[quote=JCadieux]
Whoa!  Relax!  Go and re-read my earlier post!  I'm agreeing with you!  People are ignoring the rumors and waiting for results.  I don't see how you could expect anything better than that at this point in the game. [/quote]

You may have noticed some results are in. I wonder what you think there might be that people would be waiting on.

[quote=JCadieux]
There was a big rush last year.  That's calm now.  T[/quote]

I'd say it isn't calm at all, there's now a rush in this direction.

You might not engage in the scare-speak, but I get a call a week where some recruiter does just that.

[quote=haRDcorp]

Mike- please don’t insult me buy calling me a recruiter. I’ve worked too hard in this industry to be filed down to something that requires no licenses, no qualifications, and no real appreciation for sitting in the seat of a Financial Advisor.

[quote=haRDcorp]

Last time I checked- recruiters get an incentive commission (and an awefully large one at that) at placing advisors with whichever firm will take them at the right price- I do not.

[quote=mikebutler222]

I'd say it isn't calm at all, there's now a rush in this direction.

You might not engage in the scare-speak, but I get a call a week where some recruiter does just that.

As it relates to MS - I haven't tried pulling out of there for some time.  I would think that JC would agree that there are many within the firm that have a "wait and see" mentality, with very little motivation to make a change.  I, frankly, like what MS is doing and generally think that they are moving in a direction that will continue to put them in a more favorable position with Wall St.

Of course there will be FAs leaving the firm, as they do every firm.  I don't think there will be a mass exodus anytime soon, unless MS rocks the boat again with some earth-shattering news.

I think that the rumors that are spreading are all BS.  In this industry, rumors spread like wildfire and everyone is calloused.  Until anything is official, it's simply speculation, and largely meaningless to most.

haRDcorp - if you're not a recruiter (since that is apparently not "sexy" enough), what is it that you do, exactly (please feel free to PM me if you do not wish to disclose this in the open). 

From some of your posts, you seem to be affiliated within the industry in such a way that some would classify you as such.

I just figured it out- MikeButler222 is JAMES GORMAN. Hello, James- can I take back the 123 households I sent down to the ML FAC call center that you guys were going to take care of, but ended up burning. Hmmm- I think I lost some acquaintances from that experience and a few friends who I didn't think needed my teams help anymore- and ML stopped paying us on them anyway.

Here is my point- Mike, not picking on you BUT behaviors must change before "all is well" AND they must have a track record for changing. Morgan Stanley impacted a lot of peoples lives last year- I literally had a guy call me and break down crying because I didn't have a home for him but he just got canned, 6 months after resigning as branch manager. NOW- I get that most of these people were STUCK in the business, but many were good advisors.

James Gorman is a strategist- by training, by experience. He's a PROFITABILITY turnaround guy. If you think 11% profitability is GOOD in the wirehouse world you are at least 9% wrong- ML pushes 22% for instance, leading the pack by 2%. 11% is unacceptable- SO, it is projected MORE TIGHTENING will occur- and some of that by closing offices and relocating FA's which in many instances leads to termination. But you want facts- here:

Beaverton, OR- office closed on one week notice 6 weeks ago, FA's spread out to Portland and Lake Oswego.

Victorville, CA- office closed 4 weeks ago. Top FA gets to telecommute from home for 6 months, 3 others sent to Ontario, CA (2.5 hour drive each way, NICE!) By the way- the town has 330,000 people in it, but now NO MS office. I blame poor Branch Management for not being able to hire quality advisors to penetrate that suburb of L.A.

These are just two examples a whopping 4-6 weeks ago. Don't tell us you know things are HONKY DORY at MS, you have an opinion- I just gave you facts- but as I said, time will tell.

My best friend is at MS. I hope for his sake, the company doesn't get acquired-but time will tell and in the meantime, their FA's will continue to make a move before they do and many will affiliate with the independent channel.

Jeff- I was thinking of you as I was writing the piece on my general experience of recruiters. I sent you a PM days ago which gave you a compliment of how you conduct yourself and the advice you have given to some. I even went your website and researched your firm.

