What to buy in this market?

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Gordon Gekko's picture
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I gotta say, the traditional stuff (mutual funds, VAs) aint cutting it. Have you seen what the insurer stocks (Met, HIG,etc.) are doing lately?  Clients want FDIC coverage and that pays us nothing. I am sure this post will attract some smart ass responses but I am curious to hear. 

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Bond Guy was right when he said T-Bills a few weeks ago. Now it may be too late for that trade. Or maybe not.
What do you thinnk we should buy? Blue Chip Stocks? Emerging Markets?
Municipal Bonds? Maybe we should be conservative right now and buy high
grade corporates, only those rated AA or better! Like Hartford
Insurance Group. AA- rated and you cant even get a bid if you want to
sell it.
Right now, i dont think how much we make should be the driver of our
decisions. Unless we dont care if we have a book in six months.
I know some will say thats wrong, that its time to load up the truck,
while everyone is panicking. I would sort of like to wait, until at
least the first two or three stocks get at least close to their 200 day
moving averages!. I dont mean that literally, but i think my point is
made.
Be safe and keep your clients safe, till there is some sense of normalcy.

eggward's picture
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Joined: 2007-08-06

If you compaire yields on munis to treasuries, its a no-brainer.  Get some high quality munis - don't load the boat, but some nibbiling is certainly in order.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aUi1pU8IdPn0&refer=home
 
I took grief from some fc on the board when I said the biggest purchase I made lately was the Wachovia bank CD special that paid me zippo. The VIX doesn't lie, this is what it feels like to buy low. Problem is I am not buying anything. Ultrashort etfs make sense given my pessimism but what retiree would warm up to them (or maybe they would!).

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-08

they were a no brainer a year ago and they still got their teeth kicked in. I am with you coceptually, just frustrated.

Anonymous's picture
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Gordon Gekko wrote:
 
Ultrashort etfs make sense given
 

 
Given what?  Given the fact the DOW has already dumped 4,000 points?  Yes, ultrashort ETFs make a lot of sense right now...
 
Seriously.  You needed to have a plan in place for this BEFORE it happened - now is a little late for implementation. 
 
I'm buying.  And in 5 years, I, and my clients, will be happy that I'm buying (intelligently, of course) with the DOW @ 10K, rather than sit on some CDs and T-Bills for 3%, and then get back in @ 12,500. 
 
That's not to say you shouldn't have a healthy dose of CDs/Treasuries/Money Market/Savings/etc. for those clients that are in, or near, retirement.  But you should have that in place because of age/risk tolerance, not because the market scares you all of a sudden.
 
Sorry for the rant, but you don't get paid to get as scared as the clients.  You get paid to build an intelligently designed portfolio, and take emotion out of the investing process. 

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B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

The problem is, the market is not operating on fundamentals right now, it's in a period of deleveraging. This does not happen that often, and nobody knows what the fuc! is going on. So making any bold moves is probably not a wise move in the short term, unless it is to something very safe and liquid. Who knows how long this will take to work out, but everyone trying to jockey into bargains, shorts, safe plays, etc. is just adding fuel to the volatility fire.

IMHO, if you have long-term money, and you are in quality, you are best to sit tight for a while. If your time horizon is 5 years or less, something safer is probably in order.

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

I completely agree with ice. Most of my clients are in mutual funds and my primary concern is to make sure they're balanced and not panicking and bailing. 
 
For their long-term money, I'm trying to convince them to add to their funds. I do not believe in loading up on what looks safe today and then trying to get back into the market at some "ideal" time in the future.
 
Where do these guys work where they're being taught to move in and out of asset classes based on what they feel the market will do next? I've been taught to buy quality, diversify and be patient. With the exception of ice and maybe a few others, the majority of us in the FA position have zero business playing Russian Roulette with our clients' portfolios.
 
If you were selling cars, computers, office equipment, teaching history or writing speeding tickets at your job prior to this one, do the right thing and build balanced mutual fund portfolios for your clients and then leave the rest up to the money managers. You are not more capable or talented than the brainiacs at American, OppenheimerFunds, etc. Get over yourselves.
 

