Why I quit Part VII

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STL Sucks's picture
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I will admit VI was weak, but here comes the heat. If you are easily offended, NO NOT READ.

When I looked at my peers, I was scared to death. Few were making huge bank. None sent there kids to elite colleges. I was always scared by who they asked me to recuit. Teachers, coaches, new college grads. People that would be so happy to make 80k a year and never look at the man behind the curtain. Take a serious look at the people in your region and ask yourself if you would let your family's future rest with this person. The biggest producers are still working like crazy. Ever notice the big producers always turn over. No one sustains at the top ten level? Not because the numbers are so high, because the work is so endless. Every business text in the would says hire people smarter than you are, EDJ seems to do the opposite. Hire people over there heads and guilt them into thinking they should work there ass off and you will be taken care of. No college degree, OK you can take care of people financial future. Got laid off your last job in a downsize, you can advise others.(makes me think of the Army and there treatment at Walter Reed latly.)

How many brokers have you seen trying to sell door to door in a winter storm? A call list from vacation or a hospital room? It is a sales job, not a money management profession position. Doctor, my erection drug is better than his erection drug! Did you enjoy the Slurpee I bought you! Please buy from me! I would rather have one 500k producer with class than 5 100k ones. EDJ seems to think otherwise. It was interesting how many Jones brokers did not carry business cards with there family because they did not want to come off as a pushy salesman. Not really proud of what they do.

Broker24's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-12

WHAT are you talking about?? Do you realize how many goober 100K
gross independants I have run into? How many wirehouse brokers don't
make it after 6 months? How many advisors doing sleazy sales dinners
with over-priced EIA's for 75 year olds?

You know, sometimes people gotta look in the mirror. It's not always
about the firm. You make your career, your reputation, your living, based
on YOU, not the FIRM. If you don't, you'll fail. Period.   There are good
and bad brokers in EVERY channel.   It has NOTHING to do with the firm.
NOTHING. Do you think every broker that doesn't work for Jones got an
MBA from Harvard???

And by the way, the big producers in my region work 3-4 days a week,
until about 4:00.

Yes, EDJ does some goofy things. But do you have a better idea of how to
get started from scratch? I am not defending Jones here. I could care
less what you think. I just think you are a major loser, and will be selling
lawnmowers at Sears in 2 years.

Get off your soapbox, Eyore, and do some real business. You are one sad
sack.

Sorry to everyone else for the rant.

CIBforeveryone's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-12

Broker24 wrote:You make your career, your reputation, your living, based on YOU, not the FIRM. If you don't, you'll fail. Period.   There are good and bad brokers in EVERY channel.   It has NOTHING to do with the firm. NOTHING.
Try telling this to your Regional Leader and see how he/she reacts.

STL Sucks's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-10

Yes! Sears mower salesman. Now your thinking the Jones way. I heard Kmart is doing some layoffs. Should we do a recuiting dinner and let them know about the Jones opportunity? The core problem is you and Jones associate big commissions with success. Not once was there an award, discussion or inkling of superior portfolio managment or risk management. If interest rates are going up what should we do? Buy more ICA. What about Dem coming into power? Buy more ICA. My company stock has gone up dramtically, what should we do. Of course you should sell it and you should buy more ICA. (sub in CIB for ICA at will)

footsoldier's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-30

Wow, I have to admit I am intrigued by your preamble, but please, STL if you are done with Jones go somewhere else. I and many others have and are pissed we didn't do it earlier.
If you are too new to start on your own, partner with someone more experienced. If you are capable on your own, then start interviewing firms.
Enough already.

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

STL Sucks wrote:Yes! Sears mower salesman. Now your thinking the Jones way. I heard Kmart is doing some layoffs. Should we do a recuiting dinner and let them know about the Jones opportunity? The core problem is you and Jones associate big commissions with success. Not once was there an award, discussion or inkling of superior portfolio managment or risk management. If interest rates are going up what should we do? Buy more ICA. What about Dem coming into power? Buy more ICA. My company stock has gone up dramtically, what should we do. Of course you should sell it and you should buy more ICA. (sub in CIB for ICA at will)
I echo Broker24.... Why equate everything that is wrong in your world with your broker dealer?? The reason is that you are a moron. Grow up and understand ultimately you and you alone are responsible for your own success....  The last thing that I will ever do is equate commissions with success. I disagree with Broker24 on where you will utimately land.. I say that you will move back to your parent's house you little small minded child.

