Borker Boy, do actually tell people that anything that you can’t hold at your

little firm is crap?



You’re worse than Rob Yull pretends to be.

[quote=Rob Yull]It’s good to know Joe is out there, but some of you guys need to loosen a couple of notches out of your belt. Thief? I work hard to find money, cause I love to make money. I let money managers manage the assets, do you guys do the same thing? Mutual funds, Jones people only use American funds. Back off borker boy, I don’t sell to my clients that I am the “one” who picks and choses. Some of you are jealous, you want to be a good salesman but you will never be one. Like farotech, calling me a thief, shim probably loves looking at asset allocations and run hypo’s all day for something that has already happen. In stead of asking for the money. We don’t know wtf is going to happen next, I let my clients know that, but their money is being managed by people who do this for living. I just find out their needs and risk tolerances. Then put their money to work.  Yes it is good to know what annuities the jones guy down the road can hold. He doesn’t take mine for a livin.  [/quote]

My clients think it’s good that I’m out here too.

My firm can hold far more investments of different varieties than Jones.  I get a lot of referrals to clean up after clowns like you, too!  Your clients will need my help long after you’re out of the business.

  I have been called worse by the Jones borker down the street. She is just way too general.

My specialty is selling VA's. I am totally open to my clients on what they are getting. Is there something wrong in becoming a specialist? I found closure rates get better and better. 

Doctor's have been doing this for years. Family Practice (jones) Gynecologist (me) Who makes the most? Any specialist does. Internal, Family Practice, and Ped's. They make the least amount of money of the physicians. Look at lawyers they totally specialize, if not they will be handling small claims, divorces, wills, and some real estate closures.

[quote=Rob Yull]

  I have been called worse by the Jones borker down the street. She is just way too general.

My specialty is selling VA's. I am totally open to my clients on what they are getting. Is there something wrong in becoming a specialist? I found closure rates get better and better. 

Doctor's have been doing this for years. Family Practice (jones) Gynecologist (me) Who makes the most? Any specialist does. Internal, Family Practice, and Ped's. They make the least amount of money of the physicians. Look at lawyers they totally specialize, if not they will be handling small claims, divorces, wills, and some real estate closures.

[/quote]

Amen.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Borker Boy, do actually tell people that anything that you can't hold at your
little firm is crap?

You're worse than Rob Yull pretends to be.[/quote]

No, I don't tell them their annuity is crap.

They already know that; hence the reason they walk into my office with their policy in hand.

[quote=Borker Boy]

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Borker Boy, do actually tell

people that anything that you can’t hold at your little firm is crap? You’re

worse than Rob Yull pretends to be.[/quote]

No, I don’t tell them their annuity is crap.

They already know that; hence the reason they walk into my office with

their policy in hand.

[quote=Borker Boy]

[quote=Philo Kvetch]Borker Boy, do actually tell people that anything that you can't hold at your
little firm is crap?

You're worse than Rob Yull pretends to be.[/quote]

No, I don't tell them their annuity is crap.

They already know that; hence the reason they walk into my office with their policy in hand.

[/quote]

You just got your "can sell" date. You don't have an office for people to walk into. You have a table for people to walk up to, in case you ever get a person.

Client before product. It sounds like you’re doing it the other way around.

[quote=Ashland] Client before product. It sounds like you’re doing it the

other way around.[/quote]



What exactly is wrong with having a great product, then sifting through

people 'til you find good candidatesfor it? If done right, it could be a very

profitable strategy. It’s not my cup of tea, only because I don’t know how to

do it.

[quote=Rob Yull]

  I have been called worse by the Jones borker down the street. She is just way too general.

My specialty is selling VA's. I am totally open to my clients on what they are getting. Is there something wrong in becoming a specialist? I found closure rates get better and better. 

Doctor's have been doing this for years. Family Practice (jones) PROCTOLOGIST (me) Who makes the most? Any specialist does. Internal, Family Practice, and Ped's. They make the least amount of money of the physicians. Look at lawyers they totally specialize, if not they will be handling small claims, divorces, wills, and some real estate closures.