HymanRoth's picture
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Joined: 2008-08-25

Sportsfreakbob wrote:Bond Guy was right when he said T-Bills a few weeks ago. Now it may be too late for that trade. Or maybe not.
What do you thinnk we should buy? Blue Chip Stocks? Emerging Markets?
Municipal Bonds? Maybe we should be conservative right now and buy high
grade corporates, only those rated AA or better! Like Hartford
Insurance Group. AA- rated and you cant even get a bid if you want to
sell it.
Right now, i dont think how much we make should be the driver of our
decisions. Unless we dont care if we have a book in six months.
I know some will say thats wrong, that its time to load up the truck,
while everyone is panicking. I would sort of like to wait, until at
least the first two or three stocks get at least close to their 200 day
moving averages!. I dont mean that literally, but i think my point is
made.
Be safe and keep your clients safe, till there is some sense of normalcy.
I admit it is scary to leap in, but IMHO waiting for a sense of normalcy will cost you 10% to the upside by the time you get in...

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

Scary thought is last down market took the DOW down to 7500.  I know seems far fetched seeing how bad it is now, but If you asked me if the news was worse then or now?  I would say hands down now.  People are afraid to keep their money in a bank, can't get a loan, there was virtually nobody who was underwater on their house in 2002,  Hope i am wrong, but think this could get ugly.

HymanRoth's picture
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fritz wrote:Scary thought is last down market took the DOW down to 7500.  I know seems far fetched seeing how bad it is now, but If you asked me if the news was worse then or now?  I would say hands down now.  People are afraid to keep their money in a bank, can't get a loan, there was virtually nobody who was underwater on their house in 2002,  Hope i am wrong, but think this could get ugly.This isn't ugly already?Perhaps few were underwater on their houses, but plenty more were WAY underwater on their tech stocks.

rankstocks's picture
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Last week I put 2 million to work.  This week will be no different.  Even if I don't catch the bottom for clients, eventually we will be in the black significantly.  I'm going to be buying the double short long treasury (TBT) and the dollar long fund (UUP).  I'll be adding to quality stocks like MMM, INTC, and EMR.  I'll be backing the truck up on muni's across the board.  I'm going to be continuing to add to our advisory platform in a balanced approach, buying when the market is over 30% on sale.  I'm going to be taking small percentages over the next several months, as I sit down with clients, and see if they can handle moving money out of bond funds and ETF's and into equities.  My average client is down around 15% over the last year, and may decline even more.....but to waste an opportunity that only comes around every 4 years....no way....

HymanRoth's picture
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rankstocks wrote:Last week I put 2 million to work.  This week will be no different.  Even if I don't catch the bottom for clients, eventually we will be in the black significantly.  I'm going to be buying the double short long treasury (TBT) and the dollar long fund (UUP).  I'll be adding to quality stocks like MMM, INTC, and EMR.  I'll be backing the truck up on muni's across the board.  I'm going to be continuing to add to our advisory platform in a balanced approach, buying when the market is over 30% on sale.  I'm going to be taking small percentages over the next several months, as I sit down with clients, and see if they can handle moving money out of bond funds and ETF's and into equities.  My average client is down around 15% over the last year, and may decline even more.....but to waste an opportunity that only comes around every 4 years....no way....Appreciate the input Rank.  Funny that despite my earlier posts, with the latest dose of morning news I am(at the moment) finding it a little harder than usual to stay calm and objective.What about T or GE?  True GE has finance exposure, but they also have a lot of new capital, and a mighty nice divy.

bspears's picture
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Liquor, tobacco and porn...WALMART

walking9's picture
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JKD. Capitulation: in crisis there is opportunitiy.

anonymous's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-29

Today is no different than any other day in my career...I don't have a clue as to what tomorrow will bring.  Therefore, nothing has changed in any of my recommendations.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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the longer I do this job, the more what you say rings true (it is always true, it's just in down times that we brokers remember it).

Vin Diesel's picture
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Joined: 2007-04-18

i love munis at these levels, preferreds, high quality corporates, and convertable bond funds.
 
there is some $ to be made in these markets...

