[quote=doright]It's going to be a lot harder for product pushers to survive. Only those that are positioned properly will survive. You must create a trusting relationship with clients and deliver more than just returns. Soon as their portfolio loose (1 out of every 4 yrs is negative) the client will bolt. Unless, you offer more. A true advisor/planner starts with the financial plan and conducts meetings at least 2 times a yr. If you're not staying in touch with your clients on a periodic basis why shouldn't they just buy no-loads or ETFs?

People should get something for the fees. Don't tell me you're picking superior funds, everything regresses to the mean in the long run.

[/quote]

[quote=tjc45][quote=stanwbrown]

You may be able to pay salaries to people who simply service accounts, but you'll never be able to hire the risk takers that are good at gathering assets (which is more important to the firm than simply servicing existing accounts) with a salary.

[/quote]

I'm with stan on this one. When the suits manage to turn this into a job most of the talent will flee. Too many other ways to make a living on your own hard work and ingenuity to stay with something that isn't doing that anymore. Yet, I don't see that happening. Not so long ago with the emergence of E-Trade everyone said our side of the biz was headed for the tar pits. Who was it who said rumors of his demise had been being greatly overstated? 5 years later and our side is gaining assets, not losing them. I do believe that the management suite will continue to reduce our slice of the pie. We're the biggest cost and the easiest target when it comes to increasing profits.

The other part of this topic, gaining client assets through asset distribution to China,metals,etc.? OK, if you say so. I have yet to meet a prospect, client, rollover recepient, Trust fund baby, business owner or any other investor who gives a sh*t. I don't think anyone has ever forked over their life's savings to me because of the investments I planned to make. They bought me, not an asset allocation model. It was and is assumed that I will make the right investments for them and make changes as necessary. It has nothing to do with correlating asset classes, efficient frontiers, sharpes ratios or anything else we can dream up to try to justify a fee. Not that there's anything wrong with those things, they can help us to do the  job, just that they have nothing to do with why people do business with us. Thus, have nothing to do with our ability to gather assets.

[/quote]

[quote=radernation-1]

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

Long Term trends still favor them and silver. www.buysilvernow.com   Sunday mornings from 7-9am p.s.t. Hard Money Watch -Financial Trends in the Marketplace you can go to www.kfnn.com and listen online.

 

What a steamy load.....

[/quote] [/quote]

[/quote]

I read it, I just don't buy the theory or the concept of using the podunk "firm" of two people you gave us the website for. I still remember the price path metals took from 1976 to 2004. Hardly a place to seek refuge there...

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

Long Term trends still favor them and silver. www.buysilvernow.com   Sunday mornings from 7-9am p.s.t. Hard Money Watch -Financial Trends in the Marketplace you can go to www.kfnn.com and listen online.

 

What a steamy load.....

[/quote] [/quote]

[/quote]

I read it, I just don't buy the theory or the concept of using the podunk "firm" of two people you gave us the website for. I still remember the price path metals took from 1976 to 2004. Hardly a place to seek refuge there...

This has gotten interesting.  My job, as I see it, is to help my clients achieve their financial goals. That's done by first establishing trust. Once the relationship is built, it will survive bad investments and bad markets. Both are going to happen. A client who trusts you will give you a certain amount of rope. And I don't care how good you are, everyone of you will use some of that rope. There will always be a better investment than what you've got in your client's portfolio. Your clients have to go no farther than their local hardresser to hear all about it. Performance based relationships are a short lived mistake. If nothing else, take that on experience.

As for product pushing, I push product, Tax Free Bonds. Yeah, I'm a dinosaur, but I'm also eatting  lot of "FEE ADVISORS" lunch. I use the bonds to gain a seat at the table(TRUST). Once there I deliver service that most advisors can't or won't match. It's only a matter of time before I have all the assets or a sizable chunk. If nothing else I've got a bond buyer to work with and the advisor in the #1 chair has to deal with me. Ironically, it is performance that drives the first trade. Call it an appeal to greed. I call it human nature. Everyone is looking for the best yield/returns/deal. I give them that on the bonds I offer. It's simple, and it works. The biggest producers that i know of in this business are product pushers. If we're on the way out it's news to us.

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1] Well Stan you  would have needed to pay attention to my ongoing conversation with Joe Da Brkr to get a clue on what I was talking about earlier.

