Survivor
45 RepliesJump to last post
Really, return of principal is NOT a benefit??? Then why are the shortest term Treasuries selling at such a frantic rate that their yield is almost exactly zero? Those bond traders must be idiots if return of principal isn’t a benefit.
Yes, I have reviewed most of the major insurer’s current ratings. Are you saying there is similar chance of Allianz and the US Treasury defaulting on their investment vehicles?
[quote=YHWY]Treasure Bonds (especially short-term) and FDIC insured CD’s are widely considered by the industry to be “riskless” as to loss of principal. I believe your position is very close to the line of misrepresentation.
[/quote]
What if the client sells T-bonds or CD’s prior to maturity? Are they indeed risk-less?
Look, I made myself clear regarding what “riskless” is considered to be in our industry. I am willing to stipulate that nothing is “truly” riskless, if that moves us on (your matress could burn, you could forget where you burried it, etc.). My point is that annuities are NOT anywhere near as safe as treasuries and CD, and if you’re not expressing that fact to your clients, then you are bieng dishonest.
[quote=HymanRoth]
[quote=YHWY]Treasure Bonds (especially short-term) and FDIC insured CD’s are widely considered by the industry to be “riskless” as to loss of principal. I believe your position is very close to the line of misrepresentation.
[/quote]
What if the client sells T-bonds or CD’s prior to maturity? Are they indeed risk-less?
[/quote]
Those 30 year surrender periods are going to be a bitch when rates rise.
Crymani! I get it already! Allianz Insurance = US Treasury insurance. I can’t argue with that anymore, you guys win, just have a good attorney on retainer, you know, just in case the Treasury fails.
[quote=YHWY]Look, I made myself clear regarding what “riskless” is considered to be in our industry. I am willing to stipulate that nothing is “truly” riskless, if that moves us on (your matress could burn, you could forget where you burried it, etc.). My point is that annuities are NOT anywhere near as safe as treasuries and CD, and if you’re not expressing that fact to your clients, then you are bieng dishonest.
[/quote]
What I say or don’t say to anyone is none of your business. How do you think I’ve lasted as long as have without the benefit of YOUR point that annuities are not as safe as treasuries and CD’s? Why is it so important to you that I internalize YOUR point? The only “point” you have is covered with hair.
this argument jumped the shark awhile ago, but you guys are using “credit ratings” as if they are legit?
Hank,
I don’t give a shit what you do. Just save the condescending annuity-salesman pitch bullshit. We aren’t your rube clients, remember?
Man, and I’ve been trying so hard to be nice. Oh well.
[quote=YHWY]Hank,
I don’t give a shit what you do. Just save the condescending annuity-salesman pitch bullshit. We aren’t your rube clients, remember?
Man, and I’ve been trying so hard to be nice. Oh well.
[/quote]
I’m delighted that I’ve elicited an emotional response from you. Consider yourself owned.
LOL…I knew from the first page of this thread that we’d be in a pissing match before it was over…
So EZ...I assume this question is on your mind for a reason...how about you...you gonna make it? Why or why not?Who here expect to be in this business a year from now? and why?
Here’s my thought: What else am I good at? Video games? Ice cream tester? What else would I like to be doing if not this? I’d love to teach, but you get paid horribly and I’d have to go back to school. It’s just not worth it. I’d love to be a mechanic, but who would I work for. And I don’t want to fix Accords or Sedonas. If I’m gonna bust my knuckles like that I want it to be on a 67 Shelby or a 69 Boss 302. You know, a car that means something other than transportation. If you’re working on a car like that and your knuckles are bleeding at the end of the day, you still had fun. If your knuckles are bleeding from some soccer mom’s minivan, you’re just pissed.
So, my choice is to focus on continuing to build my business. I think now would be a great time to start building that fee based biz that Jones launched. Had I started it last year I'd be pissed that my income just got cut by a third to half. Now, I can't see it doing much but holding steady for a whilebefore it starts to rise rapidly. Seems like pretty good timing. I had a mentor that told me that 90% of this business is just making it one more year. It's not about hitting this years over inflated goals you put on your business plan or trying to make the company happy with you. It's just surviving to get to play the game some more. This too shall pass. Now isn't the time to fold. With that said, since my local Blue Bunny distributor isn't hiring, I'm gonna make some phone calls.[quote=Hank Moody] [quote=the word]
YHWY,
All your questoins about Hank will be answered if you read the "Worst case scenario thread". He admits that he lies to sell product, regardless of the situation.