BondGuy's picture
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Joined: 2006-09-21

Buy munis!
 
The price decline of the last month (preceded by the price decline of the past year) is not a function of credit quality. It is a function of the market. I should say what market? Which aptly describes the problem. With the stampede to the 30 day treasuries the further you get in time and qualty from those treasuries the more adverse the pricing move to the downside. This has cut new issue issuance by 90% over the past couple weeks and secondary trading to a drip. There is no volume. Yet in absence of volume and in a market absent of buyers, bonds continue to be marked to the non market on a daily basis. Muni funds have been especially hard hit.
 
Points to factor in:
 
1. The move of major ratings companies toward Global-Scale ratings on munis will boost muni ratings across the board.
 
2. Muni bond holders have first call on real property- ahead of 1st mortgage holders in a tax default. Realistically, if a homeowner/developer doesn't pay their taxes a tax lien is sold. The lien buyer, usually the 1st mortgage holder buys the lien at a tax sale. OR, the property goes to a lien buyer at a tax sale. Either way, the taxes get paid. It may take two years for the property to go thru this process, but ultimately the taxes get paid. Even in a forclosure, the bank can't move forward if a tax lien is attached to the property. The Lien has to be cleared before the bank can remarket the property.  Outside of Treasuries, what other security has this kind of security?
 
3. Reassessment unlikely. Reassessments are unlikely anyway, but with property values down it unlikely that any taxing entity that isn't required by law to do so will reassess. Reassessment would reduce income to the towns, counties etc. That ain't gonna happen.
 
4. Price of a muni can be calculated as the present value of future cash flows plus maturity value with a discount rate set by the market. Right now that discount rate is ridiculously high.
 
5. Biggest default in recent history, Orange county CA ,paid off Principal and interest 100%.
 
6. Every day that goes by bonds move one day closer to maturity.
 
7. As this is written, Obama leads in the pols by a wide margin. Highly possible that taxes will be going up for upper tax bracket tax payers. This is good news for tax free bonds.
 
8. Bear Sterns was the number 4 muni market maker, JP morgan number 7. This is contributing to the illiquidity/pricing problems within the market. The market makers are in disarry. But not for long or at least not forever.
 
9. The muni market default rate has not changed. This is a market event, not a credit quality event within the muni market.
 
10.  The stock market has been crushed before and the sky has fallen before. 21 years ago this month the market had it's worst one day performance. Today, we stand five times higher than at that point. That's a five hundred percent return when every expert said it was all over. Is it Buffet who is saying the time to buy is when things look scariest?
 
It's plenty scary right now. But it's also time to buy. For those who need to buy income, it's time to buy tax free bonds.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Bravo, dude! Well written!

Gaddock's picture
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Guys you are missing the bonanza of a lifetime. Dont but unless it's a 'buy back to close'. I've been selling in and out of options contracts like they are going out of style!

ezmoney's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

i love munis, and preferreds. but man i'm i getting my ass kicked buying munis for clients. i mean teeth kicked in!!

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

Awesome post BondGuy!!!!!!!!!!!

walking9's picture
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C'mon, time to be a man and buy stocks. The yield on GE is over 6%. What are you waiting for? Little old ladies is fine, for your active cliets, buy INTC.

ezmoney's picture
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intc sucks

deekay's picture
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I loooove me some GMAB's from mutual insurance companies for my accumulators.  Keeps 'em in the game (which we all should be doing, NOT selling in a panic)
 
Retirees?  We've had to be creative.  If you really know what you're doing and not just throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks, clients aren't feeling the pinch too much.

ezmoney's picture
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see you at 8000. wasn't short term money. the question we should all be asking is why didn't the brains in reasearch see this coming instead of putting out the all so optimistic forecast. i'm very disappointed in them.
 
ole' lincoln anderson told us in the early spring '07 that the housing market wouldn't hurt and that the sub prime mess was such a small piece of the pie that we shouldn't worry about it. he should be fired for not giving us better advice. hell i could of given that half assedadvise! he's pitiful. LPl should get better!

troll's picture
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ezmoney wrote:see you at 8000. wasn't short term money. the question we should all be asking is why didn't the brains in reasearch see this coming instead of putting out the all so optimistic forecast. i'm very disappointed in them.
 
ole' lincoln anderson told us in the early spring '07 that the housing market wouldn't hurt and that the sub prime mess was such a small piece of the pie that we shouldn't worry about it. he should be fired for not giving us better advice. hell i could of given that half assedadvise! he's pitiful. LPl should get better!
 