[/quote]

She's too general?  She realizes that this isn't a one size fits all business and she's got to deal with issues beyond what do you do with this $50,000 today.  Retirement planning, LTC planning, Survivorship issues, estate planning, college, disability...I can keep going if you like.  Very few of those have anything to do with an annuity.  She will do more financial planning in a day than you will do in year.  And you say she's too general.  Ha! 

I love your doctor's analogy by the way.  It shows that you don't quite grasp this business.  The majority of the time you need a referral from your PCP before you can go see a specialist and have your insurance cover it.  It's his job to tell you what he believes is your issue, then you go to the specialist he recommends.  Just like you would go see a Jones (or pick any other financial planner) FA to let them diagnose your current situation and then let them recommend a good specialist product for you.  The PCP doesn't send everybody to the oncologist (that's a cancer doctor for the uneducated out there).  There's not a good FA out there that would put everybody in an annuity.  That must mean you are not a good FA. 

In this situation the only reason you are making more money is because you are screwing people for your own profit.  Have you told them how much you make on your anniuties?  Would they expect a different level of service from you if they knew?  My guess is yes.  The "we'll look at this in 7 years when it is out of surrender" comment is a bunch of crap. 

If you're for real, save yourself a lot of time in court and money in arbitration costs and go back to the car business. 

There's not a good FA out there that would put everybody in an annuity.  That must mean you are not a good FA. 

How about giving Rob Yull the benefit of the doubt?  He's an annuity salesperson.  He's not trying to help the person with their college planning, DI planning, etc. because that is not what he does...just like the podatrist won't do brain surgery.   The good podiatrist will send everyone away who does not need "foot work" done.  And if Rob is a good annuity salesperson, he'll send everyone away who doesn't need an annuity.

The podiatrist can make lots of money just from people with foot problems.  An annuity salesperson can make lots of money just from people who would benefit from an annuity.   

[quote=anonymous]

There's not a good FA out there that would put everybody in an annuity.  That must mean you are not a good FA. 

How about giving Rob Yull the benefit of the doubt?  He's an annuity salesperson.  He's not trying to help the person with their college planning, DI planning, etc. because that is not what he does...just like the podatrist won't do brain surgery.   The good podiatrist will send everyone away who does not need "foot work" done.  And if Rob is a good annuity salesperson, he'll send everyone away who doesn't need an annuity.

The podiatrist can make lots of money just from people with foot problems.  An annuity salesperson can make lots of money just from people who would benefit from an annuity.   

[/quote]

Finally, someone gets it!!!

[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=Rob Yull]

  I have been called worse by the Jones borker down the street. She is just way too general.

My specialty is selling VA's. I am totally open to my clients on what they are getting. Is there something wrong in becoming a specialist? I found closure rates get better and better. 

Doctor's have been doing this for years. Family Practice (jones) PROCTOLOGIST (me) Who makes the most? Any specialist does. Internal, Family Practice, and Ped's. They make the least amount of money of the physicians. Look at lawyers they totally specialize, if not they will be handling small claims, divorces, wills, and some real estate closures.

[/quote]

She's too general?  She realizes that this isn't a one size fits all business and she's got to deal with issues beyond what do you do with this $50,000 today.  Retirement planning, LTC planning, Survivorship issues, estate planning, college, disability...I can keep going if you like.  Very few of those have anything to do with an annuity.  She will do more financial planning in a day than you will do in year.  And you say she's too general.  Ha! 

I love your doctor's analogy by the way.  It shows that you don't quite grasp this business.  The majority of the time you need a referral from your PCP before you can go see a specialist and have your insurance cover it.  It's his job to tell you what he believes is your issue, then you go to the specialist he recommends.  Just like you would go see a Jones (or pick any other financial planner) FA to let them diagnose your current situation and then let them recommend a good specialist product for you.  The PCP doesn't send everybody to the oncologist (that's a cancer doctor for the uneducated out there).  There's not a good FA out there that would put everybody in an annuity.  That must mean you are not a good FA. 

In this situation the only reason you are making more money is because you are screwing people for your own profit.  Have you told them how much you make on your anniuties?  Would they expect a different level of service from you if they knew?  My guess is yes.  The "we'll look at this in 7 years when it is out of surrender" comment is a bunch of crap. 