STL Sucks's picture
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How many Ed Jones reps are at the Masters right now?

Broker24's picture
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STL Sucks wrote:How many Ed Jones reps are at the Masters right now?
Actually, a few of them mentioned they saw you running sandwiches to Tiger.

Broker24's picture
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STL Sucks wrote:Yes! Sears mower salesman. Now your thinking the Jones way. I heard Kmart is doing some layoffs. Should we do a recuiting dinner and let them know about the Jones opportunity? The core problem is you and Jones associate big commissions with success. Not once was there an award, discussion or inkling of superior portfolio managment or risk management. If interest rates are going up what should we do? Buy more ICA. What about Dem coming into power? Buy more ICA. My company stock has gone up dramtically, what should we do. Of course you should sell it and you should buy more ICA. (sub in CIB for ICA at will)
You are completely and utterly lost. I actually mean this in all sincerety - if this is really your attitude, you will probably be in for a real rude awakening wherever you decide to go.  You can be successful anywhere, at any firm, in any industry - even MORE SO in this industry, since you have so much latitude to do your own thing.  If you think that it is all roads paved in gold everywhere else, and that it will be SO easy, and SO much better, you are probably going to be in a lot of trouble.  I may not have decades of experience in this industry yet, but I have witnessed many kids like you over the years (I am just assuming you are young based on your attitude) in my previous career.  Always complaining, always wanting something for nothing, looking for the easy road, it's sombody elses fault, can't see the forest for the trees, and you always seem to get the raw deal.  If you think you are going to leave and go indy and be half as successful as some of the other indy brokers on this board, think again.  Chances are they got there through hard work; they didn't bitch and moan and spend all day online wimpering anonymously about the tragedy that is their life at Jones or wherever they used to be.
By the way, if you are so preoccupied with selling ICA, why don't you just sell something else?  Find something that motivates you and go with it.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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STL Sucks wrote:How many Ed Jones reps are at the Masters right now?
Do you mean playing or watching? Probably about the same amount as LPL, RJ, Morgan, Merrill, AGE, et al.  There were a bunch of Jones brokers at the Final Four tourney this year (diversification trip.)  I'll bet there will be some at the Indy 500.  There were a bunch at the World Series in STL last year too.  I'm still trying to figure out what Jones broker's attendance at major sporting events has anything to do with your like or dislike of Jones as a whole?  Other than your rationalization and justification in your own mind of leaving.
I do look at the vets in my area.  My RL is a workaholic, but his 4 month rolling is at about $50K on about $80-85 mil AUM.  Just over 10 years out.  Yeah, I'd hate to be him. 
Another has been in the biz 27 years.  Paid for his kid to go to a top school in the country.  Bought him a nice car when he graduated.  Works hard but plays harder.  4 month rolling - $40K.  AUM of $100 mil+.  Not really interested in brining in a lot of new assets.  Sucks to be him. 
Third has been here for 20 years.  Works from 8-3 everyday and goes home.  Sells a lot of American Funds and tax free bonds.  Clients love him.  Very simple man making a great living keeping things simple for his clients.  His 4 month rolling is at $40K too.  AUM also over $100 mil.  How can he live with himself? 
We have 27 FAs in our region out more than 5 years.  All but 4 are on track to hit $250K this year based on their 4 month rolling.  Half of those should hit between $300K and $350K.  I'm sure all of them get offers constantly from other firms.  They found something they like at Jones and decided to stay.  I'm convinced that they would be successful anywhere they decided to build their businesses.
You know why the big producers always turn over?  Because it is a cyclical business.  Life happens, get's in the way of business.  Markets change.  Brokers have to have a little down time.  But, I'll bet if you looked at a list of the Managing Partners Conference attendees every year you'd see a lot of the same people.  Tiger may not win the Masters every year, but he'll be in the hunt.
I think this excuse for you leaving Jones is as lame as the other ones.  That you would even consider basing your success on someone else's success or failure is just sad.  Good luck at Sears.   
 
