Worst president ever.

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Shania Twain's picture
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WTF

Geithner has reservations on US bank limits-sources

Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:18pm EST

Obama proposes new limits on big U.S. banks
11:40am ESTWASHINGTON/NEW YORK, Jan 21 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama's newest Wall Street crackdown was met with hesitation from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who is concerned that politics could be sacrificing good economic policy, according to financial industry sources.

Regulatory News | Bonds

Geithner is concerned that the proposed limits on big banks' trading and size could impact U.S. firms' global competitiveness, the sources said, speaking anonymously because Geithner has not spoken publicly about his reservations.

He also has concerns that the limits do not necessarily get at the heart of the problems and excesses that fueled the recent financial meltdown, the sources said.

The Treasury did not respond to requests for comment.

Obama's proposals would prevent banks or financial institutions that own banks from investing in, owning or sponsoring a hedge fund or private equity fund.

Obama called for a new cap on the size of banks in relation to the overall financial sector that would take into account not only bank deposits, which are already capped, but also liabilities and other non-deposit funding sources. (Reporting by Karey Wutkowski in Washington and Steve Eder in New York; Editing by Dan Grebler

fubs's picture
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Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.

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fubs wrote:Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.
Yep.  And the facts about Bush have been distorted over and over.  Take the Iraq war for instance.  The fact that the market was up 35% the first year does not mean it was anything President Obama did.I don't think he's the worst President ever, but he hasn't done anything in twelve months.

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Agreed(though the other guy hadn't done anything in 2 years)

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Moraen wrote: fubs wrote:Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things. Yep.  And the facts about Bush have been distorted over and over.  Take the Iraq war for instance.  The fact that the market was up 35% the first year does not mean it was anything President Obama did.I don't think he's the worst President ever, but he hasn't done anything in twelve months.
 
I think that's it's funny that he hasn't really accomplished anything other than to piss off a growing number of people in this country.  His party (well, the Dems anyway) have had free reign in the House and Senate and they still can't get anything done.  And these are the people who want to run our health care system.  Pitiful.  How far away is Nov?

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Squash1 wrote:Agreed(though the other guy hadn't done anything in 2 years) I'm not sure I understand Squash.  Bush?  Invading Afghanistan doesn't count?

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Originally posted by fubsDude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
 
 
Right about now, I miss George Bush. d*** Cheney too. Straight forward, no BS, not afraid to defend this country and not going to apologize for it either. They understood the seriousness of the threat against us and they were resolute in fighting for us. Yeah, they made mistakes. Get over it. A lot of supposedly smart people were on board with them, including many in your current Congress who are going to “fix” healthcare.
 
How safe do you feel now that BO has apologized to everyone who will give him a platform to grovel? Christmas Day is your answer for that and there’s plenty more coming. Do you think these Arab Aholes are ready to negotiate and compromise now that Mr. “I’m sorry for the last 8 years” is in charge? These people will sooner slaughter you than tolerate you. Too bad we can’t cut there heads off on YouTube they way they like to do us.
 
Naive, woefully inexperienced, pathetically liberal. Socialism trumps all including the constitution. The fruits of your hard work for the greater good.  What else would you expect from an academic? You are in the wrong business if you support this guy. You should get a job with the local government or maybe Target, hunker down and ride this out. Capitalism is on the chopping block, no sense in pushing too hard. You’ll get your handout in the new order, just go along.
 
Massachusetts gets it, you need to wise up too. The market does what it does despite idiots in Washington, not because of them. Go read a book.
 
 
 
 
 

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Obama is the furthest thing from a leader that you could possibly be.  DO you think the Dems support him?  Publicly yes.  Privately?  Are you kidding?  Do you know how many Dems are thanking their holy God that Massachusetts voted in the GOP?  Otherwise, they were facing one of two evils: vote FOR healthcare and lose their next election because they know the public doesn't want it, or vote AGAINST it and piss off Raum Emanual, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi, and watch ANY support they would have received from the White House dry up.  They were FUKCED! And they all think Obama is a useless DINK!  They all thought he would be the next coming of Camelot, and he turned out to be more the Court Jester.
 
I am personally sick of him selling out the U.S. people at every chance he gets...."I'm SOOOO sorry for all we have done in the past.  Don't worry, no more b!tch slapping terrorist murderers, no more panties on the head, no more peeing on prisoners in the locker room."  WTF?  We did worse things to freshmen on the football team for chrisakes.

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amfUBS wrote:Originally posted by fubsDude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.
 
 
Right about now, I miss George Bush. d*** Cheney too. Straight forward, no BS, not afraid to defend this country and not going to apologize for it either. They understood the seriousness of the threat against us and they were resolute in fighting for us. Yeah, they made mistakes. Get over it. A lot of supposedly smart people were on board with them, including many in your current Congress who are going to “fix” healthcare.
 
How safe do you feel now that BO has apologized to everyone who will give him a platform to grovel? Christmas Day is your answer for that and there’s plenty more coming. Do you think these Arab Aholes are ready to negotiate and compromise now that Mr. “I’m sorry for the last 8 years” is in charge? These people will sooner slaughter you than tolerate you. Too bad we can’t cut there heads off on YouTube they way they like to do us.
 
Naive, woefully inexperienced, pathetically liberal. Socialism trumps all including the constitution. The fruits of your hard work for the greater good.  What else would you expect from an academic? You are in the wrong business if you support this guy. You should get a job with the local government or maybe Target, hunker down and ride this out. Capitalism is on the chopping block, no sense in pushing too hard. You’ll get your handout in the new order, just go along.
 
Massachusetts gets it, you need to wise up too. The market does what it does despite idiots in Washington, not because of them. Go read a book.
 
 
 
 
 Dude you sound ready to wet yourself.  Here read this: http://www.sodahead.com/world-news/five-things-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-terrorist/blog-232421/http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2794660.htmYou're one of those people led around by the nose by the media, aren't you?  Soak in all the "information" out there and think you're "in the know" ?  Go out, get some fresh air, and relax.  PS GWB and Cheney had plenty of chances to "defend their country" in Vietnam, but wussed out.  Its real easy to be a tough guy when someone else is doing the fighting.

