EDJ Adv Solutions and Chase Strategic Portfolio
71 RepliesJump to last post
You can bill six months in advance over $500. Just in doing so you are required to send an accounted balance sheet to the State Securities Administrator for review.
my bad
[quote=ytrewq] 1: Noggin. Every time I start to forget you are an idiot you set me straight.
2: B24. Don’t want to pick a fight here but you keep referring to our “wrap” program. Am I sensing you are getting bitter with Jones or do you have a “different” definiton of “wrap”?
3: I hear lots of complaints about many different advisory programs on this site. Most of them revolve around not being able to select securities or do the rebalancing yourself. I cannot even imagine having a decent amount of dollars or accounts in an advisory program and having enough time to do this yourself. Frankly, I am starting to have problems timeblocking the required annual reviews much less monkeying with allocations.[/quote]
No, I actually think the program is pretty good. But it pretty much fits the textbook definition of what the rest of the industry calls a mutual fund wrap program (as opposed to an SMA, a UMA, etc.). Case in point, PNC Financial, who is the back office provider for our program, lists it as their mutual fund wrap program. I don’t think “wrap” is such a bad word, it just describes what the program is (outside our Jones bubble).
My only two challenges with the program are the investment theory (I don’t necessarily like style-box investing) and the lack of flexibility. I prefer more of a core-satellite approach. I would also like to be able to use “global allocation”-type funds (i.e. First Eagle Global, Capital Income Builder, Blackrock Global, IVY Asset Strategy, etc.). And I wish there were more flexibility with allocations. For example, because certain investments fall under Jones’ definition of “aggressive”, you can only use them with a more aggressive portfolio. That might be talking in circles, but commodities are a good example. I don’t want to argue the merits of that asset class, but if I want to allocate 5% to that class, and 5% to small cap growth, I can’t in certain allocations. I just find myself getting hamstrung sometimes. I realize some advisors (as you mentioned above) don’t want to be bothered with certain aspects of investment management, but there are others that place more emphasis on it. Either way, Jones is seriously limiting our flexibility within the program. Despite that, I honestly think it’s a good program for what it intends to accomplish. It has a lot of good features, and will prevent FA’s from getting lazy (well they can still be lazy, but the rebalancing and required reviews are there).
One other thing, ytrewq…I know you take issue with what some people say about investment management at Jones, but I know some huge producers that do primarily SMA business, and then others that make 50 calls a day and sell strictly individual stocks and bonds (which I would personally HATE doing). Remember, Jones preaches that you can run whatever type of business you want…
B24 In the Jones Advisory model can you have funds, ETF's and SMA's in one wrap account?One other thing, ytrewq…I know you take issue with what some people say about investment management at Jones, but I know some huge producers that do primarily SMA business, and then others that make 50 calls a day and sell strictly individual stocks and bonds (which I would personally HATE doing). Remember, Jones preaches that you can run whatever type of business you want…
I am not sure exactly what you mean by "I take issue..people say about investment management at Jones". I am not disagreeing, I just am not sure what you mean. I generally agree with you. Jones says (I think using the word PREACHES is a bit inflammatory but ok) do what you want as long as it is legal, ethical and profitable. In theory, more flexibility is good. In practice many FAs fail because they are "optimizing portfolios" instead of building their business. Also, and I am sure you would agree, the vast majority of FAs would cause more harm than good. As much as FAs are egomaniacs it is unlikely they are "better" than a dedicated team of analysts. On a final note. As you are probably aware, AS is going to continue to evolve. More options, more models, more FA control, and over time a UMA platform. That is if I understand the definition of a UMA. All I wanted for Christmas was a 2010 that was better than 2009. In hindsight, 2009 turned out to be a pretty darn good year.One other thing, ytrewq…I know you take issue with what some people say about investment management at Jones, but I know some huge producers that do primarily SMA business, and then others that make 50 calls a day and sell strictly individual stocks and bonds (which I would personally HATE doing). Remember, Jones preaches that you can run whatever type of business you want…
B24 In the Jones Advisory model can you have funds, ETF's and SMA's in one wrap account?[/quote] No, we have a separate SMA platform. But you can use ETFs and funds in our Advisory model.[quote=B24]One other thing, ytrewq…I know you take issue with what some people say about investment management at Jones, but I know some huge producers that do primarily SMA business, and then others that make 50 calls a day and sell strictly individual stocks and bonds (which I would personally HATE doing). Remember, Jones preaches that you can run whatever type of business you want…