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

Long Term trends still favor them and silver. www.buysilvernow.com   Sunday mornings from 7-9am p.s.t. Hard Money Watch -Financial Trends in the Marketplace you can go to www.kfnn.com and listen online.

 

What a steamy load.....

[/quote] [/quote]

[/quote]

I read it, I just don't buy the theory or the concept of using the podunk "firm" of two people you gave us the website for. I still remember the price path metals took from 1976 to 2004. Hardly a place to seek refuge there...

[/quote]

[quote=tjc45]

This has gotten interesting.  My job, as I see it, is to help my clients achieve their financial goals. That's done by first establishing trust. Once the relationship is built, it will survive bad investments and bad markets. Both are going to happen. A client who trusts you will give you a certain amount of rope. And I don't care how good you are, everyone of you will use some of that rope. There will always be a better investment than what you've got in your client's portfolio. Your clients have to go no farther than their local hardresser to hear all about it. Performance based relationships are a short lived mistake. If nothing else, take that on experience.

As for product pushing, I push product, Tax Free Bonds. Yeah, I'm a dinosaur, but I'm also eatting  lot of "FEE ADVISORS" lunch. I use the bonds to gain a seat at the table(TRUST). Once there I deliver service that most advisors can't or won't match. It's only a matter of time before I have all the assets or a sizable chunk. If nothing else I've got a bond buyer to work with and the advisor in the #1 chair has to deal with me. Ironically, it is performance that drives the first trade. Call it an appeal to greed. I call it human nature. Everyone is looking for the best yield/returns/deal. I give them that on the bonds I offer. It's simple, and it works. The biggest producers that i know of in this business are product pushers. If we're on the way out it's news to us.

[/quote]

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1] Well Stan you  would have needed to pay attention to my ongoing conversation with Joe Da Brkr to get a clue on what I was talking about earlier.

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

Long Term trends still favor them and silver. www.buysilvernow.com   Sunday mornings from 7-9am p.s.t. Hard Money Watch -Financial Trends in the Marketplace you can go to www.kfnn.com and listen online.

 

What a steamy load.....

[/quote] [/quote]

[/quote]

I read it, I just don't buy the theory or the concept of using the podunk "firm" of two people you gave us the website for. I still remember the price path metals took from 1976 to 2004. Hardly a place to seek refuge there...

[/quote]

No offense Rader, but when folks start talking about "The Era of Hard Assets" and quoting Stephen Leeb, he of big-lettered promotional newsletter fame, I know that I'm glad I sold my Newmont Mining for a handsome profit around 42.......
[/quote]

[quote=radernation-1] Joe , no offense to you but very few people are talking Tangible Assets if you look at some of the stocks that have performed well like Cvx , Apa, Wtr, Ptr,Gold has went from low 200s to low 400s Silver from 4.53 to 7 dollars plus.In addition we are in a huge trade deficit , the consumer is getting tapped out, and we have a housing bubble forming. The long term trend favors a weak dollar and the Dow ,Naz ,and S&P have been flat. And if you want some good info go to www.financialsenseonline.com

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1] Well Stan you  would have needed to pay attention to my ongoing conversation with Joe Da Brkr to get a clue on what I was talking about earlier.

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

Long Term trends still favor them and silver. www.buysilvernow.com   Sunday mornings from 7-9am p.s.t. Hard Money Watch -Financial Trends in the Marketplace you can go to www.kfnn.com and listen online.

 

What a steamy load.....

[/quote] [/quote]

[/quote]

I read it, I just don't buy the theory or the concept of using the podunk "firm" of two people you gave us the website for. I still remember the price path metals took from 1976 to 2004. Hardly a place to seek refuge there...

[/quote]

No offense Rader, but when folks start talking about "The Era of Hard Assets" and quoting Stephen Leeb, he of big-lettered promotional newsletter fame, I know that I'm glad I sold my Newmont Mining for a handsome profit around 42.......
[/quote]

[/quote]

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1] Well Stan you  would have needed to pay attention to my ongoing conversation with Joe Da Brkr to get a clue on what I was talking about earlier.

[quote=stanwbrown][quote=radernation-1]

Long Term trends still favor them and silver. www.buysilvernow.com   Sunday mornings from 7-9am p.s.t. Hard Money Watch -Financial Trends in the Marketplace you can go to www.kfnn.com and listen online.

