Where to go when you're not the cream?

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SeekingAlpha's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-22

Other than an arguement to go independent.. For those who are not the cream of the crop at their prospective wirehouses, and are seeing their already chopped payout dwindle more, i would consider Waddell & Reed.  They have a new open archectecture platform that for the experienced but not gargantuan sized practice or team, the payout will absolutely destroy that of the wirehouse, and with easily the same amount of products available, better support, and the benefits of being a 1099 for tax reasons.
 
So if you're in the 150-500k range, and sick of you're 30-45% payout, i would consider that you're not getting paid what you're worth, and the days of the brand carrying you are over.
 
Anyone wanting information, i have been with the firm 6+years, and have a 250+k production practice..
 
Good luck

chief123's picture
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Joined: 2008-10-28

You couldn't pay me to go there...sorry..

ChurnNBurn's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-11

WDR is the biggest chop shop in the business. They were AGE research departments largest client. Their funds have BLOWN up over the past year, some down 60+.....stay away

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-11

What about Chatfield Dean?

badmove?'s picture
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Joined: 2006-06-10

Hibbard Brown?

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

Burnham Andrun

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

Pee Pee & Pooh Pooh

Sailor25's picture
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Joined: 2005-04-09

Boyd, Dewey, Chernham & Howe

bondo's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-15

I've never heard of most of these firms.  What strip malls are they located in and around?

EXMerrillFA's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-19

LOL!!

today1's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-07

how about cheech and chong.  i heard they are picking up a lot of business these days.

Beagle's picture
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Joined: 2005-03-21

I worked at Waddell & Reed& Hibbard Brown.    Waddell & Reed was a part time job during my junior year in college and it got me started on some licensing.  Hibbard and Brown was a summer job I took between my Junior and Senior year (for some reason they were under the impression I had graduated!).  This allowed me to get my Series 7 while still in college. 

pdgnyr's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-13

I work at a clean shop called Sandgrain Securities. We offer high payouts and as a minority owned firm are selling group members for a variety of NYS California and Ohio muni offerings. You can work from yoir own office start your own or work from one of ours in Garden City, NYC or Boca Raton Florida. Call me at 516 750 7859. Peter

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

pdgnyr wrote:I work at a clean shop called Sandgrain Securities. We offer high payouts and as a minority owned firm are selling group members for a variety of NYS California and Ohio muni offerings. You can work from yoir own office start your own or work from one of ours in Garden City, NYC or Boca Raton Florida. Call me at 516 750 7859. PeterI'm sorry that you can't compete without an unearned advantage.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

If you're not the cream, are you at least the twinkie?

WSxAG's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

hahahahaha, wait, hahahahaha . . .

SeekingAlpha's picture
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Joined: 2008-05-22

well if you loaded up on natural resources and didn't follow an asset allocation you blew it up not the fund.. take a look a the lipper sector for nat. res funds.. its right in line.
 
God love people who generalize.
 
lucky you're not my advisor
 
skgalpha

OS's picture
OS
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Joined: 2008-11-03

Waddell & Reed is to Finanacial Advising as Carrot Top is to Sun Tans.

feebasedrep's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-31

Can they even sell stocks there?

Bud  Fox's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-20

Ya go to EDJ....

Gaddock's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

"What about Chatfield Dean? "
 
Holy crap they are still around? I had a job with them in the early 90's. They emerged from what was put out of business, Stewart James. Boiler room penny stockers. I would have thought they would all be in fed pen by now considering what they were doing at the time.

Independent's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-15

You might just need to dig deeper into the independent firms around you to find what you want.  Sounds like you prefer to work in a group setting.  The firm I work at, Cantella,  has some branches with a bunch of former wirehouse guys and they keep adding reps from Wachovia, AG Edwards, and Merrill as they get frustrated.  One branch offers the entire package, 401(k) match, health and dental, sales assistants.  Everything is taken care of except for the sales.  We clear thru Raymond James and JPM Morgan, so we get their research, can talk to their analysts, and the whole atmosphere is like working in a wirehouse other than reps get to keep more of the revenue.  Where are you located? 

