Any Edward Jones veterans here
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Why is it that you dont mention ML, Wachovia, UBS? I dont understand how anyone who is intelligent, and obviously the original poster to this thread is, would consider EJ, and think they have more to offer than SB. But if it seems that SB is in dissarray (which admittedly they are right now, but that will chanage), why not look at another alternative that offers a broader platform? If you are against the wirehouess in general, which lots of folks are, then why not explore hooking up with an independent office, till you build enough to open your own. LPL, from what I understand, and Commonwealth, and others, offer broader platforms than Jones.
The questions I would be asking, considering the market we are operating in, are: 1. what is EJ;s rational in not offerring a broad array of fee based platforms. 2. wha is your lending platform, 3. what is your insurance plaform, your estate planning platform, etc, etc. You get the picture. If you want to build a truly transactional business, go to Jones. But unless you have a truly amazing Rolodex, I think it will be difficult at best for you to bring in clients who are willing to pay you $300 in commission or more for your stock ideas.
JMHO
[quote=pratoman]
If you are against the wirehouess in general, which lots of folks are, then why not explore hooking up with an independent office, till you build enough to open your own. LPL, from what I understand, and Commonwealth, and others, offer broader platforms than Jones.
The questions I would be asking, considering the market we are operating in, are: 1. what is EJ;s rational in not offerring a broad array of fee based platforms. 2. wha is your lending platform, 3. what is your insurance plaform, your estate planning platform, etc, etc. You get the picture. If you want to build a truly transactional business, go to Jones. But unless you have a truly amazing Rolodex, I think it will be difficult at best for you to bring in clients who are willing to pay you $300 in commission or more for your stock ideas.
JMHO
[/quote]I would love to hook up with an Independent office right out the door. Trust me, I have been pounding the Internet hard for any and all information of indy's in my local area.
Since then I have on my own set up interviews with AG Edwards (I know they are in limbo with the Wachovia deal, but that actually makes it rather interesting. Sometimes when the dust settles, you find an opportunity where others flee to other pastures.), Prudential, and Beneficial Financial Group
And yes, I am not interested in working for a wirehouse.
[quote=pratoman]
The questions I would be asking, considering the market we are operating in, are: 1. what is EJ;s rational in not offerring a broad array of fee based platforms.
[/quote]
That I haven't figured out, and I haven't received a satisfactory answer. What I am trying to understand is the rationale behind why a wrap account would be considered unethical. If I am meeting with my clients quarterly to review their portfolio together with them, and I am taking their calls which I am sure would average at least 15 minutes a piece over the course of the year, and any protectionary measures I may feel inclined to take (with their blessing) to get them out of a bad investment costs my time, and that is what I am charging them for.
So a 200K portfolio with a 1% fee per annum is $2000.
If I am lucky(depending on which firm I work for) I get 40% of that which is $800.00
4 one hour meetings, average 1 15minute phone call per month and maybe 2 transactional changes during the year which take another 1 including any paperwork, verification, etc.
That equals 4+1+ (.25 X 12)= 8 hours total.
$800/8= $100 per hour. That IMO is a pretty good deal. My lawyer and Accountant charge between $200 and $400 per hour.
Now if you pull in a 500K account which is the minimum to be a part of EJ's MAP than you are talking about $250 per hour1000K= $500 per hour
this is assuming that you are only putting in 8 hours a year serving each account. Now common sense would show that you are probably spending a bit more time in your stewardship over a 1000K account than a 200K account. By doubling your hours to 16 for a 1000K account you are down to $250 per hour in management fee.
The 60% taken by the house is what I would equate to infrastructure and overhead expense. Nothing strange about that either.
So with an AUM of 20M consisting of 80 accounts you would have an average cost of $125 per hour given you spent 8 hours per client which would be 640 hours which translates to 80 work days. Hmmm, I wonder since you are spending all that time acquiring new accounts, and working the ones you have, what the effective hourly rate would be. Being generous and assuming you actually work only 8 hour days, and take two weeks vacation and don't work any weekends ever. Assuming that you can kill another two weeks due to holidays, you would have 240 work days left. Having that as your base, your effective hourly rate for helping your customers would be:
240 days @ 8 hours per work day = 1 920 hours
total fee for a 20M AUM portfolio of 80 accounts with a payout of .40 of 1% per annum = $80 000
$80 000/1 920= $41.67 per hour.
How can anyone complain that this is unethical? Even if you went Indy and kept .85 you would still only be making $88.54 per hour
To answer some of the questions regarding th Jones advisory fee
platform…it has been confirmed that it will be a mutual fund advisory fee
service. It will likely be 100 bps or less (probably 75 bps). I think they
will offer any MFD company to create a special share class to be used in
this account. Chances are, it will only end up being the preferred
families. That part is just my own speculation. I think they are waiting
for the 12b-1 & Merrill Rule dust to settle before they roll it out. They
want to make sure they don’t &$^% it up.