I am not sure exactly what you mean by "I take issue..people say about investment management at Jones". I am not disagreeing, I just am not sure what you mean. I generally agree with you. Jones says (I think using the word PREACHES is a bit inflammatory but ok) do what you want as long as it is legal, ethical and profitable. In theory, more flexibility is good. In practice many FAs fail because they are "optimizing portfolios" instead of building their business. Also, and I am sure you would agree, the vast majority of FAs would cause more harm than good. As much as FAs are egomaniacs it is unlikely they are "better" than a dedicated team of analysts. On a final note. As you are probably aware, AS is going to continue to evolve. More options, more models, more FA control, and over time a UMA platform. That is if I understand the definition of a UMA. All I wanted for Christmas was a 2010 that was better than 2009. In hindsight, 2009 turned out to be a pretty darn good year.[/quote] Y, I agree with you. Most FA's at Jones are not really qualified to run their own portfolios. However, let's not forget that probably 95% of the assets are NOT in managed accounts, and are left to the discretion of the FA (and client). I have seen some pretty bonehead A share/stock/bond portfolios at Jones offices. I think it would be wise to have to "graduate" into using certain programs (like is required at some other firms). Jones does a good job of ferreting out good funds, I just don't necessarily agree with the style-box, buy-and-hold through anything strategy they employ. In fact, some of my worst performing portfolios the past 3 years are my classic American Funds portfolios. My best are my multi-family C share portfolios. Now, I am not claiming to be an analyst, but a lot of what I do is common sense. Do you know how many FA's at Jones thought Bond Fund of America was a good core bond fund? Most of them don't know the difference between corporate bonds and govies. And Apparently Jones didn't either. So what happened? Bond Fund was one of the worst performing bond funds in the entire category, Jones then removes it AFTER they meltdown, and then American Funds changes strategy and makes it a more Treasury-focused fund! Just in time for the Treasury Bubble!!! WTF?! I am just happy I pay attention to what's going on around me, and don't trust Jones implicitly.[quote=B24]One other thing, ytrewq…I know you take issue with what some people say about investment management at Jones, but I know some huge producers that do primarily SMA business, and then others that make 50 calls a day and sell strictly individual stocks and bonds (which I would personally HATE doing). Remember, Jones preaches that you can run whatever type of business you want…
[quote=ytrewq]1: Noggin. Every time I start to forget you are an idiot you set me straight.
2: B24. Don't want to pick a fight here but you keep referring to our "wrap" program. Am I sensing you are getting bitter with Jones or do you have a "different" definiton of "wrap"? 3: I hear lots of complaints about many different advisory programs on this site. Most of them revolve around not being able to select securities or do the rebalancing yourself. I cannot even imagine having a decent amount of dollars or accounts in an advisory program and having enough time to do this yourself. Frankly, I am starting to have problems timeblocking the required annual reviews much less monkeying with allocations.[/quote] Coming from you I will take that as a compliment..... Everytime I see one of your posts, I am reminded of the culture that I left behind. It is the culture that says our way is right without even discussing what the other ways are......Would you mind amplifying this?… In practice many FAs fail because they are “optimizing portfolios” instead of building their business. …
YTREWQ is correct that AS is going to evolve. I was at a meeting recently that included the GP in charge of AS. He said they're already talking about a UMA type of program. He didn't give us a time frame for implementation, but I can't help but think that with the success of AS, that they aren't seriously looking at being able to put even more investments under the fee based umbrella. And doing it as quickly as possible. I would imagine in the next 4-5 years we'll have the ability to run a fee based account that includes pretty much everything we can sell. The only hesitation the GP had was when someone asked him about indidvidual bonds.
Would you mind amplifying this? [/quote] I think what he means is that too many new FAs spend a ton of time worrying about which funds to buy, or whether UITs are better than funds, or whether 15% or 20% international is the optimum amount of international exposure. They spend hours "designing" a portfolio for a prospect. And they customize it for every single new prospect. I've been guilty of that, so I know what he's talking about. I would spend hours on a $100k portfolio to get it just right before I showed it to a prospect. Those were hours I should have been spending creating new relationships or fostering existing ones. Instead I was staring at my computer.[quote=ytrewq]… In practice many FAs fail because they are “optimizing portfolios” instead of building their business. …
Would you mind amplifying this? [/quote] In practice many FAs fail because they are "optimizing portfolios" instead of building their business There. It is now amplified. In all serious, did you mean explain what I meant or stress it even more? serious=seriousness. B24. I wholeheartedly agree with the ABNDX example. I search for the positive. Jones took a position this time. Late but atleast they took a position. Times they are a changing. Noggin, my dig was meant with nothing but love. I am a changed man. Well, not that changed.[quote=ytrewq]… In practice many FAs fail because they are “optimizing portfolios” instead of building their business. …
ytrewq is NOT a new man! He is sooooooo mean!
Hey, my time at Jones was limited. But the time I did spend there, they made horrible investment decisions. It is possible that I’m only remembering the bad stuff, but I seriously can’t think of a single good call Alan & Co. made.
