BEST CLOSES or Techniques
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[quote=wind3574]
Johnny - Yes Jones still has the aggregation rule....I'm only actually investing about $300,000 of the Tax free account.....He does have some good stuff in it..I'm not selling everything...I've spoken with compliance already....It's not an issue... [/quote] Why would you feel the need to all compliance?I always work with compliance, to make sure there will be no issues…Same reason you asked me about the aggregation rule…
What I am about to say will be taken as criticism, however it is not. Take it how you want. You don't know what you don't know. Your concentration on showing people what is wrong with their portfolio seems to center on costs. Great. You pulled out the EDJ playbook. You will never be the cheapest and clients that are gained using your techniques will leave you in the blink of an eye when your portfolio hits a rough patch because someone else will show them "what is wrong" with their portfolio and a lower cost. You set this into motion when you pitched them your process. This is weak and you will suffer for it. You state that you will make house calls and always be there for clients. Wait until you get a book built. You will not be able to live up to the service expectations you are setting. There are not enough hours in the day. The sooner you start underpromising and overdelivering the better off you will be. I will take you at face value that you are having the success you are and say that you are getting these clients because you are promising them something that you can deliver today, but won't be able to as your success grows. Clients will not understand that you have gotten busy. They will expect the constant attention you are promising and most likely will give in the beginning. When this stops, they will leave. B shares do not cost an additional 2%. They don't. It does not matter when it was bought or when it converts, if it is wrong for a client sell it. Period. Right now you can actually save them some money being the fund values are most likely down. I highly doubt they were in a 4% wrap account. If someone from SB wants to correct me feel free. What you have done though will likely cost the client far more by transferring the stock portfolio in kind. Now you have to run the portfolio without any idea of what purpose it was used for or the strategy behind it. I have yet to meet a newb (or many vets) that have the time or skill to do this effectively. You could have had it liquidated without commission at the previous firm and put them with a money manager that will accomplish your objective for this money. I also highly doubt bonds were transferred into the portfolio to collect a fee. You can't do that at my firm. Again, anyone from SB can correct me. I always found amusement with people that bitched about C shares and then sold UIT's. Seems to be a conflict there. A share class that charges 75 bps above an A share is unnecesary, but a UIT that charges more is a good deal? Peoples problem with you on this site has nothing to do with your success, it has to do with your "look at me" attitude. Stop posting your age, city, production screen and any other personal details. EDJ has a policy against posting on this forum. Learn a little humility and keep working hard and you will be just fine.Ironhorse, you might want to re-read the post. He has 3 accounts. One Trust account, One IRA with single stock positions, and One IRA with bonds and bond funds. There were no mutual funds in the managed account.
Sam - the account was $300,000 roughly and he was paying $3000 a quarter in “Advisory Fees”, is how it was listed on the statement. If you do the math $3,000 x 4 = 12,000/$300,000 = 4%. Thats why I transferred it over, that sort of thing pisses me off, especially transferring bonds over into the managed account just to take 4% of his income from those as well. Here are his 3 postions
IRA = Single stocks , and they transferred his bonds into it…$300,000 (Managed w/ 4% fee)
IRA = $200,000 bond funds and some really crappy tech funds B, C, & Class T shares
Trust = $500,000 in bonds and mutual funds…B and C shares
This is why I do things this way. When people see how they are being screwed, they typically just want it out of wherever it is and they ask for your advice. Then you have the opportunity to build a relationship with them, because they want it…
We are breaking it into…
IRA = Stock positions/ Equity Mutual funds
IRA = Bond positions/Bond Funds
Trust = Tax Free Money Market, Tax Free Bonds, Tax Free UIT’s, and Tax Free Bond Funds…(He lives off the income from this account)
Mike - It does sound fishy…Thats why I transfered it.
