Again, apparently, we will have to limit our discussions to what Mikebutler222 already thinks he knows about

Here mikie, here's a link to information about the plot to overthrow FDR and install a Fascict regime

The Plot to Overthrow FDR. 43 min - Sep 20, 2006. video ... <>

Watch video - 43 min -
<SPAN =a>video.google.com/videoplay?docid=628728631767818729

[quote=Dust Bunny]I think we were supposed to say pretty please and Muhammad may I while bending over to kiss our butts goodbye…   At least that seems to be the Left’s idea of being diplomatic.

...that's pretty catchy...not very politically correct, but catchy nonetheless...[/quote]

...had another thought....Mullah, may I?

[quote=Mandoman]

No.  If it was that easy, then we probably wouldn't be in the mess that we are in at this time. 

However, we might consider reserving the "Bring them on!" comments as a start.  Arrogance is not getting us anywhere.

[/quote]

We're not in a "mess."  We're fighting a war, and by definition that means people get killed and things get broken.  This war as been fought masterfully--we've lost less than 4,000 troops over a matter of years.  In real wars that many guys get killed in a single day.

You really should stop whining about such a small death toll.

As for whining about arrogance.  To those of you without a spine something appears arrogant--but to those of us with spines it appears to be confidence.

Why should the strongest nation on earth not challenge anybody to wage a war against us?

Why do those of your ilk not want to win the war?  Why are you wanting to surrender?

[quote=Indyone][quote=Dust Bunny]I think we were supposed to say pretty please and Muhammad may I while bending over to kiss our butts goodbye…   At least that seems to be the Left’s idea of being diplomatic.

...that's pretty catchy...not very politically correct, but catchy nonetheless...[/quote]

...had another thought....Mullah, may I?

[/quote]

  Thanks, I've never been accused of being overly sensitive or politically correct. 

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

We're not in a "mess."  We're fighting a war, and by definition that means people get killed and things get broken.  This war as been fought masterfully--we've lost less than 4,000 troops over a matter of years.  In real wars that many guys get killed in a single day.

You really should stop whining about such a small death toll.  Tell that to my sister who lost her son in Iraq.  Personal loss is not whining, it is pure pain.

As for whining about arrogance.  To those of you without a spine something appears arrogant--but to those of us with spines it appears to be confidence.  That is a great argument!

Why should the strongest nation on earth not challenge anybody to wage a war against us?  Are you implying that we, as a country, should fight for the sake of fighting?

Why do those of your ilk not want to win the war?  Why are you wanting to surrender?  Hmmph, not sure how you got to this.

Winning a war is when all of the clear objectives are accomplished.  Losing a war is being emboiled in one where there are no clear objectives, objectives are changed to suit the political climate, or when the objectives are actually of a non-politcal nature, such as if someone was gaining personally by the war action.

So, how close are we to achieving our objectives?  Excuse my admitted ignorance, but what are the objectives?

DA,

Your assumptions are way off, you need to recalibrate.

"Mess? What mess?" been to the gas station lately chum? Seen the dollar against foreign currencies lately? How about the debt? And what's going to happen to the people who are going to take it in the shorts because of that debt?

What mess? You mean the abject incompetance of the administration in every direction? That's not a mess, heck Al Gore would have probably err ummm....

Stop whining about such a small death toll and don't even bother to give that legless gimp a second look, he didn't die in the war so he's just a slacker, like the kid that Patton slapped! Stop whining about the death toll and let's watch the Jessica Lynch story again! Stop whining about the death toll, so what if on a per capita basis there are more people dead or injured in this war than others (just so you know I'm making that one up)? Stop whining about the death toll, so what if we've killed tens and tens of thousands of Iraqis to liberate them froma madman who killed tens of thousands. What a whiner!

Stupid presidents say things like "Bring it on" great presidents say things like "Speak softly and carry a big stick!"

How strong is "The strongest nation on Earth" if they can't even beat a rag tag collection of people that we had laid siege to for 12 years before attacking? We are made to look weak in the eyes of the world's "evildoers" not strong.

"Got ilk?" Surrender to whom? Surrender where? We won the war. "Mission Accomplished" Saddam is dead, he's going to stay that way. What are you talking about "surrender"?

Please stop talking in party line ese and think about what you are saying. 

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

DA,

Your assumptions are way off, you need to recalibrate.

"Mess? What mess?" been to the gas station lately chum? Seen the dollar against foreign currencies lately? How about the debt? And what's going to happen to the people who are going to take it in the shorts because of that debt?

What mess? You mean the abject incompetance of the administration in every direction? That's not a mess, heck Al Gore would have probably err ummm....

Stop whining about such a small death toll and don't even bother to give that legless gimp a second look, he didn't die in the war so he's just a slacker, like the kid that Patton slapped! Stop whining about the death toll and let's watch the Jessica Lynch story again! Stop whining about the death toll, so what if on a per capita basis there are more people dead or injured in this war than others (just so you know I'm making that one up)? Stop whining about the death toll, so what if we've killed tens and tens of thousands of Iraqis to liberate them froma madman who killed tens of thousands. What a whiner!