     
 

Bamzor's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-14

Good comments Spiff.
" But, I'll bet if you looked at a list of the Managing Partners Conference attendees every year you'd see a lot of the same people."
The 3 I knew that when to MPC were all GP's. Which I believe is a good reason to stay on board with Jones.

vbrainy's picture
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Joined: 2006-07-26

I like reading this.  Sorry, but firms like EDJ and Ameriprise are just not honest with people.
Besides, I think it makes him feel better.

STL Sucks's picture
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Me doth think thee protest too much! Or a better example, for the STL clones: Think of me like Bob Gibson, throwing the heat high and tight. I own this plate. I dare you to charge the mound. A better question might be of your 27 reps out five years or more minus the five "others", how many have spouses that work? BTW if you are out 27 years you SHOULD have 40k+ rolling four! Remember I was a partner. I have skills, and now I have the bills!

uwec86's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Space,
You're a smart guy and I have a hard time understanding why anyone producing over $250k would stay...using just math.  Forget all the other stuff...everything being equal, why not make 50% more (that number could be much higher) running your business exactly the same way?  Why not have an asset that if you retire or die, can be sold at some value rather than give it back to the firm.
Notice that I didn't bash Jones for one second but I'd like to hear what any BD brings to the table to justify their 60%.  BD's are providing a service to the broker some are more expensive than others.  Jones brokers are good folks that run their businesses in an ethical manner...why not be a real owner and give yourself a 50% raise?
I'd love to hear your reasons for staying.  I was there and I just don't get it...the math alone suggests after $250k in production, it's time to move on.  Spiff, could you share your reasons for staying?

troll's picture
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uwec86 wrote:Space,
You're a smart guy and I have a hard time understanding why anyone producing over $250k would stay...using just math.  Forget all the other stuff...everything being equal, why not make 50% more (that number could be much higher) running your business exactly the same way?  Why not have an asset that if you retire or die, can be sold at some value rather than give it back to the firm.
Notice that I didn't bash Jones for one second but I'd like to hear what any BD brings to the table to justify their 60%.  BD's are providing a service to the broker some are more expensive than others.  Jones brokers are good folks that run their businesses in an ethical manner...why not be a real owner and give yourself a 50% raise?
I'd love to hear your reasons for staying.  I was there and I just don't get it...the math alone suggests after $250k in production, it's time to move on.  Spiff, could you share your reasons for staying?Uwec you have a different perspective than Spiff because (I presume) you have been an advisor for quite some time.  Spiff was in home office for a while and while he seems to be doing well has not been an advisor for too many years.  (No offense Spiff.)There is a point where someone is ready to take the leap, and sees the numbers and the other work involved in a new light.  There are many people who are never ready.  It doesn't make them wrong, just that they are less willing to take the risks involved.  Perhaps they have a more acute perception of them than we do.I get what you're saying though.  I had lunch a while ago with a friend from their old office....one who produces about 50% more than I.  Listening to them with the same old laundry list of complaints and gossip, I wondered why they continued to put up with it.  They talked about how maybe they could take a check and move to another frying pan, and I wondered "What are you thinking?  Do you really expect it to be any different?"

uwec86's picture
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Joedabrkr,
Every firm has its issues but it is much easier to put up with them if I pay 10 - 15% for that service vs. 60%...it changes the mindset.  When you get down to it, the FA builds and maintains the business not the BD. 
To me, its a no brainer...you work extremely hard for 30 - 60 days to move your book and then you go back to doing business the same way you always did but get paid a lot more without charging the client a penny more and you have an asset you can sell.  I just don't see the big risk in moving.  If you can make a living at 40% payout, you sure can at 60 - 70% (after expenses)!  Jones is a great place to start but I'd still love to hear why people stay after they get to $250k...I just don't get it.  Some please educate me.

footsoldier's picture
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I left last fall, and my net (after all expenses)is significantly higher than it was at Jones already. They taught me well and now I can say just like uwec did, there is a much better life outside. I would recommend it to anyone at Jones who met their targets starting from scratch.
If you can hunt at Jones, you can do it anywhere with any firm. What Jones does very well, is teach you to become independent.
 

