Technology at EJ

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Effay's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-11

When I came over to EJ from another firm, which is now gone, we were in the stone age technology-wise. I was just analyzing our new Morningstar platform and realized all I can do is compare funds and get star rankings. Not like I can sort the universe of funds and locate the best performers compared to a relative index or do my own, true due diligence for my clients...!
It strikes me that the goal of the management at this firm may very well be to have 20,000 "thirty someting" reps all happy as heck to drink the kool aid and make 100k per year. And sell lots of banking products to increase fee income for the GPs....!
Nuff said. Needed to blow off some steam. Time to hear comments from inside and outside.
Thanks!!
 
((previous post) I have been at EJ for 7 years now, and have rejected the kool aid....as the firm rushes hell bent to grow, less is being done for branches by HQ, and I pay 60% of what I make for diminishing service, some of which I never use. The financial assessment software is difficult to use.
I learned the hard way to not waste my time doing stuff for my region. T
Then, when you read the firm k-1, you see that, yes, the limited partners are paid first from revenues, but the general partners are allocated $3 for every $1 to the LPs.
Hmmm...I have talked to RJ, LPL, and FSC, and received some impressive stuff from Commonwealth. I want to move to a fee based practice, and EJ is finally coming out with a platform based on the AG Edwards program...My estimates are that I would make approx a 60% payout leaving, but need "pay my own expenses" (Jones has always told us they pay for staff, but frankly I have never figured that one out since staff pay is expensed on my P&L!).
I have about 60mn under care, and gross about 300.
 
**If y'all were going to start over, and go indy, where would you go and why?
Thanks, in advance, for your feedback!!

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Ahhh...I see light breaking from the dark clouds....LPL was my choice...never looked anyplace else...You can pm me if you want to discuss further...Product choice, great payouts, technology, compliance....Have no idea what RJ or Commonwealth has to offer..

Morphius's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-21

How did you figure you would get a 60% payout with about $300K production?  Most of the IBDs you mention would offer payouts in the 90%+ range.  Expenses would of course need to be covered still.

lambda's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-20

He estimates 60% IF he went indy.  Its not tied to the $300K in gross he is actually doing nowat EJ.  That means he nets $120K (40%), right?

Morphius's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-21

My question stands - where does the 60% Indy payout figure come from?

Dark Knight's picture
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Joined: 2008-01-30

He's likely refering to net, net payout.  After all expeses.

wired's picture
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Joined: 2007-09-16

I was at EDJ for three years. I hit location gain and profitability after 7 month of production. Three years in the wife and I had a kid and I went to get health insurance from edj and realized that Jones was not really a pro-family company. I left in 2000 grossing 250K to go to a wire.   I learned a great deal in my 7 years at a wire and left last year to go to RJ. I have moved 75% of my assets so far. Anyway, enough about me. I looked at LPL, Common Wealth, First Allied and Finet (Wachovia). I turned down $700k from a couple of wires. I chose RJ. I liked and like my contact with top management.   The research is better than what I had at my wire. I almost went to Finet but did not like that they kept the 12b-1's from wrap accounts. LPL had a better payout but seemed to offer a lot less support than I get from RJ. First Allied didn't answer my questions. Common had great marketing materials but offered no transition assistance and seemed focused on mutual funds and had no proprietary research. FYI, My wire has not sued me for leaving. EDJ sued me and was bot off by the wire. If you leave EDJ be sure to take your cost basis info with you because they are the only firm I know of that does not send cost basis info to the receiving firm of an ACAT. Hope this helps...

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Or when you leave Edward Jones you request cost basis from your old office and make them do the work!

Effay's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-11

Net 60 after expenses. sorry. Most IBDs calculate a very low salary for your office administrator.

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

Effay wrote:Net 60 after expenses. sorry. Most IBDs calculate a very low salary for your office administrator.
 
 
Is this a statement for or against his assertion? Please explain further.

rankstocks's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-10

Just got my total annual compensation booklet from Jones.  58% total payout.  not bad.  Factor in postage, phone, and misc. out of pocket, and I'm still 55%.  How can you be at 40% if you are grossing over 300k?  I don't really understand.  With the 5%+ profit sharing, quarterly bonuses, LP payout, and winning the trips, how can you be that low?