Because I sent you a complimentary PM, I thought for sure you would disregard my above comments- but just in case- JEFF, DISREGARD my comments above as they do not pertain to you BUT THEY DO 90% of the recruiters I've come in contact with. I usually get a name and some generic BS about the candidate and do all the work then they want the money.

To me, many recruiters need to do a better job at partnering where they help get the first call, and the first meeting, and share with their management contact how things are looking, what the candidate is thinking, etc. They also need to know what firm, what platform, and what type of affiliation would be the best for the candidate before contacting anyone.

That's my point- most don't IN MY EXPERIENCE. That's all. Other than that, I have no problem paying them- but they need to earn their money. Me paying $30-$40k for a $1M prospect is okay if they recruiter worked for it and partnered. Make sense?

[quote=haRDcorp]

Jeff- I was thinking of you as I was writing the piece on my general experience of recruiters. I sent you a PM days ago which gave you a compliment of how you conduct yourself and the advice you have given to some. I even went your website and researched your firm.

Because I sent you a complimentary PM, I thought for sure you would disregard my above comments- but just in case- JEFF, DISREGARD my comments above as they do not pertain to you BUT THEY DO 90% of the recruiters I've come in contact with. I usually get a name and some generic BS about the candidate and do all the work then they want the money.

To me, many recruiters need to do a better job at partnering where they help get the first call, and the first meeting, and share with their management contact how things are looking, what the candidate is thinking, etc. They also need to know what firm, what platform, and what type of affiliation would be the best for the candidate before contacting anyone.

That's my point- most don't IN MY EXPERIENCE. That's all. Other than that, I have no problem paying them- but they need to earn their money. Me paying $30-$40k for a $1M prospect is okay if they recruiter worked for it and partnered. Make sense?

[quote=haRDcorp] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I just figured it out- MikeButler222 is JAMES GORMAN. Hello, James- can I take back the 123 households I sent down to the ML FAC call center that you guys were going to take care of, but ended up burning. Hmmm- I think I lost some acquaintances from that experience and a few friends who I didn't think needed my teams help anymore- and ML stopped paying us on them anyway. [/quote]

Can someone translate that to English for me?

[quote=haRDcorp]Here is my <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />point- Mike, not picking on you BUT behaviors must change before "all is well" AND they must have a track record for changing. Morgan Stanley impacted a lot of peoples lives last year- I literally had a guy call me and break down crying because I didn't have a home for him but he just got canned, 6 months after resigning as branch manager. NOW- I get that most of these people were STUCK in the business, but many were good advisors. [/quote]

Let's see if I can understand this, you're banging on MS, and claiming there must still be a problem, and how things must change because a year ago they let go of people with production under $225k and LOS over 11.

I would tell you letting them go improved things.

[quote=haRDcorp]James Gorman is a strategist- by training, by experience. He's a PROFITABILITY turnaround guy. If you think 11% profitability is GOOD in the wirehouse world you are at least 9% wrong- ML pushes 22% for instance, leading the pack by 2%. [/quote]

The number I’ve seen was 12%, and that’s up from 2% a year ago third Qtr. Average broker production was up to 2nd in the industry at $675k, assets are up 5%, fee based business is up 14%.

 [quote=haRDcorp]

11% is unacceptable- SO, it is projected MORE TIGHTENING will occur- and some of that by closing offices and relocating FA's which in many instances leads to termination. [/quote]

If you say so, and you, being in the firm would know. It wouldn’t be increased via the recruiting of large producers and the carrot of higher payouts and bonuses…

[quote=haRDcorp]

But you want facts- here: [/quote]

Hey, if you say those are “facts”, fine. Some sort of supporting evidence would be good. That’s not to say, as Gorman himself said six months ago, there could be office relocations, but to claim that’s the strategy to edge up margins is just nuts.

[quote=haRDcorp]

My best friend is at MS. I hope for his sake, the company doesn't get acquired-but time will tell and in the meantime, their FA's will continue to make a move before they do and many will affiliate with the independent channel.

[/quote]

Yawn…. Feel free to take every case off you can handle. BTW, broker headcount increases, large producers are being brought in every week, assets are up…..

MikeButler- your insistence on having an answer for everything highlights your ignorance and the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The cost of the higher bonuses, etc, etc, and recruiting of higher producers did not come at NO cost- it came at 150% to 200% deals with 7-8 year lock ins.

 your incompetence is frustrating, and I'm done with the thread.

