S.e.a.l.s
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Let’s see what kind of mess this starts.
BondGuy, Still@Jones and company: Should we prosecute these men? Are they representative of all that is wrong with our country and Obama is finally taking out the trash?
Or is the administration turning on it’s heroes, thanking them on the news and then having JAG prosecute them?
Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist
Tuesday , November 24, 2009
By Rowan Scarborough
Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted
terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and
mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004.
And for their trouble, three of the SEALs, members of the Navy’s elite
commando unit, are now facing criminal charges, sources told
FoxNews.com.
The three have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral’s mast — and requested a trial by court-martial.
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named “Objective Amber,” told
investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip
to prove it.
Now, instead of being lauded for bringing to justice a high-value
target, three of the SEAL commandos, all enlisted, face assault charges
and have retained lawyers.
Matthew McCabe, a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class (SO-2),
is facing three charges: dereliction of performance of duty for
willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official
statement, and assault.
Petty Officer Jonathan Keefe, SO-2, is facing charges of dereliction of
performance of duty and making a false official statement.
Petty Officer Julio Huertas, SO-1, faces those same charges and an additional charge of impediment of an investigation.
The three SEALs will be arraigned separately on Dec. 7. Another three
SEALs — two officers and an enlisted sailor — have been identified by
investigators as witnesses but have not been charged.
FoxNews.com obtained the official handwritten statement from one of the
three witnesses given on Sept. 3, hours after Abed was captured and
still being held at the SEAL base at Camp Baharia. He was later taken
to a cell in the U.S.-operated Green Zone in Baghdad.
The SEAL told investigators he had showered after the mission, gone to the kitchen and then decided to look in on the detainee.
“I gave the detainee a glance over and then left,” the SEAL wrote. "I
did not notice anything wrong with the detainee and he appeared in good
health."
Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, spokeswoman for the special operations
component of U.S. Central Command, confirmed Tuesday to FoxNews.com
that three SEALs have been charged in connection with the capture of a
detainee. She said their court martial is scheduled for January.
United States Central Command declined to discuss the detainee, but a
legal source told FoxNews.com that the detainee was turned over to
Iraqi authorities, to whom he made the abuse complaints. He was then
returned to American custody. The SEAL leader reported the charge up
the chain of command, and an investigation ensued.
The source said intelligence briefings provided to the SEALs stated
that “Objective Amber” planned the 2004 Fallujah ambush, and "they had
been tracking this guy for some time."
The Fallujah atrocity came to symbolize the brutality of the enemy in
Iraq and the degree to which a homegrown insurgency was extending its
grip over Iraq.
The four Blackwater agents were transporting supplies for a catering
company when they were ambushed and killed by gunfire and grenades.
Insurgents burned the bodies and dragged them through the city. They
hanged two of the bodies on a bridge over the Euphrates River for the
world press to photograph.
Intelligence sources identified Abed as the ringleader, but he had evaded capture until September.
The military is sensitive to charges of detainee abuse highlighted in
the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. The Navy charged four SEALs with abuse
in 2004 in connection with detainee treatment.
This is a fukcing travesty. Obama, and I blame him squarely, has turned our nation into a bunch of pu$$ies. I’m not one for unnecessary militarism or barbarianism, but slapping around some terrorist doesn’t exactly qualify as barbaric. We are very quickly demoting ourselves on the world’s landscape.
When the f'ing detainee was turned over to Iraq, and made the complaints, Obama himself should have personally told Iraqi officials to go fukc themselves and suck his big, ^%#$@ d1ck. I'm sure instead, he just apologized for our misbehavior and the years of oppression the United States has inflicted upon their wonderful nation. So, I'm not sure exactly how I feel.Has this been reported on by another news service? Not that I think that this is unbelievable, I would just consider the source.
STFU !Has this been reported on by another news service? Not that I think that this is unbelievable, I would just consider the source.
STFU ![/quote] Ron, don't you have to go to work so you can repay some of my tax money?[quote=SometimesNowhere]Has this been reported on by another news service? Not that I think that this is unbelievable, I would just consider the source.
From Cnn:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/11/25/navy.seals.falluja/index.html
CBS:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/25/crimesider/entry5773734.shtml
I don’t think Ron’s bank took TARP funds.