GoneIndy02's picture
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Joined: 2008-03-05

also call Ameritas in Lincoln NE.  I know several reps woth them that are happy.  Woodbury as well, i think they are headquartered in MN.
Nice try Rankstocks, not nuyin it.
 

GoneIndy02's picture
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Joined: 2008-03-05

sorry, "noy Buyin it"

new_indy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-28

Here's what I really don't get about the Jone's people.  Since most of their book is MFD's and they love their trails, they could go indy and make up to 80+% just off the trails.  It seems to me that all the other stuff is just irrelevant.  Some of those guys pull 10K+ gross off the trails, I would rather see a check for 8+k then 4+k anyday.  That would pay for a boatload of computers, office space, assistant, etc...
 
So my question becomes..."have they never done the math?"
 
Stating that, I really really want them to stay at Jones and stay out of my way.

WestH's picture
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Joined: 2008-03-29


Effay:
 
I  WAS in the exact position you're in.  (I've copied & paste the below from my previous posts):
Edward Jones is an excellent firm.  I truly appreciates them giving me an opportunity to be hired, train, & work for them.  But after 7 yrs at Jones, I started looking around, wondering why Jones only does meetings w/ just other Jones reps & never mix w/ other reps.  When I got passed over for my LP, when compliance started to tell me how to run my business from 2,000 miles away & to tell me that I can't sell other funds besides the 7 preferred (esp when we have several other non-preferreds which are much more recognizable in our city).  If I'm in a little bitty town (a Jones town), & if I'm  & the bank is the only choice in town, then I'm all set.  But I'm in a big city, so the Jones model doesn't fit in very well.  At the time, I didn't mind the 40% payout that much, but what really bothers me is that I get back even a fraction of the 60% that I send to Jones.  With fast DSL internet coming on, why are we still using satelites?  & why are we being charged over $2000 a month for technology (computers, printers, etc.), when you can buy a couple of Dell computers for a few hundred that'll last a while.  I was contributing a lot of time & effort to Jones to recruit new brokers for Jones' "healthy growth" initiative, but was really bothered that they don't spend enough on the "healthy retention" aspect of it.  What really got me thinking & moving was the thought that if I work for Jones another 20 yrs, & when I retire, & if one of my kids don't take over the business, I just have to "Goodknight" my office assets over to a new Jones broker & walk away empty handed.  That was then, I don't know if they have a good transition program now.  But at least LPL is now partnered w/ FP Transitions to sell your book when you retire.
At the time, I was producing $250 to $300K, w/ assets of about $40 Mil.  Doing about 40% MF & 40% VA, & other stuff mixed in to qualify for my diversification trips.   Taking home $100K net or so.
Now after 9 yrs at LPL, I gross $600+, net high $500's, 89.4% payout (93% payout minus BS charges).  Assets about $90 Mil.  40% MF, 40% VA, 15% REITs.  Very little fee based business, but at least I can give my clients an option & also take care of their no-load funds. 
For the 7% or so I send to LPL, I think I'm getting of it back in the Compliance oversight, the 2 free trips they send to: the summer regional meeting in SD, or Chicago this yr, & the Master's trip for me & my wife to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, last few yrs, Phoenix this yr, & Hawaii next yr (my wife don't care how much I make, just as long as we go on those damn trips), the technical support, & the better home office service.  Oh, the $150K free stock bonus plan is great too.
 
The biggest surprise after moving over to the dark side at LPL was the VA business that I done at Jones, on a $100K order, I get 40% of 4.75% gross (net $1740).  The exact same VA contract thru LPL now pays 8% w/o trail, or 7% gross w/ trail.  So 93% payout of 7% is $6510 net.  Always wondered where the difference between 7 & 4.75 goes to.  That was before Jones' A share Annuities came out.
 
When I first moved over to LPL from Jones in the late 90's, the service was so much better.  Calls to Everyone (100%) in the San Diego & Boston home office were super & were so nice, all my questions got answered, or all calls returned promptly.  They totally understands that they're 100% overhead & they work for us out here in the field & appreciates our business, not the other way around like back at Jones, no attitude like like a Limited or General partner here at Jones in St Louis & you're just a pee-on out there in the field.   LPL's focus then was 100% to/for the reps. 
 
