Index Annuities
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Then why do you feel compelled to comment? Next time if you don’t give a damn don’t comment!
Selling those EIA's must give you a ton of time to watch this forum. Joined Novemeber 10, 2008 and already 489 posts. Do you actually do anything for your clients? "Here you go Mr. Jones I can guarantee you, you will never loose any money and you can participate in the market. See you in 10 years when this matures and we'll put you in another. Don't worry in 30 years when your 500m rollover is now at 2mm, you'll be dead and your heirs will have to worry about taxes not you. This will be my last response to you. Because I don't give a damn about your opinion if you are not helpful to myself or others. You're like the sweat on my balls, you're annoying and you stink, you're not really a problem but when I wash you away I always feel much better.[quote=jkl1v1n6]Then why do you feel compelled to comment? Next time if you don’t give a damn don’t comment!
Selling those EIA's must give you a ton of time to watch this forum. Joined Novemeber 10, 2008 and already 489 posts. Do you actually do anything for your clients? "Here you go Mr. Jones I can guarantee you, you will never loose any money and you can participate in the market. See you in 10 years when this matures and we'll put you in another. Don't worry in 30 years when your 500m rollover is now at 2mm, you'll be dead and your heirs will have to worry about taxes not you. This will be my last response to you. Because I don't give a damn about your opinion if you are not helpful to myself or others. You're like the sweat on my balls, you're annoying and you stink, you're not really a problem but when I wash you away I always feel much better. [/quote]Managing annuities is not a laborious undertaking and it pays really well. It affords me the ability to enjoy getting under the skin of pikers, like you.
I don’t have an issue with EIA’s. I have an issue with how they are sold. I can only rely on my own experience to form this opinion. Last fall I had a prospect bring in his “investment” statements for review. Seven different EIA’s. I asked him why did he purchase these “investments”. He told me that the broker who sold them to him said he would get all the upside to the market with none of the downside. This is not what an EIA does. Maybe I am only talking to prospects who are unhappy with their EIA. But this example is typically what I hear from people that own EIA’s. Long story longer, one of the EIA’s was money the client had put away for college for his son. He says he told the broker this. Client is 46, son is going to college this fall, EIA comes out of surrender in two years. Nice.
[quote=Sam Houston]I don’t have an issue with EIA’s. I have an issue with how they are sold. I can only rely on my own experience to form this opinion. Last fall I had a prospect bring in his “investment” statements for review. Seven different EIA’s. I asked him why did he purchase these “investments”. He told me that the broker who sold them to him said he would get all the upside to the market with none of the downside. This is not what an EIA does. Maybe I am only talking to prospects who are unhappy with their EIA. But this example is typically what I hear from people that own EIA’s. Long story longer, one of the EIA’s was money the client had put away for college for his son. He says he told the broker this. Client is 46, son is going to college this fall, EIA comes out of surrender in two years. Nice.[/quote]
I think you’re lying. Noone would do the paperwork for 7 EIA’s.
I just looked at an annuity statement (Masterdex5) where my client has averaged +6.6% over the last 3 years 4 months. Not all of the upside, but none of the downside. Over the exact time, the S&P returned -11.2%.
This so-called client of yours should be on his knees, thanking that broker for not cutting his son’s college money in half.
On his knees? Considering he bought it in 2003, the return on the EIA is far behind an equity investment. Plus, if he cashes is out WHEN HE NEEDS IT THIS FALL, it will be at a loss. At least he will not have to pay the penalty being he is not 59 1/2. Like I said, in my own experience, EIAs are sold as market upside, CD downside as opposed to a lower gaurantee than a fixed annuity in exchange for the possibility of higher returns. But I am sure you are different Hank as your posts scream integrity.
[quote=Sam Houston]On his knees? Considering he bought it in 2003, the return on the EIA is far behind an equity investment. Plus, if he cashes is out WHEN HE NEEDS IT THIS FALL, it will be at a loss. At least he will not have to pay the penalty being he is not 59 1/2. Like I said, in my own experience, EIAs are sold as market upside, CD downside as opposed to a lower gaurantee than a fixed annuity in exchange for the possibility of higher returns. But I am sure you are different Hank as your posts scream integrity.[/quote]
Again, you are a LIAR. Name a date in 2003 where the S&P is lower than it is right now. I can’t believe that you are stupid enough to post lies without checking your facts. I OWN YOU.
You have made a false assumption. If I invested my clients exclusively in the S&P, you would be correct. I can only deduct from your statement that this is the extent of your investment expertise outside of annuities. Might want to check into some of the other available investments Hank. You rely on a weak product by preying on fear because you lack the ability and desire to make people real money. I am thrilled to have brokers like you in the business. It makes differenciating (sp?) myself so much easier. Thanks Hank!