 

What a steamy load.....

[/quote] [/quote]

[/quote]

I read it, I just don't buy the theory or the concept of using the podunk "firm" of two people you gave us the website for. I still remember the price path metals took from 1976 to 2004. Hardly a place to seek refuge there...

[/quote]

Metals did well terrible market after they, themselves, came out of a 20 year bear market. Ever heard the phrase "dead cat bounce"? How’d you like to be the guy that bought gold (“Can’t miss, pal. They ain’t making any more and the Chinese are gobbling all there is of it up”) in 1976 @ nearly $1000?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

As to your "buysilvernow" website run by a married couple (or their radio show) as a source for a rep for investment info, you must be kidding. These are the usual massive markup types that come out of the woodwork when the market gets tough to peddle "can't lose" hard assets and disappear when metals go back to sleep and the market gets back to work. Much like the “buy real estate with no money down” types, they’re hucksters.

I really detest the doom and gloomers who preach about the coming financial collapse when the only thing between you and ruin is the gold coins they want to sell you (with big mark-ups and massive spreads). Spare me the endless talk about the coming calamity of trade deficits (we’ve been hearing that for 30 years) real estate bubbles and the consumer being “tapped out”.

My clients all own a percentage of alternative assets, but they own them in much more portable forms, without the big mark-ups and spreads and they don’t speculate on “bags of coins”. There are much smarter ways to participate in commodities than that.

What sort of firm are you with, btw?

Finally, wtf was even vaguely useful to a professional on “financialsenseonline”??????

[quote=stanwbrown]

Metals did well terrible market after they, themselves, came out of a 20 year bear market. Ever heard the phrase "dead cat bounce"? How’d you like to be the guy that bought gold (“Can’t miss, pal. They ain’t making any more and the Chinese are gobbling all there is of it up”) in 1976 @ nearly $1000?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />

As to your "buysilvernow" website run by a married couple (or their radio show) as a source for a rep for investment info, you must be kidding. These are the usual massive markup types that come out of the woodwork when the market gets tough to peddle "can't lose" hard assets and disappear when metals go back to sleep and the market gets back to work. Much like the “buy real estate with no money down” types, they’re hucksters.

I really detest the doom and gloomers who preach about the coming financial collapse when the only thing between you and ruin is the gold coins they want to sell you (with big mark-ups and massive spreads). Spare me the endless talk about the coming calamity of trade deficits (we’ve been hearing that for 30 years) real estate bubbles and the consumer being “tapped out”.

My clients all own a percentage of alternative assets, but they own them in much more portable forms, without the big mark-ups and spreads and they don’t speculate on “bags of coins”. There are much smarter ways to participate in commodities than that.

What sort of firm are you with, btw?

Finally, wtf was even vaguely useful to a professional on “financialsenseonline”??????

 

[/quote]

[quote=stanwbrown]

Metals did well terrible market after they, themselves, came out of a 20 year bear market. Ever heard the phrase "dead cat bounce"? How’d you like to be the guy that bought gold (“Can’t miss, pal. They ain’t making any more and the Chinese are gobbling all there is of it up”) in 1976 @ nearly $1000?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />

As to your "buysilvernow" website run by a married couple (or their radio show) as a source for a rep for investment info, you must be kidding. These are the usual massive markup types that come out of the woodwork when the market gets tough to peddle "can't lose" hard assets and disappear when metals go back to sleep and the market gets back to work. Much like the “buy real estate with no money down” types, they’re hucksters.

I really detest the doom and gloomers who preach about the coming financial collapse when the only thing between you and ruin is the gold coins they want to sell you (with big mark-ups and massive spreads). Spare me the endless talk about the coming calamity of trade deficits (we’ve been hearing that for 30 years) real estate bubbles and the consumer being “tapped out”.

My clients all own a percentage of alternative assets, but they own them in much more portable forms, without the big mark-ups and spreads and they don’t speculate on “bags of coins”. There are much smarter ways to participate in commodities than that.

What sort of firm are you with, btw?

Finally, wtf was even vaguely useful to a professional on “financialsenseonline”??????