troll's picture
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uwec86 wrote:Joedabrkr,
Every firm has its issues but it is much easier to put up with them if I pay 10 - 15% for that service vs. 60%...it changes the mindset.  When you get down to it, the FA builds and maintains the business not the BD. 
To me, its a no brainer...you work extremely hard for 30 - 60 days to move your book and then you go back to doing business the same way you always did but get paid a lot more without charging the client a penny more and you have an asset you can sell.  I just don't see the big risk in moving.  If you can make a living at 40% payout, you sure can at 60 - 70% (after expenses)!  Jones is a great place to start but I'd still love to hear why people stay after they get to $250k...I just don't get it.  Some please educate me.Believe me I hear what you're saying.  I'm happily indy and the end of next month is my 2 year anniversary.It's like they don't believe it could be that good....

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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STL Sucks wrote:Me doth think thee protest too much! Or a better example, for the STL clones: Think of me like Bob Gibson, throwing the heat high and tight. I own this plate. I dare you to charge the mound. A better question might be of your 27 reps out five years or more minus the five "others", how many have spouses that work? BTW if you are out 27 years you SHOULD have 40k+ rolling four! Remember I was a partner. I have skills, and now I have the bills!
OK,  you lost me.  What does having a spouse that works have to do with this conversation?  I've not been in the field for more than five years yet and my spouse doesn't work.  But that's a personal choice because we believe our kids are more important than money and I'd rather have my wife at home with my kids than making $30K a year as a teacher. 
If you weren't aware, some women or men like to work whether they have to or not.  In my region some are teachers, some run businesses, one is even an evil GP.  That has nothing to do with their spouse's net, but more with their own personal satisfaction.  And maybe a decision about kids or family that supercedes any monetary gain.   
Actually when I look at the list it's probably a 50/50 split.  And of the 27 I don't have any idea of how many of their spouses really need to work vs want to work.  This arguement is as lame as the beginning of this thread. 
Hey, STL...do you hear that?  That's the sound of the crack of my bat.  You better look over your shoulder quick because the next sound you hear is going to be the fans going crazy cause the ball just left the park.      
 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joe - you're right, I've not been in the field a long time.  No offense taken. 
Uwec - I respect your desire to be independant.  Jones does make a good training ground for people to go independant.  But not everyone wants to.  Maybe it's not worth the extra headaches for them.   
There are some benefits to belonging to a big firm whether it be Jones, Amex, Morgan, Merrill, or any of the others.  Advertising, recognition, market share, borrowed credibility.  Not to mention everything that goes on in the back office.  I'll bet some people stay at Jones simply for the diversification trips (regardless of how much you pay in taxes).  How about company stock or employer matching on a 401K?  How about group health care benefits?  How about just having a buddy from the same firm around the corner or in the office next door? 
Money is great.  I like it a lot.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't come to the field partly for the money.  I think when you ONLY focus on the money and not everything else in life you start to get jaded.  I don't want to have to worry about learning new compliance laws or HR issues.  I don't want to have to go out buy a new computer every so often and then hassle with making sure all the files transfer.  I don't want to have to haggle with the landlord over my rent. 
Yes, there is life outside of the wirehouses/regionals.  But don't make it sound like we have it all that bad.       

bspears's picture
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But you DO have it that bad spiffy!!!

Gone Indy's picture
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Spiff,
Company matching on 401K?  Group health benefits?  Has something changed at Jones since I left 2.5 years ago?