OK Moraen. You gotta make me call you out too? I am trying so hard to play well with others in this new year. Jones made "horrible" investment decisions? Asking my first (and ex) wife to marry me was a horrible decision. Not bad or misguided. Horrible. Jones has made some bad decisions but not "horrible". Atleast not compared to my "horrible" decisions. To change the topic a small bit, I would like to become much more of an Advisor and less of a Broker. I would really like to know about the Advisory business's FAs here have built. How large they are, how they built it, and how long it took. Moraen, as an RIA (or IAR), how big is your fee based book and how did you build it? I understand if you (or anyone else) doesn't want to post actual numbers but I would like to hear your best ideas and steal them. Maybe a seperate thread were we all played Rodney King and got along?ytrewq is NOT a new man! He is sooooooo mean!
Hey, my time at Jones was limited. But the time I did spend there, they made horrible investment decisions. It is possible that I’m only remembering the bad stuff, but I seriously can’t think of a single good call Alan & Co. made.
OK Moraen. You gotta make me call you out too? I am trying so hard to play well with others in this new year. Jones made "horrible" investment decisions? Asking my first (and ex) wife to marry me was a horrible decision. Not bad or misguided. Horrible. Jones has made some bad decisions but not "horrible". Atleast not compared to my "horrible" decisions. To change the topic a small bit, I would like to become much more of an Advisor and less of a Broker. I would really like to know about the Advisory business's FAs here have built. How large they are, how they built it, and how long it took. Moraen, as an RIA (or IAR), how big is your fee based book and how did you build it? I understand if you (or anyone else) doesn't want to post actual numbers but I would like to hear your best ideas and steal them. Maybe a seperate thread were we all played Rodney King and got along? [/quote][quote=Moraen]ytrewq is NOT a new man! He is sooooooo mean!
Hey, my time at Jones was limited. But the time I did spend there, they made horrible investment decisions. It is possible that I’m only remembering the bad stuff, but I seriously can’t think of a single good call Alan & Co. made.
Telling people to hang on to Lehman brother's bonds three days before they go bankrupt because they "absolutely have no liquidity issues, no matter what you stupid FA's think" (Mario DeRose at a meeting of my region) was pretty horrible. The rest were probably misguided I will concede.
I'll PM you my actual AUM, versus firm AUM and then also my cut. I've also been working some different things going on that are not necessarily "typical" financial advising stuff. I'll key you in on that too in a PM.
He called us stupid? Them thars fightin’ words. I thought you were long gone from Jones by the time Lehman went under? PM in a bit.
This is something I just don't understand. Jones isn't trying to make "calls" on the market. It is obvious before you even arrive in St. Louis that Jones isn't trying to train you to make "calls" on the market. They clearly preach a long term investment philosophy. You actually think they are going to send out a wire, "ALL FA's WHO HAVE LEHMAN BONDS IN THEIR BOOK MUST SELL THEM AT THE MARKET PRICE TODAY, THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO ZERO." Come on. That is a ridiculous expectation for any firm. Any advisor or firm who thinks they can consistently get in front of events like that is lying to themselves and their clients.ytrewq is NOT a new man! He is sooooooo mean!
Hey, my time at Jones was limited. But the time I did spend there, they made horrible investment decisions. It is possible that I’m only remembering the bad stuff, but I seriously can’t think of a single good call Alan & Co. made.
This is something I just don't understand. Jones isn't trying to make "calls" on the market. It is obvious before you even arrive in St. Louis that Jones isn't trying to train you to make "calls" on the market. They clearly preach a long term investment philosophy. You actually think they are going to send out a wire, "ALL FA's WHO HAVE LEHMAN BONDS IN THEIR BOOK MUST SELL THEM AT THE MARKET PRICE TODAY, THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO ZERO." Come on. That is a ridiculous expectation for any firm. Any advisor or firm who thinks they can consistently get in front of events like that is lying to themselves and their clients.[quote=Moraen]ytrewq is NOT a new man! He is sooooooo mean!
Hey, my time at Jones was limited. But the time I did spend there, they made horrible investment decisions. It is possible that I’m only remembering the bad stuff, but I seriously can’t think of a single good call Alan & Co. made.
When FAs are genuinely concerned and ask a direct question, they don't expect a lie. I never could stomach my commanders lying in the military and I don't expect it now.
I guess that's why I'm on my own.
No, I haven't been gone from Jones long. Long enough that most of the bitterness of my unique experience has faded (talk about a peace offering!).
I actually left the next week (haha!). The exit had been a year in the making.
Ron - I do realize that if Jones sent out wires like that it could potentially move the market. But you expect our fixed income expert to have a little more insight. But now I'm my own fixed income expert, and have no one to blame but myself when things go wrong
[/quote]