If you're for real, save yourself a lot of time in court and money in arbitration costs and go back to the car business. 

[/quote]

Testy, testy.

You don't know me, your so blinded by your rage of you failed to notice I said I only hunt for long term money. 

Too bad the gal down the road puts people in 45 year bonds. WTF!! Is that acceptable?? I will be living off her incompetence if she keeps that up. A city councilwoman just came in with her mothers jones account, ALL BONDS they ranged from 18% down to 5% down. Tell me there is no penalty in that. Another one had a bunch of 4% 30 year muni's that the clients tells me they don't need the income. Why does she push this stuff. It's like all she knows are bonds.

I will be adding the income stream as an option soon. See a good salesman learns his product and believes in it before he uses it. This keeps you out of trouble, it lets you sift the money. I find money for my partner all the time, I am not a shop like a jones. "Lets see, I can get you financed. It's in one of these drawers, hold on. Oh here are your choices. A) Bond B) Investment Company of America C) BAC" Anyway as stated above a wholesaler is flying us down to watch the TPC Sawgrass in a few weeks then go over ways to sell annuities as income streams over bonds. $$$

Continue to be as generalist. I love my work and I love to close the deal. 

[quote=anonymous]

There's not a good FA out there that would put everybody in an annuity.  That must mean you are not a good FA. 

How about giving Rob Yull the benefit of the doubt?  He's an annuity salesperson.  He's not trying to help the person with their college planning, DI planning, etc. because that is not what he does...just like the podatrist won't do brain surgery.   The good podiatrist will send everyone away who does not need "foot work" done.  And if Rob is a good annuity salesperson, he'll send everyone away who doesn't need an annuity.

The podiatrist can make lots of money just from people with foot problems.  An annuity salesperson can make lots of money just from people who would benefit from an annuity.   

[/quote]

I'm not faulting the guy for selling VAs.  I'm fauting him for the flippant attitude that he seems to have when it comes to investing people's life savings and this business in general.  I went back and reread the posts he's put up.  I saw lines like "a month before 7 year surrender we will meet and start the 1035 paper work with a different annuity. We 1035 to a new 7 years surrender" and "we will open that chest up in 7 years" and my favorite "I only get never money."  Those aren't the words of someone who is trying to really help people.  Annuities are horrible estate transfer vehicles if you haven't heard Rob.  You get paid better on life insurance I'm sure, so maybe you can branch out a little.   

To continue with the doctor analogy the Hippocratic oath says something about do no harm.  We've all seen people absolutely burned by VAs because the salesperson slapped the client into them and moved on, never to look back again.  Which is exactly what this guy is talking about doing.  At least he's having them fill out a risk tolerance questionairre.  But do you really think he's sending people away?  Rob, how many people have you referred to your favorite generalist FA in town?  Ever had a conference call with that generalist to ask if the client is right for an annuity or if there would be a better solution out there? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say no.  

It is true that a guy can make a lot of money selling people what they want.  So can a crack dealer.       

[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=anonymous]

It is true that a guy can make a lot of money selling people what they want.  So can a crack dealer.       

[/quote]

Spiff are you saying  Crack Dealer = Annuity Dealer ?

I noticed how you avoided his experence with the local jones broker. Who is worse, selling a 45 year bond on a cold call. Or meeting with a client to find there risk tolerances and explain the investment. I am not defending Yull, but get off your high horse and realize Jones has some of the same tactics.

Amen brother!!

I might agree with you if I didn't know that A) 45 year bonds are rare at Jones, B) they are rarely sold on a cold call C)  there is a place for long bonds in a portfolio and D) I'm sure the Jones broker's only story isn't buy my 45 year bond.  But to answer your question, I think they're both bad and I wouldn't run my business either way.

The council woman's mother in bonds!!  How inappropriate.  Quick throw her money into a VA.  The couple who doesn't need income buying, probably, insured munis with no taxes!! Quick, throw the money into a  VA and create a taxable situation for their benes!  Whew, I'm glad he was able to save those people.  Seriously, he's basing his experience with the Jones lady down the street on two cases?  Give me a break.