troll's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:STL Sucks wrote:Me doth think thee protest too much! Or a better example, for the STL clones: Think of me like Bob Gibson, throwing the heat high and tight. I own this plate. I dare you to charge the mound. A better question might be of your 27 reps out five years or more minus the five "others", how many have spouses that work? BTW if you are out 27 years you SHOULD have 40k+ rolling four! Remember I was a partner. I have skills, and now I have the bills!
OK,  you lost me.  What does having a spouse that works have to do with this conversation?  I've not been in the field for more than five years yet and my spouse doesn't work.  But that's a personal choice because we believe our kids are more important than money and I'd rather have my wife at home with my kids than making $30K a year as a teacher. 
If you weren't aware, some women or men like to work whether they have to or not.  In my region some are teachers, some run businesses, one is even an evil GP.  That has nothing to do with their spouse's net, but more with their own personal satisfaction.  And maybe a decision about kids or family that supercedes any monetary gain.   
Actually when I look at the list it's probably a 50/50 split.  And of the 27 I don't have any idea of how many of their spouses really need to work vs want to work.  This arguement is as lame as the beginning of this thread. 
Hey, STL...do you hear that?  That's the sound of the crack of my bat.  You better look over your shoulder quick because the next sound you hear is going to be the fans going crazy cause the ball just left the park.      
 Actually my wife works, and I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China at all.  I think STL is making a "mine is bigger than yours" sort of argument here.  You know "I'm such a big hitter and making so much bank that my pretty trophy wife doesn't have to go to work....."To be fair, at this stage in my indy life where things are growing quickly and I am on the verge of making a few significant investments in my business, if the wife wasn't working we might be living in a smaller home, but we wouldn't be worrying about the wolf at the door.The irony here is that I could easily be the one who decided to stay at home with the kids and my life would be less stressful and I could play more golf, but I want to work and continue to build my business.  This is in no small part because I enjoy it and yes, like others, I enjoy having money.  Too, frankly, with some of the things I've seen in life I place little faith in job security in corporate America.  My wife's employer is a publicly traded corporation, and it's always on my mind that a new CEO could come in or the winds could change in some other way, and her career prospects could change for the negative through no fault of her own.  So I prefer the security of controlling my destiny and building something of value for the future.It's not that I claim that you boys at the kool aid capital have it so bad(forgive the reference I couldn't resist).  It's a question of values and priorities.  As I started to learn a little about compliance rules(and I'd already learned a lot just being in the business), dealing with HR issues and landlords, I found that it wasn't as big a hassle as I thought.  I further decided that there were a lot of overpaid loafers at some of my prior firms, and that I was paying my b/d a LOT to deal with some of those above-cited issues.  Maybe it just sounds arrogant, but I decided I could do a lot of that stuff better on my own, or outsource it to a vendor or employee(who I could fire if they were not getting the job done, unlike working for an employee-format b/d).  The freedom, lack of politics, and added payouts are absolutely worth the extra work.This much I will say in closing, perhaps in an attempt to clarify uwec's comments:  When I look back to my 'old life', or talk to some of my former colleagues, now I am soooo much happier, am so much more optimistic about my future, and enjoying my work so much more again(like when I was a rookie) that I don't understand why more people don't take the leap.  I don't get why they make the jump from wire to wire and take a big check in return for another 5-7 years of indentured servitude.  (Note, too, that I offer that argument without even getting into the increased income or tax benefits.)  I'm not saying that I look down on them, I just don't "get it".  That's all.

uwec86's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:
There are some benefits to belonging to a big firm whether it be Jones, Amex, Morgan, Merrill, or any of the others.  Advertising, recognition, market share, borrowed credibility.  Valid point but YOU are the one helping the clients and if you sell yourself and not the firm, your career will benefit for it.  In the case of RJ, I think we have many of those things...LPL requires it's FA's to use a name of their own.  Not to mention everything that goes on in the back office.  I have all the back office stuff I had a Jones but I only pay 10% instead of 60%.  EJ's back office was a big reason I left, RJ makes mistakes too but since I get them at a discount, it doesn't drive me as crazy.  I'll bet some people stay at Jones simply for the diversification trips (regardless of how much you pay in taxes).  I've heard that too, you over pay for those and can afford to buy your own and avoid the meetings.  How about company stock or employer matching on a 401K?  YOU pay for every one of those with your 60% and have no control over the "generosity" of your EMPLOYER.  I buy company stock in my corp. every single payroll period (twice a month...not just one) How about group health care benefits?  If you and your family are healthy, individual coverage will be about half...btw...that "benefit" is paid for from your 60%.  If your health is bad, you can get a group policy of your own.  How about just having a buddy from the same firm around the corner or in the office next door?  You can still be friends with your EJ buddies but most likely if you move they will too. 
Money is great.  I like it a lot.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't come to the field partly for the money.  I think when you ONLY focus on the money and not everything else in life you start to get jaded.  I focused on money because it is easy to quantify and compare not because it means everything to me.  If it did, I'd work a lot harder to make more but I'd rather enjoy life and thanks to this business I can.  I worked 80 hrs/week in my prior career to make my employer richer...I like golf and tennis too much to allow that to happen again.  I don't want to have to worry about learning new compliance laws or HR issues.  Compliance is pretty much the same and what is different just isn't that hard to understand.  Jones guys are pretty far from the edge anyway so compliance is a non-issue.  HR issues, now there's an area we can spend weeks on.  As an Indy, I make the rules for my staff and their main function is NOT to keep an eye on me like the BOA is at EJ.  I can surf porn all day if I want and my auditors just don't care.  I can have tax software on MY PC and nobody cares...try bringing in your own PC and see what happens at EJ.  I don't want to have to go out buy a new computer every so often and then hassle with making sure all the files transfer.  I replace my PC about ever 3 years and there is one software program that takes care of it.  You can also buy that skill if you don't want to deal with it.  I felt I needed a PC at EJ anyway because the systems just didn't have all the functionality I wanted so that arguement would not fly.  I don't want to have to haggle with the landlord over my rent.   The only person who is going to care about landlord issues is YOU...EJ does not save you one headache in this area.  Any stress you feel with your landlord will be there anyway because you still have to relay the story to EJ and wait for a resolution...I can just move my office and tell the landlord to "haul ass".  