What I am about to say will be taken as criticism, however it is not. Take it how you want. You don't know what you don't know. Your concentration on showing people what is wrong with their portfolio seems to center on costs. Great. You pulled out the EDJ playbook. You will never be the cheapest and clients that are gained using your techniques will leave you in the blink of an eye when your portfolio hits a rough patch because someone else will show them "what is wrong" with their portfolio and a lower cost. You set this into motion when you pitched them your process. This is weak and you will suffer for it. You state that you will make house calls and always be there for clients. Wait until you get a book built. You will not be able to live up to the service expectations you are setting. There are not enough hours in the day. The sooner you start underpromising and overdelivering the better off you will be. I will take you at face value that you are having the success you are and say that you are getting these clients because you are promising them something that you can deliver today, but won't be able to as your success grows. Clients will not understand that you have gotten busy. They will expect the constant attention you are promising and most likely will give in the beginning. When this stops, they will leave. B shares do not cost an additional 2%. They don't. It does not matter when it was bought or when it converts, if it is wrong for a client sell it. Period. Right now you can actually save them some money being the fund values are most likely down. I highly doubt they were in a 4% wrap account. If someone from SB wants to correct me feel free. What you have done though will likely cost the client far more by transferring the stock portfolio in kind. Now you have to run the portfolio without any idea of what purpose it was used for or the strategy behind it. I have yet to meet a newb (or many vets) that have the time or skill to do this effectively. You could have had it liquidated without commission at the previous firm and put them with a money manager that will accomplish your objective for this money. I also highly doubt bonds were transferred into the portfolio to collect a fee. You can't do that at my firm. Again, anyone from SB can correct me. I always found amusement with people that bitched about C shares and then sold UIT's. Seems to be a conflict there. A share class that charges 75 bps above an A share is unnecesary, but a UIT that charges more is a good deal? Peoples problem with you on this site has nothing to do with your success, it has to do with your "look at me" attitude. Stop posting your age, city, production screen and any other personal details. EDJ has a policy against posting on this forum. Learn a little humility and keep working hard and you will be just fine.[/quote][quote=wind3574]Ironhorse, you might want to re-read the post. He has 3 accounts. One Trust account, One IRA with single stock positions, and One IRA with bonds and bond funds. There were no mutual funds in the managed account.
Sam - the account was $300,000 roughly and he was paying $3000 a quarter in “Advisory Fees”, is how it was listed on the statement. If you do the math $3,000 x 4 = 12,000/$300,000 = 4%. Thats why I transferred it over, that sort of thing pisses me off, especially transferring bonds over into the managed account just to take 4% of his income from those as well. Here are his 3 postions
IRA = Single stocks , and they transferred his bonds into it…$300,000 (Managed w/ 4% fee)
IRA = $200,000 bond funds and some really crappy tech funds B, C, & Class T shares
Trust = $500,000 in bonds and mutual funds…B and C shares
This is why I do things this way. When people see how they are being screwed, they typically just want it out of wherever it is and they ask for your advice. Then you have the opportunity to build a relationship with them, because they want it…
We are breaking it into…
IRA = Stock positions/ Equity Mutual funds
IRA = Bond positions/Bond Funds
Trust = Tax Free Money Market, Tax Free Bonds, Tax Free UIT’s, and Tax Free Bond Funds…(He lives off the income from this account)
Mike - It does sound fishy…Thats why I transfered it.
I dont post my …name…city…blah blah…Someone else did that…and I have contacted the admin in the forum for that…
My conversations with clients and prospects do not center on costs…That is simply a way to get the customer to listen to me. My conversations are built on relationships. I understand having a book of business is hard to keep in contact with everyone, that being said I know people who do it and I plan to be one of those people. The problem with everyone in this forum is that most of you have this “I can’t do it, so you can’t” attitude. Every piece of criticism I have gotten was because they couldn’t, no one can.
It was a 4% wrap fee. Believe that if you want to, or don’t. I’m the one handling it so it doesn’t matter if you think thats true. And Bonds WERE transferred from one account to the other…Thats per the client, Not me and confirmed through past statements. See another thing about your post is that you don’t have a clue about the whole situation, so don’t criticize (and yes, you can add the disclaimer that you aren’t, but you are). I already spoke with this client about selling the stocks prior to transfer, He however didn’t want to do that. Not my choice.
B Shares - It does matter and they do cost more. When your in a B share for 7 years that charges 1.91% annual fee?..How is that not more than maybe .24 a or a .76 over the long haul?
I’m not going to dispute this crap anymore…It sounds like you guys don’t have anything better to do than to bash people who are doing well…get off your ass and go see people…and maybe you could continue to make house calls…I’m done with this forum…Grow up guys…seriously…
I can't imagine one would need to have had alot of contact with compliance over the course of a 3 month career. I don't see what there would be an issue with in this case, unless of course someone would have side-stepped the aggregation rule, knew it, and wanted to see if he needed an LOA signed prior to the trade as opposed to getting an FSPEND and returning to the client after the fact to obtain it. I haven't sold an IMIT or a MUT in years. What are the breakpoints on those these days? The next broker that comes along looking at the EDJ statement with long IMITs under water might be able to shoot some holes in a portfolio like that if the client were conditioned to be focused solely on fees and performance only is all I'm saying.I always work with compliance, to make sure there will be no issues…Same reason you asked me about the aggregation rule…
Hey Slappy, I tried to be nice. There is a large number of clients who are willing to listen and will take the "cost" bait in a bear market. You need to do things that work in bull market also as they occasionally happen. But you have been in the business for 3 months now so you've got it figured out. Sorry. You are very thin skinned for this business. Color Key: Blue=Sam All other colors=WindyI dont post my .IF you didn’t see the numbers…sorry…but they were posted…. …name…city.I live in Oklahoma City…blah blah…That could come off as arrogant, but i can tell ya, i am only 25 and beginning my career. I have a B.A and an M.B.A. It would definitly help me to have it on there…Someone else did that…and I have contacted the admin in the forum for that… Those were your posts.
