MWD layoff started
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[quote=moneyadvisor][quote=MSdog][quote=moneyadvisor]
[quote=ringo][quote=tmorris93]I am new to the business, but with the payout % that I have seen, I wonder why anyone would still be in this business after 8 years and only 250k in production? [/quote] [/quote]
Come on.....if you could make $100,000 per year, by doing as little as possible, why would you leave???? 100 hundred grand is still a pretty darn good income. Do you know how many accountants are killing themselves with 90 hour work weeks, to make a hundy?? Middle managers at companies...same thing.
[/quote]
250k in production ain't $100k in gross income. It's more like $80k at a wirehouse.
[/quote]
No......$250,000 gross.....is.....$100k - $125,000. depending on the account. You LOSERS who make crap up, and spew unfounded information regarding the practices of "the wires" are just ignorant!
[/quote]
We were talking about a rep who worked at MS. At MS production under $250k is paid (as it says above) AB 37%, TB 34% (my bad for thinking 32%). Thus, even at 100% asset based, we're talking from $85k to max $92.5K. It isn't $100k.
[quote=moneyadvisor]oh..........my bad.[/quote]
No sweat, even after the "LOSERS" and "make things up" talk
MS makes almost all their money on the investment banking side, I heard up to 90%. The retail side is a liability and a means for the partners to find the HNW clients. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the wirehouse firms take a Goldman approach, a more boutique style that caters to the wealthy and get rid of the retail liabilities.
[quote=rickmwd]
I thought I was correct two years ago....soon we will know
[/quote] I wouldn't bet against bogus lawsuits paying off these days, OTOH, if you can't fire someone for being over LOS 11 and doing under $225K (and only god knows how a loser like that even shows his face in the office, much less how he whines about getting canned) then you can't fire anyone.Mike
Spoken like a true company man! Someday you will find out how they feel about you and there clients.[quote=Greenbacks]Mike
Spoken like a true company man! Someday you will find out how they feel about you and there clients. [/quote] You can always be counted on, Greenbacks, to spout something about wirehouses and how they're unethical, how they abuse clients and FAs alike. Tell me, and no dodging the question please, do you have any first hand experience? Have you ever been at a wirehouse? I have to say, I suspect you haven't (I wouldn't even guess that you're a bitter washout) because your posts come off as a jealous competitor. To this issue specifically, are you telling me it was unethical or wrong in some way for MS to have laid off FAs who were >LOS 11 and doing under $225k?Mike, it’s important that you remember that indy’s have different standards. A <11 LOS @ $225k with $35MM in the wirehouse world is called a loser. In the nirvana like world of RIA’s and indy’s he’s called above average (according to published and verified industry reports. To include LPL published #'s).
my sale of ms at 60-61 looks a lot better now than 6 months ago. i am so glad i am out of there.
by the way 225k gross nets you 200k as an independent.... not that bad.[quote=aldo63]my sale of ms at 60-61 looks a lot better now than 6 months ago. i am so glad i am out of there.
by the way 225k gross nets you 200k as an independent.... not that bad. [/quote]Aldo you must have some really low expenses to net that....
[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=aldo63]my sale of ms at 60-61 looks a lot better now than 6 months ago. i am so glad i am out of there.
by the way 225k gross nets you 200k as an independent.... not that bad. [/quote]Aldo you must have some really low expenses to net that....
[/quote] Aldo's expenses are so low he can't ever afford to spend money on a caps key. Actually Aldo was shown the door (or was it that his buddy was, so he went with him) and went to a regional, so he's just guessing about indy expenses. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me that an firm in this biz, any firm, shouldn't be able to fire someone with performance so dismal that after 11 years in the biz he's still doing under $225k.....
[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Greenbacks]Mike
Spoken like a true company man! Someday you will find out how they feel about you and there clients. [/quote] You can always be counted on, Greenbacks, to spout something about wirehouses and how they're unethical, how they abuse clients and FAs alike. Tell me, and no dodging the question please, do you have any first hand experience? Have you ever been at a wirehouse? I have to say, I suspect you haven't (I wouldn't even guess that you're a bitter washout) because your posts come off as a jealous competitor. Mike, I have never worked at a wirehouse.But I can thank the screw ups at a couple of wirehouses for getting me started.Let me explain. I was working at a fairly large CPA firm in the midwest. As we did clients taxes we noticed how poor the advice was it did not meet our clients objectives. Also every year most of them would have a different rep managing there account. We also noticed that the clients with indies or RIA's seem to keep there reps and the advice seemed more unbiased no company products. To make a long story short I started studying for my CFP after passing it. I then started doing planning for our clients with the help of the other accountants. As a frm we realized CPA's could not do taxes and investments there plate is full.. The accountants really taught me financial planning. That is why I am a planner today. As far as my ax to grind with wire houses it is not with the reps but the firms they work for! Granted there are some fine reps at the wire houses, my beef is the way the firms treat employees and clients. As far as how they treat there employees AG EDWARDS is enough said. You can never trust them. For the life of me I do not understand why they choose to stay. I will do about 375,000 this year. At a wire house it would not be enough and every year they would want more. For me that is no way to live. I admit I do not like stress! I also believe this job should not be a competition. Most of the big producers I have met have big egos and no family life. I would not want there life. As an indy I pick my own hours ski when I want back pack, camp, jeep, climb 14ers and spend time with my family. Granted I live in a ski town in Colorado because I choose too. I cannot imagine having to worry about whether I would have a job next week because I missed my numbers for what ever reason. When I retire I do not want look at my wrist and see a Gold watch for all my efforts I want more. Sorry this took so long to get back to you but we have had eight feet of snow in seven days so I have been skiing. POWDER Have a great weekend it is still snowing here so I will be skiing again this weekend[quote=Greenbacks] Mike, I have never worked at a wirehouse.[/quote]
Ahhh, so you’ve never worked at one, you have no idea what the culture is, your claims that FAs are told what to buy and what to sell, all at the disadvantage to the client, and the claims that they don’t care about their clients, it’s all supposition.
