[quote=BankFC]

As long as it doesn’t take away from meeting production goals, and is not a conflict of interest in some way with the bank or the client, then it should be okay.

I am producing above my goal, and what time I spend on outside activities is in excess of the 8-5 I put in at the bank.

Yes, I work 8-5.  That's one of the reasons why I came to a bank, for better working conditions.  It has given me the opportunity to have a life again for one, and to do other things for two.

[quote=BankFC]

I have found that very few of them made ANY SIGNIFICANT MONEY by buying and selling stocks.  Some saved over the past 40 years, and the cumulative effect might be significant, but if you look at it over an annualized basis, it isn't that overwhelming.

Most made money in 1 of 2 ways.  Self employed business owner or real estate.

The clients that I have clients who are truly rich, and by rich I mean worth in excess of 10 million or 20 million dollars didn't make their money in mutual funds.  One of them grew up dirt poor, and had NEVER EVEN BOUGHT A STOCK until he met me.  Made all his money in real estate.

That my friends, real estate, is where I believe many fortunes are made.  Not by buying already overpriced houses during a bubble hoping it doesn't pop, but by developing and building residential and commercial real estate.[/quote]

You are correct.  That is why, when I meet young clients (I'm under 30 still - barely) and they ask about the best way to accumulate wealth, I tell them that if they have the start up capital ($10k to get started) and willing to learn and risk tolerance, then by far, real estate is the way to go.  All because of two things 1) cheap money and 2) leverage.

I personally own 5 properties including my own.  RE is a hard deal to beat.  I'd much rather get just an average THREE percent return on my money in RE, than an average 11% return in the markets.  Why?  Leverage.  I only had to put down 10%.  So that 3% return, was actually 30%.  And my renters pay my debt service completely.  And don't forget the tax benefits of having rental props.

And you are right...the development business is an even better return (I own a few books on this and am meetin people in that industry whenever possible). 

The past is littered with the corpses of "can't lose" propositions and real estate isn't looking too healthy, right now.

Also, stocks won't call you at 3AM to say that the toilet is overflowing. Bonds won't cram 6 people into a living space ideally suited for just 2. And neither one will trash the place, either.

Furthermore, let's make sure you don't buy a place with structural defects and mold.

I'll take owning securities over real estate.

[quote=doberman]The past is littered with the corpses of “can’t lose” propositions and real estate isn’t looking too healthy, right now.

Also, stocks won't call you at 3AM to say that the toilet is overflowing. Bonds won't cram 6 people into a living space ideally suited for just 2. And neither one will trash the place, either.

Furthermore, let's make sure you don't buy a place with structural defects and mold.

I'll take owning securities over real estate.[/quote]

Yes, it sometimes isn't easy.  But again, it takes intelligence and (surprise) a long-term outlook.  Your concerns are common among those who have not invested in real estate.  But from real experience I can tell you not once in two years has a toilet ever over-flowed.  Noe one has ever called me in the middle of the night. The worst call has been a malfunctioning  a/c internal unit...but that is why you buy home warranties for $20/month on each property.  I buy in nice upper-middle class neighborhoods too.  I carefully screen my tenants and require large deposits.  I schedule quarterly inspections of each property to insure everything is going smoothl.  I buy for the long-term (10+ years) and could care less what the real estate market does this particular year.  You see...it's like building an advisory business.  You have a plan and you work your plan.

And, like I said...bring on the *measly* 3 (30) percent appreciation years.  Yeah, it's worth it.  As I said, the original poster made a good observation.  Over 50% of the wealth in this country is built through real estate.  I was lucky to have learned this and acted on it at an early age.

[quote=doberman]

Also, stocks won't call you at 3AM to say that the toilet is overflowing. Bonds won't cram 6 people into a living space ideally suited for just 2. [/quote]

Btw...you would use bonds to "accumulate wealth"?  That is what I said real estate is used for.  To me, RE is not liquid enough to be used in retirement to any great deal, for income.  Also, 12% on a good year for stocks vs. 30% on a bad year (yeah, where I own RE that would be a bad year - and I'm talking long-term historically, not just the irrational last 5 years of RE bull market)?  And you get very nice tax benefits with the rental props.  Again, the picture starts to paint itself.

Lastly, I was shocked at your post.  I looked at a lot of your historical posts on other threads and you seemed so intelligent in those threads.

I can tell you being a landlord is a waste. I own two rental properties (Both for sale)and my family owns many, if I had invested the money in a REIT or RE MF I would be far better off today without the headaches of city inspections/fees, tenants, vacancies, etc. I agree maintenance is not a huge issue, but when it comes time to raise the rent it seems like taxes or insurance rise faster than the increase in rents.



