Putsy,

Do you think that insurance companies are stupid?  If the insurance agent was simply brought to the table to fill out the application, do you really think that the insurance companies would have to pay out 100% in first year commission?

They pay out the commission because in the vast majority of cases, the sale would not be made without the insurance salesman pushing the idea of the insurance in the first place.  

Top insurance producers don't make millions by filling out applications.  They put everything in motion.

It's probably not a lie, but individual experiences will vary as usual.  A friend of mine in the office works on an UHNW team; their minimum is $10mm and many of their clients are worth hundreds of millions.  The vast majority of them had a CPA, attorney, and a broker.  I think only a few had an insurance agent.  This team is now making a killing bringing insurance into the picture as well as estate planning.  They work with a few general agents that work with our office. 

I've had the good fortune to recently come across opportunites with UNHW individuals and the people I'm meeting with don't have insurance agents either.  It does seem to have something to do with the reputation of some insurance agents.  I'm positive that the insurance agents who work with HNW individuals are brilliant at what they do.  It's just sad that many HNW individuals won't work with them because of the reputation that some idiots bring to the industry.

[quote=DAtoo][quote=anonymous]

What should a prospective employee do, ask during the interview, "Er, this will sound odd-----but are you honest?"

Putsy, when someone lies to you, do you bother to ask them if they are honest?  Spintofish has a dishonest BOM and if he works there, he should expect to hear lies.  

[/quote]

Is it a lie to say that an HNV investor uses a CPA, a lawyer, and a broker--excluding a life guy--or is it a point of view?

[quote=anonymous]

Putsy,

Do you think that insurance companies are stupid?  If the insurance agent was simply brought to the table to fill out the application, do you really think that the insurance companies would have to pay out 100% in first year commission?

They pay out the commission because in the vast majority of cases, the sale would not be made without the insurance salesman pushing the idea of the insurance in the first place.  

Top insurance producers don't make millions by filling out applications.  They put everything in motion.

[/quote]

Insurance companies cannot be bright or stupid--they're an institution without measurable intellect. 

The agents generally range from high grade morons such as one finds on that top gun producers website to very bright.  I'd say that 50% are high grade morons, 40 percent of average intelligence and 10% bright enough to comprehend what an average stockbroker in 1975 was doing.

How much money one makes is irrelevant--Mike Tyson earned a lot of money too.

[quote=DAtoo][quote=anonymous] Insurance companies cannot be bright or stupid--they're an institution without measurable intellect.  [/quote]

Don't confuse the salesman with the home office.  That's like saying "NML sucks because their salesmen are greedy"..........

How much money one makes is irrelevant

It's very relevant when many people in this industry are trying to make as much money as possible. 

DAtoo is a closet queer… and Bobby Hull had the funniest post

[quote=DAtoo]

Anyway, she got that $2 million and could not get rid of it fast enough--gifting maximum sums to her sons, daughters in law, and grandchildren.

She also bought was she was told was a $250,000 single premium deferred variable annuity for her two sons.  Ten or fifteen years later the sons--one a banker and the other a SVP at a wirehouse--were looking over the paperwork and came to the realization that what had been bought was not a variable annuity but was some sort of life policy.  She became both confused, embarassed and felt victimized so she took the paperwork away and we've never been allowed to see it since.  She explained that a man at the church was a new agent and she asked him what she could buy from him to give him some help while he was getting started.  I suspect there was a sales contest on for whatever it is she bought for $500,000 and someday my brother and I will find out what it is.

Actually I asked my own agent to check on it and he reported back what it was--but I didn't care at that point and don't really remember.  It's variable life, or variable universal life--it will be part of my estate, which is fine.

[/quote]

Something in this story is BS.  There is no way your mother took out a VL or VUL on you without you clearly knowing what was going on.  There is a little thing called underwriting and a medical exam that have to be done.  Gee, why am I peeing in this cup for an annuity?

Very true, Braves fan.  Or even if good 'ol mom bought the variable policy on herself to give 2 children $250K tax free upon her death, she would have to wonder why a nurse is sticking a needle in her arm to invest money?  Why the scale?  All the health questions?  The urine sample? 

"Oh, standard procedure for an annuity, ma'am."

Yeah, right, either you made this whole story up, or your mother is incredibly stupid.

[quote=braves fan][quote=DAtoo]

Anyway, she got that $2 million and could not get rid of it fast enough--gifting maximum sums to her sons, daughters in law, and grandchildren.

She also bought was she was told was a $250,000 single premium deferred variable annuity for her two sons.  Ten or fifteen years later the sons--one a banker and the other a SVP at a wirehouse--were looking over the paperwork and came to the realization that what had been bought was not a variable annuity but was some sort of life policy.  She became both confused, embarassed and felt victimized so she took the paperwork away and we've never been allowed to see it since.  She explained that a man at the church was a new agent and she asked him what she could buy from him to give him some help while he was getting started.  I suspect there was a sales contest on for whatever it is she bought for $500,000 and someday my brother and I will find out what it is.