Really, wasn't short term?  Missed the 100k breakpoint?  And if it wasn't short term, why are you letting short term market action dictate long term investment advice?  Hmmmm.

ezmoney's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

what are you compliance dept. i get paid for my service. 1% to be exact. see you at 8000.

troll's picture
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Your clients are overpaying.

walking9's picture
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Wisdom.

Gaddock's picture
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I get 5% in and out of a position ... I don't get why nobody else seems to get it. You want to buy in ... sell a cash covered put. If you get your price you get to reduce your basis on the per the premium recieved, It doesnt get there you get paid for being wrong. Never mind writting covered calls.

Gaddock's picture
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VIX over 40, delta under .20 or -.20 you have a 80% chance of success with 5 differant ways to worm out of a loss. Not to mention FREE margin $$.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=RYMZX

Is anyone else using this fund? I realize that it will lag if the market takes off and/or they are on the wrong side of a trade. However, I have been pleasantly (underlined)  surprised. Plus if I want to sell it I don't have to deal with anything approaching the TARP getting passed through the House to sell. Selling Campbell or its ilk is a pain in the arse.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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I spoke with our Met wholesaler today, he attempted to sooth my nerves via the cash they raised and are sitting on (20 billion) and the hope that other insurers will bail out other insurers to keep them all propped up. Apparently Smith Barney has an analyst who put out a report saying Met is the one to own. Don't plan on owning the stock, just want the darn GMIB+ to be there when my clients need it.

footsoldier's picture
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GG-
 
The realization that these companies can tell you one thing one day and reverse course the next is challenging my faith in the system. I was with a 44 year veteran last night at an MFS meeting (are you listening ICE?) and I have NEVER seen him so discouraged and I have known him almost 20 years. This is a crisis in confidence. LEH, BAC, MER, WAMU  etc..... While I agree with the premise that we should somehow stay positive and back the truck up to buy quality.... I hope what we learn from this experience is to trust no one and regulate the shit out the banks and insurance companies. They deserve it. Bring back the harshest version of Glass-Steagall and make these CEO's earn their friggin pay and restore confidence. GMIB's are at risk aren't they. If capitalization is an issue for firms like MET and Hartford (who just accepted 2.5B from Allianz!) what the hell are they doing?
 
I have heard and read all the corporate responses about how solvent they are, blah,blah,blah....and at this point I can't trust that when the ink is dry or the umpteenth conference call is finished, they aren't thinking about the spin that's coming next to protect themselves for the next capital crisis. And these guys in control are supposed to be so brilliant. They can take their MBA's and shove it where the sun don't shine.
 
Be very careful newbies. Although I have heard time and time again from clients, this crisis is different and I try my best to illustrate it isn't, I think back to my 66 year old veteran in this business who told me he lost on paper 600K of a 2.8M retirement portfolio i the last 12 months. He still is in the market, but he and I both shake our heads in amazement at the stupidity of our business leaders. So you folks who think you know it all or have the best investment ideas, prepare your clients for the worst and be pleasantly suprised when the markets recover. Yesterday I met with JPMorgan and their take is it will be 12-24 months before we see a sustainable recovery. I hope their wrong and its earlier. Their message was wait for a little while and then buy financials (I mean governmnet sponsored banks!) and large cap value stocks whick will lead us out of this mess not small caps (I found that interesting)this time.
 