[quote=haRDcorp] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

MikeButler- your insistence on having an answer for everything highlights your ignorance and the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about. [/quote]

Hmmm, so I rely on the 3 Qtr numbers and what I see with my own eyes. Your version is based on what, again? A theory that a couple of office closings will bump margins up substantially?

 [quote=haRDcorp]

The cost of the higher bonuses, etc, etc, and recruiting of higher producers did not come at NO cost- it came at 150% to 200% deals with 7-8 year lock ins.[/quote]

Of course there’s a cost, but it’s a net gain. Otherwise the entire industry would do it.

[quote=haRDcorp]

 your incompetence is frustrating, and I'm done with the thread.

[/quote]

That’s fine because wading through your post was too tough to be fun. You keep on “stealing” those $225k LOS 10 guys and trying to scare whatever fifth quintilers you can with stories about office closes and massive cuts to come.  Those 60 guys of yours have got to be the cream of the crop….

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

haRDcorp - if you're not a recruiter (since that is apparently not "sexy" enough), what is it that you do, exactly (please feel free to PM me if you do not wish to disclose this in the open). 

From some of your posts, you seem to be affiliated within the industry in such a way that some would classify you as such.

[/quote]

From the hints he's dropped he sounds like an in-house recruiter for a 60 man indy B/D.

Mike you are a THE LIVING LEGEND!  Imagine how much more productive you could be if you spent time with clients and assets as you do in this banter. But why waste time with clients who can pay you money..YOU ENTERTAIN US!  You have become the industry equivlent of that little monkey with tin cup that works with the Organ Grinder.  You're the monkey, your firm is the Organ Grinder.  IT IS CLASSIC!  Please don't stop...EVER!  I enjoy reading and laughing at your wit and wisdom.  I'm sure it only takes a few minutes to read and respond as much as you do.

Keep up the graet work!

Oh by the way I see you have 1572 posts...GREAT.  Since we all understand numbers let's see:

It takes three minutes, if you're good, to create a post.  Another five minutes to read and respond.

That's 12576 minutes or 209 hours or 8.73 days going 24/7...Do you sleep? Eat? Make love to your wife?  God tell me your real name is Phil Purcell and you're retired.  Where do you find the time? 

Keep up the great work.

Here I sit drinking my sierra nevada and checking Mike butler on the nasdr.com. There is no MIke Butler at MS. Mike, I like your insight on MS. I just want to know where the name came from.(high school gym teacher?) You are funnier than the south park I am watching. please do not stop posting. I spent my last days at ms posting in the office break room funny material on purcell,alonzo, ect. I will mail them to you if you private message me.

My conclusion is, Yes, he is either james gorman or perhaps Lynrd skynrd.

ps

I am sure the grammer policehole will correct me.  

 incompetence is indeed entertaining, and the award goes to MikeButler222. Thanks for the laughs- you definately know how to turn a thread into garbage.

First... if you are not with MS or do not have legitimate material info to contribute, why bother responding to this post?

Second...  MikeButler, I think you are a mix of hardwork, intelligence, and MS Koolaid.  Many of your posts are pretty good, but you need to go back and read the earnings reports from the last 8 quarters.  FA headcount has gone down every time INCLUDING THE MOST RECENT REPORT.  Productivity is going up..... why?  Lack of mediocre FAs, Lack of support staff, Lack of middle management, and the introduction of the Bank Deposit program. (which all the major firms already had).

Third... I see what is going on and IT IS GETTING BETTER and that is a fact not a rumor.  It's the only thing that keeps me here.  I have been told that the compensation announcements are going to be very positive, but we will know for sure in about 3 weeks.

Mike Butler is a douche bag.

Mike, it is my understanding my 18,800 check for the o/t lawsuits is in the mail on 11/21.  I do not know if you are in CA. If you are not i will have a cocktail in your honor that night.  I am buying for about 20 people that night to celebrate the fact that theses whorehouses had to cough up some $$$.

[quote=fritz]Mike Butler is a douche bag.[/quote]

Fritz, does your mommy & daddy know your are playing on their computer?