Retention....please do not hijack.

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duster10's picture
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So as far as we (WS) know, Danny and David are taking their retention proposal to WFC this monday, Dec 1st.  WFC will then digest the plan, and we hope to hear something by mid Dec.  Anybody hearing the same thing or something different?? (Ferris, I clearly stole your "hijack" line, hope you don't mind).

duster10's picture
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Ferris, it will only be a matter of time before some of these self appointed super-brokers would be on here telling you that while you are worried about retention, and looking up definitions to the word hijack, they are networking and eating Thanksgiving dinner with your clients.

Vet20's picture
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Well WFC better make up their minds soon, becuase I'm about a half an inch away from signing on with another firm...just trying to hold out a smidge longer to find out about a retention...I hope WFC takes this seriously....
Even if 10,000 WB advisors leave, WFC would still be left with 4,600 more advisors than they have now...maybe that's what they're thinking...

fritz's picture
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Vet20 wrote:Well WFC better make up their minds soon, becuase I'm about a half an inch away from signing on with another firm...just trying to hold out a smidge longer to find out about a retention...I hope WFC takes this seriously....
Even if 10,000 WB advisors leave, WFC would still be left with 4,600 more advisors than they have now...maybe that's what they're thinking...

 

troll's picture
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zzzzzzz

skbroker's picture
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please no more speculation about the retention.  1/2 of merrill? really?  were they on the committee.  I doubt it.  they'll announce when they announce and that we can all move on with our insecurity.   

YTB's picture
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Vet20 wrote:Well WFC better make up their minds soon, becuase I'm about a half an inch away from signing on with another firm...just trying to hold out a smidge longer to find out about a retention...I hope WFC takes this seriously....
Even if 10,000 WB advisors leave, WFC would still be left with 4,600 more advisors than they have now...maybe that's what they're thinking...

 
You should probably just make the move and not wait. Think about it: What would it take from WFC to make you want to stick around?
 
Having said that, you have to know that they aren't going to deliver. They have a decent bank brokerage program. Their bread and butter is the bank. They develop from there. I wouldn't say it'll be half of what ML got, but I wouldn't expect anything more. Take your deal now before the offerer reduces it based on WFC's proposal.

Sell High's picture
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In reply to YTB..Here's one of your previous posts from another forum:"So
I start my new position on a bank platform in a few weeks. I'll
start/finish my training and be in the branch producing and am pretty
excited. Everything is falling into place but since this is my first
time on my own, I am going to have to settle on a few packaged product
families for clients that aren't interested in traditional wrap
accounts of individual positions......"So, apparently you're real new but out here trying to convince everyone you have the inside line on what retention will be and encouraging everyone to take a deal.    Well, I've apparently been around a bit longer.  This is an asset and relationship business and transitions from one to another companies kill both.  A single million dollar account loss at 1.5 percent net production is $15,000 a year gone for good.  That's $150,000 or more over 10 years and that's just 1 account!My opinion is the retention will be less than the AGE deal and more than ML's.  The hangup is probably what to pay the already retention rich AGE brokers.  I can understand the issue because AGE brokers were already less than 1 year ago.  Also, WFC/WB probably want to announce the name of the new combined firm and a number of  other things at the same time and that's why its taking so long.  They usually announce a series of meetings with new management, new products that are available, and so on.  I'm sure it takes a bit to set all that up.  I estimate a couple of more weeks and we'll hear.    

BukiRob2's picture
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Guys, the longer this goes without word from management the more likely we are to get screwed. UBS STARTING point is 250% Smith Barney and MS arent that far behind on deals (just talked to a recruiter on Wednesday so those are the deals NOW)

WS isn't MER and we do not have that kind of culture. MER was counting on there brokers being good little soldiers and "taking it like a man," many did. WS culture is much more that of the regional as opposed to a wire house mentality. WS will have guys leaving in droves if the retention package is as bad as MER's

That said, WFC may not care. Personally, that would be stupid since a third of WS earnings came from brokerage But, hey what's a billion dollars in profit revenue?

nestegg's picture
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BukiRob2 wrote:Guys, the longer this goes without word from management the more likely we are to get screwed. UBS STARTING point is 250% Smith Barney and MS arent that far behind on deals (just talked to a recruiter on Wednesday so those are the deals NOW)

WS isn't MER and we do not have that kind of culture. MER was counting on there brokers being good little soldiers and "taking it like a man," many did. WS culture is much more that of the regional as opposed to a wire house mentality. WS will have guys leaving in droves if the retention package is as bad as MER's

That said, WFC may not care. Personally, that would be stupid since a third of WS earnings came from brokerage But, hey what's a billion dollars in profit revenue?The longer they wait the more will leave....probably one of the top 5 in the WS side of the firm left last week...huge team...billions under mgmt...w/ Wachovia/First Union since the early 90's!Kurt Sylvia..you may have heard of him...listed regularly in the RR top 100 advisors in America...I think there was only 1 WS advisor listed higher than him in last years edition.That has got to hurt...I expect people like me a Legacy AGE FC...to want to leave after dealing w the WS nightmare, but when legacy WS guys are jumping to...you know it is getting bad!