Stupid presidents say things like "Bring it on" great presidents say things like "Speak softly and carry a big stick!"

How strong is "The strongest nation on Earth" if they can't even beat a rag tag collection of people that we had laid siege to for 12 years before attacking? We are made to look weak in the eyes of the world's "evildoers" not strong.

"Got ilk?" Surrender to whom? Surrender where? We won the war. "Mission Accomplished" Saddam is dead, he's going to stay that way. What are you talking about "surrender"?

Please stop talking in party line ese and think about what you are saying. 

[/quote]

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=Mandoman]

We're not in a "mess."  We're fighting a war, and by definition that means people get killed and things get broken.  This war as been fought masterfully--we've lost less than 4,000 troops over a matter of years.  In real wars that many guys get killed in a single day.

You really should stop whining about such a small death toll.

As for whining about arrogance.  To those of you without a spine something appears arrogant--but to those of us with spines it appears to be confidence.

Why should the strongest nation on earth not challenge anybody to wage a war against us?

Why do those of your ilk not want to win the war?  Why are you wanting to surrender?

[/quote]

Your kids aren't one of the lucky 4000 huh?

As for winning the war, we already did that. Our president, dressed in a flight suit, stood in front of a big banner exclaiming so. It was a great day and our troops were coming home in six months. He told us that too. Oh, wait, that was Cheney. Sorry.

Anyone who has taken the time to educate themselves on the subject knows Clinton took the correct course of action regarding Al-Qaeda. A missile strike killing Saudi royalty probably wouldn't have played well in Riyadh. The outcome of having had not one shot at Bin laden, but at least two and not taking them will be debated thru the ages. Only those who believe bin Laden's death would have stopped 9/11 hold Clinton responsible. Unfortunately, many of those people are the same people who believe Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

The current war has shown us that Bush1 took the correct action in the Gulf war, leaving Iraq's government in place. We are paying and will pay for years the price of Bush/Cheney not listening to the smartest guy in the room, Colin Powell, and moving forward with an ill conceived, ill planned ,ill executed plan for war.

We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

[quote=BondGuy]

We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

[/quote]

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?

Who will be responsible for the next attack?  How about Islamic extremists?

Why do those of your ilk want to blame the United States, when the blame is clearly on the shoulders of Islam?

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Again, apparently, we will have to limit our discussions to what Mikebutler222 already thinks he knows about

Here mikie, here's a link to information about the plot to overthrow FDR and install a Fascict regime

The Plot to Overthrow FDR. 43 min - Sep 20, 2006. video ... <>
Watch video - 43 min -
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=628728631767818729

[/quote]

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Futher, when FDR started implimenting his reforms, the industrialists tried to buy the army to effect a coup d e'tat (Roosevelt was informed of this by one of the generals who saw his duty clear). [/quote]

You need to get your conspiracy theories straight. Gen. Butler never said anyone tried to "buy the Army", he claimed that a cabal of industrialists and Wall St types had approched him to lead an "army" of Vets upset with the government to raise a popular uprising that would topple FDR.

[quote=Mandoman][quote=mikebutler222]

I'm sorry to be the one bringing you the bad news, but the Jihadi's really don't care about your views on US foreign policy, they don't care about diplomacy, they don't care about what you call arrogance. All they care about is their twisted version of Islam, reestablishing it, Islamic government and Shir’a law across the old Caliphate map, and killing non-believers. They’re not just a group of misunderstood “Patriots” who happen to have every view in common with the average NPR listener except the how to change the course of US policies.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

You don't have to believe me, simply read what they've said themselves. And, if after you're read their words, if it still bothers you to accept the world as it is, please have the courtesy to step aside and let others who don’t shrink back from the grisly nature of our enemy do what needs to be done keep you and the other sheep safe from it.

No offense.

[/quote]

You asked, so I answered.  You asked and Jihadi's don't care what I think.... So, how long have you been a Jihadi?[/quote]

Yeah, that's it, I'm a Jihadi, and I've spent the last 15 years going deep cover in the securities industry. However, after all that work to dig myself in, I just can't help but post on an internet website about the plans.

OK, back from the Twilight Zone. I suggest you take a moment of two to actually read what the Jihadies themselves say their agenda's about. It has nothing to do with your issues with US foreign policy.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Please stop talking in party line ese and think about what you are saying. 

[/quote]

Not bad advice. Are you going to follow it?

[quote=BondGuy]Anyone who has taken the time to educate themselves on the subject knows Clinton took the correct course of action regarding Al-Qaeda. [/quote]

You just have to be joking.

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=BondGuy]

We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

[/quote]

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?[/quote]

Bondguy doesn't think these guys exist.