 

[/quote]

[quote=radernation-1]

[quote=stanwbrown]

Metals did well terrible market after they, themselves, came out of a 20 year bear market. Ever heard the phrase "dead cat bounce"? How’d you like to be the guy that bought gold (“Can’t miss, pal. They ain’t making any more and the Chinese are gobbling all there is of it up”) in 1976 @ nearly $1000?<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />

As to your "buysilvernow" website run by a married couple (or their radio show) as a source for a rep for investment info, you must be kidding. These are the usual massive markup types that come out of the woodwork when the market gets tough to peddle "can't lose" hard assets and disappear when metals go back to sleep and the market gets back to work. Much like the “buy real estate with no money down” types, they’re hucksters.

I really detest the doom and gloomers who preach about the coming financial collapse when the only thing between you and ruin is the gold coins they want to sell you (with big mark-ups and massive spreads). Spare me the endless talk about the coming calamity of trade deficits (we’ve been hearing that for 30 years) real estate bubbles and the consumer being “tapped out”.

My clients all own a percentage of alternative assets, but they own them in much more portable forms, without the big mark-ups and spreads and they don’t speculate on “bags of coins”. There are much smarter ways to participate in commodities than that.

What sort of firm are you with, btw?

Finally, wtf was even vaguely useful to a professional on “financialsenseonline”??????

 

[/quote]

[/quote]

We've been hearing the consumer is "tapped out" for decades, just as we heard that the trade deficit will kill us and that Japn Inc will be buying America soon. BTW, you're aware that "average savings" numbers ignore every dollar people have in IRAs, 401ks etc.,, right?

[quote=radernation-1]

They have been in Business since 1982 and they have been doing their show since 1989 ..

[/quote]

BFD, they are a couple that sells, literally "bags of coins". Confusing speculating on coins with investing is just silly.

[quote=radernation-1]

by the way Gold topped out at 800$ in 1980 and Silver was at 50$

[/quote]

Gold at $800 in 1980 is $2031.73 in 2005 dollars. Some value, eh?

[quote=radernation-1]

Financial Sense Online is a very good site for information

[/quote]

Perhaps I missed the good info, could you post a sample?

[quote=radernation-1]

Jim Pupulava is a very knowledgable person who has been managing money for over 30 years .

[/quote]

You mean Jim Pulava, the guy preaching about the coming "The Perfect Financial Storm"? Who does he manage for?

[quote=radernation-1]

In addition I would hope you don't think that Jim Rogers  is an idiot he buys into the same strategy .

[/quote]

Rogers (who missed the entire 1990s bull market warning about the coming inflation storm) runs a commodity fund. He's a fine example of a broken clock, as anyone who ever saw him on CNBC can tell you.

[quote=radernation-1]

By the way I also pointed out that Gold and Silver STOCKS have done well during 2000-02 and today Oil and Water stocks have outperformed the major indices.

[/quote]

They're a sector. Sectors go in and out of favor. That's never changed and it doesn't signal that for the first time in history trees will grow to the sky. For my money, they've had their run, just as deep, deep value had it's run as an investment style, and momentum growth before it.

[quote=radernation-1]

 If you want to still believe that the "hold and Hope" investment theory will work today thats your choice.

[/quote]

See above about sectors and investment styles. You haven't reinvented the wheel or discovered anything of real value just because a given style has had a good run. Buying "bags of coins" isn't the solution. Anyone who preaches a single sector or sytle as "the" solution to coming times is a hopeless hack.

[quote=radernation-1]

If you want to listen to the talking heads on Tv and believe their word is gospel go ahead.

[/quote]

There are plenty of talking heads spouting the same "hard assets" story you are. Again, BFD...

[quote=radernation-1]

I am not a gloom and doomer . I believe prepare for the worst and expect the best. I am saying that holding some physical silver and gold and investing in Natural Resources stocks can be a good protection/hedge against some of the economic troubles laying ahead.

[/quote]

Holding "some" is always a wise move. Just be smart about the form you chose. You can be certain that Jimmy Rodgers isn't buying "bags of coins" from couples that have a radio show and a website.

As to "economic troubles laying ahead", there isn't a time in human history when you can't make this gloom and doom case, and you would have been wrong 95% of the time. You figure there have been no tough economic times since Gold did its swan dive in 1980 (that it is yet to recover from)? You want to talk risk? How's a $1600 and ounce loss in a "protection" asset over a 25 year period sound?