Did he explain the tax ramifications of moving those portfolios to a VA?  Did he ask the council woman's mother about her risk tolerances or was it based on the council woman's?   

Field Supervision would run me out of town if the ONLY thing I was selling was VAs.  They are absolutely NOT appropriate for every client you come into contact with and the impression I get from Mr. Yull is that in his office they are.  I hope he can tell me I'm wrong.  I hope he'll answer the question about the referrals to the generalist in his town.

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

I might agree with you if I didn't know that A) 45 year bonds are rare at Jones, B) they are rarely sold on a cold call C)  there is a place for long bonds in a portfolio and D) I'm sure the Jones broker's only story isn't buy my 45 year bond.  But to answer your question, I think they're both bad and I wouldn't run my business either way.

The council woman's mother in bonds!!  How inappropriate.  Quick throw her money into a VA.  The couple who doesn't need income buying, probably, insured munis with no taxes!! Quick, throw the money into a  VA and create a taxable situation for their benes!  Whew, I'm glad he was able to save those people.  Seriously, he's basing his experience with the Jones lady down the street on two cases?  Give me a break.

Did he explain the tax ramifications of moving those portfolios to a VA?  Did he ask the council woman's mother about her risk tolerances or was it based on the council woman's?   

Field Supervision would run me out of town if the ONLY thing I was selling was VAs.  They are absolutely NOT appropriate for every client you come into contact with and the impression I get from Mr. Yull is that in his office they are.  I hope he can tell me I'm wrong.  I hope he'll answer the question about the referrals to the generalist in his town.

[/quote]

Spaceman, I am not a Financial Advisor, I hear you just became one. Before, you were an Investment Representative and that's what I do. I represent an investment. I pass money over often to my principle and she sends the VA business my way.  She was with Jones 14 years. She makes the jack, too. She does almost all fee base and I get the annuity business side of the book. She just looks at it like getting a 10% trail without any work. 

You believe the over hype of annuities, that there all bad. She won't let me sell EIA's but thats about it. We specialize and I am the annuity specialist in our office. The two Jones branches in town both advertise bonds and "Free Portfolio Reviews"  Many people with money perceive FREE as a cheap product. You don't like me or my type, because you are you, you will work hard for that 5000 dollar account. That's ok. I don't, because I choose not too. I chose to find 100k minimal a week to put in a VA. Your choosing to be all to everyone, I am not.

I understand what you are saying Rob ... and I happen to be a believer in using annuities SOMETIMES.  But the only time I have ever used them, they are used as a compliment to other products like mutual funds or actively managing the money.  An annuity is NEVER (if you found a case let me know) the ONLY thing that someone should be invested in.  If you are selling annuities as a compliment to other business that someone else in your office does, I get that - but you should never approach a prospect trying to sell them an annuity first becuase it is almost 99% of the time against your fudiciary duty. 

Spiff, I'm with you ...

You read my post we do compliment each other. But we only accept 100k minimal accounts. What is wrong with approaching someone as a person who uses annuities? They can say no, but I usually know they have plenty of money. If they own one I try to 1035 or change broker dealer if it meets our standards.

I am not a financial planner and do not even attempt to portray myself in that manner.  Rich people have money, they don't like taxes. Many don't care what the kids get, they earned it and it is there decision to pass the tax consequences on to there bene's.  Also, annuities are protected from creditors in my state. You are missing out of a ton of business from doctors and transportation companies. You go ahead and put that money in muni's or mutual funds. Then let that business owner get sued. You lost his or hers a$$. I am a specialist I know my product, I sift through the prospects.  YOU ARE NOT HEARING ME.

Ultimately it comes down to money. You want to make more and your broker dealer only wants you to use mutual funds that pay revenue sharing. You guys are smart. I guess I am not, an I will be like everyone else, because they will be making 400k a year by 32. My clients are stupid, too. They don't care if one of their dumb truck driver hits someone and gets sued. However, their local jones broker knew what is best and sold them out of that terrible annuity to own American Funds. I guess you will send their grandkids to college spiff? I work my whole state as a specialist and if you don't believe these type business owners don't talk you are crazy. Sell all the roths you want. I don't care.