My conversations with clients and prospects do not center on costs…It’s easy for a nice looking, very personable, small town boy, who graduated from a local Big 12 college to come in and swoop accounts out from under an advisor with $100M book, who hardly calls them and charges them a wrap fee…… I tell them that I have done alot of reviews and it seems that alot of people in the neighborhood have been paying un-necessary fees on their account and that there have been some better deserving investments that should have been placed in their portfolios The main thing i focus on is not throwing up on them with what I can do for them. They don’t care what I can do. That is until you give them a review and you make them see what is wrong with their portfolio (Fees, bad investments, etc). …That is simply a way to get the customer to listen to me. My conversations are built on relationships. You think this, however you cast the die on the doorknock. I understand having a book of business is hard to keep in contact with everyone, that being said I know people who do it and I plan to be one of those people. The problem with everyone in this forum is that most of you have this “I can’t do it, so you can’t” attitude. Every piece of criticism I have gotten was because they couldn’t, no one can. You will find out, don’t say I didn’t warn you.
It was a 4% wrap fee. Believe that if you want to, or don’t. I’m the one handling it so it doesn’t matter if you think thats true. And Bonds WERE transferred from one account to the other…Thats per the client, Not me and confirmed through past statements. See another thing about your post is that you don’t have a clue about the whole situation, so don’t criticize (and yes, you can add the disclaimer that you aren’t, but you are). I already spoke with this client about selling the stocks prior to transfer, He however didn’t want to do that. Not my choice. This absolutely proves my point. He moved to avoid the fee because you told him it was “soooooooo” bad, not for your advice. You will lose him for exactly the same reason some day.
B Shares - It does matter and they do cost more. When your in a B share for 7 years that charges 1.91% annual fee?..How is that not more than maybe .24 a or a .76 over the long haul? Please educate me, what B share (symbol) @1.91% compared to what A share @.24%?
I’m not going to dispute this crap anymore…It sounds like you guys don’t have anything better to do than to bash people who are doing well…get off your ass and go see people…and maybe you could continue to make house calls…I’m done with this forum…Grow up guys…seriously…
Ok, back to closing arguments. I learned one yesterday I’m going to try out.
"Try my split-strike conversion strategy. You’ll be happy. Trust me."
I think the fee is slightly higher than 4%.
I’m just going to come out and say what everyone is thinking… DJ WIND, you are a liar!
Do you honestly expect anyone to believe the crap you are posting. Lightening strikes once, maybe even twice, but dude you hit a home run every single time. WHATEVER BROTHER!
You’ve spent the entire day posting in the forum - I spent the entire day door knocking. Enjoy goals soon.
Dorian is the only newbie I know that can tell the stories Windy claims. You know Dorian don’t you Windy?
I'm shocked! I don't doubt you know who he is. I don't know who he is, I just know he's full of BS. I was a Pacesetter at EDJ, worked hard, knocked doors, got my nose bloodied and neither I, nor anyone else at the time - even the superstars were even close to putting up these numbers with this amount of ease. I would be interested to know how many new/news as a % are Pacesetters these days. I remember Bob Gregory, John Bachmann or someone giving us a talk at the Pacesetter awards meeting remarking how "Pacesetters" were the backbone of the company. The good old days - probably the last Pacesetter class to stay at the World Trade Center (Marriott?).I know just who this guy is … he ain’t doing it. Trust me!
Wind's approach sounds like the old A.L. Williams (Primerica) kitchen table slam....
Convince the client that the existing rep is screwing them and stealing their money. That you are the White Knight and going to work for free.
Also, depending on the portfolio makeup - a comparison of the fee as a percentage of the dividends/interest may be misleading. If the portfolio is growth oriented - there may not be dividends to compare against. What's the dividend yield on AGTHX?
Sam is right - this type of approach may be successful in the short run - but, be prepared to lose those clients during the next downturn. What would be interesting to hear is - after you have pointed out all of these bad investments - what you would have done during that same time frame?[quote=maddog]
Sam is right - this type of approach may be successful in the short run - but, be prepared to lose those clients during the next downturn. [/quote]Wind will be 70 the next time we have a downturn like this.