It took me 2 - 3 yrs to make the move from Jones.  I flew out to San Diego to meet w/ LPL, & also interviewed w/ IM&R (Raymond James then) in Tampa, great firm, but also worried about their multiple company holdings, in which the independent advisor channel is just one of the many numerous companies that Raymond James owns, so wasn't convinced that IM&R independent reps was their top priority.  & also, someone gotta pay for that Raymond James stadium name, just like Jones now.  So not to bash Raymond James (or IM&R then), they're a great company, but wasn't for me, at that time. 
 
I'm still very satisfied w/ LPL, love the great payout, the total freedom to conduct my business w/out their interference, the great technology, & the still great service (although has a few small glitches lately), luckily I still do a lot of my business at the MF, VA & REIT firms, & not held at LPL.  Love the self clearing aspect.  But at every chance they get, at least LPL management always thanks me for my business, since I guess they know that they work for me & that I can pack up & leave them for any other Indy B/D at any time.  So if I ever get pissed & decides to leave, guess this would be my new dream B/D:

- totally independent, no wire house
- high payout: 90% +
- strict compliance
- all funds, VA's, all companies avail, no limited preferred group to choose from
- smaller, more family culture
- great technology
- great trips
- & sends me Birthday cards & anniversary reminder cards...
 
The below is the worksheet I use to compare expenses before I made the move:
These #'s are over 10 yrs old, so use your own current #'s.  Some don't even apply now.  Also you know which ones Jones pays fully or half for. 
But after subtracting my 93% gross/  89% net, I still make high 70% net/net & everything is tax deductible as a  business expense.

Monthly Office Expenses
<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 
                                      EDJ          LPL
 
Assistant salary          2750          2500
Office lease                 1400    
Utilities:       Electric               130
Telephone          220                       47
Long distance/800#   30                    30
Internet access     30                         30
Cellular phone      30                         30
 
Branch Office fees
Rep contract fees                               125
Bonding fees                                      10
Branch plan                                        15
Branch folio                                       50
Branch plus                                        50
Quote screen, Yahoo                          10
                   Morningstar            15                         15
S & P                                                25
Value Line               20                       20
SIPC fee                                            20
NASD fee                                          22     
Other fees (state fees, NASD Renewal, compliance inspection)      40                         68
 
Insurance:    Medical                                              257                       248
                   E & O                                                83                         150
                   Office - Hartford                                 42                         42
 
Advertising                                                            200                       250
Postage                                                                 100                       166
Supplies, Other Office Expenses                            50                         100
                                                                             ================
                            
TOTAL               _____ / Month       
                                                                           ______/ Yr   
 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

GoneIndy02 wrote:
also call Ameritas in Lincoln NE.  I know several reps woth them that are happy.  Woodbury as well, i think they are headquartered in MN.
Nice try Rankstocks, not nuyin it.
 
I got mine recently too.  My bonuses aren't going to be as large as rank's, but I was in the 55% payout range also.  I'm not sure I understand why you're not buying it. 
 
 

CIBforeveryone's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-12

new_indy wrote:Here's what I really don't get about the Jone's people.  Since most of their book is MFD's and they love their trails, they could go indy and make up to 80+% just off the trails.  It seems to me that all the other stuff is just irrelevant.  Some of those guys pull 10K+ gross off the trails, I would rather see a check for 8+k then 4+k anyday.  That would pay for a boatload of computers, office space, assistant, etc...
 
So my question becomes..."have they never done the math?"
 
Stating that, I really really want them to stay at Jones and stay out of my way.
 
If you are a vet, you move 80% of the book...8k/mo gross trails=6400/mo cash flow to cover expenses. (Not to mention systematic investments)
 
If that advisor sees the light and realizes the rest of the industry is using advisory fees, all he/she needs to do is bring in 15 million new $, charge 1%, and they are grossing another 150k/yr, netting about 120k/yr profit (10k/net/mo) when they walk in the door instead of 8000/mo. Meanwhile their commission clients are still probably producing around 10k/mo gross on top of trails (8000/mo profit). From that point on the curve gets very steep on the up-side.
 
It really is that simple, and this assumes only 80% moves. I moved 90%.
 
CIB
 
 
 

Effay's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-11

Thanks, WestH for the detalied reply!
That info is very useful.
 