Spiff, you raised some good points but being Indy is not near the hassle you think it is.  It would be a bigger deal for guys not working for EJ before they go Indy but you deal with many of the issues pertaining to running your own office anyway...why not get paid for it?  Payroll only takes minutes a week, filing tax reports is easy, paying payroll taxes is easy, etc.  If you really don't want to deal with these issues, you have the CHOICE to hire those skill, save money doing it and control the process.  Make a list of things you think are difficult or time-consuming and I'll address them with realistic answers.  I don't candy coat stuff for my clients nor would I for you...I hate surprises and I would feel horrible if someone went Indy and didn't make it because they got bad info. from me.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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There will never be any agreement between indies and the wirehouse/regional guys about which is better.  I think it's the grass is always greener arguement.  I like working for Jones.  I'd probably like being indy too.  I tend to be pretty happy wherever I am.  uwec makes good points.  Not good enough to make me hang out my own shinge.  You guys can stop trying to talk me into it.
Oh yeah, on the diversification trip issue.  I hear that same arguement all the time from people who have left Jones.  It's lame.  No, you can't book those same trips for the amount of money you pay in taxes.  Not even close. 
My wife and I took the shopping trip to NY last Christmas.  4 nights at Le Parker Meridien at $450/night (I thought about extending so I looked up the price), breakfast and dinner allowances at I think $50 per meal Jones wasn't sponsoring.  Jones had a welcome and farewell dinner.  Tickets to see Chicago.  $750 shopping allowance.  And airfare to get there and back.  They handed me an envelope with $950 bucks cash in it for the meals and shopping money.  They booked the tickets to the show.  They made the arrangements.  I simply packed and left.  I had to give up about 2 hours for a meeting where I learned nothing.  I'm going to pay about $1500 for the taxes.  If someone out there has a travel agent that can do it cheaper than that I'd like to hear from them.               

DRAPALA's picture
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Spiff,
 We're watching in HO. Get back to work.
GP

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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I'm much less concerned about you than I am my wife.  She's the one that sees how much goes into my bank account every month.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

