Questions for EJ guys
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[quote=B24] [quote=footsoldier] Jones does have a sunset program for brokers who want to slow down. The FA has to stay during the period, I have only seen one when I was with Jones, it was a new program then and it showed.
One question that never seems to be addressed is WHY do the GP’s feel the one broker office is so advantageous vs 3-4 broker offices?[/quote]
I still wonder that myself. The only thing I can gather is that it is easier for a group of 3 or 4 to go indy versus one guy. They can see the economies of scale, and 4 guys have more ba!!s than one. And would you rather have 4 guys leave taking 200mm AUM with them, or one guy taking 50mm?
I never bought the corporate line…" we hire people that are entrepreneurs, that want to be business owners"…like they are some sort of mavericks or something (sorry to bring up the “M” word so soon after the elections!).
The only other thing I think might contribute to this is how you manage it from a pure Human Resources standpoint. How do you decide who gets to partner? How do you decide on the size of the office? What if you lease 2500 sq ft and 2 of the 3 guys leave, and you can’t replace them? What if 1 guy leaves? What if all three go indy and you’re left with a huge office and no assets? What if the partnership doesn’t work out? Can you “unpartner”?
Realistically, I think the multi-FA office ship has sailed already. It’s now too complicated in our environment. They could make it work if they REALLY wanted to, but I don’t think the economics are there. Think about it…what do you save?..rent and 1/2 a BOA? Not a huge nut. That’s why they are asking Legacy and Goodknight offices to extend their terms right now. I am hosting another FA in my conference room, and he has been there for about 6 months, and will likely be there another 6-12 months. They have really scaled back on opening new offices until we get through this. Honestly, they have positioned the Goodknight/Legacy plan pretty well. It is allowing them to scale back on office openings until FA’s really prove themselves.[/quote]
B24- I am in a practice with 3 of us total. We have one assistant and frankly that’s all that’s really needed. When you look at the cost savings compared to individual offices with 1 assistant per, it is quite large. It looks like we are going to add a ML guy who wants to go independent in the next couple of months or so. We are all partners in our referral book. If one of us were to leave they can move their book at anytime but when you net over 70% after costs why would you?
Now that is 70% of all real revenue, not any haircuts taking place. Just think of it, if you have 4 guys doing 250K each for 1 million dollar office take away 50K for a real good assistant and another 50K for a real nice space you have a tremendous amount of net income flowing back to the partners at 90% or even at 80%…250K minus 12,500 for assistant and another 12,500 for rent and 25,000 to broker dealer leaves 200K for the partner. How much business do you have to do to net 200K? This is of course a crude example but you understand the point.
The isolation of the 1-person office allows Jones to be much more controlling in many, many ways. Most importantly, they want to “control the message” at all times without the broker thinking much outside of the four walls of the office. Add in a paid company spy…errrr, I mean, uh, a, uh BOA, and they totally have you by the nads.
You get 2, 3, or 4 guys together, and guys talk. Talk shop, talk house, talk company politics, have a general bitch session, bust out the brewskis at 4 o'clock, whatever. Keeping the advisor isolated, and hopefully just yearning for the next nuggets of wisdom from OnionHead is part of the plan. When you do get together, make sure it is only Jones brokers, and that there is a full agenda plumb full of plenty of company propoganda to wear down any of those edges or rough spots that have cropped up in your little brain. Make you feel empowered, worthy, and most importantly, righteous, and then dispatch you back to your little office with the paid spy to sell, sell, sell. Not think, think, or God forbid think. Just sell, sell, sell. Like I said 8 pages ago, this was all devised by one very evil freaking genius.Funny. Ted Jones sat down in his office one day and told his dad Ed Jones that if they could just figure out a way to set up all these offices around the country, isolate the guys so that they can’t talk with each other, get them to give us money for the company and call it LP, then we can make millions. Well, that freaking evil genius didn’t sell the company to make himself rich. He didn’t go public to make himself rich. He wouldn’t let anyone who wasn’t a participating member of the firm participate in the profits. All that seems a little stupid for such an evil freaking genius.
