Jones #1 again?
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[quote=Bill Fakkland]Starka exposes himself as a Canuck with his "u" in savior...Zack exposes himself as a prejudiced prick for his comments about Christians...uwe is still the same idiot he always was. Last time I checked, Bush #2, Clinton, Reagan and Carter all were professing Christians. So is Warren Buffett and a few others . My intellect has nothing to do with my religious faith, and the above comments were the worst kind of bottom level thinking.[/quote]
A Canadian?????
Clearly Bill, you have no intellect.
I can’t believe you guys are letting Zacko get away with the comments he does. The simple fact of saying that a person of spiritual principles is more easily manipulated is absolutely insane. A better comparism would be one that may fans have towards their favorite football team, perhaps something like the Husker fans… I just don’t care for the spiritual angle being thrown in, I have never found anything done at the regionals that would make me feel that any religon or no religon is preferred…
Noggin,
Probably half the people here agree with me on that. That's my opinion. You share a different view and that's ok.
Bill brought up the bible...NOT ME. In our regional...there used to be a prayer breakfast and a prayer said at the final evening awards ceremony. That in itself is not proper business conduct. But that's not even my point.
Many..but NOT ALL people who are of religous faith are also "joiners". They have a strong belief in their faith as well as a need to be a part of a group who shares identical views.
It's much more than just being a "football fan". I am a huge football fan--but I am just as happy watching a game alone as I am with friends. "joiners" not only would want to watch the game--they would want to watch the game with other fans. They would also want to recruit others to love their team as they do. They also would give of their own free time to support the team in other ways when asked. And, no one dare disagree or voice dissention--even when they didn't like what they saw. Look at Amway for example....many people who are involved in Amway are "born again". Not all--but many. Amway specifically targets churches as well due to the joiner mentality that's prevalent.
Whether you like it or not--being at Jones and doing the things they expect of you is akin to being in a cult of sorts. And, anyone who would rather put money in the hat on Sunday to help make the Pastor's BMW payment before they fed their own family is in a cult and is being manipulated.
Zack, the only one trying to recruit people on this forum is you. It’s almost an obsession. You have issues.
Zacko, first time for a disagreement with you -- and a big one! I believe you're making some pretty prejudicial comments about Christians by coloring us (yes, I know you said not ALL of us) as essentially cultists and "those that need to be a part of a group that shares identical views". For one, why are you focusing being a part of a group w/ identical views as a faith-related thing? This applies to all sorts of people in all sorts of ways, not just because they have a strong religious faith. (And, by the way, you're wrong if you believe that even all Christians have "identical views" of Christianity.)
There are just as many others (liberals, conservatives, blacks, Greeks, Irish, rednecks, college alumni, etc., etc.) who may like to join clubs, socialize, etc. with others of their common backgrounds & beliefs where they do share a common bond. That's not to say they're cultists, joiners, don't have tolerance for others, and/or don't also participate & socialize with many others of different backgrounds or beliefs. It's just a normal part of life where there are times and circumstances where you choose to be with others sharing a common passion or belief.
I'm a Christian and go to a church that's with other Christians where we can share our faith and continue to learn and grow in it. For that part of my life, it would do me little good to worship in another environment. But, my church and my faith are not my exclusive circle of friends and business associates by any means. It doesn't make me a cultist or a "joiner". Also, within my church and probably all others, there are many differences represented even about Christianity. There are differences of opinion on the formality/informality of the service, the choice of music, the interpretation of the Bible, our involvement with missions, how church funds are to used, etc.. For the most part, all we do share are the basic tenants of Christianity -- and there are even some within the church that are still struggling with accepting those. The latter are not shunned, considered "damned to hell", or whatever. They're loved, served, and ministered to no different from the majority attending my church who have fully accepted Christ.
Zacko, you're with RJFS as an independent contractor. As you well know, independents are people who have chosen not to be employees of broker-dealers that puts them in a more restrictive & closed environment. They don't want or need to be part of a typical branch office structure. They want greater freedom & flexibility and don't want to be grouped in the herd. They've chosen to go their separate way, to own their own businesses, to operate under their own business names, etc.. You're a part of our industry that is made up of people who are anything but "joiners". For the most part they are "fiercely independent".
Yet, being at RJFS you also know that at all the RJFS National Conferences there is also a Prayer Breakfast (like your prior Regional Meetings w/ Jones). RJFS has chosen to provide a formal venue for those who wish to come together to share a meal with other Christians, to pray, to hear a devotional, and to sing Christian songs together with others of the same faith. That is these RJFS reps' choice to participate or not in the breakfast. But, that Prayer Breakfast is full to the rafters with "independents", certainly not joiners or cultists. Most of these Prayer Breakfast attendees would do anything for you or others at RJFS to help them with their businesses, to share ideas, etc. They don't limit their sharing to just other Christians. The faith your RJFS peers share is just a part of their lives. It doesn't make them any less or more of a "joiner" or "cultist" than you are.