Some weird place.
http://www.makli.com/navy-seals-court-martial-0014562/
Fair enough, that's why I ask. I don't trust Fox News any more than I trust CNN or the Huffington Post. And, yes they did. They just allegedly didn't need them and paid them back quickly. I like Ron, so I wanted a muted, non-offensive jab at his employer. He can feel free to make some sort of doorknocking or American Funds portfolio joke now if he sees fit.CBS:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/25/crimesider/entry5773734.shtml
I don’t think Ron’s bank took TARP funds.
Some weird place.
http://www.makli.com/navy-seals-court-martial-0014562/
Fair enough, that's why I ask. I don't trust Fox News any more than I trust CNN or the Huffington Post. And, yes they did. They just allegedly didn't need them and paid them back quickly. I like Ron, so I wanted a muted, non-offensive jab at his employer. He can feel free to make some sort of doorknocking or American Funds portfolio joke now if he sees fit. [/quote][quote=Moraen] CBS:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/25/crimesider/entry5773734.shtml
I don’t think Ron’s bank took TARP funds.
Some weird place.
http://www.makli.com/navy-seals-court-martial-0014562/
Fox may put a right slant on things, but nothing they report is factually inaccurate. What has been reported wrong is usually issued a retraction and apology.
MSNBC is similar. They are mainly opinion News organization. The stories they do report are usually accurate, just that they only report the ones they want to. And prominence on their website or news shows are varied. For instance - I don't think you will find this story on MSNBC's web site.
Regardless, this story is ridiculous. If they are going to prosecute these guys, myself and several of my buddies may have to live in fear of prosecution. Public adoration of the military is high, but apparently, our government wants to tear down it’s heroes.
This is simply the new administration doing everything they can to be able to shield themselves of any responsibility for the next (and there will be one w/the way things are going) terrorist attack. “Well, we took every precaution necessary! Remember when we punished our own guys for a minor violation of the Geneva Convention because they slapped one of the worlds most dangerous terrorists in the face? So don’t blame us because we didn’t provoke them!” What a bunch of pu$$ies our government has become.
STFU ![/quote] Sorry, that was out of line. I just get so fired up about this kind of stuff. Many family members and friends are currently in or have served in our military.[quote=SometimesNowhere]Has this been reported on by another news service? Not that I think that this is unbelievable, I would just consider the source.
STFU ![/quote] Sorry, that was out of line. I just get so fired up about this kind of stuff. Many family members and friends are currently in or have served in our military. [/quote] No prob. And let me clarify, I was not intending to dismiss the story nor the importance of it. I too am very close to people who have and are serving, and feel that they deserve all the respect and adoration in the world, as well as being unshackled from the political correctness and sensitivity that seems to dictate all of our military activity lately. I am not sure why war has to be delicate all of a sudden. They can behead reporters and soldiers, stone women, and cut off limbs of innocent people and we can't punch them in the face? That's a f***ing Saturday Night Life punchline, not a military or diplomatic strategy. With that said, I think the politicizing of military action is disgusting, and it happens from people wearing both red and blue ties. There is a job to be done, let the people you train to do that job go and do it, and if you are going to tell the story, tell it without coloring it either way. Let the people that care enough to pay attention come to their own conclusions about the information you provide.[quote=Ron 14][quote=SometimesNowhere]Has this been reported on by another news service? Not that I think that this is unbelievable, I would just consider the source.
STFU ![/quote] Sorry, that was out of line. I just get so fired up about this kind of stuff. Many family members and friends are currently in or have served in our military. [/quote] No prob. And let me clarify, I was not intending to dismiss the story nor the importance of it. I too am very close to people who have and are serving, and feel that they deserve all the respect and adoration in the world, as well as being unshackled from the political correctness and sensitivity that seems to dictate all of our military activity lately. I am not sure why war has to be delicate all of a sudden. They can behead reporters and soldiers, stone women, and cut off limbs of innocent people and we can't punch them in the face? That's a f***ing Saturday Night Life punchline, not a military or diplomatic strategy. With that said, I think the politicizing of military action is disgusting, and it happens from people wearing both red and blue ties. There is a job to be done, let the people you train to do that job go and do it, and if you are going to tell the story, tell it without coloring it either way. Let the people that care enough to pay attention come to their own conclusions about the information you provide. [/quote][quote=Ron 14][quote=Ron 14][quote=SometimesNowhere]Has this been reported on by another news service? Not that I think that this is unbelievable, I would just consider the source.
SN - Our country is full of people who think that handing out candy and smiling and waving and telling people, "You can do whatever you want!" will make people like us and want to do business with us.
