Favre?
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[quote=chief123]Isn’t there a double edge sword in professional sports… Leave to early (Barry Sanders) and we are mad and wonder why… Stay too long (Favre/Shaq) we are mad and wonder why… But don’t they have the opportunity to redeem themselves by doing something great… For example if Shaq and Lebron win the NBA championship this year or if Favre leads the vikings to the superbowl. In 3-5 years no one will remember anyways(like when Montana finished his career as a Chief, or Jordan a wizard, Karl Malone on the lakers, Gary Payton on the lakers, heat). Sure we remember, but don’t really care that they did
I wouldn’t lump Shaq in the Favre category. Shaq’s never retired or led the media to believe he was done. Shaq doesn’t have any “redeeming” to do, he won a title 3 years ago and 3 titles prior to that. Favre hasn’t sniffed a title in 13 years, and in recent history has been the key reason why they haven’t sniffed a title (OT interception in '03 vs. Eagles in playoff loss, OT interception in '07 vs. Giants in NFC title game loss, 4 INT’s vs. Vikings in '04 playoff loss, 6 INT’s vs Rams in '01 playoff loss, 2 INT’s and a lost fumble vs. Falcons in '02 playoff loss). He was DIRECTLY at fault for all 5 playoff eliminations this decade alone.
Montana and Favre are unrelated because Montana was traded to KC and went to 2 playoffs in his 2 seasons in KC including the AFC championship game, and he made the Pro-Bowl in '93. Jordan is Jordan. He invented the art of the graceful comeback, unlike Favre who has Sugar Ray Leonard apparently as his life coach.[/quote]
When I referred to shaq, I meant about staying past their prime(he can barely make it through half a season now). I will conceed he has more titles, but I think that is only because in basketball you can win a title with 2 really good players, and then some role players (Kobe/Shq, Jordan/Pippen, KG/Pierce) where as in football you need a lot more talent overall(or barry sanders would have had a ring by now).
On the interceptions for Favre, he is a gunslinger(is only derrogatory when he plays poorly) and you have to live with that. Also I think the caliber of receivers he has has been very poor considering this era… Because when I think of top 25 recievers of the past 20 years, Donald Driver, Javon Walker, Antonio Freeman and Robert Brooks don’t cut it… Same as RB, Ryan Grant is ok(maybe not even), but Edgar Bennet,Dorsey Levens, Ahman Green(for maybe 2 years)… I think there is a reason for the interceptions, he has never had talent around him(Brady to Randy Moss, Manning to Harrison, Montana to Rice etc.)…
I think this year will be interesting… still has no wr, but does have the best rb in the league
Ahhh man, I'm gonna start calling you John Madden for all the excuses you have for Favre, lmao! Driver, Walker, Freeman, Brooks and I include Greg Jennings for 2007, combined for 22,250+ yards and 168 TD's in their career w/Favre, also 5 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pro seasons. Not to mention Bubba Franks and Mark Chmura who combined for 6 Pro Bowls, 2 All-Pro's, 49 TD's and 4,500 yds, and their careers as full time starters lasted about 2/3 of Favre's GB career. For the RB's, we have 5 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pro selections between Green, Bennett and Levens. 9 1,000+ yd seasons and 141 TD's. Hard to say those guys were schmucks.On the interceptions for Favre, he is a gunslinger(is only derrogatory when he plays poorly) and you have to live with that. Also I think the caliber of receivers he has has been very poor considering this era… Because when I think of top 25 recievers of the past 20 years, Donald Driver, Javon Walker, Antonio Freeman and Robert Brooks don’t cut it… Same as RB, Ryan Grant is ok(maybe not even), but Edgar Bennet,Dorsey Levens, Ahman Green(for maybe 2 years)… I think there is a reason for the interceptions, he has never had talent around him(Brady to Randy Moss, Manning to Harrison, Montana to Rice etc.)…
You forgot Sterling Sharpe his first few years. Without Sharpe Favre wouldn’t have been allowed to continue starting. All completions were to Sharpe or the other team! Now there is a report that Favre has a cracked Rib. The media is going to be blowing him about “what a warrior”,!!!