One question: can you guys (Indies) really get by with a 30k assistant? Maybe I've been spoiled, but I have a registered assistant, and pay her over 50k. Cost of living here is quite high.
I see it this way: any admin tasks a branch administrator does not do have to be done by me or the back office.
Frankly, I want to sell and service the investments themselves, not do the related, myriad tasks a good "BOA" does.
Another question: how hard did EJ come after you? I just spoke with one of the guard dogs at HQ, and she said they can - and do - still get TROs in Cali.
Any and all feed back is greatly appreciated!
 
 
 
 
 

Morphius's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-21

Effay wrote:Another question: how hard did EJ come after you? I just spoke with one of the guard dogs at HQ, and she said they can - and do - still get TROs in Cali.

Any and all feed back is greatly appreciated!First and most importantly, be very careful about what questions you ask of anyone at EJ that have ANYTHING to do with brokers leaving.  You can very easily send up clear red flags that could lead to more serious problems for you.  Tread very carefully here.  If you are seriously considering leaving, hire an attorney experienced in this industry right away.  They will explain all the risks, including TROs and what you can and cannot say or do. 

spikedkoolaid's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-20

Ok people,  Here's the real deal...
Listen to your transition people and you won't have any problem with TRO's in Cali...
 
The Net/Net/Net question is one that always boggles my mind when it comes to Jones versus Indy.
 
Let's say you are in the 55% Net program at Jones...You gross $500k...you get a W-2 with $200,000 on it!  Then you file your taxes and your tax guy/girl says, all of your deductions phase out because you bump up against the AMT.  You pay uncle Sam $40,000 so now your Net/Net/Net percentage is more like 40%.
 
Indy (I'm at LPL).
I grossed $650,000 last year.  I paid my assistants, phone, rent, etc.  Then I paid payroll taxes, then I contributed to my wife's 401k, my 401k, my profit sharing 25% of payroll, and paid my kids $4000/each so that they could make a roth contribution.  I got to deduct my health insurance premiums (Can't do that at Jones).
 
SAVED/INVESTED $70,000 last year.  I can tell you that at Jones I NEVER even dreamed of saving $70,000, I could barely scrape enough together to contribute to my 401k. 
 
It's not how much you make it's how much you save....At Jones you can't save enough for the amount of income you are producing...and top of that if you have LP at Jones you get a K-1 that is phantom income that you have to pay more tax on!!!!!

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Wow Spike..why would you have ever left Jones.  I bet with your little bitty payout, you couldn't afford to take your wife and kids on a vacation...sorry to hear that.  I can tell by your post , your sad, regretful, suicidal, broke, have 4(maybe 5) clients and more than likely a pathetic underperformer at Jones.  This is the only way you could be in your miserable state was by "not making it" at the mothership. 
 After reading your post, I've decided to evaluate a possible move back to the green machine, lucky I still have my Doug Hill Framed picture.  Thanks for making my decision easier....TO EVERYONE ELSE>>FOR THE LAST TIME......................Do             the       math.

spikedkoolaid's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-20

The Math is after taxes people! 

Maxstud's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-29

spikedkoolaid wrote:  I got to deduct my health insurance premiums (Can't do that at Jones).
 
 
That line is so frikin stupid it almost makes anything else you have to say irrelevent.

lambda's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-20

Does Jones offer Medical?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Spears - what's up with all the bashing recently?  Slow time for you?  Need something to do?  You seem to be back with a vengance.  Not that anyone is listenting to your ranting.   
 
 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

lambda wrote:Does Jones offer Medical?
 
Yes. 

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Yeah...as my assistant remarked this morning.."where were all these people when we were at Jones"...again Spiff...you don't know what you don't know....Now that I think about it ...I do have more free time....Shouldn't you be signing in for the Tuesday Night Call Session...

spikedkoolaid's picture
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Joined: 2006-04-20

Sorry, I got a credit for my health insurance premiums of $10,000.  I was $10,000 at Jones and getting no type of tax benefit.  The Math is simple
Own and Run your own Business and save a lot of money
W-2 Employee, phase out, don't get deductions, work for someone else...
 
