Now that is the post Spiff and B ought to print out and laminate. The other side, the one where you look at things truly objectively. I couldn't agree more. Out 4 years, I had my best year ever two years ago and this year looks like I might eclipse it. You glossed over something very important...You own your biz and you can sell it.

I am currenlty negotiating a buyout of an indy FA who has 70M AUM. He grossed 500K and is looking for 1M. LP or ownership. Hands down its the best ROI out there, I'll take ownership anytime.

I don't think B24 and I have participated in this indy vs. Jones conversation thus far.  I don't disagree that being indy has some advantages over EDJ.  I don't believe I've ever argued that point.  I don't believe B has either.  He's very open and clear about how he feels on the indy vs. EDJ discussion.  And I don't believe he's 100% pro-Jones.   

So, Cheesey, how about you quit trying to put words in my mouth? 

So, Cheesey, how about you quit trying to put words in my mouth? 

Spiffy-

Why such an angry overtone? I just suggested you print and laminate. That way you could readi it without editing...if that constitiutes putting words into your mouth my sincerest apologies.

Silly me...I thought you had the ability to form your own sentences...

Holy crap, let me sidebar this Indy vs Ejones argument. (somehow I feel like we have had this debate 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 times) ...

My God - my summer regional was very miserable this year. I am frankly disappointed in how it was set up. For those of you who went was your hotel/resort a cheaper version of the the last few years?

I personally really let me review eat about the regional. We didn't accomplish much.

a. 30% of time talking about recruiting

b. 25% of time getting products pitched by wholesalers

c. 20% of time watching video from home office or listening to their speakers.

d. 15% of time listening to some idiot ass talk about something he clearly doesn't understand.

e. 10% of the time getting great information from really good vets, as well as talking strategy,etc.

Imagine how much money the firm would save if they just had webex's. If every FA saved 90% of the headaches and got 10% of the good stuff...maybe a higer bonus bracket or bonus...Hey maybe they'll give you guys LP for going to summer proproganda train.

Spiff would be happy...somethin for nothin. AAAAhhh the Edward Jones regionals....Sure do miss them. I remember when I thought they were a vacation....

It was the first jones meeting I ever went to that I didn't get a good idea. I did get one outside of the meeting, but I get more than that every day at this site.

[quote=RealWorld]Holy crap, let me sidebar this Indy vs Ejones argument. (somehow I feel like we have had this debate 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 times) ...

My God - my summer regional was very miserable this year. I am frankly disappointed in how it was set up. For those of you who went was your hotel/resort a cheaper version of the the last few years?

I personally really let me review eat about the regional. We didn't accomplish much.

a. 30% of time talking about recruiting

b. 25% of time getting products pitched by wholesalers

c. 20% of time watching video from home office or listening to their speakers.

d. 15% of time listening to some idiot ass talk about something he clearly doesn't understand.

e. 10% of the time getting great information from really good vets, as well as talking strategy,etc.[/quote]

Funny that you said that you needed to sidebar the indy vs EDJ conversation when it was the actually the sidebar.  You're just getting us back on track. 

Our venue was one of the better ones we've had.  New hotel, great area, lots for us to do.  The downside is that it's only a 2 day meeting, which doesn't lead to very much time for anything of any consequence to be discussed.  I didn't bring much home from it as far as new ideas go.  I did bring back a realization that FAST is the way the firm is headed and if you're not on board, you're going to be a dinosaur.   There was also a direct correlation between the big producers and FAST adopters.  My big takeaway was to get more involved with that tool.  Quickly. 

The two day meeting format is a waste of time.  They should put the firm update online for viewing before the meeting.  Anyone who really cares about it, already knows how the firm is doing.  They put that info on Jonesnet all over the place.  We spent an hour of an 8 hour meeting doing nothing but intros.  You know, it seems like a waste of time to meet the new people.  And the vets already know each other.  Let's just skip that and talk about something more meaningful.  We get weekly updates on technology from Vinny Ferrari in our inbox, so skip that.  I don't need to hear about recruiting.  The wholesalers don't need an hour to do their presentation.  1/2 hour tops. 

Not one discussion about the changes in minimum expectations.  That would have been a great topic to cover.  It would have been nice to have the RL explain it some more and let us ask questions. 

The one that got me was the compliance session.  Shades of Gray?  Are you kidding me?  My kids could have figured out that both of those folks did something wrong.  How about making us think next year? 

My final gripe - The Pioneer award.  Why do we give out an award for keeping your job for 12 months? 

OK, I'm done. 

Do you have to go to the regional meetings?

The Pioneer Award...

Looking for gold in all the wrong places....

That would be the Ted Jones Prospecting Award. 

 Now there is a good use of those hard earned profit dollars...