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

I looked at Cantella briefly, but don't remember.  Do they use RJ's dashboard?

HymanRoth's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

Gaddock wrote:"What about Chatfield Dean? "
 
Holy crap they are still around? I had a job with them in the early 90's. They emerged from what was put out of business, Stewart James. Boiler room penny stockers. I would have thought they would all be in fed pen by now considering what they were doing at the time.I think Chatfield Dean is long gone.  In NY many of them worked their way through a few other boiler rooms run by folks descended from First Jersey and Stratton Oakmont legacies.Eventually many of them became mortgage brokers, at least in NYC metro area, and now here we are...

snaggletooth's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-13

SeekingAlpha wrote:Other than an arguement to go independent.. For those who are not the cream of the crop at their prospective wirehouses, and are seeing their already chopped payout dwindle more, i would consider Waddell & Reed.  They have a new open archectecture platform that for the experienced but not gargantuan sized practice or team, the payout will absolutely destroy that of the wirehouse, and with easily the same amount of products available, better support, and the benefits of being a 1099 for tax reasons.
 
So if you're in the 150-500k range, and sick of you're 30-45% payout, i would consider that you're not getting paid what you're worth, and the days of the brand carrying you are over.
 
Anyone wanting information, i have been with the firm 6+years, and have a 250+k production practice..
 
Good luck
 
Any time I come across someone working at W&R or that has an account at W&R, I make sure to never talk above them. 
 
I just let them know that if they get tired of being virtually worthless to this world, I can help.
 
It's kind of like those "special" people that sit in the corner of a room curled up in a ball talking to themselves while rocking back and forth.  Generally, the rest of the world leaves them alone and wonders why we have to share our oxygen with them.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I had a conversation with a client yesterday that said he got a nice check from W&R.  I knew he had a couple W&R funds, but is too stubborn to let me move them into Jones.  Science and Tenhnology and their Core fund.  Anyway, when I asked him what this check was for I had to stifle a chuckle when he said for cap gains.  So, I said wait a minute, you mean you got a big check last year for cap gains.  You do know that you have to pay taxes on that check, right?  Silence.  So, I went on.  So, you lost almost 40% last year AND they sent you a tax bill?  Did those guys over there call you to let you know that you were going to get a tax bill?  Still, silence. 
 
He'll keep the fund because he's just that stubborn, but it was a bit fun for me to point out for him how bad that particular investment was last year. 

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

I bet you couldn't sleep last night, thinking about the A share ticket it could've been..if..he..would...have...taken...your...great...advice. Another sucker fish that got away. 
SO..none of your mf clients will get dinged for Cap Gains and are also down 40%?...lots of mf's have imbedded cap gains....even with the loss.  He's better off at W&R vs selling out and paying an upfront A share with you..hands down.

Hank Moody's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-10

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I had a conversation with a client yesterday that said he got a nice check from W&R.  I knew he had a couple W&R funds, but is too stubborn to let me move them into Jones.  Science and Tenhnology and their Core fund.  Anyway, when I asked him what this check was for I had to stifle a chuckle when he said for cap gains.  So, I said wait a minute, you mean you got a big check last year for cap gains.  You do know that you have to pay taxes on that check, right?  Silence.  So, I went on.  So, you lost almost 40% last year AND they sent you a tax bill?  Did those guys over there call you to let you know that you were going to get a tax bill?  Still, silence. 
 
He'll keep the fund because he's just that stubborn, but it was a bit fun for me to point out for him how bad that particular investment was last year.  Too bad you won't show him an annuity, so that he can defer his taxes into the future and not have a carrying cost. Please send me his phone number.

Independent's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-15

They do use the dashboard along with the other great technology at Raymond James.

iluvwr's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

what a bunch of crap on this string.  What's funny is you guys can't sell WR funds but Waddell can sell almost all the funds I'm sure you're selling.  Most of our funds are 5 star from Morningstar and have great Alpha.
We can sell everything unlike Jones.  You have to be at a certain production level to get paid on stock, bonds, options etc.  I hit that production level in the first 9 months.
 