[quote=Greenbacks]
Granted there are some fine reps at the wire houses, my beef is the way the firms treat employees and clients. [/quote]
As if you know anything about it.
[quote=Greenbacks] As far as how they treat there employees AG EDWARDS is enough said. You can never trust them. [/quote]
“Enough said”? They gave people money to keep the jobs they already have and you make that some major betrayal? What are you talking about? I don’t care where you hang your hat, you’d better be the master of your own career, but to throw that around is just plain silly.
[quote=Greenbacks] For the life of me I do not understand why they choose to stay.[/quote]
Give that the biggest producers in the industry choose to stay, perhaps they know thing s you don’t. More to the point, ever considered that your POV about life and ethics at wirehouses is nothing more than ill-informed nonsense? In fact, after I read your response I was more sure than every that yours is little more that the talk of a jealous competitor.
[quote=Greenbacks] I cannot imagine having to worry about whether I would have a job next week because I missed my numbers for what ever reason. [/quote]
That’s the basis for your assertion that a firm is wrong to bump out people who’ve been in the industry over 11 years and can’t clear $225 in production? That’s not quite “next week”, that’s eleven years of poor performance.
Look, I’m happy for you that you’re enjoying indy life, just try not to make a fool of yourself with assertions about the ethics and professionalism of other parts of the industry that you know nothing about.
[/quote=aldo63]mike
i have had this stupid battle with you before. You insisted I was fired for lack of production. You also badmouthed me over and over on this forum. [/quote]
That’s not how I recall it. As I remember I never had anything to say to you until you started a holy campaign of bad mouthing MS after the firings and I responded, defending getting rid of people who couldn’t clear $225K after 11 years of trying. A couple of guys from your old office emailed me and phoned me with details. Seems they weren’t sad to see you go. They said you were as consistently negative there as you are here.
Notice the firm hasn’t been sold (as you said it would be) and notice there hasn’t been another wave off lay-offs (as you said there would be). The stock price, which you mention below, took off after Gorman cleaned house, FA production has increased greatly and you can’t find any more of the old plaid polyester sport jackets DW was known for from back in the “stock and socks” days. It took a power washer and gallons of ammonia, but it was scrubbed clean, I couldn‘t be happier about it and moral is high.
[/quote=aldo63]
Do you want me to send this to your regional guy???? [/quote]
Ohhh, a threat. Knock yourself out, big boy….I’m sure I’m guilty of something, let me think….
[/quote=aldo63]here is the on wall street article that i sent you by private email showing my move. i will publish all your PM and info if you want me too. I have not because i am not an ass. [/quote]
Just ass enough to make the threat, eh? I don’t recall saying you were canned, I do recall saying the firings were a positive thing, and that I was happy the DW of old was finally dead. I also recall thinking it was strange that you knew you wouldn’t like the place after the make over and how strange it was that you’d defend long-LOS underperformance, but I don’t recall saying you were fired.
[/quote=aldo63] I am not afraid to say who I am because I have nothing to hide. I only wish I started here and bypassed my years at DWD/MS. Given your stock price, maybe we will buy you..hahahahahahah. [/quote]
You may have noticed the entire financial services industry has been hit. We’re off no more than anyone less, less than most. I have a feeling if there was a purchase between us, your side wouldn’t be doing it, and it wouldn’t require much out of the kitty to achieve. Having said that, I don’t mean to belittle your firm. I genuinely hope you’re happy there.
[/quote=aldo63]
I liked dean witter and am not afraid to say that and Dean Witter bought Morgan Stanley..not the other way around [/quote]
The way Phil ran the place, paying more for FAs to sell proprietary funds, refusing to integrate platforms, some people I suppose did like that. Given how DW stock declined after the merger until Mack came back and took hold of the place, how Phil managed to embarrass himself and the firm with continuously stupid comments (the one making light of a massive SEC fine the day after it was paid, the comment that he had to apologize for after the SEC slapped him again) I was happy to see him go, to see the place scrubbed clean of the DW hair oil and Old Spice, to see professionalism introduced and deadwood cut away.
[/quote=aldo63]
i am the first name... do you want me to expose you....again. i did go, i did leave when they fired my friend...you would not understand that would you?