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fubs wrote: Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.

Actually

the dow was up 18.1% in 2009 and was 9625 on Nov 4, 2008.

I'm guessing your in a FA training program or newly registered. (not far removed from Trig homework)

Rose colored glasses and naivete are typical in youth.

It's OK. Optimism is good.

Dude.

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amfUBS wrote:

>Naive, woefully inexperienced, pathetically liberal.

Socialism trumps all including the constitution.

The fruits of your hard work for the greater good.

  What else would you expect from an academic? You are in the wrong business if you support this guy.

You should get a job with the local government or maybe Target, hunker down and ride this out.

Capitalism is on the chopping block, no sense in pushing too hard.

You’ll get your handout in the new order, just go along.

{QUOTE}

amen brother.   well put

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Shania Twain wrote: fubs wrote: Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.

Actually

the dow was up 18.1% in 2009 and was 9625 on Nov 4, 2008.

I'm guessing your in a FA training program or newly registered. (not far removed from Trig homework)

Rose colored glasses and naivete are typical in youth.

It's OK. Optimism is good.

Dude.Hey butterscotch, I only deal in facts.  http://www.cnbc.com/id/34941041When we say "market" we're not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.  I'm guessing you're some middle aged dude in a bank program selling fixed annuities to grandmothers.  And actually- I'm retired.

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fubs wrote:
Shania Twain wrote:

When we say "market" we're not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500. 

spx was up 26.2% in 2009
1006 on nov 4 2008

Is "we" your training class?

dude.

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Shania Twain wrote: fubs wrote:
Shania Twain wrote:

When we say "market" we're not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.  I'm guessing you're some middle aged dude in a bank program selling fixed annuities to grandmothers. 

spx was up 26.2% in 2009
1006 on nov 4 2008

dude.Since the Close on President Obama's Inauguration Day on 1/20/2009:

  • The Dow 
    is up 35% (up 30% since day before inauguration)
  • The S&P
    is up 43% (35% since day before inauguration)

(source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/34941041)I'm just not sure I can be any clearer than this.  You can argue opinions all day. You cannot argue facts. The S&P 500 was up 35% in Barack Obama's first year.

Shania Twain's picture
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OK your right.

this is a stupid argument
pres. like number 7 in importance relative to equity performance.