Also our parents spend considerable amounts of time on maintaining properties it pretty much consumes their lives, they cannot go on vacation without worrying, they are in court battles at least once or twice per year and constantly showing a house or apartment. I know someone is going to chime in with that is what property managers are for. Obviously you have never had the experience of owning rentals. They will do much of this and take 10% off the top, they do not care about you or your property they only care about their 10% so they stick in crappy tenants, find laborers who do shottty jobs and overpay (Probably getting kickbacks) Property managers- No Way and we’ve dealt with many!

I use all of my real estate holdings for immediate cash flow.  I'm not into flipping properties mainly because I am not into construction, etc.  My stocks are used for retirement and wealth building.  The bulk of my net worth though is in real estate.  I believe a truly balanced financial portfolio is underscored with balanced real estate holdings (not too heavy in any one type of property) and a balanced securities portfolio and then maintaining balance between the both of them...

I understand the misfortunes of real estate as well...I lost EVERY property I owned to Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita, just a year or two after Ivan took my condo in Florida...  But by and far Real Estate is still the best investment long term (in my humble opinion) and I would suggest to anyone trying to get into that business to put away the paralysis of analysis and after talking to some professionals to just get out there and do it!  Just like you did with stocks...

[quote=bankrep1]I can tell you being a landlord is a waste. I own two rental properties (Both for sale)and my family owns many, if I had invested the money in a REIT or RE MF I would be far better off today without the headaches of city inspections/fees, tenants, vacancies, etc. I agree maintenance is not a huge issue, but when it comes time to raise the rent it seems like taxes or insurance rise faster than the increase in rents.

Also our parents spend considerable amounts of time on maintaining properties it pretty much consumes their lives, they cannot go on vacation without worrying, they are in court battles at least once or twice per year and constantly showing a house or apartment. I know someone is going to chime in with that is what property managers are for. Obviously you have never had the experience of owning rentals. They will do much of this and take 10% off the top, they do not care about you or your property they only care about their 10% so they stick in crappy tenants, find laborers who do shottty jobs and overpay (Probably getting kickbacks) Property managers- No Way and we've dealt with many!

[/quote]

You are right about prop managers...I find them expensive and ineffective, so i have never used them.  I have heard of your parents' plight many times.  I was afraid of that and that is why I only invested in very good areas and with quality tenants.  Not ONCE in 2 years have I been through court battle or even had to evict anyone...never.  But then again, my rentals are worth an average of $225,000 each and the rent is around $1250, automatically requring higher quality tenants.

Disclaimer:  Using the ManDate Real Estate Investment Course does not guarantee you positive retursn.  Individual results may vary.

They have several in a college town, high rents/profits = more headaches than the others, but all still have there fair share.

[quote=ManDate][quote=doberman]

Also, stocks won't call you at 3AM to say that the toilet is overflowing. Bonds won't cram 6 people into a living space ideally suited for just 2. [/quote]

Btw...you would use bonds to "accumulate wealth"?  That is what I said real estate is used for.  To me, RE is not liquid enough to be used in retirement to any great deal, for income.  Also, 12% on a good year for stocks vs. 30% on a bad year (yeah, where I own RE that would be a bad year - and I'm talking long-term historically, not just the irrational last 5 years of RE bull market)?  And you get very nice tax benefits with the rental props.  Again, the picture starts to paint itself.

Lastly, I was shocked at your post.  I looked at a lot of your historical posts on other threads and you seemed so intelligent in those threads.

[/quote]

My wife owned rental property when we married. My complaints with rental real estate is from actual experience. My wife offered below- market rent to people she thought had good character: teachers, etc. What we ultimately found out was that they were human garbage who took advantage of her good nature. I convinced her to dump their *sses on the street and sell the properties, which she did.

I know several affluent people who made their fortune owning real estate. Their properties were mostly "shotgun shacks". However, I won't rent out shacks and I won't rent to human garbage, so we invest in stocks instead.

Suffice it to say that real estate ain't my thang!

[quote=bankrep1]I can tell you being a landlord is a waste. I own two
rental properties (Both for sale)and my family owns many, if I had
invested the money in a REIT or RE MF I would be far better off today
without the headaches of city inspections/fees, tenants, vacancies,
etc. I agree maintenance is not a huge issue, but when it comes time
to raise the rent it seems like taxes or insurance rise faster than the
increase in rents. [/quote]



I love REITs, all the benefits of real estate, w/o any of the
headaches. Trouble is everyone else has figured this out for the past
few years, so that a cheap investable REIT is hard find these days.

I speak from experience too having been in the real estate business for about 15 years.  You may not realize it now, but real estate management does nothing but take away time and resources from your primary money maker, which is your investment advisory business.  I am in the process of almost completely exiting the real estate business, selling all but an overnight cabin rental in a regional tourist trap.