Zacko, perhaps your prejudicial feelings have come from running across some closed-minded, intolerant Christians. But, that's no different from running across intolerant people of any belief, race, or football team loyalty. Some of your feelings may have also stemmed from your Jones "cult" experience, and realizing that you felt duped by them as it related to your business. Whatever it may be or not, all I suggest is that you be more careful about prejudicially coloring elements of life you may encounter based on whatever or whomever you may have encountered in the past. That makes you come across as closed-minded as you profess others are with whom you may find disagreement.
XEJ1984- Almost 3 years. I am studying for the CFP now.
Duke #1 - A much better post than I had written.
Zacko- I understand where you are coming from, I really do. I just didn't appreciate the tone of the diatribe. I thought the most recent post clarified your position. Thanks for all your input.
When you finish that CFP, you’re going to want to put it to use. In other words, time to leave Jones??
[quote=BigPayDay]What's your minimum account size you'll take on?[/quote]
No minimums. I treat other people the way that I would like to be treated. If they're serious about the process, then I'm serious about helping them. I'm embarassed by the snob appeal of the wirehouses. It represents a disservice to the professionalism of the industry.
[quote=Soothsayer]
[quote=BigPayDay]What's your minimum account size you'll take on?[/quote]
No minimums. I treat other people the way that I would like to be treated. If they're serious about the process, then I'm serious about helping them. I'm embarassed by the snob appeal of the wirehouses. It represents a disservice to the professionalism of the industry.
[/quote]
Please spare me. We could have a roaring debate about professionalism and the indies wouldn't have clean hands. Indies, for all the good things about them have massive compliance holes and in this day and age that's a major problem. The regulators have rightfully gone after the biggest fish first and attacked some long ignored business practices at wirehouses.
The next step will be cleaning house at all the places where there's no real "business restraint" office and the big hurdle to entering the business is the price of a shingle to hang out and a local business license.
[quote=Soothsayer]When you finish that CFP, you're going to want to put it to use. In other words, time to leave Jones??[/quote]
Shouldn’t you actually earn your CFP before you tell others, erroneously, where they can and can't "put it to use"? Come on, Sooth, you're better than that.
Stan, in all fairness I must say that I’ve found compliance to be stricter from a regulatory standpoint that when I worked at EDJ. It is, however, easier to stay compliant, due to the fact that through my indy channel, the rules are much more clearly codified and applied in a more even-handed manner. Further, when something new comes down the 'pike, there is an explantion with it, which does help.
Stan-
My point was that EDJ is not super keen on brokers earning their CFP. They prefer brokers get the lightweight AAMS. Jones knows many of the principles in the CFP training run counter to their own philosophy. As far as all the regulators and regulation goes, I don't need to be threatened or have the threat of regulation hanging over my head to do the right thing. My dad had many, many sayings that he repeated often as I was growing up. Two that are appropriate in this case are, "Do the right thing when no one is looking," and "When you don't tell a lie, then you don't have to remember what you said."
[quote=Soothsayer]
Stan-
My point was that EDJ is not super keen on brokers earning their CFP. They prefer brokers get the lightweight AAMS. Jones knows many of the principles in the CFP training run counter to their own philosophy. As far as all the regulators and regulation goes, I don't need to be threatened or have the threat of regulation hanging over my head to do the right thing. My dad had many, many sayings that he repeated often as I was growing up. Two that are appropriate in this case are, "Do the right thing when no one is looking," and "When you don't tell a lie, then you don't have to remember what you said."
[/quote]
Thanks for the insight on Jones' view of the CFP. I suppose others can chime in with their take on it.
As to honesty and running a clean business, I agree completely with your Dad. OTOH, that's not the issue.
The issue is that everyone in the business is human, and subject to human frailties. That applies to people at indies as well as any wirehouse or anything in between. You don’t have to be a fan of regulators or feel the need to be personally supervised to know there are plenty of bad apples among us.
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Wirehouses deserve ALMOST every bit of flack they’ve received recently, even though there are thousands of honest, ethical people in their ranks. It boiled down to a tough review by regulators of long accepted, but less than 100% ethical business practices.
When it comes down to the unethical acts of specific reps, or of some firm practices, the problem is that in some environments there isn’t a strong system of reviews. That’s what we just saw with RJ’s flat fee account problems. I’m certainly willing to see wirehouses take their knocks, what I’m not willing to do is cede some sort of moral high ground to indies. There are plenty of rocks there that have yet to be overturned.
Wait until the SEC and others get around to looking closely into the backgrounds and histories of reps that indy B/D have been willing to take on with little to no compliance supervision. The indy ranks aren’t just full of entrepreneurs, there are plenty of guys there who simply have U-5s that are too dirty to work in any other channel.
Stan--
You're right on the mark. Again. I think you've said in the forum before that you expect the absolute number of brokers to shrink some in the years ahead. Some of these regulatory issues will force the less than ethical brokers out when they have to look like they're at least trying to do the right thing. For the guys and gals who have always done the right thing, not much will change other than the recordkeeping.
Sooth- I am paying the cost for the CFP myself for the very reasons you mentioned. It is certainly not a substitute for hard work but it is valued at other firms more than at mine.