 

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Footsolider, I went to an American Funds event today and was less than inspired after hearing a bond analyst talk about how bad things are. The only inspiration was a reference to 1974 and the same stuff being said about the market. This time is probably not that different but it still sucks.

snaggletooth's picture
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Go to a Lazard meeting.  Those guys are real downers.  The charts that they show regarding the subprime issue, CDO's, CDS's, leverage, is enough to make you throw up your $40 steak.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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GMO takes the cake for wanting to throw in the towel. The ironic thing about them is, as negative as they always are, they are still getting throttled (at least in their Evergreen fund).  It's ironic that now we are way down, the "downers" are coming out of the woodwork. I at least give David Tice (Prudent Bear) credit, he is always an a-hole 100% of the time.

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

footsoldier wrote:GG-
 
The realization that these companies can tell you one thing one day and reverse course the next is challenging my faith in the system. I was with a 44 year veteran last night at an MFS meeting (are you listening ICE?) and I have NEVER seen him so discouraged and I have known him almost 20 years. This is a crisis in confidence. LEH, BAC, MER, WAMU  etc..... While I agree with the premise that we should somehow stay positive and back the truck up to buy quality.... I hope what we learn from this experience is to trust no one and regulate the shit out the banks and insurance companies. They deserve it. Bring back the harshest version of Glass-Steagall and make these CEO's earn their friggin pay and restore confidence. GMIB's are at risk aren't they. If capitalization is an issue for firms like MET and Hartford (who just accepted 2.5B from Allianz!) what the hell are they doing?
 
I have heard and read all the corporate responses about how solvent they are, blah,blah,blah....and at this point I can't trust that when the ink is dry or the umpteenth conference call is finished, they aren't thinking about the spin that's coming next to protect themselves for the next capital crisis. And these guys in control are supposed to be so brilliant. They can take their MBA's and shove it where the sun don't shine.
 
Be very careful newbies. Although I have heard time and time again from clients, this crisis is different and I try my best to illustrate it isn't, I think back to my 66 year old veteran in this business who told me he lost on paper 600K of a 2.8M retirement portfolio i the last 12 months. He still is in the market, but he and I both shake our heads in amazement at the stupidity of our business leaders. So you folks who think you know it all or have the best investment ideas, prepare your clients for the worst and be pleasantly suprised when the markets recover. Yesterday I met with JPMorgan and their take is it will be 12-24 months before we see a sustainable recovery. I hope their wrong and its earlier. Their message was wait for a little while and then buy financials (I mean governmnet sponsored banks!) and large cap value stocks whick will lead us out of this mess not small caps (I found that interesting)this time.
 
 
Which part in particular are you asking me to pay attention to?  I don't disagree regarding the stupidity of our leaders.  I'd also interject the stupidity of Americans in general. 
 
44 years in the business in itself only illustrates one thing to me...the guy is a good salesman.  Aside from that, he's just an old guy that's discouraged.  44 years doesn't automatically make him smart, or wise (nor does it make him stupid or unwise). 