I drank the kool-aid when I was there...I still remember John Bachman saying at a Breakfast meeting when I asked him about fee-based business, "If you are planning on building fee-based business, then you shouldn't do it at Edward Jones."  He went on with the mantra of why fee-based doesn't make sense, etc.  That is when I made my decision to leave. 

donatello's picture
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Joined: 2007-12-22

You know Spiff, When bspears is calm and going easy on Jones, you are perfectly happy with him. The minute he tells the truth....it's that he's got the vengence talk going. Make up your mind.
I don't work Indy, I am free from Jones, and I still save like Spiked. I go on 4-6 trips a year--have since I left. I may go indy someday (5-7 years from now), but this was the right move for me a couple of years back. I'm debt free, making good money, treat my clients like they are my livelihood and important, and spend a lot of time with my family and friends.
You shouldn't stay with Jones any longer than you have to (sounds like you don't have the assets you need yet). Can you still contribute to a Roth?
I'm listening to spears---so are others. You should too....

Maxstud's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-29

spikedkoolaid wrote:Sorry, I got a credit for my health insurance premiums of $10,000.  I was $10,000 at Jones and getting no type of tax benefit.  /QUOTE]Wrong again dumbass.

Maxstud's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-29

Forgot to add, if spiked figures out the real answer he'll disappear and not own up to a stupid fk'n mistake or never figure it out and disappear.  Either way he'll pop up in 2 months with another incredible advantage to his business that NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD OF EXCEPT FOR HIM AND HIS ACCOUNTANT. Fk'n Ge knee ass.  Figure that last on out you idiot.BTW ask your cpa about how you might of had a tax advantage with edj health insurance, when he gets done laughing at you he might have enough breath left to fill you in.I hear crickets.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Hey Max, I didn't get a credit for my health insurance either!!!  And another thing, my w-2 listed my income $10000 less than my last pay stub!!!!  What is going on!!!!  Sorry Max, thought SKO would need some help.

Maxstud's picture
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Primo wrote:Hey Max, I didn't get a credit for my health insurance either!!!  And another thing, my w-2 listed my income $10000 less than my last pay stub!!!!  What is going on!!!!  Sorry Max, thought SKO would need some help.No Fkn idea dumbass, maybe you ought to figure it out and call HR.  Maybe because you get pre tax deductions?  Just a guess but I'm not here to try and help idoits, so I'm just throwing it out there.

Maxstud's picture
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Primo wrote:Hey Max, I didn't get a credit for my health insurance either!!!  Sorry missed this part, you didn't get credit?  Either you can't read your pay stub or you didn't get a credit, either way it proves your a dumbass.

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Either my sarcasm is not obvious enough or you should read more carefully.  A couple of posts back SKO said he did not get a tax credit for premiums paid at Jones.  This is  because health premiums come out pre-tax as you know, therefore explaining the difference from paystub to w-2.  Does that make it more clear?  Or are you going to the"dumbass" insult again, resulting in me using the "sticks and stones" defense.  In the future, I will attempt to be far more obvious in my posts when I agree with you.

troll's picture
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Maxstud wrote: Primo wrote:Hey Max, I didn't get a credit for my health insurance either!!!  And another thing, my w-2 listed my income $10000 less than my last pay stub!!!!  What is going on!!!!  Sorry Max, thought SKO would need some help.No Fkn idea dumbass, maybe you ought to figure it out and call HR.  Maybe because you get pre tax deductions? I wonder if that is what I was implying??  Hmmm, if premiums are taken out pre-tax, would that be better than getting a credit at year end??  Would the result be the same??  Would it be more beneficial to have premiums taken out pre-tax instead of allowing the govt to use it all year and get it back??  Would this explain a difference in W-2 income and last paystub??  Would this information make SKO's  statement look stupid??  Was I agreeing with you?? Just a guess but I'm not here to try and help idoits, so I'm just throwing it out there.

noggin's picture
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Primo wrote:Maxstud wrote: Primo wrote:Hey Max, I didn't get a credit for my health insurance either!!!  And another thing, my w-2 listed my income $10000 less than my last pay stub!!!!  What is going on!!!!  Sorry Max, thought SKO would need some help.No Fkn idea dumbass, maybe you ought to figure it out and call HR.  Maybe because you get pre tax deductions? I wonder if that is what I was implying??  Hmmm, if premiums are taken out pre-tax, would that be better than getting a credit at year end??  Would the result be the same??  Would it be more beneficial to have premiums taken out pre-tax instead of allowing the govt to use it all year and get it back??  Would this explain a difference in W-2 income and last paystub??  Would this information make SKO's  statement look stupid??  Was I agreeing with you?? Just a guess but I'm not here to try and help idoits, so I'm just throwing it out there.
As an employee at Jones you are certainly getting the benefit of that money being pretax. As an independent that amount comes directly off of my income however as an independent businessowner I am NOT subject to the 2% floor on miscellaneous  business expenses. At the 100K AGI, that is a 2000 dollar difference between employee and businessowner.