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fubs wrote:Dude you sound ready to wet yourself.  Here read this: http://www.sodahead.com/world-news/five-things-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-terrorist/blog-232421/http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2794660.htmYou're one of those people led around by the nose by the media, aren't you?  Soak in all the "information" out there and think you're "in the know" ?  Go out, get some fresh air, and relax.  PS GWB and Cheney had plenty of chances to "defend their country" in Vietnam, but wussed out.  Its real easy to be a tough guy when someone else is doing the fighting.Fubs - Let me get this straight.  You talk about other people being led around by the nose by the media, yet post of all things a blog and a link to abc?You're also significantly less likely to be killed by a terrorist simply because of Bush and Cheney's policies.  You are also more likely to die by choking on a chicken bone.  Just remember though, if the guy on the plane during Christmas had succeeded, those odds would go up.  And every time someone got killed it would go up.Here is a little light reading for those of you who oppose the Iraq war:MYTH #1 - The war in Iraq was an invasion, not a liberation by the U.S.
REALITY: Under the rule of Saddam Hussein and the Arab Ba’ath
Socialist Party, human rights conditions were virtually non-existent.
According to numerous human rights organizations and government
agencies including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the U.S.
Department of State and the British Commission on Human Rights, the
people of Iraq lived in perpetual fear of unusually cruel and
humiliating torture practices. Numerous reports of arbitrary sadistic
physical torture, imprisonment, suppression of civil rights and women’s
rights were frequent and widespread. Victims of torture in Iraq were
subjected to hand piercing, eye gouging, whippings, electric
shock, amputation and perverse sexual abuse. In 2000, U.N. reports
surfaced that tongue amputation was being used as a new, general
practice against suspects who were accused of speaking out against the
Ba’ath regime. Other methods such as burning skin with blowtorches,
pulling back of fingernails, breaking of limbs, hanging people from
suspension from ceilings and even acid baths have also been widely
reported by numerous human rights organizations and government agency
investigations.
Among Saddam Hussein’s most abominable forms of torture was the
practice of state licensed rape against women. Evidence has proven that
the Ba’ath regime actually employed “soldiers whose job it (was) to
violate the honor of a woman.” Innocent women who were merely related
or married to a man accused of defying Saddam Hussein were often taken
to special prison cells where they were raped by soldiers as their
relatives or husbands were forced to watch. The practice of state
licensed rape was first confirmed by a former member of the Iraqi
Intelligence service named Khalid Al-Janbi who reported that the
Technical Operations Directorate of the Mukhabarat (intelligence
service) used rape and sexual assault as a systematic practice to
achieve political and interrogative purposes, especially to coerce
family members into cooperation or submission.  As a general policy,
prostitution was punished by public beheading, and women were often
executed arbitrarily upon accusation without even having a trial.
Despite the so-called constitutional rights women had, the female
population in Iraq often lived at the mercy of what was actually a
totalitarian, patriarchal society that ruled with a
discriminatory, iron hand. Mass rapes against women were committed by
Iraqi soldiers during the Al-Anfal campaign against the Kurds in
1988 and against Kuwaiti women when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The
phenomenon of mass sexual crimes committed against women by Iraqi
officials and soldiers is perhaps one of the most widespread and severe
in modern history.
Even Iraqi celebrities were not above maltreatment. In May 2001,
Saad Keis Naoman, an Iraqi soccer player who defected to Europe told
reporters that he and his teammates were tortured personally by Saddam
Hussein’s son, Uday Hussein for what he deemed were poor athletic
performances. Naoman said he was flogged repeatedly until he bled,
forcing him to sleep on his stomach in the cell in which he was jailed.
Naoman’s report affirmed an earlier account by another Iraqi
international soccer player, Sharar Haydar Mohamad Al-Hadithi, who said
in August 1999 that he and his teammates were also tortured by Uday for
not winning matches. In 2000, reports surfaced that three soccer
players who lost an October game in the Asian cup quarter finals were
detained and whipped repeatedly for three days. Uday Hussein was also
infamous for personally, arbitrarily picking women off the streets
of Iraq and sexually violating them. In 2003, Latif Yahia, an Iraqi who
said he was coerced into serving as Uday’s body double said Uday made
an implied threat to rape his sister if he did not cooperate. Yahia
also confirmed reports about the ‘Red Room’ tiny, physically
confining prison cells where inmates were unable to move, blinded with
a red light to psychologically render them into submission where they
were eventually subjected to physical torture. It is common knowledge
that Saddam Hussein’s sons personally took sadistic pleasure in
administering torture to many arbitrary victims.
Mass disappearances, genocide and retaliation against specific
ethnic and political groups were not uncommon either under Saddam
Hussein. Shi’a muslims who had Persian ancestry were expelled into Iran
during the 1970’s and 1980’s and during the 1988 Anfal campaign led
against the Kurds, an estimated 100,000 people ‘disappeared,’ but were
believed to have been murdered. In November 1999, Amnesty International
released a report titled, “Iraq: Victims of Systematic Repression,”
that asserted thousands of people had been arbitrarily arrested and
imprisoned by Saddam Hussein for merely being suspected of
participating in opposition activities or because they were related to
accused dissidents. In almost all cases, family members were never told
where their loved ones are taken, but were forced to pay for their
relatives’ execution afterward. In some cases, they were forced to
retrieve the mutilated corpse of their tortured and murdered relatives.
Since the liberation of Iraq in 2003, all of these practices came to
a halt with the fall of Saddam Hussein and the collapse of his Ba’ath
regime. Although there has been continued violence in Iraq because of
the continued war between coalition forces and the insurgency, the
violence is not systematic or institutional and it being fought by the
government as opposed to being condoned and practiced by it. Chapter
III, Articles 19-36 of the new Constitution of Iraq passed in October
2005 guarantee a wide range of ‘fundamental rights’ that ensure that
“citizens are equal under the law, without discrimination because of
sex, blood, language, social origin or religion.” It is specifically
unlawful for the government to practice any act that violates a
person’s dignity or personal integrity. Private communications are
protected, freedom of speech and association is guaranteed and public
office is open to all members of the population. Although some Ba’ath
party loyalists continue to denounce the liberation effort, the
overwhelming population of Iraq is relieved and thankful that Saddam
Hussein and his sons were removed from power and the Ba’ath regime was
outlawed.
MYTH #2 - The war has not helped the Iraqi people.
REALITY: Since the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the
United States, UNICEF and World Health Organization (WHO) have embarked
upon numerous humanitarian ventures to help the Iraqi people. According
to the US Agency for International Development (USAID), over 600
primary health care centers have been provided with equipment,
110 medical facilities have been renovated and 11,400 health care
workers have been trained. In 2005 alone, 98% of children between the
ages of 1-5 years old (3.62 million) were vaccinated against measles,
mumps and rubella and 97% of children (4.56 million) were vaccinated
against polio.  The U.S. has invested a total of more than $600 million
in health programs to help the Iraqi people since 2003. Nearly 3,000
schools have been rehabilitated and 20 million textbooks have been
issued to Iraqi school children. 84 primary and secondary schools are
being established and accelerated educational programs are being
implemented to help improve the literary rate among young boys and
girls.
USAID has also refurbished 10 sewage treatment plants and given 3.1
million Iraqis access to clean water that did not have it prior to the
liberation. USAID has also installed small water treatment
systems giving almost 500,000 villagers access to clean water. More
than 2.3 million Iraqis have had either restored or new water treatment
 provided to them. USAID has contributed more than $425 million in food
and cash to ensure the continued successful distribution of food to
Iraqis and has also helped the new Iraqi Ministry of Trade develop a
centralized database and ration card system to equally distribute
rations among 26 million Iraqis while continuing to implement food
security programs.
The U.S. has practically restored the electrical power that was
available to Iraq before Operation Iraqi Freedom from the 4.5 megawatts
(MW) available in April 2003 to 8.5 MW, repaired thermal units,
replaced and added turbines, rehabilitated the transmission network.
Throughout USAID’s 2.3 billion Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction
Program, an additional 1,292 MW were added to Iraq’s power grid,
and more than 240 Ministry of Electricity officials, plant managers and