Ohhh yea, Sterling Sharpe!!! Add 3 Pro Bowls, 3 All-Pro’s, 4,000 yds and 42 more TD’s to my previous total.
My god I hope Ron Jaworski has a towel to wipe all the Favre juice off his face after the game tonight. Anyone else notice this?
Ahhh man, I'm gonna start calling you John Madden for all the excuses you have for Favre, lmao! Driver, Walker, Freeman, Brooks and I include Greg Jennings for 2007, combined for 22,250+ yards and 168 TD's in their career w/Favre, also 5 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pro seasons. Not to mention Bubba Franks and Mark Chmura who combined for 6 Pro Bowls, 2 All-Pro's, 49 TD's and 4,500 yds, and their careers as full time starters lasted about 2/3 of Favre's GB career. For the RB's, we have 5 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pro selections between Green, Bennett and Levens. 9 1,000+ yd seasons and 141 TD's. Hard to say those guys were schmucks. [/quote] I am not quite on Madden's level... but close... I was simply stating that he has par talent, not sub par, but certainly not superb.. I think those guys wouldn't have been in the league without Favre(sterling gets an exception, but they weren't together that long, by the way sterlings brother looks like Mr. Ed) Montana had rice and taylor and roger craig, the greenbay players don't sniff those guys.[quote=chief123]On the interceptions for Favre, he is a gunslinger(is only derrogatory when he plays poorly) and you have to live with that. Also I think the caliber of receivers he has has been very poor considering this era… Because when I think of top 25 recievers of the past 20 years, Donald Driver, Javon Walker, Antonio Freeman and Robert Brooks don’t cut it… Same as RB, Ryan Grant is ok(maybe not even), but Edgar Bennet,Dorsey Levens, Ahman Green(for maybe 2 years)… I think there is a reason for the interceptions, he has never had talent around him(Brady to Randy Moss, Manning to Harrison, Montana to Rice etc.)…
I think the reason most “talking heads” type for the NFL like Favre because they appreciate the kind of competitor he is. He never played for the money but because he loved the game. He always gave honest interviews (which is part of being a professional) never got arrested and played hurt (alot). Sure the back and fourth the last few years was kind of old, but it should not take away what he gave the Packers and the NFL. Look at Brandon Marshall, Mike Vick, Stallworth, ect, ect…the list goes on, these are the bad guys, not a 40 year old who loves to play but is not sure his body will hold up an entire season. I would not be surprised if down the road Manning or Brady have the same issues. More guys would do the same thing but usually they are forced out of the league where Brett was recruited. (Hey Ron, how did you like Denvers reaction to Culver? I wonder how Green Bay fans will be?)
John Taylor - 2 Pro Bowls, 0 All-Pro's, 2 1,000 yd seasons (None over 1,100 yds), 347 recds, 5,598 career yds, 43 TD's Antonio Freeman - 1 Pro Bowl, 1 All-Pro, 3 1,000 yd seasons (2 over 1,200 yds), 477 recs, 7,251 career yds, 61 TD's History looks fonder on players who are older. History hasn't had a chance to look back on Antonio Freeman yet, mainly because he didn't have that "signature play" like Taylor did. I wouldn't put Craig up on that high of a pedastal. He's not in the H.O.F. and it can be argued that because he played in Walsh's West Coast Offense, which predicates itself on short passes and looking to the check-down receiver, is why he had such good receiving numbers. He only had one rushing year over 1,100 yds.Montana had rice and taylor and roger craig, the greenbay players don’t sniff those guys.