HymanRoth's picture
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I am glad you guys are so negative....it's giving me and my clients the opportunity to accumulate some exceptional bargains.  We'll gladly sell them back to you 20-30% more when you are feeling better about the world.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Op-Ed ContributorBuy American. I Am.By WARREN E. BUFFETTPublished: October 16, 2008THE financial world is a mess, both in the United States and abroad. Its problems, moreover, have been leaking into the general economy, and the leaks are now turning into a gusher. In the near term, unemployment will rise, business activity will falter and headlines will continue to be scary.So ... I’ve been buying American stocks. This is my personal account I’m talking about, in which I previously owned nothing but United States government bonds. (This description leaves aside my Berkshire Hathaway holdings, which are all committed to philanthropy.) If prices keep looking attractive, my non-Berkshire net worth will soon be 100 percent in United States equities.Why?A simple rule dictates my buying: Be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful. And most certainly, fear is now widespread, gripping even seasoned investors. To be sure, investors are right to be wary of highly leveraged entities or businesses in weak competitive positions. But fears regarding the long-term prosperity of the nation’s many sound companies make no sense. These businesses will indeed suffer earnings hiccups, as they always have. But most major companies will be setting new profit records 5, 10 and 20 years from now.Let me be clear on one point: I can’t predict the short-term movements of the stock market. I haven’t the faintest idea as to whether stocks will be higher or lower a month — or a year — from now. What is likely, however, is that the market will move higher, perhaps substantially so, well before either sentiment or the economy turns up. So if you wait for the robins, spring will be over.A little history here: During the Depression, the Dow hit its low, 41, on July 8, 1932. Economic conditions, though, kept deteriorating until Franklin D. Roosevelt took office in March 1933. By that time, the market had already advanced 30 percent. Or think back to the early days of World War II, when things were going badly for the United States in Europe and the Pacific. The market hit bottom in April 1942, well before Allied fortunes turned. Again, in the early 1980s, the time to buy stocks was when inflation raged and the economy was in the tank. In short, bad news is an investor’s best friend. It lets you buy a slice of America’s future at a marked-down price.Over the long term, the stock market news will be good. In the 20th century, the United States endured two world wars and other traumatic and expensive military conflicts; the Depression; a dozen or so recessions and financial panics; oil shocks; a flu epidemic; and the resignation of a disgraced president. Yet the Dow rose from 66 to 11,497.You might think it would have been impossible for an investor to lose money during a century marked by such an extraordinary gain. But some investors did. The hapless ones bought stocks only when they felt comfort in doing so and then proceeded to sell when the headlines made them queasy.Today people who hold cash equivalents feel comfortable. They shouldn’t. They have opted for a terrible long-term asset, one that pays virtually nothing and is certain to depreciate in value. Indeed, the policies that government will follow in its efforts to alleviate the current crisis will probably prove inflationary and therefore accelerate declines in the real value of cash accounts.Equities will almost certainly outperform cash over the next decade, probably by a substantial degree. Those investors who cling now to cash are betting they can efficiently time their move away from it later. In waiting for the comfort of good news, they are ignoring Wayne Gretzky’s advice: “I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been.”I don’t like to opine on the stock market, and again I emphasize that I have no idea what the market will do in the short term. Nevertheless, I’ll follow the lead of a restaurant that opened in an empty bank building and then advertised: “Put your mouth where your money was.” Today my money and my mouth both say equities.

bspears's picture
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I read that this morning, right after I read American Funds brochure on its new fund.  Buffett 100% US Stocks and Americans new fund is 90% International.  Hmmmm...
Great

bspears's picture
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Let me finish.  Great story....I had a member of a family who has owned a foundry for 100+ years, stop by my office Tuesday afternoon to comment on an article I wrote.  He and I talk a few times a year about different stocks.  I knew he had mucho money in the market..but didn't know exactly how much. His assets are with a small regional b/d for 30+ years. 
 
He started the convesation by saying, "You know you've been invited to a wonderful party and it starts at 6pm."  I said...OOOOkaaaYYY.   He said the reason, and I've never told anyone outside my family,  I have 4 mil invested is because in 1973 I made a decision to do something that seemed just fundamentally wrong.  I asked what that was.  He said he took his and his wife's savings, all of it..51k, and bought stocks in the middle of one of the worst markets in history.  His wife cried.  He'd never invested before, other than cd's at the bank.  The reason he did was because a old timer told him to, and explained to him why. 
He gave me these stocks that he is in...DOW, D, VZ, PG, MMM, GE, JNJ, SO etc (or companies that eventually turned into these).  I never took a dividend and I never sold.  I never sold, but man there's  times in which I needed to, but I didn't. He has 1/3 of his money  in 30 year treasuries that he purchased in the early 90's in the 8-12% range.  He said.."your invited to a party and its 6pm, you need to go. Its 2:30am for me and the party is about over...but for you, its a time when the real money can be made. 
 
I had about 24k in a jt acct in cash and I bought DOW, VZ, GE, SO and ACAS.  Man I'm excited, I hope the market goes down further. 

footsoldier's picture
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44 years in the business in itself only illustrates one thing to me...the guy is a good salesman.  Aside from that, he's just an old guy that's discouraged.  44 years doesn't automatically make him smart, or wise (nor does it make him stupid or unwise). 
 
ice (you haven't earned the right to have your surname capitalized)-
 
You are a fool. Or at least your responses are one of a very young inexperienced adviser. Maybe even you could learn from a 44 year vet in our biz. You would have to get out of the way and I doubt your ego would let you.
 