engineers have all received training to safely operate Iraq’s power
plants. Since 2003, telephone subscriptions in Iraq have increased
almost four-fold from 1.2 million land lines to the use of 4.6 million
land and cell phone lines, and USAID has installed a $51.8 million
consolidated optic fiber network which allows Iraqi officials to
protect and control the electrical grid from a central location.
Environmental conditions have improved as well in Iraq since the
liberation effort started. USAID has helped restore the 8,000 square
miles of the Mesopotamian Marshlands destroyed by Saddam Hussein and
the Ba’athist regime during the  Shi’a insurrection of 1991. Hussein
drained the marshlands as a way to punish the Shi’a population in that
area after he decided they were disloyal to his regime. Draining the
marshland was a sure way of drying out the region which in turn led to
the collapse of the agrarian systems functioning there. After the
Ba’athist regime raided settlements, they killed tens of thousands,
destroyed livestock and burned houses. Hussein’s treatment of the
marshlands also led to the death of countless wildlife that suffered
terribly. As a result, more than 100,000 people were forced to
relocate. USAID convened an international team and created a Marshlands
Restoration Program by implementing a strategic re-flood of the area
while also establishing new farms to revitalize the livestock in the
region.
The United States has also helped create Volunteers for Economic
Growth Alliance (VEGA) a consortium of 14 non-governmental
organizations partnered with seven regional business centers to help
train Iraqi citizens with business skills. More than 300 grants have
helped support small and medium-sized business enterprises and the
newly implemented Vocational Educational Program has offered vocational
and technical training to more than 12,000 Iraqis, 34 percent of whom
are women. The outreach programs have helped place more than 7,000
people in short-term jobs. Although infrastructure was destroyed when
coalition forces liberated Iraq in 2003, much of that infrastructure
has been rebuilt and more infrastructure continues to be built while
numerous charitable, educational and humanitarian programs are being
implemented to assist the Iraq people while their country transitions
into a flourishing, democratic state.
MYTH #3- The doctrine of regime change and national liberation was developed by Neo-conservatives in recent history.
REALITY: Regime change and national liberation is an idea that stems
from the Truman Doctrine that developed after the creation of the
United Nations in 1945. That doctrine was implemented by Democratic
President Harry S. Truman during the Marshall Plan in the wake of World
War II when America democratized Europe in the post-Nazi era after the
fall of the Third Reich. In fact, much of the democratic transitioning
implemented by Paul Bremer, head of the Provisional Coalition Authority
to de-Ba’athify Iraq was based on the Allies de-Nazification plan
implemented in Europe after WWII. The U.S. also implemented programs to
phase out the effects of Imperialism from Japan and Fascism from Italy.
After WWII, the continued struggle for global democratization continued
when Truman sent troops to defend South Korea from communist invasion
as well as the attempts made by  Democratic Presidents Kennedy and
Johnson when they deployed troops to Vietnam for the same reason.
Democratic President Jimmy Carter instituted the Carter Doctrine in
1980 which made it the policy of the United States to take an
aggressive stance in defending its national interests in the Middle
East and gulf region. Presidents Reagan (Nicaragua, Panama), Bush (41)
(Iraq, Kuwait) and Clinton (Bosnia, Iraq) all took military action
against foreign countries either to challenge totalitarianism or
preserve human rights.
MYTH #4 - The policy to liberate Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power was developed by the Bush 43 administration.
REALITY: It became the official policy of the United States of
America under President Clinton in 1998 to support “regime change” in
Iraq and support the removal of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath regime
from power under the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-358, House
Resolution 4655). After finding that Saddam Hussein was in violation of
the cease fire conditions in U.N. Resolution 687, Congress and
President Clinton also recognized that Iraq had denied weapons
inspectors from the UN Special Commission on Iraq unfettered access to
search for weapons of mass destruction. President Clinton and the
Congress also recognized the many human rights violations that Saddam
Hussein and the Ba’ath regime committed and decreed that “It should be
the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime
headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the
emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.” The Act’s
stated purpose was “to establish a program to support a transition to
democracy in Iraq.”
In February 1999, President Clinton selected 7 organizations that
opposed Hussein to receive support from the Act including the Iraqi
National Congress, Iraqi National Accord, Supreme Council for Islamic
Revolution in Iraq, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, Movement for
Constitutional Monarchy, Islamic Movement of Iraqi Kurdistan and the
Kurdistan Democratic Party. The Act authorized the President to send
humanitarian assistance and military assistance to train an army, but
did not grant the President unilateral authority to send U.S. military
force (President Bush did not act unilaterally in 2003 during Operation
Iraqi Freedom since he had Congress’ approval to send troops). The Act
also established that Congress and the President should call upon the
U.N. to set up a war crimes tribunal to prosecute and punish Saddam
Hussein and his Ba’ath regime and prepare a program to help Iraq
transition to a democratic state after his removal.
In December 1998, only six weeks after the Act was passed, President
Clinton and the United Kingdom launched Operation Desert Fox, a four
day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets. Then US Secretary of State
Madeline Albright justified the military attack, saying the US and UK
were trying to “degrade” Hussein’s ability to use weapons of mass
destruction. Albright explained that “The weapons of mass
destruction are the threat of the future. I think the President
[Clinton] explained very clearly that this is the threat of the 21st
century.” The bombing campaign targeted Hussein’s elite Republican
Guard, one of his royal palaces, air defense system command centers and
weapons depots. Upon leaving office, President Clinton told incoming
President Bush that he considered Hussein one of the most dangerous
individuals in the world and warned that he would cause Bush “a world
of problems.”
MYTH #5 - President Bush violated international law by starting a new war in Iraq in 2003.
REALITY: President Bush did not start a new war in 2003. The
so-called 2003 Iraq War is actually a continuation of the original Gulf
War that was authorized in 1990 by the United Nations. In Resolution
678, the UN authorized a coalition of the willing to use force against
Iraq after it invaded Kuwait in 1990. In the wake of Operation Desert
Storm in 1992, the UN suspended (not ended) the Gulf War by calling a
cease fire in Resolution 687. Resolution 687 required Saddam Hussein to
comply with conditions that included complete disarmament of weapons of
mass destruction and allowing UN inspectors unlimited access to monitor
Iraq’s weapons programs. Under the Vienna Convention on the Law of
Treaties, a party may suspend  a multilateral treaty (the effect of
Resolution 687) if there has been a “material breach” of the terms of
that treaty.
In 2002, the U.N. passed Resolution 1441 which determined that Iraq
was not complying with the cease fire conditions and was in “material
breach” of the terms of Resolution 687.  Resolution 1441 gave Iraq “a
final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations” and
warned there would be “serious consequences” if it did not. During this
time, UN weapons inspectors still faced obstacles and resistance
from Iraqi officials to freely inspect for weapons of mass destruction,
placing  Saddam Hussein in material breach of Resolution 687. As a
result of  Iraq’s violation of Resolution 687,  the terms of  the cease
fire no longer had to be honored by the U.N. Thus, any member state
that felt threatened by this violation could act under two different
theories of international law:
THEORY 1: THE GULF WAR NEVER  ENDED AND SADDAM HUSSEIN’S MATERIAL
BREACH OF THE CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT REACTIVATED THE ORIGINAL WAR.
Once the cease fire prescribed in Resolution 687 came to an end, the
original war authorized under Resolution 678 became active again. Since
Resolution 1441 stated that nothing in the resolution was meant to
“constrain any member state from acting to defend itself against the
threat posed by Iraq,” it was once again legal for the United States
and United Kingdom to initiate military action against Iraq (a number
of other countries including Australia and Spain were also involved in
the coalition of the willing). In other words, the only thing that
suspended the war in U.N. Resolution 678 was the cease fire set out in
U.N. Resolution 687. Once Saddam Hussein was deemed to be in “material
breach” of Resolution 687, Resolution 678 was no longer suspended - nor
was the war.
The U.N. Resolution chronology is as follows:
1990, Resolution 678: Authorization for the use of force against Iraq.
1992, Resolution 687: Cease fire of military action as long as Saddam Hussein complies with U.N. conditions.
2002, Resolution 1441: U.N. finds Saddam Hussein in ”material
breach” of conditions in Resolution 687, thus reactivating Resolution