They don't recognize that sometimes you have to be violent with people.
I know a guy who thinks that he can do whatever he wants regardless of the consequences. He is the head of finance for a pharma company that grew quickly. He happened to be in the right place at the right time. His parents thought that it was funny that he lied all of the time. They protected him and basically raised him so that he could do whatever he wanted.
In our school system, fighting is punished. But sometimes... sometimes people need their asses beaten. They realize then that there are consequences.
Our society is much like this guy I mentioned. Weak.
Iraq is a failure just like Vietnam (anyone 45+ is probably burning up right now). I disagreed with Bush’s push to war in '03 - But I gave him a chance. And, I was terribly disappointed with his results.
These charges are much smaller than a full war…but, based on the Fox News article, I don’t see how this makes any sense either. It also seems like a political disaster if Obama is personally behind it (which I do not believe is true - someone who can be fired is making this call).
What seems to be happening is the current administration is trying to change the tone of the war among Iraqis. Since I do not know anything about Iraqi culture, I really can’t comment if this move is good or bad to that ends. But, I’m giving the Obama administration a chance to fix Bush’s mistakes.
If it somehow leads to less attacks on Americans, I got to say, those S.E.A.L.S. are property of the US Navy. The administration can do whatever they want with them (just like Pat Tillman). Anything to help the cause.
But, I agree…from the outside, it does look stupid.
[quote=Still@jones]
Iraq is a failure just like Vietnam (anyone 45+ is probably burning up right now). I disagreed with Bush’s push to war in '03 - But I gave him a chance. And, I was terribly disappointed with his results.
These charges are much smaller than a full war…but, based on the Fox News article, I don’t see how this makes any sense either. It also seems like a political disaster if Obama is personally behind it (which I do not believe is true - someone who can be fired is making this call).
What seems to be happening is the current administration is trying to change the tone of the war among Iraqis. Since I do not know anything about Iraqi culture, I really can’t comment if this move is good or bad to that ends. But, I’m giving the Obama administration a chance to fix Bush’s mistakes.
If it somehow leads to less attacks on Americans, I got to say, those S.E.A.L.S. are property of the US Navy. The administration can do whatever they want with them (just like Pat Tillman). Anything to help the cause.
But, I agree…from the outside, it does look stupid.
[/quote]
In what world could prosecuting our own lead to less attacks on Americans?!?!
If I am a terrorist, I’m thinking, “Wow, our guy kills four private American citizens, the SEALs, get him and slap him around a bit and then they are going to burn for it? Where is my AK? Let’s see if we can get some of those KBR cooks!”.
Change the tone?!? Petraeus already changed the tone - under Bush! The Iraq war and the Vietnam war are two completely different animals. For one, the Viet Cong could fight and had balls. Two, that war did not result in an insurgency after they sovereign had been defeated. Three, the insurgency is fueled by religious fervor, not nationalism. No one in Iraq is a nationlistic-type person. Those that are, are anti-insurgency.
As for it being a failure, even Tony Blair said he would have gone in even if Hussein didn’t have WMD’s. I am at a loss as to how it is a failure. We built schools and bridges and dug wells and provided better medical care.
Statistically, if you were a soldier in the ten years before 9/11, you were more likely to die in the States than post-9/11 in war. That’s a net GAIN of soldiers.
I think Clint Eastwood said it best: “We’re becoming juvenile as a nation. The guys who won World War II and that whole generation have disappeared, and now we have a bunch of teenage twits.”
Disappointed in the results ? We captured and killed a mass murder who was a complete tyrant in the most unstable area of the world. Nothing to be disappointed about.Iraq is a failure just like Vietnam (anyone 45+ is probably burning up right now). I disagreed with Bush’s push to war in '03 - But I gave him a chance. And, I was terribly disappointed with his results.
These charges are much smaller than a full war…but, based on the Fox News article, I don’t see how this makes any sense either. It also seems like a political disaster if Obama is personally behind it (which I do not believe is true - someone who can be fired is making this call).
What seems to be happening is the current administration is trying to change the tone of the war among Iraqis. Since I do not know anything about Iraqi culture, I really can’t comment if this move is good or bad to that ends. But, I’m giving the Obama administration a chance to fix Bush’s mistakes.
If it somehow leads to less attacks on Americans, I got to say, those S.E.A.L.S. are property of the US Navy. The administration can do whatever they want with them (just like Pat Tillman). Anything to help the cause.
But, I agree…from the outside, it does look stupid.