I'll agree that guys like Jon Gruden and John Madden will appreciate the kind of competitor he is, but when you say "talking heads" you are also including guys like Tony Kornheiser and Mike Greenberg and Bob Ryan, etc., sportswriters and radio hosts who have no past playing experience and no reason to appreciate one persons "competitive fire" over another. The back and forth over the past couple years will take away from what he gave the Packers, as far as history is concerned. What he did doesn't compare to any athlete of our lifetime. Nobody has let a situation spiral out of control the way he has. 20 years from now statheads will have his records and "will-to-win", and "ability to make plays" be the first thing they think of when talking about Favre, but not people that follow the game everyday. I was tired of his to-retire-or-not-to-retire act 3 years ago, before he even retired! Every offseason since '03 its been a battle for him. Again, this happens to no one else. Manning and Brady won't have the same problem, just as the rest of the greats haven't had the same problem. Brady has a life outside football, as does Manning. The public has to suffer because Brett Favre can't find anything to do outside of a football field other than weed-whack and hop on a tractor. And because of that, the Vikings fans get to see an overpaid has-been take over their team for a mere $12 million and see their season end surely on an untimely Favre interception in a playoff game. But hey, at least the hillbilly is gonna have a blast while he's doing it! [quote=LA Broker]More guys would do the same thing but usually they are forced out of the league where Brett was recruited.[/quote] He was recruited because anyone with a brain knows if you offer him a couple newspaper headlines, excused absence from training camp, a ride home from the airport and the starting qb position he'll unretire. Others don't get recruited because teams know when they retire they actually mean it.I think the reason most “talking heads” type for the NFL like Favre because they appreciate the kind of competitor he is. He never played for the money but because he loved the game. He always gave honest interviews (which is part of being a professional) never got arrested and played hurt (alot). Sure the back and fourth the last few years was kind of old, but it should not take away what he gave the Packers and the NFL. Look at Brandon Marshall, Mike Vick, Stallworth, ect, ect…the list goes on, these are the bad guys, not a 40 year old who loves to play but is not sure his body will hold up an entire season. I would not be surprised if down the road Manning or Brady have the same issues.
Haha, thanks. You'd think the guy had a one night stand w/my sister or something. But no, he's never done a thing to me and may actually be the salt of the earth.3rdyrp2 - you are on a roll!
People soon forget about his drunken accident in college where half of his stomach was removed and the painkiller addiction he had.
The media in all areas just drains every ounce out of each and every story because none of them can produce an original thought. They are all predictors after the fact and I have no respect for any of them. ESPN has become worse than CNBC and the entire Favre thing proves it. How the hell is it possible that not a single media member has come out and ripped the crap out of Favre ?And that illegal crackback block he threw on Eugene Wilson last night…That was the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen. He literally keeled over and fell into Wilson’s knees as he was running towards him, and easily could have ended his career. Mike Tirico thankfully mentioned something about that being “not cool”, but did you notice that afterwards they spent more time talking how Favre’s midsection probably was hurt on that block than Wilson almost being de-ligamented? Then when asked about it after the game Favre talks about how 13 days ago he was weed-whacking and wasn’t even thinking about blocking techniques. If you can’t block properly and you are a threat to others on the field then get off the damn field.
The link for those who didn't see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0w2mMJOmaw[quote=Ron 14]People soon forget about his drunken accident in college where half of his stomach was removed and the painkiller addiction he had.
The media in all areas just drains every ounce out of each and every story because none of them can produce an original thought. They are all predictors after the fact and I have no respect for any of them. ESPN has become worse than CNBC and the entire Favre thing proves it. How the hell is it possible that not a single media member has come out and ripped the crap out of Favre ?[/quote] Ron, nowhere has it been proven Favre was drunk during that car accident. You can assume that if you want, and it very well could be true, but to accuse him of that is not fair. He was never charged with anything. Painkillers were a result of Favre trying to be a good teammate and play through pain, it got out of control and he fixed it on his own. He has stepped up numerous times for other players dealing with drug issues to help them turn their life around (Koren Robinson). A lot of the media has ripped on Favre the last couple years, that is one reason people are starting to turn on him. Most people it seem form their opinions on what the media tells them to think. Favre does not write the articles that show up twice a day on ESPN, if people are sick of reading it then don't. I get sick of reading about Mike Vick, Pacman Jones, TO, ect...I just stopped reading those articles.[quote=3rdyrp2]And that illegal crackback block he threw on Eugene Wilson last night…That was the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen. He literally keeled over and fell into Wilson’s knees as he was running towards him, and easily could have ended his career. Mike Tirico thankfully mentioned something about that being “not cool”, but did you notice that afterwards they spent more time talking how Favre’s midsection probably was hurt on that block than Wilson almost being de-ligamented? Then when asked about it after the game Favre talks about how 13 days ago he was weed-whacking and wasn’t even thinking about blocking techniques. If you can’t block properly and you are a threat to others on the field then get off the damn field.