My wife and I took the shopping trip to NY last Christmas.  4 nights at Le Parker Meridien at $450/night (I thought about extending so I looked up the price), breakfast and dinner allowances at I think $50 per meal Jones wasn't sponsoring.  Jones had a welcome and farewell dinner.  Tickets to see Chicago.  $750 shopping allowance.  And airfare to get there and back.  They handed me an envelope with $950 bucks cash in it for the meals and shopping money.  They booked the tickets to the show.  They made the arrangements.  I simply packed and left.  I had to give up about 2 hours for a meeting where I learned nothing.  I'm going to pay about $1500 for the taxes.  If someone out there has a travel agent that can do it cheaper than that I'd like to hear from them.
I'm glad you had a nice time.  For me it was never enjoyable to take the Jones trips.  And it wasn't about whether I could get a cheaper deal through my travel agent. First of all, I can't think of very many places I would less like to vacation in than New York City.  I hated the group things, group dinners, group evenings out, group tours.  Felt like the South Park kids all joined at the hip.  I don't want to hang out with a bunch of Jones guys, their boring wives and snotty children. (I know!!! not all wives are boring and not all children are snotty, but I want it to be MY choice on who I hang with on vacation)
I don't want to give up 2 seconds on vacation to go to a meeting, much less one where I learned nothing.
My idea of a great vacation is to pick where I want to go, for how long and decide if I want to do anything or nothing on my vacation.   Another reason I don't care for cruise ships.  Too structured and they are always trying to get you to play nice with the rest of the guests, pose for pictures and participate in events.   MEH!!!

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Trips are more about keeping the drones isolated from the unclean others...continuously(sp)  bombarded with the Jones mantra.  Why else would they have catagories you have to put your clients into...have preferreds pay for the majority of it...No free thinking...and the more spiffy thinks on his own the more the screws will tighten on him. 

gad12's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-06

What amt for the trips do you think the vendors actually pay?

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Why should they pay any of it?

spikedkoolaid's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-20

Sorry Babbling I usually agree with you but this time I must disagree on a couple of points--
1) My wife and I went to some very cool places on the Jones Trips--New Zealand, Tahiti, Germany, Italy, Monte Carlo, Paris, Brazil, Maui, Greece, Turkey, Japan etc...over the 8 years I was with them.  Granted, we did not have any children at the time. 
We figured out how to have our own vacation by using EDJ.  We always booked our own trip, own timeline, own airline.  We always made an appearance at the first night welcome cocktail party (free drinks) and then we never went to anything else that was group oriented.  I didn't even attend the "mandatory" meeting most of the time.  I got calls from the GP's some times and I just said I was worn out from the trip and I couldn't make it to the meeting.
The only thing I miss about being at Jones is the wonderful trips.  I think that it might have been different had we had children.  I can take my own trips now, and I do.  They are not as luxiourious nor are they as far from home.  Nor are they taxed!  They are tax-deductible because I make sure I am meeting a client/prospect where I am going.
Anyway, the one thing Jones does right is the trips.  The only thing they do wrong is hire Maritz to solicit the side trips.  Maritz is a joke.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

babbling looney wrote:
My wife and I took the shopping trip to NY last Christmas.  4 nights at Le Parker Meridien at $450/night (I thought about extending so I looked up the price), breakfast and dinner allowances at I think $50 per meal Jones wasn't sponsoring.  Jones had a welcome and farewell dinner.  Tickets to see Chicago.  $750 shopping allowance.  And airfare to get there and back.  They handed me an envelope with $950 bucks cash in it for the meals and shopping money.  They booked the tickets to the show.  They made the arrangements.  I simply packed and left.  I had to give up about 2 hours for a meeting where I learned nothing.  I'm going to pay about $1500 for the taxes.  If someone out there has a travel agent that can do it cheaper than that I'd like to hear from them.
I'm glad you had a nice time.  For me it was never enjoyable to take the Jones trips.  And it wasn't about whether I could get a cheaper deal through my travel agent. First of all, I can't think of very many places I would less like to vacation in than New York City.  I hated the group things, group dinners, group evenings out, group tours.  Felt like the South Park kids all joined at the hip.  I don't want to hang out with a bunch of Jones guys, their boring wives and snotty children. (I know!!! not all wives are boring and not all children are snotty, but I want it to be MY choice on who I hang with on vacation)
I don't want to give up 2 seconds on vacation to go to a meeting, much less one where I learned nothing.
My idea of a great vacation is to pick where I want to go, for how long and decide if I want to do anything or nothing on my vacation.   Another reason I don't care for cruise ships.  Too structured and they are always trying to get you to play nice with the rest of the guests, pose for pictures and participate in events.   MEH!!!