rankstocks's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-10

spiked,
    I hate to burst your bubble, but with maxing out my HSA at around 6k pretax, profit sharing at around 13k last year pretax, and my 401k at $15,500, I saved around 34k pretax last year, not as much as might be available indy, but more than you suggest.  We also have the monthly business expense program which allows deductions that can not be added back to calculate AMT and making my business expenses not subject to the 2% gross income misc. deductions.
    So when I say net/net/net 55%, I really mean it.  Why is that so hard to believe?

spikedkoolaid's picture
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I'm sorry, when I was at Jones they made me pay for my health benefits $1000/month.  Was it pre-tax?  Has something changed? 
 
Rank-you are one of the few who has achieved savings to the max.  The California Crew does not have a Business Expense Plan anymore...By the way, I'm getting a check for $20,000 from EDJ Class Action for having to pay for expenses that should've been paid by my employer EDJ.
 
Last Year-
$650,000 Gross
$70,000 401k's, Profit Sharing, Roths
$125,000 Assistant, Rent, Phone, Etc
$165,000 Payroll to Me
$14,000 Payroll Taxes
$12,000 Income Taxes
 
I'm glad that you finally agree, Rank, that Indy is a better Net/Net/Net.  You are an employee and will always be an employee until you choose to leave the mothership! 

WestH's picture
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Joined: 2008-03-29

Effay:
You asked: " how hard did EJ come after you? I just spoke with one of the guard dogs at HQ, and she said they can - and do - still get TROs in Cali. "
 
Well, it all depends on if you took over an established office w/ clients & assets, or did you start your office from scratch.  I started mine from scratch, so 99% of my clients did business w/ me, since I'm in a big city, & most clients didn't know who Edward Jones was anyways.  Some of them even called me Ed, or Eddie, or A. G. Ed...
When I left 9 yrs ago, Jones sent 2 form letters from the legal dept, threatening this & that.  But since I worked at Jones for 7 yrs, way past the 2 yr mark, no repayment of anything.  I faxed the letters to LPL legal dept & they laughed it off, saying don't worry about it, just form letters Jones sends out to scare ya.  Still much less threatening than the ones from Merrill, or other wire houses that Jones poaches on as part their own "healthy growth" campaign.
No problems w/ TROs here.

Maxstud's picture
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Joined: 2005-12-29

Primo wrote:Either my sarcasm is not obvious enough or you should read more carefully.  A couple of posts back SKO said he did not get a tax credit for premiums paid at Jones.  This is  because health premiums come out pre-tax as you know, therefore explaining the difference from paystub to w-2.  Does that make it more clear?  Or are you going to the"dumbass" insult again, resulting in me using the "sticks and stones" defense.  In the future, I will attempt to be far more obvious in my posts when I agree with you.Sorry, didn't get the sarcasm, I didn't read the whole thread.

Maxstud's picture
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spikedkoolaid wrote:I'm sorry, when I was at Jones they made me pay for my health benefits $1000/month.  Was it pre-tax?  Has something changed?

No idea if it has changed at jones since before 2005, but I have been an EMPLOYEE,  most of my life and I have been paying health insurance pretax for about 20 or so years.  So I would venture to guess so has the EMPLOYEES at jones.
spikedkoolaid wrote: 
  You are an employee and will always be an employee until you choose to leave the mothership!  No shit Sherlock, your business acumen is incredible, are you also helping Bill Gates and Warren Buffet with business building ideas????

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

What a wonderful career we have!
 
Just think about it...
 
1. Our entrance/licensing requirements are an absolute joke.
 
2. The majority of those in our field have little to no education beyond high school.
 
3. The vast majority of us are nothing more than middlemen between our clients and mutual
fund companies, i.e., few, if any of us, are even remotely qualified to "manage" money.
 