Hank,
I've brought this up before, but here it goes. If you have your client's best interest at heart, why not impart this strategy: Out of a 100k investment, buy a AAA-rated muni-zero G.O. bond 10 year maturity at about 55 cents on the dollar (55k) Take the other 45k and buy the SPX ETF. In 10 years you have your principal back TAX-FREE, and the upside of the other 45k in the market with only having paid taxes on dividends, and the LTCG's when you sell the ETF. Why wouldn't this work better? Oh, I forgot, your not licensed.[quote=rankstocks]Hank,
I've brought this up before, but here it goes. If you have your client's best interest at heart, why not impart this strategy: Out of a 100k investment, buy a AAA-rated muni-zero G.O. bond 10 year maturity at about 55 cents on the dollar (55k) Take the other 45k and buy the SPX ETF. In 10 years you have your principal back TAX-FREE, and the upside of the other 45k in the market with only having paid taxes on dividends, and the LTCG's when you sell the ETF. Why wouldn't this work better? Oh, I forgot, your not licensed.[/quote]I don't feel like it.
[quote=rankstocks]Hank,
I've brought this up before, but here it goes. If you have your client's best interest at heart, why not impart this strategy: Out of a 100k investment, buy a AAA-rated muni-zero G.O. bond 10 year maturity at about 55 cents on the dollar (55k) Take the other 45k and buy the SPX ETF. In 10 years you have your principal back TAX-FREE, and the upside of the other 45k in the market with only having paid taxes on dividends, and the LTCG's when you sell the ETF. Why wouldn't this work better? Oh, I forgot, your not licensed.[/quote] I'm going to put this in caps so you can clearly understand it: SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEIR MONEY INVESTED IN THE MARKET WHERE THEIR PRINCIPAL IS AT RISK. I think you're at EDJ. Your strategy along with the only "safe" thing you can do at EDJ (CD's) is exactly what I sell against all the time. Just today, I had a prospect about to go to EDJ to put their retirement account in a CD. But after quickly explaining the FIA, I should be getting about $100,000 next week. It's almost too easy... When someone doesn't want to lose anymore money, it means they DON'T WANT TO LOSE ANY MORE MONEY.[quote=snaggletooth][quote=rankstocks]Hank,
I've brought this up before, but here it goes. If you have your client's best interest at heart, why not impart this strategy: Out of a 100k investment, buy a AAA-rated muni-zero G.O. bond 10 year maturity at about 55 cents on the dollar (55k) Take the other 45k and buy the SPX ETF. In 10 years you have your principal back TAX-FREE, and the upside of the other 45k in the market with only having paid taxes on dividends, and the LTCG's when you sell the ETF. Why wouldn't this work better? Oh, I forgot, your not licensed.[/quote] I'm going to put this in caps so you can clearly understand it: SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT THEIR MONEY INVESTED IN THE MARKET WHERE THEIR PRINCIPAL IS AT RISK. I think you're at EDJ. Your strategy along with the only "safe" thing you can do at EDJ (CD's) is exactly what I sell against all the time. Just today, I had a prospect about to go to EDJ to put their retirement account in a CD. But after quickly explaining the FIA, I should be getting about $100,000 next week. It's almost too easy... When someone doesn't want to lose anymore money, it means they DON'T WANT TO LOSE ANY MORE MONEY. [/quote]So you carry Hank's briefcase and fetch his coffee for him now?
No, haven't had to do that for 3 weeks now...thanks for asking though, Hyman.
So you carry Hank’s briefcase and fetch his coffee for him now?
[quote=Sam Houston]You have made a false assumption. If I invested my clients exclusively in the S&P, you would be correct. I can only deduct from your statement that this is the extent of your investment expertise outside of annuities. Might want to check into some of the other available investments Hank. You rely on a weak product by preying on fear because you lack the ability and desire to make people real money. I am thrilled to have brokers like you in the business. It makes differenciating (sp?) myself so much easier. Thanks Hank![/quote]
Sam, please explain to us how you personally outperformed the best investment managers and stockpickers on and off wall street. How did you outperform the guys at American Funds? How did you outperform the best hedge fund managers?
We’re all pretty much aware that the best of the best lost their clients on average about 40-50%. Do we have an unknown Warren Buffet in our midst?
[quote=rankstocks]Hank,
I've brought this up before, but here it goes. If you have your client's best interest at heart, why not impart this strategy: Out of a 100k investment, buy a AAA-rated muni-zero G.O. bond 10 year maturity at about 55 cents on the dollar (55k) Take the other 45k and buy the SPX ETF. In 10 years you have your principal back TAX-FREE, and the upside of the other 45k in the market with only having paid taxes on dividends, and the LTCG's when you sell the ETF. Why wouldn't this work better? Oh, I forgot, your not licensed.[/quote] Say your the client and year 5 you have an emergency liquidity event and NEED your money, in the EIA you have principal guarantee so you loose the CDSC, now your way, how much is available???... Some clients can have NO MARKET RISK...I don't sell EIA currently, (last one I sold was about 6 years ago, but I do see their benefits.[quote=Sam Houston]You have made a false assumption. If I invested my clients exclusively in the S&P, you would be correct. I can only deduct from your statement that this is the extent of your investment expertise outside of annuities. Might want to check into some of the other available investments Hank. You rely on a weak product by preying on fear because you lack the ability and desire to make people real money. I am thrilled to have brokers like you in the business. It makes differenciating (sp?) myself so much easier. Thanks Hank![/quote]
Sam, please explain to us how you personally outperformed the best investment managers and stockpickers I am not a stock picker. I put my clients in equities when the probablilities are in their favor, take them out of equities when the probabilities are not in their favor. on and off wall street. How did you outperform the guys at American Funds? I am not required to be fully invested during bear markets. People forget AFs were very average during the 90s. Why? They are value investors heavy in financials. They did very well during the last bear for this same reason. They are doing very poorly during this bear for the same reason. How did you outperform the best hedge fund managers? I don’t suffer from hubris, nor do I try and predict where the market is going.