None of this is scientific evidence, other than it has been stated by
Weddle that it will be a MFD Advisory Account.
[quote=DJRoss]
[quote=pratoman]
If you are against the wirehouess in general, which lots of folks are, then why not explore hooking up with an independent office, till you build enough to open your own. LPL, from what I understand, and Commonwealth, and others, offer broader platforms than Jones.
The questions I would be asking, considering the market we are operating in, are: 1. what is EJ;s rational in not offerring a broad array of fee based platforms. 2. wha is your lending platform, 3. what is your insurance plaform, your estate planning platform, etc, etc. You get the picture. If you want to build a truly transactional business, go to Jones. But unless you have a truly amazing Rolodex, I think it will be difficult at best for you to bring in clients who are willing to pay you $300 in commission or more for your stock ideas.
JMHO
[/quote]I would love to hook up with an Independent office right out the door. Trust me, I have been pounding the Internet hard for any and all information of indy's in my local area.
Since then I have on my own set up interviews with AG Edwards (I know they are in limbo with the Wachovia deal, but that actually makes it rather interesting. Sometimes when the dust settles, you find an opportunity where others flee to other pastures.), Prudential, and Beneficial Financial Group
And yes, I am not interested in working for a wirehouse.
[/quote]
Ummm....did anyone point out to you that AGE is a wirehouse?
Let me clarify, when I say wirehouse, I am referring to playing stock jockey in a cubicle stuffing yesterdays pizza down my throat wondering why I am padding my mentors account at 8 p.m on a friday evening.
In all reality, every business in this industry with any reputation is a wirehouse since communications and information networks are connected…Well I take that back, EJ hasn’t embraced IT to that extent yet. I am still not sure if they have all received their own email accounts.
[quote=DJRoss]Let me clarify, when I say wirehouse, I am referring to playing stock jockey in a cubicle stuffing yesterdays pizza down my throat wondering why I am padding my mentors account at 8 p.m on a friday evening.
In all reality, every business in this industry with any reputation is a wirehouse since communications and information networks are connected…Well I take that back, EJ hasn’t embraced IT to that extent yet. I am still not sure if they have all received their own email accounts.
[/quote]
Well, you’re using a completely different definition of the term than the rest of us.
this is the definition I am thinking of:
National or international brokerage firm whose branch offices are
linked by a communications system that permits the rapid dissemination
of prices, information, and research relating to financial markets and
individual securities. Although smaller retail and regional brokers
currently have access to similar data, the designation of a firm as a
wire house dates back to the time when only the largest organizations
had access to high-speed communications. Therefore, wire house still is used to refer to the biggest brokerage houses.
GS
MS
ML
LB
BS
are all nationals with caps of 20B or greater
AGE is a regional with a cap of around 6B of course with WB acquiring them, that will change things dramatically. Question is if WB will create a separate entity and what that will be valued at.
[quote=DJRoss]Let me clarify, when I say wirehouse, I am referring to playing stock jockey in a cubicle stuffing yesterdays pizza down my throat wondering why I am padding my mentors account at 8 p.m on a friday evening.
In all reality, every business in this industry with any reputation is a wirehouse since communications and information networks are connected...Well I take that back, EJ hasn't embraced IT to that extent yet. I am still not sure if they have all received their own email accounts.
[/quote]
And what exactly qualifies that statement? When was the last time you worked in the Jones system? Or is it just based on what you have heard from former Jones brokers that have not been here in years? They have made so many improvements in the past year, and they are making new improvements to the system every single month. I have worked for other large companies in the past, but I have never seen a company this size move so quickly in such a short amount of time (after lying dormant on technology for 30 years).
As I write this, I have been playing with my new Palm Treo, and am able to access JCMS (contact management system) on it. I can see my calendar, my accounts & prospects, and make real-time changes that don't need to be synched. That is just one of the many new changes we have received oevr the past year (and yes, we all have e-mail, though many advisors have not embraced it yet).
[quote=Broker24]
[quote=DJRoss]Let me clarify, when I say wirehouse, I am referring to playing stock jockey in a cubicle stuffing yesterdays pizza down my throat wondering why I am padding my mentors account at 8 p.m on a friday evening.
In all reality, every business in this industry with any reputation is a wirehouse since communications and information networks are connected…Well I take that back, EJ hasn’t embraced IT to that extent yet. I am still not sure if they have all received their own email accounts.
[/quote]
And what exactly qualifies that statement? When was the last time you worked in the Jones system? Or is it just based on what you have heard from former Jones brokers that have not been here in years? They have made so many improvements in the past year, and they are making new improvements to the system every single month. I have worked for other large companies in the past, but I have never seen a company this size move so quickly in such a short amount of time (after lying dormant on technology for 30 years).