The link for those who didn't see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0w2mMJOmaw[/quote] How many NFL teams teach the QB to block? Zero. Why would Favre try to hurt Wilson, the guy is no good, will not play the Vikings this season and has never had beef with Favre. Favre just used poor technique on a split second reaction. Why childress had him at WR in preseason with the play going his way is beyond me. To call that cheap is reaching big time. Look how many O Lineman do illegal chop blocks and that is all they are trained to do is block.He’s been in the league for 18 years. He knows falling down and putting your torso into someones knees who can’t see you isn’t the right move. Hell, throw a weak non-throwing arm shoulder into the guy or something. But doing THAT?? No one does that. How many blocks do you think he’s seen in 18 years? In 18 years worth of practices? (The ones he actually shows up for).
John Taylor - 2 Pro Bowls, 0 All-Pro's, 2 1,000 yd seasons (None over 1,100 yds), 347 recds, 5,598 career yds, 43 TD's Antonio Freeman - 1 Pro Bowl, 1 All-Pro, 3 1,000 yd seasons (2 over 1,200 yds), 477 recs, 7,251 career yds, 61 TD's History looks fonder on players who are older. History hasn't had a chance to look back on Antonio Freeman yet, mainly because he didn't have that "signature play" like Taylor did. I wouldn't put Craig up on that high of a pedastal. He's not in the H.O.F. and it can be argued that because he played in Walsh's West Coast Offense, which predicates itself on short passes and looking to the check-down receiver, is why he had such good receiving numbers. He only had one rushing year over 1,100 yds.[/quote] I noticed you left off Rice...[quote=chief123]Montana had rice and taylor and roger craig, the greenbay players don’t sniff those guys.
I don’t care if he did try to injure the guy… The NFL has watered down the sport so bad “no hitting qbs if they are standing” “you must apply two hands before making a tackle on a running back” “no tackling a reciever if is able to score”.
The NFL used to a good place to see some great football played, I have seen arena games with more hitting. If you are getting paid $12MM/year to throw the ball, then why do i care if Albert Haynesworth smooshes your butt, get up and play..John Taylor - 2 Pro Bowls, 0 All-Pro's, 2 1,000 yd seasons (None over 1,100 yds), 347 recds, 5,598 career yds, 43 TD's Antonio Freeman - 1 Pro Bowl, 1 All-Pro, 3 1,000 yd seasons (2 over 1,200 yds), 477 recs, 7,251 career yds, 61 TD's History looks fonder on players who are older. History hasn't had a chance to look back on Antonio Freeman yet, mainly because he didn't have that "signature play" like Taylor did. I wouldn't put Craig up on that high of a pedastal. He's not in the H.O.F. and it can be argued that because he played in Walsh's West Coast Offense, which predicates itself on short passes and looking to the check-down receiver, is why he had such good receiving numbers. He only had one rushing year over 1,100 yds.[/quote] I noticed you left off Rice...[/quote] Squash, squash, squash...your stepping foot in the lions den. You gotta be careful man! Joe Montana was a 2 time Super Bowl MVP before Rice even graduated college! He threw for 273 TD's in his career and only 55 of them were to Rice. He played with Rice for 5.5 seasons, which was well less than half of Montana's career. Sure, they were more explosive with Rice in there, but Montana's legacy owes nothing to Rice. That's like saying "Well of course Tom Brady was a great QB, he had Randy Moss!"[quote=3rdyrp2][quote=chief123]Montana had rice and taylor and roger craig, the greenbay players don’t sniff those guys.
[quote=Squash1] I don’t care if he did try to injure the guy… The NFL has watered down the sport so bad “no hitting qbs if they are standing” “you must apply two hands before making a tackle on a running back” “no tackling a reciever if is able to score”.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=Squash1] I don’t care if he did try to injure the guy… The NFL has watered down the sport so bad “no hitting qbs if they are standing” “you must apply two hands before making a tackle on a running back” “no tackling a reciever if is able to score”.
[/quote] Come on, we're all for the big hit and seeing someone get leveled, but going low on someones knees when they're not even looking? Lets not turn this into a debate on whether the league needs to be less tough on hitting. We all know they do. Not on this play though.