Joebroker's picture
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what firm did he go to?

Hydeho's picture
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nestegg wrote:
BukiRob2 wrote:Guys, the longer this goes without word from management the more likely we are to get screwed. UBS STARTING point is 250% Smith Barney and MS arent that far behind on deals (just talked to a recruiter on Wednesday so those are the deals NOW)

WS isn't MER and we do not have that kind of culture. MER was counting on there brokers being good little soldiers and "taking it like a man," many did. WS culture is much more that of the regional as opposed to a wire house mentality. WS will have guys leaving in droves if the retention package is as bad as MER's

That said, WFC may not care. Personally, that would be stupid since a third of WS earnings came from brokerage But, hey what's a billion dollars in profit revenue?The longer they wait the more will leave....probably one of the top 5 in the WS side of the firm left last week...huge team...billions under mgmt...w/ Wachovia/First Union since the early 90's!Kurt Sylvia..you may have heard of him...listed regularly in the RR top 100 advisors in America...I think there was only 1 WS advisor listed higher than him in last years edition.That has got to hurt...I expect people like me a Legacy AGE FC...to want to leave after dealing w the WS nightmare, but when legacy WS guys are jumping to...you know it is getting bad!Retention had nothing to do with them moving. More like drop in gross and the time was ripe with there trailing 12, plus the whole WB fu&* up. Large teams generally take 6-9 months to make a move.

JamesF's picture
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Kurt Sylvia went to UBS according to FINRA.

nestegg's picture
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Hydeho wrote:
nestegg wrote:
BukiRob2 wrote:Guys, the longer this goes without word from management the more likely we are to get screwed. UBS STARTING point is 250% Smith Barney and MS arent that far behind on deals (just talked to a recruiter on Wednesday so those are the deals NOW)

WS isn't MER and we do not have that kind of culture. MER was counting on there brokers being good little soldiers and "taking it like a man," many did. WS culture is much more that of the regional as opposed to a wire house mentality. WS will have guys leaving in droves if the retention package is as bad as MER's

That said, WFC may not care. Personally, that would be stupid since a third of WS earnings came from brokerage But, hey what's a billion dollars in profit revenue?The longer they wait the more will leave....probably one of the top 5 in the WS side of the firm left last week...huge team...billions under mgmt...w/ Wachovia/First Union since the early 90's!Kurt Sylvia..you may have heard of him...listed regularly in the RR top 100 advisors in America...I think there was only 1 WS advisor listed higher than him in last years edition.That has got to hurt...I expect people like me a Legacy AGE FC...to want to leave after dealing w the WS nightmare, but when legacy WS guys are jumping to...you know it is getting bad!Retention had nothing to do with them moving. More like drop in gross and the time was ripe with there trailing 12, plus the whole WB fu&* up. Large teams generally take 6-9 months to make a move.No doubt...the cluster Fuck that WS has become is making us all question things, retention or no retention....I know all the AGE guys feel that way, but when you see longterm BIG WS producers jumping...you know things are bad..and if retention sucks more will go...poor Danny...not lol

Gaddock's picture
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I heard that we were supposed to hear about the new name by Thanksgiving
 
The WACHOVIA name is poisen here in NC. I dont care about retention as much as just moving the F on. The idea that they already know everything and are just figuring the best way to make us drink coolaid is really starting to piss the rookie the f off.
 
A bit off topic but I hope not a hijack

duster10's picture
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without a doubt that is an effort to hijack.  Fortunately the Air Marshall shot you in the leg as you were running towards the cockpit.  Crisis averted.

troll's picture
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Don't worry be happy.

Exigent's picture
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Where did the FA go?

Vet20's picture
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How do I get in touch with a good recruiter?

fritz's picture
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WFC had about 15 Billion of Market Cap blown away today.  Have to think "broker retention" is about the last thing on their mind.  Maybe I am wrong but think if their is anything coming it has been cut by a large amount from what may have been tossed around 6 weeks ago??

duster10's picture
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while retention may not be at the front of the agenda for WFc management, I do think they will address it, and I do not think that the market fluctuation will have any real impact on what the outcome is. Due to the fact that any upfront money will be a forgivable bonus, they can tweak the accounting so that it is a hit over a couple of years, not to mention that I think this "stay" bonus will have more deferred comp in it than anything else.