As I write this, I have been playing with my new Palm Treo, and am able to access JCMS (contact management system) on it. I can see my calendar, my accounts & prospects, and make real-time changes that don't need to be synched. That is just one of the many new changes we have received oevr the past year (and yes, we all have e-mail, though many advisors have not embraced it yet).
[/quote]I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intent. I was basing this off of several EJ FA's that I have talked to leading up to my answering their request for interview. I have actually passed the second interview and have to call someone to discuss marketing issues. Once my background check is finalized than they will call me to set up a face to face with an FA. Since I have already had several discussions with the local RL in my region, they said I would probably be interviewed by someone else. Regardless, I have been led to believe by these individuals that EJ has not embraced IT to the extant their competitors have. As you explain yourself, there are FA's that have not "embraced" their corporate email accounts.
Again I apologize if I struck a nerve. It was not my intention.
BTW, I have since had my initial interview with Prudential. If it weren't for the proprietary products, I can imagine myself working there. I may yet decide to do so. They do pay 54 basis points on AUM, and their Life, LTC and Term policies are among the best in the industry.
I had my initial interview with AGE today as well. I kind of set it up backwards. I called to inquire, manager called me in to interview, and I have to send him my resume with salary history. He was a pretty cool guy. White haired with bushy mustache. (LOL I got the Abraham Lincoln thing going with the beard though closer to the jaw). We must have looked like two throw backs from another era. In any case, he was clear, concise, and easy to talk to. He made me promise that I would speak to my wife at least 5 times during the interview regarding the burden it would be for us to have me working 12 hour days and going through a couple of dog years while I set up my business.
I admit a big part of me was enticed by the prospects of training through AGE. Their product breadth is outstanding, and with Wachovia pending, their product assortment should just get bigger.
Well once I send him my resume and salary history we go to the next step which is taking the 8th grade math test and the personality test.
Thursday I have my initial interview with a local outfit that has no proprietary products.
I have made up my mind to decline Waddell & Reed. I can't see that as being a legitimate option.
Here we are, 2007, and broke24 reiterates "we have e-mail". Hell has frozen over. Okay, everyone lock the doors to YOUR office and quit. Jones now has e-mail....they're on a freakin roll...they will destroy everyone because they now have e-mail and broke24 can sinc his freakin treo...I have a dream, I dream about e-mail...and doorknockin with my new treo...be able to put into my prospects notes..."knocked on Ms Jones door, she barely opened it...I tried to introduce myself and she told me to go f myself and get the hell off my porch". A todo...call in two weeks and see if she remembers me at her door, and see if I can get her to buy a muni."
[quote=bspears]
Here we are, 2007, and broke24 reiterates "we have e-mail". Hell has frozen over. Okay, everyone lock the doors to YOUR office and quit. Jones now has e-mail....they're on a freakin roll...they will destroy everyone because they now have e-mail and broke24 can sinc his freakin treo...I have a dream, I dream about e-mail...and doorknockin with my new treo...be able to put into my prospects notes..."knocked on Ms Jones door, she barely opened it...I tried to introduce myself and she told me to go f myself and get the hell off my porch". A todo...call in two weeks and see if she remembers me at her door, and see if I can get her to buy a muni."
[/quote]
I wish that you were funny, however, you are merely sad. You are like the old girlfriend that you see at the grocery store, what happened to her? I keep looking for a post from you that actually has nothing to do with EJ......
To the original poster.
You sound very intelligent. Certainly a plus for an FA starting a career. I am sure your life experience, owning a business and probably having many contacts, will serve you well wherever you end up. And its good that you are doing all this due dilligence.
With that said, I have never seen one poster post so many loooonnnnggg messages. Where do you find the time? You are really (over?)thinking this thing. You cant know everything about a firm before you take a job. You are going to have to take some risk. Go with your gut. Thats it. then just do it. I have seem many FA trainees come into the biz and suffer paralysis by analysis. Be careful. NUF said.
[quote=pratoman]
To the original poster.
You sound very intelligent. Certainly a plus for an FA starting a career. I am sure your life experience, owning a business and probably having many contacts, will serve you well wherever you end up. And its good that you are doing all this due dilligence.
With that said, I have never seen one poster post so many loooonnnnggg messages. Where do you find the time? You are really (over?)thinking this thing. You cant know everything about a firm before you take a job. You are going to have to take some risk. Go with your gut. Thats it. then just do it. I have seem many FA trainees come into the biz and suffer paralysis by analysis. Be careful. NUF said.
[/quote]LOL
I use to own and manage a free lance journalism boutique in Sweden. Had lots of contracts working with copy in English, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish, Italian, German, Spanish, etc.