If you jump ship before you have 500 households and are grossing about 400k, you are nuts.  You NEVER pull more than 75% of your book, and if you get close, the extra time and paperwork you have going indy is not worth it.  I do like the post by navet where he is doing this to supplement his income.  Right...  You make six figures outside EDJ and are doorknocking?  You are either lying or a knucklehead!  Way back when I did that, I was worth about $1,500, jumped ship about three years ago with a gross around 600k.  I would NEVER go backwards.

Back to the regionals, as someone who used to be in charge of putting them together, let me tell you that they are no bag of donuts.  When regions were larger and we never could get together, they were a bigger deal, but from what I hear from my friends still at EDJ, you guys have a meeting every other Thursday!  AND, I understand that you have a dinner for just about everything!  Recruiting, Performance, whatever.  I think the summer regionals have lost their thunder!

I think what is happening at Jones is a slow deliberate change in my old region since I left what I hear is there are a lot of people who just aren't happy. You are right regionals used to be fun it was something you could look forward to you weren't getting charged to take kids (that's a joke) and there was more time to talk to other FA's. Things were inspiring and interesting.  I think with all the changes both to product (advisory solutions etc..) and with the changes to expectations, and what's happened in the market. etc.. Jones has just had ton of negativity going on over there..John Bachmann was at least interesting, Doug Hill was kind of a country boy, Jim Weddle is polished and professional but has an undertone of arrogance. Regionals used to really fire me up and I had the chance to talk to a couple of friends who were more than disinterested in going. In fact a few were trying to get out of going.. I am sure they are working on getting things back in order..Losing Skrainka, Peter Drucker, and then hiring Jim Collins was probably not a good move..Peter Drucker and John Bachmann nailed it in my opinion use regionals as a tool to reinforce the culture and bring excitement somehow they have gotten away from that and it will hurt the firm

[quote=Remo Gaggi]

If you jump ship before you have 500 households and are grossing about 400k, you are nuts.  You NEVER pull more than 75% of your book, and if you get close, the extra time and paperwork you have going indy is not worth it. ....[/quote]

You are so wrong it's ridiculous. So what you are saying is that you should continue to fill the Edward Jones funnel with your hard work? Look, I left Jones and realized that prospecting wasn't behind me. It's just that every contact I make right now is about returning money into my pocket.

Yeah, if you want to continue to sit on your fat a$$ and do nothing ... wait until you have $400K and 500 households.  Then you can do even more nothing as an independent and be paid even more handsomely for doing nothing for your clients.And I didn't want more than 75% of my book. None of us do.  

There's this misconception that having a "name" means you can't succeed. Are you kidding me? If I was going to succeed after three years in this business, I was going to succeed with or without Jones' name behind me. Get busy living, or get busy dying and stop bullshitting me about how many clients or assets I need.

I always had everything I ever needed. It was between my ears.

Well said Lock.  I come into my office everyday with goals and a passion to be successful.  Being Indy makes the payoff that much sweeter and I will never look at being anything but Indy.  Everyone says don't go just for the money, but I did and am happy I did so.  Every $ I invest in MF's, L shares, Advisory...just builds my equity.  It took me 3 years to be back to my original asset level...but my production level has always been more.  The only reason I can come up with is its about working for myself and my family...not someone elses. 

Remo, if clueless was a virtue, you'd be a saint. I don't do door to door. I figured that if I was going to manage my own money, why not get paid to manage others. My timing wasn't the best but I had no control over the bear. Six figures isn't that much now a days. And I got bored at home. My biggest issue now is that, like you, most people I meet don't have a pot to piss in.

Come on Guys,  Some of the people on this post can't read!  I wrote use bigger numbers = More $$.   I used the math to make it easy!  65K, 45K, 10K it is the point about the difference in fee base pay out.  I also used 10M because most of my old war buddies has less than 10M in Advisory.  Some of the people on this post only want to pick the numbers apart, look at the concept not the numbers!  I moved my book and took about 67% of my assets.   Don't believe a neighborhood "Mr. Rodgers" when he comes to your regionals and tells you that you will take 20% of your assets (That number is Mistaken!!!! Unless you are a terrible unethical broker!

Think of Indy as the "Ultimate Reverse Goodnight on Steroids". You get to pick where your office is, What your rent is, How much you pay Admin. Most importantly you get to pick the clients you get to work with!  The thought that the person who takes over my old office will begin with my hand-me-downs makes me laugh.  I wish that person all the luck in the world.  He will say anything to try to keep the clients.  But, the clients see right though that sales pitch!

Anyway,  Don't think so small when I use a number of 10M.  Use 100M if you want do the math and decide for yourself!