Let's see, they tried to pay a general to lead an army of veterans to force the president to accetpt changes that would essentially render the Constitution null and void. That is better than just "essentially " what I said happened.

Interestingly, they, like this administration does, said that they were intending to do the exact opposite of what they were intending to do. they said they were looking to defend the Constitution, when in fact they were looking to destroy it.

In either case, the fact remains that there were lots of people looking for an alternate system to the one we had. The nation was disolving and FDR ressurected it.

So when whomeverit was that wants to just ignore the Hoover and Roosevelt presidencies when calculating the relative performance of the Dow, I say, read a book! 

[quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=BondGuy]

We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

[/quote]

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?

Who will be responsible for the next attack?  How about Islamic extremists?

Why do those of your ilk want to blame the United States, when the blame is clearly on the shoulders of Islam?

[/quote]

Sorry, I clipped my comments.

For the reading comprehension impaired; We can debate endlessly who is responsible  for not stopping the 9/11 terrorist, however, not stopping the next attack, regardless of who is in office, is squarely on Bush.

Blame Islam? Blaming Islam is like blaming the car for the crash. Or more closely, blaming the gun for the murder. It's not the religion that is to blame, it's its misuse by the hate mongers who wish to dominate the world. And make no mistake, i'm no fan of religion. Its latest use as a hammer to murder people is nothing new. Though I'm amazed at how many stupid people there are in the world to fall into such traps. Of course that's all part of the process, keep'em uneducated, keep'em stupid. It's worked throughout history.

That said, the current mess and mismangement in Iraq, all us.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Let's see, they tried to pay a general to lead an army of veterans to force the president to accetpt changes that would essentially render the Constitution null and void. That is better than just "essentially " what I said happened.[/quote]

No, not even close. You said someone tried to "buy" the Army.

[quote=mikebutler222]

Yeah, that's it, I'm a Jihadi, and I've spent the last 15 years going deep cover in the securities industry. However, after all that work to dig myself in, I just can't help but post on an internet website about the plans.

OK, back from the Twilight Zone. I suggest you take a moment of two to actually read what the Jihadies themselves say their agenda's about. It has nothing to do with your issues with US foreign policy.

[/quote]

Okay, while I'm reading about you, why don't you go back to my previous response and answer my questions?  Thanks.

[quote=BondGuy]

Blame Islam? Blaming Islam is like blaming the car for the crash. [/quote]

No one said "blame Islam". We've all been pretty clear that we're talking about Islamic extremists. Those would be the people who believe their religion calls them to establish the dominance of their religion over all others, to kill non-believers and to fly planes into buildings.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Failing to recognize what motivates them, even though they’ve told you many, many times, just so you can overlay the Left’s standard argument that essentially says that the terrorists simply share their (the Left’s) dismay with US foreign policy, it’s just that they’re (the terrorists) violent about it, is tedious. It pretends that the terrorists share your view of the world and that if we only followed policies the Left has espoused forever, we could reach common ground and peaceful coexistence with the Jihadies. No doubt they’d chuckle of that one as they cut off your head. It’s like a death pact of some sort.

Or more closely, blaming the gun for the murder. It's not the religion that is to blame, it's its misuse by the hate mongers who wish to dominate the world. And make no mistake, i'm no fan of religion. Its latest use as a hammer to murder people is nothing new. Though I'm amazed at how many stupid people there are in the world to fall into such traps. Of course that's all part of the process, keep'em uneducated, keep'em stupid. It's worked throughout history.

That said, the current mess and mismangement in Iraq, all us.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Devil’sAdvocate]

[quote=BondGuy]

We can debate endlessly who is responsible for 9/11 however, regardless of who's sitting in the oval office, the next attack is squarely on Bush. I fear that a next is not an if, only a when and where.

[/quote]

Who was responsible for 9/11?  How about Islamic extremists?[/quote]

Bondguy doesn't think these guys exist.

[/quote]

Oh, i know that they exist. And I know those who causually follow current events call them islamic extremists.

They are extremists, that we agree on. Unforunately for the Islamic religion many believe this is a religious war, Islam verus the world. It's not. It's a war waged by power hungery madmen who have hijacked Islam to achieve their goals of domination. First over their own people and then over the rest of us. That you keep insisting on making this a religious war is where we disagree. For the leaders of Al-Qaeda, Islam is nothing more than a tool to spread hate, maintain control, and excite the masses to take action. It may be a religious war to the misled followers and to those like you, who don't know any better, even though you should. However, it's not any more a religious war than was WW2.

Unfortunately for all of us, the same crew that brought us the bungled Katrina clean up and mission accomplished on board the USS Abraham Lincoln are the same people charged with protecting us from future attacks. They've provided terrorist worldwide with a first class training ground while the terrorist head remain at large operating openly and free from worry of attack or apprehension. I work in a high rise tower in a downtown office canyon of a major city that has bullseye written all over it. Yeah, I feel safe.