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Meredith Whitney, an analyst at Oppenheimer, has been spot on in regards to the financial fiasco we are in now. Her #1 sell (as in dump) idea - Wells Fargo, due to the Wachovia merger.  I will be shocked if the Wells retention is much better than BAC/MER's.

fritz's picture
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Gordon Gekko wrote:Meredith Whitney, an analyst at Oppenheimer, has been spot on in regards to the financial fiasco we are in now. Her #1 sell (as in dump) idea - Wells Fargo, due to the Wachovia merger.  I will be shocked if the Wells retention is much better than BAC/MER's.
 
maybe she needs to read some of the posts on here saying that there has be some retention or over a billion dollars of brokerage revenue will walk??  With all that revenue the brokerage unit alone will propel WFC to all time highs Who even cares about all the bad loans they picked up??

Gordon Gekko's picture
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I assume with your smiley faces that you are being facetious.
 
I don't recall Meredith Whitney mentioning the WS acquisition as a bright spot for WFC. I do recall her saying the banks haven't seen their lows and they need to raise more capital. I don't know what this ends up meaning for a WS retention package.

skbroker's picture
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meredith is the same bitch that said wfc was a great buy at $20/share and now a sell a week later?  

Gordon Gekko's picture
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If you bought at 20 and sold today you made money. She has been at the forefront of calling this mess, much to the chagrin of bank bulls.

fritz's picture
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Gordon Gekko wrote:I assume with your smiley faces that you are being facetious.
 
I don't recall Meredith Whitney mentioning the WS acquisition as a bright spot for WFC. I do recall her saying the banks haven't seen their lows and they need to raise more capital. I don't know what this ends up meaning for a WS retention package.
 
Yes being sarcastic...think most analysts worse than worthless but she has been calling the shot pretty good.  Do agree from the way the bank stocks are acting that the bad news is nowhere near out on them.  Audited financials coming (for year end) and it will force these banks to fess up before the audits get done, could be real ugly. 

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Gotcha! I've been trained somehow to think long-only and anyone that comes up with a bear case is a fool. I think the stock market is a better predictor of future earnings (versus most analysts, like the Wachovia one who cautioned us about the volatility in GE a week or so ago - thanks for the head's up!) and the market is saying they will suck until further notice.

Sportsfreakbob's picture
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Whitney has been dead on. She panned all the banks today. She said Citi has the worst ahead of it, (can you freakin imagine?) and every bank in her universe will need a capital injection before this is over.She may end up being a one hit wonder like Granville, or Prechter, but right now she moves markets. I think a lot of todays damage was a result of her comments.

BukiRob's picture
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Yet again, this thread is being hijacked....
 
The silence is deafening.   I will say this though.... what happens with retention will be the single clearest signal with what Wells thinks of its brokerage.  It will make a crystal clear distinction in how and if there is going to be a major shift in the culture at WS.   WS has always been very good to its brokers when it came to mergers.   WS is, like everyone else, paying big money for newly aquired brokers.  If they offer a retention package similar to the MER deal, then they are clearly showing that they really do not care what you do in terms of staying or leaving.

troll's picture
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BukiRob wrote:Yet again, this thread is being hijacked....
 
The silence is deafening.   I will say this though.... what happens with retention will be the single clearest signal with what Wells thinks of its brokerage.  It will make a crystal clear distinction in how and if there is going to be a major shift in the culture at WS.   WS has always been very good to its brokers when it came to mergers.   WS is, like everyone else, paying big money for newly aquired brokers.  If they offer a retention package similar to the MER deal, then they are clearly showing that they really do not care what you do in terms of staying or leaving.
 
It is a bit surprising that there isn't much news with resepect to the securties side.

3rd ID's picture
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At this point, every day that goes by just reduces the chance of any retention. I hate to say it, but dont be surprised if its minimal and it is all deferred comp. T-12's are dropping by the day. Wonder what time frame they will use to measure if they even have a bonus. The strategy here is clear. Keep the FA in line and string em out as long as possible. The more time that passes the less likely guys will take deals or even be able to get one. The window of opp for deals has a  limited shelf life and exp date will be coming up within the 1st qtr. Then only the very very best will be able to command anything.

BukiRob2's picture
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3rd ID wrote: At this point, every day that goes by just reduces the chance of any retention. I hate to say it, but dont be surprised if its minimal and it is all deferred comp. T-12's are dropping by the day. Wonder what time frame they will use to measure if they even have a bonus. The strategy here is clear. Keep the FA in line and string em out as long as possible. The more time that passes the less likely guys will take deals or even be able to get one. The window of opp for deals has a  limited shelf life and exp date will be coming up within the 1st qtr. Then only the very very best will be able to command anything.

Just took a call yesterday the big deals are still there. WFC will have to announce something in the next 2 weeks. Deal closes 23rd of Dec. I can not see any set of circumstances where retention isn't announced before then. If it isn't announced before the deal is inked it means no retention period.