We haven't been sold a million times, aren't about to go bankrupt and we are paid well.  We get to keep 80% of our trail production and 50% on new sales.  Our technology is top notch and we are the fund.  It's like American funds having their own advisors.  By the way I sell American Funds, Franklin, Blackrock etc if I don't have fund that fits the clients needs.
 
Stick that in your pipe.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Hank Moody wrote: Spaceman Spiff wrote:I had a conversation with a client yesterday that said he got a nice check from W&R.  I knew he had a couple W&R funds, but is too stubborn to let me move them into Jones.  Science and Tenhnology and their Core fund.  Anyway, when I asked him what this check was for I had to stifle a chuckle when he said for cap gains.  So, I said wait a minute, you mean you got a big check last year for cap gains.  You do know that you have to pay taxes on that check, right?  Silence.  So, I went on.  So, you lost almost 40% last year AND they sent you a tax bill?  Did those guys over there call you to let you know that you were going to get a tax bill?  Still, silence. 
 
He'll keep the fund because he's just that stubborn, but it was a bit fun for me to point out for him how bad that particular investment was last year.  Too bad you won't show him an annuity, so that he can defer his taxes into the future and not have a carrying cost. Please send me his phone number.
 
I did show him an annuity.  He couldn't wrap his brain around the fees.  Doesn't care about death benefit (no kids).  Wouldn't use a living benefit.  Doesn't care so much about the taxes.  So, to him there wasn't enough of a benefit to the annuity and the extra expenses.  Just FYI, I show almost all of my clients annuities as a part of my presentations.  I like them. 

iluvwr's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

Here you go Beuller

what a bunch of crap on this thread.  What's funny is you guys can't sell WR funds but Waddell can sell almost all the funds I'm sure you're selling.  Most of our funds are 5 star from Morningstar and have great Alpha.
We can sell everything unlike Jones.  You have to be at a certain production level to get paid on stock, bonds, options etc.  I hit that production level in the first 9 months.
 
We haven't been sold a million times, aren't about to go bankrupt and we are paid well.  We get to keep 80% of our trail production and 50% on new sales.  Our technology is top notch and we are the fund.  It's like American funds having their own advisors.  By the way I sell American Funds, Franklin, Blackrock etc if I don't have fund that fits the clients needs.
 
Stick that in your pipe and Bueller I'm sure your firm really does suck because you work for them.  Yippie Yi Yo MF

WSxAG's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-23

In defense of Ferris - if you're quoting John McLane from Die Hard - it's actually "Yippie-Ki-Yay". Oh, and your firm hasn't been bought b/c , well c'mon, be serious . . .

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

bspears wrote:I bet you couldn't sleep last night, thinking about the A share ticket it could've been..if..he..would...have...taken...your...great...advice. Another sucker fish that got away. 
SO..none of your mf clients will get dinged for Cap Gains and are also down 40%?...lots of mf's have imbedded cap gains....even with the loss.  He's better off at W&R vs selling out and paying an upfront A share with you..hands down.
 
Down 40%.  No.  Had declared cap gains.  Yes.  Pay any cap gains taxes.  No.  Offset with some exchanges.  Yes.  At my suggestion.  Yes.  Did W&R call to make suggestion.  No.  So, now that you are armed with that knowledge, where would he have been better off last year?   
 
The comment about being beter off at W&R vs here with me is a ludicrous statement to make since you have no idea what else this guy owns or what I would have recommended.  But then so are most of the comments you make about me and Jones.
 
Sometimes it scares me to think that I might have been one of the instructors in your KYC/EvalGrad/PDP classes.  I'll have to look that up one of these days.
 
 

Incredible Hulk's picture
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Joined: 2006-03-24

iluvwr wrote:
We can sell everything unlike Jones.  

Then why have I only seen B share WR mfds in every statement I've ever seen from you jokers?

iluvwr's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

I've never sold a B share in my life.  The only B shares I have are transfers from Ed Jones.
 
As far as brokerages or money manger stocks we were well above average for the group.  Not that that's saying much in this market.

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