[quote=radernation-1]

" I might suggest reading The Financial Times ...

[/quote]

The FT is on my list of regular reads. You'll find a variety of views there, as you'll find in every real financial publication.

[quote=radernation-1]

...on a regular basis and Financial Sense Online.

[/quote]

Show me something from there you consider worth reading...

[quote=radernation-1]

 As far as my firm I am an indy. I have been since I got into the industry.

[/quote]

I'm betting that's fairly recently and that you sell coins. Call it a hunch...

Well you are wrong on both counts. I focus on individual stocks and I have been in the industry for over 5 years . As far as showing you something worth reading thats not my job to do. Your a "genius " figure it out yourself. The big money on anything is made when there is blood on the streets. no idiot would buy something at the top and watch it drop in 60-80% in value. Again another example of the “hold and hope” investment strategies that they/their broker believe in. NOW DO NOT MAKE RAIDER FAN ANGRY or YOU WILL BE BANISHED TO THE BLACK HOLE !!! And You will wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat and hear the words "I AM YOUR FATHER STAN SKYWALKER!!!Signed Darth Rader!!!

[quote=radernation-1] As far as showing you something worth reading thats not my job to do.

[/quote]

Yeah, I figured you couldn't find anything there.... but since you recommended it, I thought I'd let you try..

[quote=radernation-1]

The big money on anything is made when there is blood on the streets. no idiot would buy something at the top and watch it drop in 60-80% in value.

[/quote]

And, of course, you know when you're buying at the top, right? LOL Say, someone buying gold now at $400+, is he buying near/at the top? You figure the "buy hard assets" types were telling people NOT to buy gold in 1980?

[quote=radernation-1]

Again another example of the "hold and hope" investment strategies that they/their broker believe in.

[/quote]

"Hold and hope"... sounds like the motto of someone who not only thinks there's such a thing as a "new era of hard assets", but thinks he can time the market too.

I pity those two clients....

[quote=radernation-1]

NOW DO NOT MAKE RAIDER FAN ANGRY or YOU WILL BE BANISHED TO THE BLACK HOLE !!!!! And You will wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat and hear the words "I AM YOUR FATHER STAN SKYWALKER!!!!!!!Signed Darth Rader!!![/quote]

Sounds like it's time for a meds adjustment....

Well Stan I must admit you are fun to go back and forth with. As far as a meds adjustment I wonder what you keep in your medicine cabinet. now I think we have both made a good case for what we believe in so lets call a truce and find something else down the road to go back and forth on. As long as you don’t like the Broncos /Chiefs/Chargers I am sure we can get along.

[quote=radernation-1]Well you are wrong on both counts. I focus on
individual stocks and I have been in the industry for over 5 years . As
far as showing you something worth reading thats not my job to do. Your
a “genius " figure it out yourself. The big money on anything is made
when there is blood on the streets. no idiot would buy something at the
top and watch it drop in 60-80% in value. Again another example of the
"hold and hope” investment strategies that they/their broker believe
in. NOW DO NOT MAKE RAIDER FAN ANGRY or YOU WILL BE BANISHED TO THE
BLACK HOLE !!! And You will wake up in the middle of the night in a
cold sweat and hear the words "I AM YOUR FATHER STAN SKYWALKER!!!Signed Darth Rader!!![/quote]



Hey Stan…pay attention now…he’s been in the business for FIVE WHOLE YEARS!!! 

[quote=joedabrkr][quote=radernation-1]Well you are wrong on both counts. I focus on individual stocks and I have been in the industry for over 5 years . As far as showing you something worth reading thats not my job to do. Your a "genius " figure it out yourself. The big money on anything is made when there is blood on the streets. no idiot would buy something at the top and watch it drop in 60-80% in value. Again another example of the "hold and hope" investment strategies that they/their broker believe in. NOW DO NOT MAKE RAIDER FAN ANGRY or YOU WILL BE BANISHED TO THE BLACK HOLE !!!!! And You will wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat and hear the words "I AM YOUR FATHER STAN SKYWALKER!!!!!!!Signed Darth Rader!!![/quote]

Hey Stan....pay attention now.....he's been in the business for FIVE WHOLE YEARS!!! 
[/quote]