4. With auto-rebalancing and asset allocation funds, we don't have to look at our clients' accounts more often than semi-annually
 
5. We spend less time actually working than any other profession I can think of.
 
6. We get to puff out our chests and believe that we are actually responsible for making money for our clients.
 
All the while, we get paid more than most lawyers and CPAs who are highly educated, meet extremely strict entrance and licensing requirements and work 80 hours per week.
 
Consider yourselves blessed, guys!

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

I do!
 
...although I exceed your stated minimums by juat a tad and feel like I work plenty hard, particularly in the first 3rd of the year.
 
BTW, how's the tractor salesman doing these days?

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

Not good. Not good at all.

freeman12's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-23

A few more points about going Indy vs staying at Jones.
1. The Jones FA pays an unusually higher rate on thier health insurance. Why? As stated by home office: to subsidize the BOA and home office employees. When I went Indy I dropped my costs by 30% with the same insurance company and made it a business write off.
2. When you look at the K1 - Make sure to pay attention to the pay increases the top 7 Jones leaders had right after they agreed to pay for legal settlements over the last several years. A few years ago, Doug Hills increase year over year was exactly what he had to pay for the settlement. Its still that way today. As a LP you dont really have ownership control over what happens to your revenue dollars.
3.A truly great FA at Jones will appreciate this. Yes it is great to be Indy and have more control but here is the difference. Working together as part of a respected team. Once I went Indy, I had numerous comments from Attornesy, CPA's and from my top clients that they liked what I was doing. They were confident in sending referals to me but hadnt been confident that Jones could really help the wealthy. Despite the surveys, they knew that I lacked product and support to handle the wealthy. Jones couldnt handle real estate in their trust management. In fact, the first order of business was to sell it off.
4. I ran the numbers on LP vs what my book of business would be worth. If you are going to goodknight then go Indy and hire your own people. The future value of the business greatly overwhelms what an LP could be worht. But remember, most Jonesers are not business owners. They were school teachers etc. They wont understand what it means or why you would want to have ownership and control of the whole thing.
Go Indy, dont look back, and as happened to me, be prepared to see others follow you when they see the light.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Thanks for the advice and the truly enlightening post.  I've never heard any of that before.  I'll take it all under advisement. 
 
A couple of points:  First, Jones Trust Company can handle real estate.  They hire a third party property manager to take care of the property.  Second, nobody has ever said that LP was the same as owning the book.  It's not even close to the same thing.  It's like owning shares of MCD vs owning an MCD franchise.  For you to use that as one of the justifications of going indy was just plain dumb.  I don't fault you for going indy, just don't compare apples to firetrucks and call it a good comparison.  

Broker24's picture
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Joined: 2006-10-12

Freeman, you're right on most points (the Trust dept issue is a strange thing to highlight, but I guess we all have our hot buttons).  Fact is, Jones is no different than most wirehouse and regional brokerages.  Our payout is what it is, the bonuses are what they are, and the ^%#$ that happens behind the scenes is not unlike most other major firms (in our industry and others).  They take care of the select few.  When a senior exec gets a fine or some other type of compensation hit, they take care of them somehow.  I don't exactly blame them.  That's just business.  When Doug Hill was fined or whatever, he did what he was doing with the blessing of the firm.  He was just the fall guy, since he was in charge.  So they took care of him.  I think it would have been crappier if they didn't.  Just like the other financial execs that get $20mm sendoff packages when they are fired because their firm just wrote off $20B.  And I don't think they owe it to all 30,000 employees to explain every little move they make.
 
Spiff hit the nail on the head.  Comparing Jones or ML or SB shares to being Indy is like comparing being a MCD common stock owner to owning one little MCD shop.  Being an advisor at a firm vs. indy is like comparing being a MCD General Manager to the owner of a MCD shop.  I am just using a simple analogy, but it should get the point across.  It's just not the same.  Not everyone WANTS to own the shop.  Some of them just want to manage it.

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

I just like flippin' hamburgers.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-31

No sense in starting a new thread for more or less the same re-hash, but I was curious how many of you on the inside knew about this one...
 
http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080421/REG/241311594/1009/TOC
 
This John Lindsey character sounds like a real prick.

lambda's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-20

Stuff like that happens everyday despite the company.

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