[/quote]Point me to the post where I admit to lying.
[/quote] Your right. You don't admit to lying, you just tell the lies and hope your client doesn't catch on. My bad.
[quote=the word][quote=Hank Moody] [quote=the word]
YHWY,
All your questoins about Hank will be answered if you read the "Worst case scenario thread". He admits that he lies to sell product, regardless of the situation.
[/quote]Point me to the post where I admit to lying.
[/quote] Your right. You don't admit to lying, you just tell the lies and hope your client doesn't catch on. My bad.[/quote]
You just told a lie about me and you're calling me a liar?
Hank,
I’m done arguing with you. When beaten on one front, you nimbly switch to another. Have fun with that.
I will, however, submit that you, by way of omission or obfuscation, “lie” ,in effect, about the default risk inherent in, especially fixed (including EI), annuities. I’m sure you’ll have a snappy retort to that claim. I leave it to other reader here to form their own opinions. (if they care, which I doubt).
I have to believe Hank has figured out the more you disclose, the more you sell.Hank,
I’m done arguing with you. When beaten on one front, you nimbly switch to another. Have fun with that.
I will, however, submit that you, by way of omission or obfuscation, “lie” ,in effect, about the default risk inherent in, especially fixed (including EI), annuities. I’m sure you’ll have a snappy retort to that claim. I leave it to other reader here to form their own opinions. (if they care, which I doubt).
[quote=YHWY]Hank,
I’m done arguing with you. When beaten on one front, you nimbly switch to another. Have fun with that.
I will, however, submit that you, by way of omission or obfuscation, “lie” ,in effect, about the default risk inherent in, especially fixed (including EI), annuities. I’m sure you’ll have a snappy retort to that claim. I leave it to other reader here to form their own opinions. (if they care, which I doubt).
[/quote]
How can I argue with someone who LIES about what I say? Just because YOU are too much of a coward to do annuity business doesn’t mean that I am. Just because YOU can’t sell an annuity without lying doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t.
Originally posted by the word
No way i need to calm down. I have to sit here and listen to Bobby spew his smartass comments from his perch on high. You better beleive I am going to let him know when he is wrong and is lying. As is the case in this thread. Snags, I'm not calling my wholesaler for objective info. All of what you said is relevant and I've heard it all before. Like, I said we can agree to disagree. I will not sell them until their is more clarity about the indusrty.
Originally posted by Hank Moody
"Mr. Prospect, I can guarantee you that your worst case scenario will be a 10% lifetime cash flow on ALL of the money you have invested." How is THAT for some clarity?
What kind of clarity do you require? Do you need Balack Obama to tell you that everything's going to be ok? Personally, I'm glad that you can't figure out what to sell. Less competition for the rest of us who have figured out that clients want guarantees. I don't remember being as naive as you when I was 27.
Originally posted by the word
You already admitted that this was a lie. Worst case is you are stuck with your account value after the annuity company goes under. Why do you insist on lying to your clients to make a sell? The clarity I need is for AIG to not need to beg for emergeny capital from the US government, for ING not to beg for emergency capital from the Dutch government, for Hartford to not need emergency capital from Allianz. I would argue that that a sell does not need to be made in every environment. New Post: Well Hank, above is your post from the other thread, with the lie you tell to the prospect underlined and in red. Your words, not mine. Please tell us how that statement is not a lie.
So EZ...I assume this question is on your mind for a reason...how about you...you gonna make it? Why or why not?[/quote] And.....back to the topic at hand. I find it quite remarkable that people would decide to join this industry at a time like this. We all know that it is not the worst time to enter this business, but if I were contemplating it, I highly doubt I would have made the leap at a time like this. I must say, I see a LOT of fear among fellow FA's, even some veterans. Some of them are questioning WTF they are doing. Questioning how they got their clients inot this mess. Many of them that have been out over 10 years made it through 00-02 relatively unscathed because they were very conservative, and fixed income and value did relatively well during that time period. But they look at today, when even a 30/70 portfolio is down 15-20%, a portfolio that has maybe NEVER had a down year based on a 20 year backtest, and they start to wonder if times are changing. Real fear. But I'll be here a year from now. My only fear is my lack of income right now.[quote=ezmoney]Who here expect to be in this business a year from now? and why?