Sure, you'll make money using real estate leverage, but you'd make more if you weren't screwing with real estate and were instead focusing on your primary business, which from my experience has much much MUCH more income potential than a few crappy rental properties.

Think you do a good job screening rental candidates and you're thus bullet-proof?  I did too with my fancy 8-page application including employment verification and credit check until my worst tenant nightmare ever...a medical lab manager with good income and impeccable credit.  She destroyed one of my properties...let a cat sh*t and piss everywhere (even though my contract says NO PETS), left raw chicken in a closet, close to a hundred blood and urine specimins boxed in a corner, and too many other horrors to mention here.  Yes, eventually, I got all my loss out of her on the installment plan, including her footing the bill to completely recover all floors, but in no way was it worth the time and aggravation I went through to resolve the problem.

Have I made money in the real estate business?  Absolutely.  Was it worth it?  I'll give you a HELL NO!  You want real estate?  Buy a good REIT or REIT fund, or at most, a share of a private real estate partnership, where someone else worries about the day to day operational sh*t.  You may have not hit the wall of regret yet, but I'd be surprised if you didn't.  For me, it took about 7-8 years, but I've hated it ever since and the happiest day of my life will be when I get completely out of this business and am able to focus my efforts where the most money is to be made.

[quote=kristoffurpol]

I use all of my real estate holdings for immediate cash flow.  I’m not into flipping properties mainly because I am not into construction, etc.  My stocks are used for retirement and wealth building.  The bulk of my net worth though is in real estate.  I believe a truly balanced financial portfolio is underscored with balanced real estate holdings (not too heavy in any one type of property) and a balanced securities portfolio and then maintaining balance between the both of them…

I understand the misfortunes of real estate as well...I lost EVERY property I owned to Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita, just a year or two after Ivan took my condo in Florida...  But by and far Real Estate is still the best investment long term (in my humble opinion) and I would suggest to anyone trying to get into that business to put away the paralysis of analysis and after talking to some professionals to just get out there and do it!  Just like you did with stocks...

[quote=Indyone]

Have I made money in the real estate business?  Absolutely.  Was it worth it?  I'll give you a HELL NO!  You want real estate?  Buy a good REIT or REIT fund, or at most, a share of a private real estate partnership, where someone else worries about the day to day operational sh*t.  You may have not hit the wall of regret yet, but I'd be surprised if you didn't.  For me, it took about 7-8 years, but I've hated it ever since and the happiest day of my life will be when I get completely out of this business and am able to focus my efforts where the most money is to be made.

[/quote]

That's just like Indyone. Ya' never know where he stands on a subject. Always wafflin' and never stickin' to any particular side.

C'mon Indy, tell us how you really feel!

…I didn’t want anyone to be confused…my opinion is that most of us, particularly in this high-potential field, shouldn’t be screwing with a bunch of real estate…personally, it messes with my focus and in the end, I believe it costs me more than it makes me…

I must admit, I am sure if I were completely focused on my investment advisory business, I would be much more than "above goal."  I don't think I'd want to be in the rental business.

I am staying in the new construction business as a side endeavor, but much more "hands-off" lately...but if I had a family (wife/kids) there would be no way I could do both.

The only real estate investing I due these days is into an International Realty fund I bought into about 11 months ago. Up about 34% since then, and going STRONG....

I figure I can take the growth in about 6-8 months, place a down payment, and get into one of those condos near the beach that are falling 5% in price per quarter... Nice...

No question REITs have done well this year, however, you can’t compare

an investment in REITs with traditional real estate ownership. The beauty

of real estate is the leverage you can use. $100K of capital can control

$1M worth of dirt.



90% of the HNW people I meet tell me they’ve made their money in real

estate or stock options, not in the market and certainly not dollar-cost-

averaging. The other 10% inherited it.



I am not adding to my stock portfolio in 2007, instead, I am pooling

funds with a couple of other investors to buy properties in pre-

foreclosure and non-performing loans from banks.

I've got some real estate I'd be happy to sell to you...

Actually...I'm glad you like real estate...gives me hope that some sucker...oops...I mean buyer...will soon snap up my prime real estate also...

[quote=skeedaddy2]No question REITs have done well this year, however, you can't compare
an investment in REITs with traditional real estate ownership. The beauty
of real estate is the leverage you can use. $100K of capital can control
$1M worth of dirt.

[/quote]

This is what, for some reason, no one here on this forum can understand.  Btw...went cold walking today to meet business owners.  Met 8 owners.  4 only invest in real estate (one owns 135 houses and started 30 years ago).