We’re all pretty much aware that the best of the best lost their clients on average about 40-50%. If you remained fully invested in equities, this is true. However, if you decreased your equity exposure in Jan 2008 because the market went into a negative trend and the probablities of making money in equities were against you, you are not down 40-50% Do we have an unknown Warren Buffet in our midst? Buffet is also down hard in this market, the difference is he has cash on hand to buy at these price levels. I did not remain fully invested, nor am I telling clients to jump in because stocks are cheap. Whenever the next bull starts, I will miss the beginning which is ok because I missed most of the bear.
[quote=iceco1d]
I smell some green kool-aid in this statement![/quote]
Haven't had an AF ticket in over 4 years.
But yes, at the beginning of my career I sought to invest money the old-school way... solid mutual funds, blue-chip stocks, investment grade bonds, insured munis. Nothing overly high risk and nothing fancy like reverse convertables or structured notes. In the last 8 years, these investments have near decimated some of my clients.
On the flip side, I also invested some of my clients in VAs with living benefits and EIAs... these people are extremely happy with their investments.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again... clients don't care so much that they make money as much as they care about losing it. In the end, EIAs don't lose clients money. You can tell them all day long (when their portfolio took a 40% hit this past year) that investing is a long term thing. But tell that to the client that started investing 10 years ago and are now right back to where they started.
Please, I'm not picking on you, I'm honestly interested to know how you know when to move clients money into and out of the market without predicting where the market is going??? Again, please do not misunderstand the intent of the question, I'm just curious...I don’t suffer from hubris, nor do I try and predict where the market is going.
I did not remain fully invested, nor am I telling clients to jump in because stocks are cheap. Whenever the next bull starts, I will miss the beginning which is ok because I missed most of the bear.
[quote=Sam Houston]
Sam, please explain to us how you personally outperformed the best investment managers and stockpickers I am not a stock picker. I put my clients in equities when the probablilities are in their favor, take them out of equities when the probabilities are not in their favor. on and off wall street. How did you outperform the guys at American Funds? I am not required to be fully invested during bear markets. People forget AFs were very average during the 90s. Why? They are value investors heavy in financials. They did very well during the last bear for this same reason. They are doing very poorly during this bear for the same reason. How did you outperform the best hedge fund managers? I don’t suffer from hubris, nor do I try and predict where the market is going.
We’re all pretty much aware that the best of the best lost their clients on average about 40-50%. If you remained fully invested in equities, this is true. However, if you decreased your equity exposure in Jan 2008 because the market went into a negative trend and the probablities of making money in equities were against you, you are not down 40-50% Do we have an unknown Warren Buffet in our midst? Buffet is also down hard in this market, the difference is he has cash on hand to buy at these price levels. I did not remain fully invested, nor am I telling clients to jump in because stocks are cheap. Whenever the next bull starts, I will miss the beginning which is ok because I missed most of the bear.
[/quote]
So you are actively managing client portfolios and essentially timing the market. To me, this is not smart, but even more risky. You are lucky. One day you will not be.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… clients don’t care so much that they make money as much as they care about losing it. In the end, EIAs don’t lose clients money. You can tell them all day long (when their portfolio took a 40% hit this past year) that investing is a long term thing. But tell that to the client that started investing 10 years ago and are now right back to where they started.
A sophisticated client realizes the effects of inflation on money. An unsophisiticated client just looks at the balance of their account. Investing is not easy nor does it go in a straight line. You need better clients. If your goal is to have a higher account balance on every statement, you should buy a fixed annuity or a cd. If you want the possiblility of growth over inflation, but need a gaurantee, buy a VA. If you want the possiblility of retiring with a lifestyle equal of better than what you have now, call me.[quote=Sam Houston]
If you want the possiblility of retiring with a lifestyle equal of better than what you have now, call me.[/quote]
Uhh… okay… but you still haven’t answered the questions of timing
the market or how you manage to outperform the markets.
And as for sophisticated
clients, I doubt there are many people out there that wouldn’t have like to been in some sort of guaranteed product over the last 10 years than at risk in the market.