[/quote]
“Expose you again”? Wow, the panties are really in a wad, aren’t they? I’m glad you’re happy at your new firm. Enjoy it there. I remember thinking when you started this whole tirade about how evil the lay-offs where “Who could defend keeping deadwood around and who could be sad that the single worst reputation wirehouse on the street is finally being upgraded by being integrated with one of the finest IBs in the world?”.
I still don’t have an answer to that. BTW, did you take my “can’t afford a caps key” above, referring to your post about what $225K nets an indy as me saying you were fired for performance? That wasn’t the intention of the remark, it was to, as Joe said, point out how low your overhead (not yours, obviously, you didn’t go indy) has to be to net that much and it was about your constant use of all lower case in your posts.
[quote=aldo63]mike
i have had this stupid battle with you before. You insisted I was fired for lack of production. You also badmouthed me over and over on this forum. [/quote]
That’s not how I recall it. As I remember I never had anything to say to you until you started a holy campaign of bad mouthing MS after the firings and I responded, defending getting rid of people who couldn’t clear $225K after 11 years of trying. A couple of guys from your old office emailed me and phoned me with details. Seems they weren’t sad to see you go. They said you were as consistently negative there as you are here. When we exchanged PMs about what they said, you said it wasn't you laid off, it was your friend, and you left that the same time. You then sent me the "on Wall Street" piece you mentioned below. I frankly don't know what to believe, and I'm not sure what you prove giving me the name and a number. Moreover, I don't know why I should care since the issue to me was never YOU to begin with, but your response here to the firings.
Notice the firm hasn’t been sold (as you said it would be) and notice there hasn’t been another wave off lay-offs (as you said there would be). The stock price, which you mention below, took off after Gorman cleaned house, FA production has increased greatly and you can’t find any more of the old plaid polyester sport jackets DW was known for from back in the “stock and socks” days. It took a power washer and gallons of ammonia, but it was scrubbed clean, I couldn‘t be happier about it and moral is high. You may have noticed some articles in the industry press saying the same thing.
[quote=aldo63]
Do you want me to send this to your regional guy???? [/quote]
Ohhh, a threat. Knock yourself out, big boy….I’m sure I’m guilty of something, let me think….PM me and I'll give you the phone number, all the regions (and managers) have changed since you left.
[quote=aldo63]here is the on wall street article that i sent you by private email showing my move. i will publish all your PM and info if you want me too. I have not because i am not an ass. [/quote]
Just ass enough to make the threat, eh? I don’t recall saying you were canned, I do recall saying the firings were a positive thing, and that I was happy the DW of old was finally dead. I also recall thinking it was strange that you knew you wouldn’t like the place after the make over and how strange it was that you’d defend long-LOS underperformance, but I don’t recall saying you were fired.
[quote=aldo63] I am not afraid to say who I am because I have nothing to hide. I only wish I started here and bypassed my years at DWD/MS. Given your stock price, maybe we will buy you..hahahahahahah. [/quote]
You may have noticed the entire financial services industry has been hit. We’re off no more than anyone less, less than most. I have a feeling if there was a purchase between us, your side wouldn’t be doing it, and it wouldn’t require much out of the kitty to achieve. Having said that, I don’t mean to belittle your firm. I genuinely hope you’re happy there.
[quote=aldo63]
I liked dean witter and am not afraid to say that and Dean Witter bought Morgan Stanley..not the other way around [/quote]
The way Phil ran the place, paying more for FAs to sell proprietary funds, refusing to integrate platforms, some people I suppose did like that, and that was DW "buying" MS. That's what prompted the "Blue Blood Mutiny" (great book, btw). Given how DW stock declined after the merger until Mack came back and took hold of the place, how Phil managed to embarrass himself and the firm with continuously stupid comments (the one making light of a massive SEC fine the day after it was paid, the comment that he had to apologize for after the SEC slapped him again) I was happy to see him go, to see the place scrubbed clean of the DW hair oil and Old Spice, to see professionalism introduced and deadwood cut away.
[quote=aldo63]
i am the first name... do you want me to expose you....again. i did go, i did leave when they fired my friend...you would not understand that would you?
[/quote]
“Expose you again”? Wow, the panties are really in a wad, aren’t they? I’m glad you’re happy at your new firm. Enjoy it there. I remember thinking when you started this whole tirade about how evil the lay-offs where “Who could defend keeping deadwood around and who could be sad that the single worst reputation wirehouse on the street is finally being upgraded by being integrated with one of the finest IBs in the world?”.
I still don’t have an answer to that. BTW, did you take my “can’t afford a caps key” above, referring to your post about what $225K nets an indy as me saying you were fired for performance? That wasn’t the intention of the remark, it was to, as Joe said, point out how low your overhead (not yours, obviously, you didn’t go indy) has to be to net that much and it was about your constant use of all lower case in your posts.
OK, Aldo & Mike, both of you go to time out for 20 minutes.
Seriously, guys, what’s the point of this battle? It’s not like either one of you are going to suddenly convince the other that they are mistaken about their OPINION.
Drop it. Agree to disagree. Move on.
Hop off the bus, Gus. Make a new plan, Stan. No need to be coy, Roy … just listen to me.