678, and authorizing the original use of force against Iraq.
THEORY 2: IRAQ PRESENTED AN IMMINENT THREAT TO OTHER MEMBER STATES UNDER ARTICLE 51 OF THE U.N. CHARTER.
Another theory of international law used by the U.S. that justified
the use of force against Iraq came under Article 51 of the U.N. Charter
that says that nothing in the U.N. Charter shall impair the
inherent right of individual or collective self defense. This theory
involves the ‘Caroline Doctrine’ which says a member state may use
force against another members state if that state faces an imminent
threat and other circumstances. These circumstances and elements are
outlined in detail in MYTH 8.
MYTH #6 - President Bush violated domestic law and the U.S. Constitution by sending troops to Iraq in 2003.
REALITY: In October 2002 Congress passed the Authorization for the
Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law
107-243) by a vote of 77-23 in the U.S. Senate. The
resolution authorized the President to use whatever military force was
necessary to “strictly enforce through the U.N. Security Council all
relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.” In 2003, the
constitutionality of the Iraq Resolution and the President’s right to
declare war was challenged in ruled in Doe v. Bush, and the U.S. Court
of Appeals for the 1st Circuit dismissed the case. Article I, Section 8
of the U.S. Constitution authorizes Congress to declare war and Article
II, Section 2 grants war powers to the President as commander and chief
of the armed forces. In 1863, the U.S. Supreme Court actually ruled in
the Prize cases that the President is actually “bound to resist force
by force.” In the instance of Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003 however,
Congress did authorize the President to use military force when they
passed the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq
Resolution of 2002.
MYTH #7 - President Bush lied about Saddam Hussein having the capability of building weapons of mass destruction.
REALITY: The actual reason as outlined in the Authorization for the
Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 was to  “strictly
enforce through the U.N. Security Council all relevant Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.” This decision came after the U.N. Security
Council unanimously passed Resolution 1441 which stated that Iraq was
in “material breach” of the cease fire conditions prescribed in
Resolution 687 and that there would be “serious consequences” if Iraq
did not comply immediately. Iraq’s breach of Resolution 687 not only
included the mandatory surrender of any weapons of mass destruction,
but also prohibited the construction of prohibited missiles and
attempted procurement of prohibited armaments while allowing U.N.
weapons inspectors unfettered access to search for prohibited weapons
and compensating Kuwait for the destruction and looting caused by Iraqi
troops during the invasion of 1990.
During his 1998 State of the Union Address, President Clinton told
the nation, “Together we must confront the new hazards of chemical and
biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized
criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better
part of this decade and much of his nation’s wealth, not on providing
for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and
biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations
weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job finding and
destroying more of Iraq’s arsenal than was destroyed during the entire
Gulf War. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their
mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and
Democrats when I say to Saddam Hussein, you cannot defy the will of the
world, and when I say to him, you have used weapons of mass destruction
before - we are determined to deny you the use to use them again.”
In February 1998, several months before Congress and President
Clinton passed the Iraq Liberation Act, President Clinton addressed the
Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff, and reported to them that
Saddam Hussein had 2,000 gallons of anthrax, 25 biological-filled Scud
warheads, 157 aerial bombs and 5,000 tons of botulinum, a nerve agent
causing paralysis. Clinton accused Hussein of impeding UN weapons
inspectors, saying:
“Over the past few months as [the weapons inspectors] have come
closer to rooting out Iraq’s remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has
undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing
debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which
have still have not been inspected off limits. . .  It is obvious that
there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation
since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce
weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed
stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that
Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small
force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its
production program and build many, many more weapons. . .  Now, let’s
imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or
we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more
opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction
and continue to press for the release of sanctions and continue to
ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that
the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude
that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of
devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you he’ll
use the arsenal.”
Prior to Resolution 1441 being passed on Nov. 8, 2002, President
Bush spoke before the U.N. General Assembly and specifically argued
that in addition to concerns about Iraq’s armaments, the U.N.
Commission on Human Rights had found “extremely grave” human rights
violations in 2001 and that Iraq had violated economic sanctions as
prescribed in U.N. Resolution 660. Concerns about Iraq illegally trying
to acquire and build weapons of mass destruction stem from the fact
that in 1990 Saddam Hussein stockpiled 550 tons of yellowcake uranium
at the Tuwaitha nuclear complex, 12 miles south of Baghdad.
In 2002, evidence surfaced that Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire
high-strength aluminum tubes which was also a violation of U.N.
conditions. There were disputed viewpoints within the U.S. government
as to what the tubes could be used for. The Department of Energy and
Bureau of Intelligence Research did not believe that the tubes could be
used to make enriched uranium for nuclear bombs, but the Bush
administration had serious concerns. Many of the allegations made
against the President for lying about Iraq stem from claims made by
former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson. Wilson was sent by the CIA to
Africa to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire
additional yellowcake uranium from Nigeria. After visiting Nigeria
however, Wilson concluded that Hussein was not trying to buy uranium.
Whether or not Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire more yellowcake
uranium did not change the fact coalition allies already had
intelligence that demonstrated he still possessed 550 tons of it before
the 1990 Gulf War started.
Based on the already acquired yellowcake uranium from 1990, the
unlawful attempt to procure aluminum tubes and the numerous violations
of U.N. cease fire conditions prescribed in Resolution 687, coupled
with the danger the U.S. faced in the wake of 9/11 from terrorist
organizations that could have been in contact with Iraqi leadership,
President Bush used the authorization granted to him by Congress and
U.N. Resolution 678 to send troops back to Iraq. President Bush 41,
President Clinton and President Bush 43 all had valid concerns based on
intelligence reports that suggested Saddam Hussein had the capability
of producing weapons of mass destruction. Hussein’s refusal to allow UN
weapons inspectors full access to search for weapons of mass
destruction coupled with his previous hostile and unpredictable
actions, such as using weapons of mass destruction against his own
people in Kurdistan during the genocidal al-Anfal campaign that killed
up to 100,000 innocent civilians, the 1990 invasion of Kuwait and his
suspected terrorist connections prompted both Democratic and Republican
leaders to believe he was capable of building a sophisticated weapons
program that could effectively be used against the United States or her
allies.
It was unknown to the general public throughout most of President
Bush’s presidency why Saddam Hussein obstructed UN weapons inspectors
from having full access to search for weapons of mass destruction. Some
analysts speculated the weapons are still there but have not been found
while others suggest they were transported into Syria. The prevailing
theory was that Hussein was trying to create the false impression he
had weapons of mass destruction to intimidate Iran which had proven to
be a dangerous enemy of Iraq’s during the 1980’s.
On July 5, 2008, the Associated Press reported that the 550 tons of
yellowcake uranium Saddam Hussein acquired before the Gulf War was
found and moved to energy processing plants in Ontario, Canada. Despite
the criticism the President endured, the Bush administration kept the
news of the yellowcake uranium secret until it was safely out of Iraq
to prevent any of it from being seized by the insurgency. Since the
Associated Press reported its confirmed discovery and transport
however, there has been virtually no response from the national or
international media to correct the historical record about the
capabilities that Saddam Hussein actually had to build a program that
was capable of producing weapons of mass destruction.
MYTH #8 - Since there were no weapons of mass destruction
found, they never existed and thus Iraq did not present an imminent
threat.

