nothing for the vast majority of us. You know, I just wonder if the UBS/WS joint venture was actually what was going on behind the scene? Why would you pull ISG out from brokerage if you had any intention of keeping your retail brokerage. It makes FAR more sense to have all brokerage channels under retail brokerage unless your plan is to "sell" retail brokerage. The rumor about a retention package for the combined entity starts to make a lot of sense now. The deal comes undone at the last minute and now DL, JH and DC are saying what do we do now? WFC doesnt want to pay and it made sense with the JV but we cant tell them they get nothing..... WFC says no money so they are left with trying to convince to accelorate DC and bump the grid.....[quote=20yrVet][quote=skbroker]I just dont see the reasoning behind paying the WB guys and not AGE. WB guys would be getting paid twice for just sitting on their ass.
Me either but I dont see that deal happening soon enough to impact this announcement.I don’t think the UBS deal is dead yet…
The reasoning is quite simple: Dollars and cents. Fair? Not really However, from management's perspective the retention that AGE brokers received and would owe will make it more difficult to leave than the WB broker. I received about $600,000 in deferred retention that I won't start seeing until 2012 or something. That's not going to keep me when my gross is down 20-30% Y/Y. AGE reps received decent amount of upfront money which they will owe the largest portion of back to the firm. WFC doesn't care about making it easier for you and me. They only care about retaining as many reps as possible with the least amount of cash. If you ask me, they don't get it. DL and Hays don't get it. They'd be smart to pay us all upfront and deferred comp and get us the money ASAP. It'll cost them a lot more to recruit someone to replace you or I than to pay us and keep many of us now. They are very short sighted. [/quote] 20yrVet -- FWIW, there is a pretty strong undercurrent running that the deferred retention you spoke of will have its vesting moved up as part of this package. The thinking is that doing so addresses the "cash" aspect of this "non traditional" deal.[/quote] The problem with that is that peoples DC has been decimated unless you kept in all in cash. If you were drinking the koolaide and bought CO stock you got destroyed. At the end of the day it ends up a pure BS deal if what you guys are saying is true. If they are going to true up then that would be different but merely accelorating vesting does basically nothing for the vast majority of us. You know, I just wonder if the UBS/WS joint venture was actually what was going on behind the scene? Why would you pull ISG out from brokerage if you had any intention of keeping your retail brokerage. It makes FAR more sense to have all brokerage channels under retail brokerage unless your plan is to "sell" retail brokerage. The rumor about a retention package for the combined entity starts to make a lot of sense now. The deal comes undone at the last minute and now DL, JH and DC are saying what do we do now? WFC doesnt want to pay and it made sense with the JV but we cant tell them they get nothing..... WFC says no money so they are left with trying to convince to accelorate DC and bump the grid.....[/quote] BukiRob -- You may be right on all counts, but that's not going to change it. From mgmt's perspective, what people did with deferred comp is their business (or problem). In their minds, they granted the $. Either in cash to AGE or deferred comp to WS. When the original thinking was for traditional retention (read cash up front), the skinny was always that the retention amount already paid on the AGE deal would be somehow factored against a typical "clean" deal, anyway. As for what happens next, there's a good spec that the JV resurfaces, but with four components: WFC (1) and UBS (2) in for about a 2:1 ratio, similar to broker headcount. Brokers retention (3) takes form of restricted stock in the JV and cash, supplied by a limited public offering (4) of enough stock from both WFC and UBS to take WFC's dominent share down to below 50% so they don't have to consolidate the JV's financials into theirs. But that'll take time, and maybe a better market, to pull off.[quote=res ipsa loquitor][quote=20yrVet][quote=skbroker]I just dont see the reasoning behind paying the WB guys and not AGE. WB guys would be getting paid twice for just sitting on their ass.