Why don't you spend a little more time in the biz, and maybe a little less time on these forums. Who knows you might actually be humbled and learn something.  

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

Come on now, foot, that's the beauty of a fee-based business. 
 
Stick the $$ into a model portfolio of mutual funds with auto-rebalancing and then hit your favorite forums all day and all night.
 
Ice has it figured out.
 
My dumb a$$, however, has to start every month looking for new cash to shovel into A shares.
 

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footsoldier wrote: 
You are a fool. Or at least your responses are one of a very young inexperienced adviser. Maybe even you could learn from a 44 year vet in our biz. You would have to get out of the way and I doubt your ego would let you.
 
Why don't you spend a little more time in the biz, and maybe a little less time on these forums. Who knows you might actually be humbled and learn something.  Foot, I know a lot of guys with 30+ years.  I know a lot of them with 10+ years.  Any way you shake it, people are depressed.  I had never seen my OSJ so visibly shaken as he was last week (31 years in the advising business).  But you know what?  I'm willing to bet that the world economy doesn't grind to a halt.  I may have misinterpreted your attack on Ice for being inexperienced, but it seemed that you were suggesting that because of the way the elders are responding to this situation, that things are different this time.  You know the story from there though...

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

footsoldier wrote:
44 years in the business in itself only illustrates one thing to me...the guy is a good salesman.  Aside from that, he's just an old guy that's discouraged.  44 years doesn't automatically make him smart, or wise (nor does it make him stupid or unwise). 
 
ice (you haven't earned the right to have your surname capitalized)-
 
You are a fool.
 
You're such a jealous little man methinks.
 
Or at least your responses are one of a very young inexperienced adviser.
 
How so?
 
Maybe even you could learn from a 44 year vet in our biz.
 
I'm sure there are plenty of things I could learn...just not about economics or portfolio management.  Or at least that's unlikely. 
 
You would have to get out of the way and I doubt your ego would let you.
 
You mistake confidence for ego.  Or maybe you don't.  I don't know.  Maybe it is ego...either way, I don't particularly care.
 
Why don't you spend a little more time in the biz,
 
Oh I plan on it...this is the easiest money I've ever made in my life. 
 
and maybe a little less time on these forums.
 
Nah, I like them.  Plus, I absorb a lot here - oh shit, did I admit I don't know everything about everything?  Crap. 
 
Who knows you might actually be humbled and learn something.  
 
Not from you.  I learn from many people on here on a daily basis...that's why I come here.  You just aren't one of them. 
 
 
LOL.  You really make me laugh sometimes.  Well, OK, most times. 
 
 

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

Borker Boy wrote:Come on now, foot, that's the beauty of a fee-based business. 
 
Stick the $$ into a model portfolio of mutual funds with auto-rebalancing and then hit your favorite forums all day and all night.
 
Ice has it figured out.
 
My dumb a$$, however, has to start every month looking for new cash to shovel into A shares.
 

 
My fee-based accounts have lower total expenses INCLUDING my fee than your American funds do @ NAV. 
 
I call my A & B clients monthly - and I played 108 holes of golf this week...I'm sorry you aren't more efficient with your time. 
 
PS - I still suck @ golf though.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-08

Ice, you profess to be all knowing in the investment arena so I won't advice you there.
For your golf game - take a lesson!

footsoldier's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-30

this is the easiest money I've ever made in my life
 
Ice-
 
Congrats on making it this far. I'll lay odds you are out of here in less than 5 years. No way any clients with a brain would want you for an advisor.
 
Maybe you should consider running for politics. Since you know everything about portfolio management why don't you consider a position on Wall Street. The firms need more sanctimonius pricks like you. Or better yet just join their country club. Might improve your game...but it could damage what little matter is between your ears.
 
I have been on these forums for two years. My time here is dwindling....there is no substance any longer just ego gratification.

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