We didn't have to go to NY.  We'd been there before very briefly and wanted to go back and see it at Christmas.  We could have gone on any of 20 trips.  I don't think anyone likes the meetings, but they're a necessary evil.  I don't think anyone forces you to do the group events.  The trip I was on before that most of the top producers who were there didn't even show up for the business meetings.  I don't recall them getting fired. 
For you BL maybe you take the cash and plan your own trip.  Either way to get something like that for basically doing your job is a nice perk.   

uwec86's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
No, you can't book those same trips for the amount of money you pay in taxes.  Not even close. 

You can't buy the trips for the amount you pay in taxes but the trips are way overvalued making your tax bill higher.  Jones gets much of those trips paid for by kickbacks so why should you pay taxes on full price.  Anything not covered by kickbacks is paid for by you and the 60+% you pay Jones. 

Maxstud's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-29

uwec86 wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:
No, you can't book those same trips for the amount of money you pay in taxes.  Not even close. 

Jones gets much of those trips paid for by kickbacks so why should you pay taxes on full price.   Federal Tax Law?

eddjones654's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-03

I haven't checked recently but a GP was on the board of directors of Maritz.........coincidence????

farotech's picture
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Joined: 2007-01-05

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
How about company stock or employer matching on a 401K?  How about group health care benefits?  

What? Company stock? EDJ is not a symbol. And the health insurance sucks and is expensive!
I'm pretty sure I met you at a regional meeting. You are Director of Stopping the Turnover or something like that. Get back to your cube.

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Eddj...I resent your reference on the GP being part of Maritz.  How outlandish a thought of perhaps another profit center.  You must be a failed segment 1...Your probably the worst advisor on this earth and the mothership is better for you leaving!!  You couldn't hack the churning enviroment this promotes!!! Loser!!!

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

I agree with Spiffy...everyone on here..except me and SPiff...are losers who couldn't hack the buy and hold and churn, buy and hold and churn, buy and hold and churn system.  You all need to get back to servicing your clients the rightway and make your 90% ( how could anyone leave for 90% compared to the very generous 38%-expenses) and get off the green plagues back, you sob's.  I hope this helps me get back into the good graces of the wonderful churn shop in St Louieeeee....I miss seeing everyones trailing 4....I asked LPL if they could provide me the trailing 4 of all the reps locally...they hung up on me....now is that anyway to treat a jones wannabe...don't they know who their talking to...

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I missed your sarcasm the last few days spears.  Good to see you back.

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Well...I went on vacation without the laptop.  Good to be back and missed!!  Tell me your not really the stop the exodus GP...are you?  I surely missed Spaceman Spiff on the 10k...didn't you make more than Weddle?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

You had to really read the fine print and get the special copy not released to the general public.  It only went to lower level GPs and LPs with a sense of humor.  They are the ones who could chuckle at the amount of money we don't make at EDJ.  It also included footnotes on the real reasons we don't have a fee based platform yet, why they give $30 million books to new guys, when the green screens are really going to go away, and what the real cost of the diversification trips are.  I'll email you a copy tomorrow morning after I scan it. 

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Spaceman Spiff wrote:You had to really read the fine print and
get the special copy not released to the general public.  It only
went to lower level GPs and LPs with a sense of humor.  They are
the ones who could chuckle at the amount of money we don't make at
EDJ.  It also included footnotes on the real reasons we don't have
a fee based platform yet, why they give $30 million books to new guys,
when the green screens are really going to go away, and what the real
cost of the diversification trips are.  I'll email you a copy
tomorrow morning after I scan it. 

Dude....coming in with some serious sarcasm there....want the name of the local LPL recruiter yet?

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

GET IT TO HIM NOW JOE!!!!!  SPiffy..join us...we are Lutheran hell bent on helping the less fortunate.  LPL IS YOUR savior...and your wife's. Is she hot? 

Greenbacks's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-21

Maybe LPL should send post cards to all the EDJ office's  

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Yes, my wife is hot.  And the local LPL guy (an ex Jonesie who was pissed because he didn't get the be the RL) already does.  I chuckle at them when I get them.

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Way to go Spiffy...knock the robot who worked his ass off for the good of the firm and because he didn't suck up to someone at hq..he was passed over....But I assume he is rolling in the cash now....If he just would have taken the Growth Leader or call session leader or communication leaders job...he would have been okay...right Spiffy.

ezmoney's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

who cares!

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