PS:  I have been in 8 Countries this year on my own "Diversification Trips". (I have and would never sell somone a stock, bond, mutual fund, credit card or new account to "win" a category to "win" a trip. (I wonder what FINRA would think about something like that?) I went on my own dollar and had  No Meetings, No one making sure I don't drink too much, and No one telling me I have to hang out with them!  That's what I call a vacation.  Oh yeah, it didn't cost me $3000 in taxes to take! Humm how is that a free trip if I paid tax on it?!  (Just a few things to make you go hummmmm?)

[quote=LockEDJ]

Fuzzy math.

you are forgetting some simple pieces. Like the 10 to 25 bp the BD takes off the top, and that's before the 10% haircut (and I'm not so sure you're getting 90% payout if your history is $120000 a year). So you are netting a whole bunch less. And I run my office about as cheaply as you can, and technology, rent, association fees or whatever cost over $1500 a month. Minimum.

So your $90K just became more like $81K out of the gate, and you haven't paid the $18000 a year nut to keep the doors open. All told, you are jumping ship for the difference between $54K and ... $64?

And one last thing: if you were doing $10K in advisory solutions, there's absolutely ZERO chance you'll get a 100% rate of success bringing business with you ... OOPS. Now you're making less at your new office. Good luck with that.

LockEDJ,

Real payout is about 84% after all charges! I used smaller numbers to make the math easy, but your also forget that you actually have other clients besides Fee based.  You still get trails on A share mutual funds (84% of 25 bps is better than 40% of 25bps).  You still have DCA's, Annuities and new money comming in. I run a really inexpensive model.  I spend about $20,000 a year out the door.  Ok, lets talk about some of the stuff you forgot! How many business expenses do you write off? Oh, none because you are a W2 employee.  I can write offf all of those expenses and I can also do more funding in my retirement accounts than you can. I also build equity in my business everyday which I will be able to sell for as much or as little as I want. At, the end of the day it is my equity not someone elses. Also, before you say we can get Partnership,  You don't anything, execpt the abiltiy to invest in edj.  You also get some have to pay ordinary income tax plus capital gains as phantom income till it's paid off!  Once your earning have paid off the principal, now you get to claim K-1 income on your taxes as long as you own it.  It's been a while, but the last time I checked there are many good quality growth & income investments that have performed better on a net after tax basis after your partnership.  Food for thought, how often do you get the opportunity to invest in the company? 

Fooled, most people here know that I am a former Joneser.After I went indy, I made success for myself in a smaller cubbyhole than anyone else here I think could imagine. I believe you can make it with limited numbers.

That said, what you are suggesting glorifies going independent to the extent of being unrealistic. For instance, very few FAs get a 90% payout without some considerable handcuffs if they've done less than $150K T12. And if that's the case, no - you simply do NOT get to an 84% payout. For pete's sake Cambridge won't even touch someone without $200 T12 and that gets them an 87%. Triad is 85; ICC is roughly 88. LPL pays 93, but then you have huge monthly fees. You'll find a couple at 90 but they generally are nabbing you on the backend.  I notice you never address this point.

[quote=Fooled No More]PS:  I have been in 8 Countries this year on my own "Diversification Trips". (I have and would never sell somone a stock, bond, mutual fund, credit card or new account to "win" a category to "win" a trip. (I wonder what FINRA would think about something like that?) I went on my own dollar and had  No Meetings, No one making sure I don't drink too much, and No one telling me I have to hang out with them!  That's what I call a vacation.  Oh yeah, it didn't cost me $3000 in taxes to take! Humm how is that a free trip if I paid tax on it?!  (Just a few things to make you go hummmmm?)[/quote]

I deleted the rest of your post because I don't disagree with your math. 

I'm curious though, how much did your trips cost? 

I have and never will sell anyone a stock, bond, mutual fund, credit card, or insurance product because of a trip.  I actually missed my last trip because I needed 500 more points in the income non taxable category.  I had a guy with $50K going into his JT account the day before the contest ended.  His tax bracket wasn't high enough for me to justify putting it into a muni bond or muni fund.  We bought BABs instead.  It was the right thing to do for him.  It saved me $1500 in taxes, but cost me a trip. 

Guess I'll have to fork over my own dollars to take my wife to Transylvania.  While I saved $1500 in taxes, that trip for the airfare and hotel alone will cost me $2960 (expedia.com - roundtrip STL to Bucharest and a week in Sept at the Athenee Palace Hilton).  But, I won't have to sit in a meeting for 3 hours.  I won't have to go to any dinners with new friends I've met that week.  And I'll get to drink as much as I want, as long as I pay for it myself. 

Or, I could use one of the timeshares I own.  My maintenance fee is $600.  Flight to Bucharest would run about $1000 per person.  Still no meetings, no dinners, and drinks on my Visa.   

You can dog the Jones trips all you like, but you can't argue that the Jones trips are cheaper than you can do it on your own if you want to stick with the same kind of quality.