As I said before, what Wells does here makes it crystal clear how they view brokerage. It is a clear signal of what the future will look like. I for one have no interest in working for a firm that would as soon screw me and the client because they simply do not care and see it as a way to increase revenue for the bank.

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Every bank screws it brokers, it is a fact of life.  Banks are especially good at getting paid twice on every trade.  How much do you think the bank marks up syndicate cd's and structured products?  They take a cut, then they also take 60% of whatever our commission is.  When the dust settles, you are probably getting only a 20 - 25% payout of the real commissions.  I am betting the commissions they pay on "banking services", is a fraction what they pay to independent leasing firms and mortgage brokers that refer business to them. 
I would love to know what % of total revenue generated the broker actually gets paid.  Add up the postage and handling fees, the money market spreads, bond dept markups, account fees and every other fee a bank charges, I bet the real "payout" is 25% at best. 
 

Gordon Gekko's picture
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Hey BukiRob, switching over your U4 shuts down in about two weeks for the rest of the year. I'd say you are sticking into 2009 waiting for Danny Bucks. You keep saying over and over again that the silence is deafening. You might want to listen to what you are saying.

3rd ID's picture
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I dont know one FA (big producer or small) where the number one question on their minds is WHERE IS THE RETENTION???????????!!!!!!!!!!. Does mgt get this??? Its a damn distraction, thats for certain. 

conage's picture
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mnbondguy wrote:Every bank screws it brokers, it is a fact of life.  Banks are especially good at getting paid twice on every trade.  How much do you think the bank marks up syndicate cd's and structured products?  They take a cut, then they also take 60% of whatever our commission is.  When the dust settles, you are probably getting only a 20 - 25% payout of the real commissions.  I am betting the commissions they pay on "banking services", is a fraction what they pay to independent leasing firms and mortgage brokers that refer business to them. 
I would love to know what % of total revenue generated the broker actually gets paid.  Add up the postage and handling fees, the money market spreads, bond dept markups, account fees and every other fee a bank charges, I bet the real "payout" is 25% at best. 
 
This is a key point!  it's not just what your payout percentage is, it is what is the real gross commission, not what is shown to brokers. 
 
Makes me want to think RIA.

3rd ID's picture
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I imagine if we get paid say 4% for an annuity trade, then the bank is keeping 3 or 4% on top of that for the house. I;m not sure what the real commission rate is other than what we see. Obviously the % is significantly more. 

Vet20's picture
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A lot of annuity companies pay 6% or 7% gross if you do not take the trail option.  You are CORRECT.  The house keeps the difference.  A while back, the banks tried to go "product neutral" so rogue FA's would not be tempted to sell a higher paying annuity over another one that may be more suitable...  The problem is, the bank kept the difference (gladly) and nailed the FA.  Some banks put breakpoints in place even like mutual funds to discourage large annuity purchases....all in the name of compliance.

3rd ID's picture
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Anyone here get word of or hear about a conf call at Wach this Fri re retention?? I heard 3rd hand info an email was out in another region but I haven't seen it yet. Couldn't confirm the validity of the info, so may be source just heard incorrectly. 

nestegg's picture
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We "used to" get paid for all or most of the commish on Annuites at AGE....of course Mother Wachovia/Wells/whatever name we are this week will just keep taking more and more...how else can they pay 96 million in golden parachute $$ to the old execs....man I miss AGE...a company that was profitible yet treated employees and clients fairly too...ah the good ol days

JamesF's picture
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I heard today retention will be out before Christmas.  New name will Wells Fargo Advisors.

BukiRob2's picture
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JamesF wrote: I heard today retention will be out before Christmas.  New name will Wells Fargo Advisors.

It has to be, the deal is finalized on the 23rd. I tend to believe the prior post that we will know something by friday in terms of what they are going to do, or not do.

Vet20's picture
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...nothing like waiting until the last minute....making their advisors feel warm and fuzzy....

BigSturch's picture
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I heard the 15th they'll announce the name & package....

I think that makes sense because that is right after the license transfer places shut down for the year so, no one will be able to immediately bail out.

Vet20's picture
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Good grief - Charlie Brown

duster10's picture
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it almost has to be next week at the earliest.  WFc just got the proposal this past Monday, so no way they moved on it that quickly.

Danny Isadouche's picture
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apparently 4th or 5th revision of retention package is in WS hands. I wonder how bad the first version looked?

HymanRoth's picture
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honestly...I've never watched frogs be boiled before....

WSxAG's picture
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It only shuts down for mass transfers - not individuals. That date is Dec. 26th. See previous thread - FINRA-CRD

cmein1999's picture
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Are there any other small branches being told or being hinted at that they may need to go Finet or consolidate with other branches?

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