REALITY: As stated, Iraq already possessed 550 tons of yellowcake
uranium at the Tuwaitha nuclear complex as well as the 2,000 gallons of
anthrax, 25 biological-filled Scud warheads, 157 aerial bombs and 5,000
tons of botulinum that President Clinton briefed the Pentagon about in
February 1998 prior to passing the Iraq Liberation Act. The question of
whether or not Iraq presented an “imminent threat” is a theoretical one
based on the interpretation of what’s known as the “Caroline Doctrine”
under international case law stemming from Article 51 of the U.N.
Charter.
Under Article 51, the International Court of Justice has ruled that
a member state may use force or launch an attack on another member
state if the other state presents a (1) grave threat (2) the primary
purpose of using force is to avert that threat (3) the attack is the
last resort (4) the means of force are proportional (under case law
interpretation, this means a member state cannot use nuclear weapons
unless they are being threatened with nuclear weapons) and (5) there
must be a reasonable chance the use of force will succeed without
calamitous consequences.
The first element requiring a “grave threat” is the part that refers
to “imminence.” Did Iraq present a “grave threat?” Were they an
imminent danger? What the Bush Doctrine is arguing is that the
landscape of the Caroline Doctrine has changed in the age of terrorism.
The technological sophistication of weapons of mass destruction and the
willingness of rogue states (states that sponsor terrorism or illegally
acquire weapons of mass destruction) or pariah states (states that
engage in severe human rights abuse) to aid and arm terrorists with
such weapons places legitimate, sovereign member states that are
terrorist targets in a perpetual phase of facing imminent threat. (1)
Based on the representations made by UN weapons inspectors, President
Clinton and the intelligence obtained under President Bush 43 about
yellowcake uranium, it was clear Iraq was capable of building a program
to build weapons of mass destruction and therefore presented an
imminent threat to other member states.
The primary purpose as prescribed by Congress’ 2002 Authorization
for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution was to (2) avert
that threat and under U.N. Resolution 1441, the world had (3) reached
its last resort to compel Saddam Hussein to fully cooperate with
weapons inspectors (U.N. Resolution 1441). Nuclear weapons were not
used against Iraq, and therefore (4) the force was proportional. Saddam
Hussein’s Ba’ath regime was removed from power within six weeks (March
20-April 30).  At this stage, the U.S. had lost 130 troops, the U.K.
had lost 33 troops, coupled with the loss of 9,200 Iraqi soldiers and
7,299 civilians. Although these deaths are tragic, and there has been
chaos and continued fighting launched by numerous insurgency movements,
the consequences (5) have not fit the definition of “calamitous,” under
international law.  Compare the following: Since Operation Iraqi
Freedom was launched in 2003,  approximately 4,200 U.S. troops have
been killed and approximately 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians have lost their
lives. In the Korean War initiated by President Truman, nearly
40,000 U.S. troops were killed and an estimated 2,000,000 civilians
died. During the Vietnam War initiated by President Kennedy and
continued by President Johnson, 60,000 American troops were killed and
over 5,000,000 civilians died.
MYTH #9 - The War on Terror was only about al-Qaeda and Afghanistan because Saddam Hussein did not present a terrorist threat.
REALITY: Iraq has engaged in acts of terrorism against the United
States and also helped support and fund terrorists who have acted
against Israel. In April 1993, Saddam Hussein attempted to have to have
President Bush (41) assassinated while he was visiting Kuwait.
President Clinton retaliated in June by firing 24 cruise missiles at
the headquarters for the Iraqi intelligence service located in
Baghdad’s Al Mansur district and destroying it. The assassination
attempt only heightened concerns that Iraq was somehow tied to the
February 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Iraqi affairs expert Laurie
Mylorie and former CIA Director James Woolsey both professed their
belief that the Ramzi Yousef, the architect of the 1993 bombing was
tied to Iraqi intelligence service, but the connection was not proven
and the allegation remains a highly controversial one. Although there
is no evidence of an actual operational relationship between Saddam
Hussein and al-Qaeda, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
determined that members of Saddam Hussein’s Ba’athist regime met with
al-Qaeda operatives in Sudan in 1995  and the 9/11 Commission Report
makes mention of a non-aggression pact brokered between al-Qaeda and
Iraq by a Sudanese terrorist operative. Saddam Hussein has also helped
train and fund members of the Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine, a
terrorist organization that has received funding from Hezbollah, and is
responsible for more than 30 suicide bombings to date.
MYTH #10 - The United States invaded Iraq to steal her oil.
REALITY: Ever since the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom in
March 2003, there have been rumors and false accusations that President
Bush used U.S. military forces to imperialistically invade Iraq to
illegally seize her oil wells. Although this inference has become a
popular urban legend throughout the world, there has never been any
evidence or even any explanation how this fictitious scheme would work.
The reality of what is happening with Iraq’s oil is under debate right
now in the Iraqi Council of Representatives and the ultimate effect of
the plan they’re considering will not be much different than what it
was before.
Iraq’s oil was once under the control of the Iraq Petroleum Company
with had partnerships with foreign oil companies such as BP, Chevron,
Exxon, Mobil and Shell. However, in 1961 Iraq passed Public Law No. 80
which allowed Iraq to expropriate 95 percent of the Iraq Petroleum
Company’s contracts. In 1964, Iraq created the Iraq National Oil
Company and in 1967 signed the Iraq-Soviet Protocol in which the USSR
committed financial and technical aid to the nationalized company. In
1972, Iraq’s entire oil supply was nationalized and was placed under
direct control of President Saddam Hussein and the Arab Ba’ath
Socialist Party through the Iraq National Oil Company. Unlike National
Iranian Oil Company, the Iraq National Oil Company was prohibited from
entering into any ‘production sharing agreements’ (PSAs) with western,
private oil companies. Instead, they entered into an exclusive PSA with
the Soviet Union giving the communist regime exclusive trade option
over the second most plenary oil supply in the world (Saudi Arabia has
the first). Production Sharing Agreements are a special contract
entered into between a private corporate enterprise and a state
government in which the government grants the company the right to
extract natural resources at the company’s cost while splitting profits
that come from the harvesting and sales of that resource. PSA’s were
first used in Bolivia in the 1950’s and then Indonesia in the 1960’s.
In PSAs, the company is allowed to recover expenses from what is called
“cost oil” and is then typically allowed to keep a low percentage of
“profit oil” with the remaining amount going to the government.
During the 1990’s, Saddam Hussein gave PSA’s to both Russian
companies and Chinese enterprises with a profit percentage of less than
10 percent. In 2004, the Bush administration began working with the
Iraqi cabinet and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki to develop
what is now being termed the Draft Oil Law. The Draft Oil Law will set
up new PSA’s with foreign, private oil enterprises with 17 of Iraq’s 80
oil fields remaining under the control of the Iraq National Oil Company
and the remaining 63 being open to private development. Under the new
PSA, profit shares up to 12.5 percent will be available and contracts
will be awarded by local provinces and governates with veto power held
by the Iraqi national government. This will allow local areas to decide
which oil companies, if any, they want to allow to develop oil in their
province with the profit revenue being funneled through the country on
a per capita basis. This simply means that a similar type of
arrangement will be established as before, except that private oil
companies instead of (the now defunct) Soviet Union or enterprises
exclusively in China and Russia will be able to enter into PSAs.
However, most of the profit will still go to the Iraqi people.