I have been writing articles for the last 12 years. So add touch typing, together with someone who is used to getting thoughts out quickly and you have longer posts. At the time this post was started, 45 seconds has transpired.
Keep lookin....but don't take your eye off the inventory screens. You made need to print a call list and hit the phones...Good luck and Good Selling...
[quote=bspears]
Here we are, 2007, and broke24 reiterates "we have e-mail". Hell has frozen over. Okay, everyone lock the doors to YOUR office and quit. Jones now has e-mail....they're on a freakin roll...they will destroy everyone because they now have e-mail and broke24 can sinc his freakin treo...I have a dream, I dream about e-mail...and doorknockin with my new treo...be able to put into my prospects notes..."knocked on Ms Jones door, she barely opened it...I tried to introduce myself and she told me to go f myself and get the hell off my porch". A todo...call in two weeks and see if she remembers me at her door, and see if I can get her to buy a muni."
[/quote]
By the way, in teh next one or two years, new FAs at Jones will be prospecting and doing in home appointments with a satellite linked Tablet PC. It will have an interactive map of each community that will pull up all historical info on contacts you've made, access portfolio information and link to the Jones system. After walking around town with pencil and paper, keeping track of prospects over multiple visits and phone calls, I can say that this system will create unbelievable efficiency for new people getting into their business. If you are thinking about EDJ. Try and get in on the pilot program for the tablets. It will cut 2-3 hours a day out of paperwork and client upkeep and allow you do that extra bit to get ahead early in your career. It will even reproduce your handwritten thank you cards (a jones requirement) and print them for you in your handwriting (once again a HUGE time saver).
[quote=Broker24]. Chances are, it will only end up being the preferred
families. That part is just my own speculation. I think they are waiting
for the 12b-1 & Merrill Rule dust to settle before they roll it out. They
want to make sure they don’t &$^% it up.
[/quote]
Oh lordy, 12b-1 and Merrill Rule won’t be resolved for ages. The FPA
reasons, the B/Ds have the money, but the FPA is on the side of right.
Given that it is cheap to fight it out, and the SEC got slapped down,
the long term trend is for the MER rule to be voided, unless a special
carve out is created.
In the mean time EDJ is paying a tremendous opportunity cost in waiting.
[quote=AllREIT]
[
In the mean time EDJ is paying a tremendous opportunity cost in waiting.
[/quote]
Amen brother.( and i haven’t been to church in 35 years)
[quote=bspears]
Here we are, 2007, and broke24 reiterates "we have e-mail". Hell has frozen over. Okay, everyone lock the doors to YOUR office and quit. Jones now has e-mail....they're on a freakin roll...they will destroy everyone because they now have e-mail and broke24 can sinc his freakin treo...I have a dream, I dream about e-mail...and doorknockin with my new treo...be able to put into my prospects notes..."knocked on Ms Jones door, she barely opened it...I tried to introduce myself and she told me to go f myself and get the hell off my porch". A todo...call in two weeks and see if she remembers me at her door, and see if I can get her to buy a muni."
[/quote]
Actually, someone made the statement, so I commented on it...
And not all of us knock on doors and call on muni's, or stocks, or whatever. Jones' model works for some starting out. Me, personally, I don't do the product call thing. We're not all alike, Britney, unlike how you may have been with Jones. But, I am SURE that once you went Indy you just changed everything about how you prospect.
My question - why were you so dumb when you were with Jones? Don't talk to me about the Kool-aide. You just couldn't think for yourself. I don't do half the crap that Jones teaches us, and I am doing just fine. I take the good stuff and leave the rest. You are just a sorry little gimp that is using Jones as an excuse for why you couldn't produce. Hate to tell you, but business just doesn't "appear" because you changed shingles. You are so full of crap.
Sorry to everyone else for my rant.
HA HA…apology accepted!! Broke, not sure how long you’ve been hitting the neighborhood doors, but as I’ve stated before…I’ve had a large number of referrals since hanging my own sign. Actually a nice lighted sign. So yes, my prospecting has changed. Will this continue…who knows. Today, son brings in an annuity for his mother, has a small cd with me, and wants it transferred over. Now, not a money maker, but 66k of new money I didn’t call on…is well, GREAT. I will guess…1.5-2mil has been referred or just new stuff brought to me in 4 months. Some of it, like today, I will change broker of record on and pull off trails, others needed invested. Great, you don’t drink the koolade, and once you get past your 3 yr mark in 09, maybe you could move to!! I think you’re pissed because you work for the man, get fspends all freaking day, have to go to newir meetings, call sessions, hit your 25 contacts per day…and give 65% to the GP. Hell, I was mad as hell too…don’t take it out on me…look around