Actually I asked my own agent to check on it and he reported back what it was--but I didn't care at that point and don't really remember.  It's variable life, or variable universal life--it will be part of my estate, which is fine.

[/quote]

Something in this story is BS.  There is no way your mother took out a VL or VUL on you without you clearly knowing what was going on.  There is a little thing called underwriting and a medical exam that have to be done.  Gee, why am I peeing in this cup for an annuity?

[/quote]

I did have one of those girls carrying a scale and blood sucking kit with her stop by the office--but that's all.  I knew she was buying something and all I had to do to accept the gift was step on the scales and donate a tube of blood.

A no brainer.

And the medical interview, the urine sample, the measurements, the papers in the mail stating that you're insured, the statements you received every quarter?

You're full of it.

[quote=Big Taco]

And the medical interview, the urine sample, the measurements, the papers in the mail stating that you're insured, the statements you received every quarter?

You're full of it.

[/quote]

As I said the medical stuff was done by a woman who came to my office.  The statement saying I was insured was sent to my parent's house as is the quarterly report.

My mother bought it using her address--she owns the policy, I am the insured, she is the beneficiary.

And I do not know what it is.

BS.

She must not have had much faith in either of her 2 sons with careers in the financial services industry... She didn't even consult either of you on her finances or estate planning strategy.  She just found a guy from church to deal with.  What's that say about you?

And then it was such a shock when you began reading the documentation on the financial product that was purchased on your behalf, "10 or 15 years" later. 

She must have been "confused and embarrased" that neither of her 2 sons in the financial services industry realized that "annuities" that involve urinalysis, blood sampling, medical interviews, weighings, measurements, underwritings.... well, that's not an annuity. 

[quote=ExPropTrader]

So how does a HNW individual avoid those nasty estate taxes?

[quote=spintofish]“Yeah, if you go with a life insurance company all
roads will eventually lead back to one thing: BUY MORE LIFE
INSURANCE.”[/quote]



Which is precisely why HNW people don’t bother with life agents. You know exactly what they are going to say.

[quote=Big Taco]

BS.

She must not have had much faith in either of her 2 sons with careers in the financial services industry... She didn't even consult either of you on her finances or estate planning strategy.  She just found a guy from church to deal with.  What's that say about you?

And then it was such a shock when you began reading the documentation on the financial product that was purchased on your behalf, "10 or 15 years" later. 

She must have been "confused and embarrased" that neither of her 2 sons in the financial services industry realized that "annuities" that involve urinalysis, blood sampling, medical interviews, weighings, measurements, underwritings.... well, that's not an annuity. 

[/quote]

Fair enough.  The times were unusual--a mother crazy with sorrow over the death of a son is doing everything she can to get rid of $2 million.

When a guy calls from an insurance company saying that your mother has written a $250,000 check for your benefit, and that a woman will be coming by to do an insurance exam you say, "Fine when would you like to do that."

What you do not say is, "What did she buy, what is it going to do for me?"

As for not even thinking about it for years--why?   My brother and I were earning a well above average income and there was no need to talk to our parents who were doing just fine themselves.  When they retired their willingness to share their financial success with their sons became more important.

That they did not turn to me or my brother for estate planning help is because they turned to an attorney.  Who is better at writing wills, setting up trusts and the like than an attorney?

[quote=]

BS.

She must not have had much faith in either of her 2 sons with careers in the financial services industry... She didn't even consult either of you on her finances or estate planning strategy.  She just found a guy from church to deal with.  What's that say about you?[/quote]

That they did not turn to me or my brother for estate planning help is because they turned to an attorney.  Who is better at writing wills, setting up trusts and the like than an attorney?

Actually, it sounds as if to some extent, they turned to an attorney and to an insurance agent.  Sorry, Putsy, it is very telling that they didn't come to you for advice. 

Attorneys are great at writing will and setting up trusts.  They are pretty useless when it comes to funding the trusts.  My practice is primarily business owners.  I can't tell you how many times the attorney has put together a useless buy/sell agreement for a client.  It's useless because there isn't a funding mechanism.

When a guy calls from an insurance company saying that your mother has written a $250,000 check for your benefit, and that a woman will be coming by to do an insurance exam you say, "Fine when would you like to do that."

What you do not say is, "What did she buy, what is it going to do for me?"

Baloney.

Biggest problem is that most estate planning attorneys I know think that the life guy oversells everything, and he/she will do it again..........:)

Most HNW folks I know have a team of 3 people:  CPA, attorney,and FA.  The life guy just does what the team tells him to.............

You're full of it, datoo.  Please quit posting your garbage on this site, especially if it's just a bunch of silly, made-up stories. 

The vanguard die-hards might believe this crap, so go find your target (gullible) audience.