fubs's picture
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1) You're confusing Iraq and Terrorism.  15 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia (you remember them- that's the country that GWB went to and kissed the leader) 0 of the terrorists came from Iraq.2) If you're relying on a politician to "keep you safe" you are severely mistaken.3) What would your reaction be if we had a terrorist attack here and the mastermind's family had done business with Obama's family?  You know exactly what your reaction and the rest of the right's would be.4) We've had less terrorist incidents or attacks under Obama and the market did much better under him during his first year compared to GWBs first year.  So why do you people hate him so much?

Moraen's picture
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fubs wrote:1) You're confusing Iraq and Terrorism.  15 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia (you remember them- that's the country that GWB went to and kissed the leader) 0 of the terrorists came from Iraq.  How many world leaders tried to assassinate an American President.  I know that if someone tried to kill Obama right now, I would be almost pissed off enough to re-enlist.  I am not confusing Iraq and terrorism.  There was evidence near Mandali Iraq of al Quaeda terrorist camps.  There were also over 2000 mortars containing mustard gas (WMD anybody).  These I saw with my own eyes.  Don't believe me?  What about Marcus Lutrell, the Navy SEAL who wrote Lone Survivor - after the initial invasion, he and his teams found not one, but three terrorist training camps that were set up like the al Qaeda ones in Afghanistan, in addition to finding the mobile unit that housed the Uranium.  You listen too much to Keith and Rachel.  Take it from someone who has been there.  2) If you're relying on a politician to "keep you safe" you are severely mistaken.  I rely on my own skills, but president's DO have quite an arsenal at their disposal and those that actually care, like Bush can make a difference.3) What would your reaction be if we had a terrorist attack here and the mastermind's family had done business with Obama's family?  You know exactly what your reaction and the rest of the right's would be.  Not on the right.  And don't care who he's done business with, who he went to church with (Jeremiah Wright does not mean that Obama is a racist).  4) We've had less terrorist incidents or attacks under Obama and the market did much better under him during his first year compared to GWBs first year.  So why do you people hate him so much?  I don't hate Obama, once again.  However, he has done absolutely nothing.  We had a terrorist attack on CIA people in Afghanistan (he was Turkish, if you recall), the Army Major, and the underwear bomber.  That's three.  How many happened during Bush's first year?  Not to mention, that the pain of 9/11 is still there.  Don't let your beliefs get in the way of the facts fubs.  Also, don't think you know someone just because they post something.If I didn't have a family, and someone tried to kill my president (obama, nixon, kennedy, bush 41, bush 43 or clinton or any of them) I would move heaven and earth to destroy them.  You don't fcuk with the United States.  And the President represents our country.  I may disagree with Obama's policies, but I think he has a good heart.  He is just afraid to do what is necessary because he likes being popular.