[quote=buyandhold] [quote=maddog]
Sam is right - this type of approach may be successful in the short run - but, be prepared to lose those clients during the next downturn. [/quote]Wind will be 70 the next time we have a downturn like this.[/quote] What? - the market only cycles every 70 years?
[quote=wind3574]
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Posted: 11 March 2009 at 11:49pm I was just curious if any other EDJ rookies are having great success? I just posted a $10,000 gross day. Makes me love my job... Well, I typically don't post on this site until late night after work. I don't usually spend my days posting...but i am away from town for a week.....In any event...The fee WAS 4%. The client even called the Advisor on it and the Advisor said, "Oh well, we can cut that in half", sh*t 2% is still rediculas.....so he transfered the account to me. the clients question to the advisor was "Why did you do this 5 years after I started this, why not earlier? Why address this after I find out"...The advisor even admitted it......So questioning it is not really necessary...I may be new but I can read a statement ya know? Johnny - Yes Jones still has the aggregation rule....I'm only actually investing about $300,000 of the Tax free account.....He does have some good stuff in it..I'm not selling everything...I've spoken with compliance already....It's not an issue... I'm just getting alot of "are you sure's"...I'm new guys but I'd like to think I'm brighter than the average joe...ya know? [/quote] How did you have $10,000 day, while not being at work this week? I'm sure there will be some excuse, but if this is not an indication that he is lying, I don't know what is.
[quote=wind3574]Yes…I have had a few clients who I pointed out that they were paying major fees, but had an ok portfolio, so we just transferred over… The managed account was a Lord Abbot managed account through Smith Barney. the fee was 4%. absolutely rediculas…
As far as B shares go, it just depends on how long they have had them. If its long enough well sell them, or if they are decent enough to hold onto then we can wait for them to convert. Some people might pay less to sell out now, rather than pay 2% per year for another 3 or 4 years....how do you not know this stuff?[/quote]Wind -
how long have you been in the business, a week? If i told you that Marilyn Monroe had a d*** would you believe that too?
SB, or any other company which is at all legitimate, doesnt charge 4% for a managed account. The max is 3%, and nobody, i mean nobody has charged 3% in 10 years. Most charge 1-1.5%.
Get your facts straight. And wake up and realize that half the time clients and prospects dont know what the hell they are talking about.
I suppose you quoted the client 3% and figure they will think thats a steal.
I have been really successful with pointing out everything wrong with their current portfolio. Once they realize they are getting screwed, either by bad investments or wrap fees/high mutual fund fees
wind is a tool. wont be in biz in 3 years. used car salesmen
a. advise people as if it was your mom's money-NO exceptions.
b. listen to people.
c. never trash other guy. focus on what YOU can do for them
d. be humble. "Great question, I have no idea the answer. I will find out."
e. set very very very low expectations. under sell. set them up for worst case.
f. focus long term
g. learn stocks and bonds. get into a wrap program where YOU run the money as quickly as you can. (you CAN do it) Stocks/bond/cash-period
h. qualify (so HARD) you CANT waste your time with peanuts. qualifing is very hard. if you dont, you wont make it. big people are SCARY. you must overcome this fear.
i. find out as QUICK as you can whether some one REALLY could be your client. (so HARD). ask this question. "Could you become my client?" very hard to do.
Will save you so much time.
j. ask for the order. (very hard).
if they say yes. STFU.
go for it.
k. repeat (a) above ever single day.
[quote=Sportsfreakbob] [quote=wind3574]Yes…I have had a few clients who I pointed out that they were paying major fees, but had an ok portfolio, so we just transferred over… The managed account was a Lord Abbot managed account through Smith Barney. the fee was 4%. absolutely rediculas…
As far as B shares go, it just depends on how long they have had them. If its long enough well sell them, or if they are decent enough to hold onto then we can wait for them to convert. Some people might pay less to sell out now, rather than pay 2% per year for another 3 or 4 years....how do you not know this stuff?[/quote]Wind -
how long have you been in the business, a week? If i told you that Marilyn Monroe had a d*** would you believe that too?
SB, or any other company which is at all legitimate, doesnt charge 4% for a managed account. The max is 3%, and nobody, i mean nobody has charged 3% in 10 years. Most charge 1-1.5%.
Get your facts straight. And wake up and realize that half the time clients and prospects dont know what the hell they are talking about.
I suppose you quoted the client 3% and figure they will think thats a steal.
[/quote] It gets better than that. Not only did he see it on a statement, but they called the other advisor about it. Plus the other advisor had transferred bonds into the account to collect the "4%" fee on those also.