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

fubs wrote:

Shania Twain wrote: fubs wrote:
Shania Twain wrote:

When we say "market" we're not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.  I'm guessing you're some middle aged dude in a bank program selling fixed annuities to grandmothers. 

spx was up 26.2% in 2009
1006 on nov 4 2008

dude.Since the Close on President Obama's Inauguration Day on 1/20/2009:

  • The Dow 
    is up 35% (up 30% since day before inauguration)
  • The S&P
    is up 43% (35% since day before inauguration)

(source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/34941041)I'm just not sure I can be any clearer than this.  You can argue opinions all day. You cannot argue facts. The S&P 500 was up 35% in Barack Obama's first year. I became a Yankee fan in 1996, doesn't mean I deserve a World Series ring.

Amp2Indy2006's picture
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"I became a Yankee fan in 1996, doesn't mean I deserve a World Series ring."
 

Cowboy93's picture
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I think the thread title is not accurate (yet)--he's got a way to go to catch Jimmy Carter.  But he does appear to be well on the way!

Shania Twain's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-23

Cowboy93 wrote: I think the thread title is not accurate (yet)--he's got a way to go to catch Jimmy Carter.  But he does appear to be well on the way!

GOOD CALL.

Obama nation out of control now after mass.

amfUBS's picture
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Joined: 2009-11-04

You're one of those people led around by the nose by the media, aren't you?  Soak in all the "information" out there and think you're "in the know" ?  Go out, get some fresh air, and relax.  Yup. Believe everything they feed me. Hope and change. Here ya go....
 

The Incredible Deflation of Barack Obama
By Mortimer B. Zuckerman
Posted January 21, 2010

dblclick('xxlA');

< =text/ ="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/usn.mortimerzuckerman/mortimerzuckermanarticles;rsi=10001;rsi=10044;rsi=10045;sz=468x648;tile=3;pos=xxlA;ord=3571198?">

...Unfortunately, there is not much solace in international affairs either, where, again, expectations were so pumped up. America's image is better, no doubt, but uncertainty and procrastination prevail. One major international political leader recently put it well: "Not only does the leadership of this region not think that Obama is strong enough to confront his enemies; they aren't sure he is strong enough to support his friends." The administration seems "hopelessly naive," according to one Arab foreign minister, and unable to face the full truth about Islamic terrorism. The public frustration over the administration's mismanagement of the latest jihadist attempt to blow up a plane with all its innocent travelers (on Christmas Day) was captured in the New York Daily News headline "Mr. President, it's time to get a grip!"...

shredder's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-04

blah, blah, blah...Bush is bad, Bush is evil, Bush is the devil reincarnet.....The Dems can only play that song for so long.
In fact, I think the fat lady is signing. Witness VA, NJ and MA....just wait till Nov 2010.

go_huskies's picture
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it's time for taking names and kicking a$$...AMERICA RISING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0bh77k2Wdk&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_rev-rn-2r-3-HM

army13A's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-22

Why is this in "What's Up at Firms?" Worst president ever is ridiculous.  Shania obviously has a hard on for Obama.  No matter what the guy does, it's not going to be right in your eyes.  I'm not a big fan of his either but I try to look at facts and not ideology.  This bank tax thing is stupid, plain and simple.  Increasing troops in Afghanistan is a good thing.  When he did that, he pissed off the libs but the right keep saying he's soft? He made the call to the Navy Seal team to kill the Somali pirates as well.  He inherited a mess, plain and simple.  I think he thought things would just magically come together for him and he didn't realize how hard the job was actually going to be.  But after one year to say the worst president ever is ridiculous. 

Shania Twain's picture
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go_huskies wrote: it's time for taking names and kicking a$$...AMERICA RISING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0bh77k2Wdk&feature=rec-LGOUT-exp_rev-rn-2r-3-HM

that is cool

Shania Twain's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-23

army13A wrote: Why is this in "What's Up at Firms?" Worst president ever is ridiculous.  Shania obviously has a hard on for Obama.  No matter what the guy does, it's not going to be right in your eyes.  you're right [IMG]

oldpruguy's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-12

Hey, Fubs....one question for you....exactly what policy or initiative did BO put in place after taking office that you decided to give him credit for the rally in an oversold bear market....you sound foolish.

Shania Twain's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-23

dems running like rats off Titanic.   
Obama sounded just plain foolish yesterday.
Obama nation is a clusterfukc in disarray.

Now obama gonna fire the supreme court.......This dude is a short at the market......big time

Bye bye barackracy

Shania Twain's picture
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Joined: 2009-09-23

has not been a good month for dems

U..S. to appeal dismissal of Blackwater charges: Biden
BAGHDAD
Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:14pm EST
Related News
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12:22pm EST
U.S. to appeal dismissal of Blackwater charges: Biden
12:15pm EST
VP Biden flies into Iraq amid Baathist row
Fri, Jan 22 2010
Iraq instructs lawyers to take on Blackwater cases
Tue, Jan 19 2010
Iraq confiscates arms in private security crackdown
Sat, Jan 9 2010

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - The government will appeal a court decision to dismiss charges against Blackwater security guards accused of killing 14 Iraqi civilians in 2007, Vice President Joe Biden said on Saturday.

The U.S. federal court found last month that the defendants' constitutional rights had been violated, angering many Iraqis. Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's government has hired U.S. lawyers to prepare a law suit against Blackwater, a security contractor now called Xe Services.

With Iraqi President Jalal Talabani at his side at a Baghdad news conference, Biden expressed "personal regret" for the violence in a Baghdad traffic circle when Blackwater guards were accused of opening fire on innocent civilians.

The guards said they shot in self-defense in the incident, which occurred during some of the worst sectarian violence in Iraq.

"The United States is determined, determined to hold accountable anyone who commits crimes against the Iraqi people," Biden said.

"While we fully respect the independence and integrity of the U.S. judicial system, we were disappointed by the judge's decision to dismiss the indictment, which was based on the way in which some evidence had been acquired," Biden said.

The U.S. Justice Department would file the appeal next week, he said.

The incident came to symbolize for Iraqis what they saw as foreigners' disregard for their lives after private guards protecting U.S. personnel were given immunity from prosecution in Iraqi courts following the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

It also threw a critical light on the U.S. use of private security contractors in Iraq.

U.N. human rights experts have called on Iraq and the United States to ensure that the case is prosecuted, saying it underscores the need for credible oversight of private security companies working for governments in war zones.

(Reporting by Jim Loney; Writing by Michael Christie; e

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

not going to be a good year for them either

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