Paid spy? Did I miss that in reviewing my BOA's coursework? Surely there must have been a "How to rat out your FA" module and I just overlooked it. I'll have to look again. Are these the same BOAs who help us build our businesses? The same ones who we share our bonuses with? The same ones who often times our clients love more than us? Those are the paid spies? They must have some special decoder ring that allows them to communicate with HQ when I'm not looking. Just FYI, there's this new thing that they just installed in all of our Jones offices. It's this black rectangular box. Has some wires coming out of the back that get plugged into the wall. Mine has these twelve little buttons on it that when I pick up the thing that is attached to the front of the box and punch a few of those numbers, I get to talk to whomever I want. I've even used it to call someone who lives a really long way away from me. You know what? They worked for a completely different company than me. They had some different ideas than me. I think they must be a freaking genius. SHHH...don't tell my BOA. She'll call Jim Weddle and tell him I'm getting some ideas that didn't come from Onionhead. This isolationism as a tool to control Jones FAs is one of the most moronic statements I've ever heard. If they truly wanted to isolate Jones FAs that much they wouldn't ever recommend Legacy plans or Goodknight plans. They'd never add a second advisor to a town. They'd never hire transfer brokers. Those people have ideas that we've never heard of before. They're evil and not to be trusted. Pathetic.the reason the offices are one person as opposed to multi rep is due to supervision.
The supervision issue is probably fairly accurate. Although what is the difference between our supervisors in STL overseeing 5 guys in 5 different offices, compared to 5 guys in one office?
You’re kidding, right? Its more like 1 supervisor per 125 brokers. But you’ll probably spin it into something incredible, greatest system in the industry, EDJ brokers don’t need supervision.
Spiff-
You are kidding aren't you? Have you ever been to a meeting that wasn't Jones only FA's? I have been to several events where wirehouse reps are at (in case you were thinking that this is an industry practice). While I may not go down the path of sooth (paid spys etc) I can't completely discount the isolation theory.
Your arguments are laughable. Ted Jones had a vision, but he wasn't a pauper by the time he took over. Did you ever meet him? I did and he was one of the reasons why I felt so comfortable going to Jones. Bachman on the other hand made me feel like I needed a shower afterward. Hill I never trusted (that greatest sales force in the world crap he used to give us) and Weddle was too new before I left.In my area there are at least 2 Jones offices that house 2 rep's. I went to the EJ web site & did a search for local offices & there are rep's on there with the same street address, I assume they are not new because they actually have a picture.
[quote=Broker Fee]
In my area there are at least 2 Jones offices that house 2 rep's. I went to the EJ web site & did a search for local offices & there are rep's on there with the same street address, I assume they are not new because they actually have a picture.
[/quote] Don't chime in if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Those are Goodknight programs or Sunset programs, meaning the office sharing will only be temporary.You’re kidding, right? Its more like 1 supervisor per 125 brokers. But you’ll probably spin it into something incredible, greatest system in the industry, EDJ brokers don’t need supervision.
Huh? I think you missed my point. I meant, what is the difference between monitoring 5 guys in 5 different offices, versus 5 guys in 1 office. I was using simple math. To extrapolate that out (just for you Spears )...what's the difference between monitoring 125 guys in 125 different office, versus 125 guys in 25 different offices? You're still monitoring the same number of transactions for the same number of guys. Maybe there are FINRA/SEC rules about supervision under our arrangment that makes compliance for multiple-FA offices more difficult for some reason - I just don't know what it is.
Trust me, Spears, I'm not one to pull the "we're more ethical than the rest" bit. I'm just as unethical as you are .
[quote=Ron 14][quote=Broker Fee]
In my area there are at least 2 Jones offices that house 2 rep's. I went to the EJ web site & did a search for local offices & there are rep's on there with the same street address, I assume they are not new because they actually have a picture.
[/quote] Don't chime in if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Those are Goodknight programs or Sunset programs, meaning the office sharing will only be temporary. [/quote] You're right I don't know much about Edward Jones & frankly I don't want to know much about Jones!!! Last time I checked this was a public forum & anyone can chime in on any subject regardless of how pathetic they believe the company is. Now I will leave you to talk more about a subject that you sound like you know about all to well...best wishes![quote=bspears] You’re kidding, right? Its more like 1 supervisor per 125 brokers. But you’ll probably spin it into something incredible, greatest system in the industry, EDJ brokers don’t need supervision.
Huh? I think you missed my point. I meant, what is the difference between monitoring 5 guys in 5 different offices, versus 5 guys in 1 office. I was using simple math. To extrapolate that out (just for you Spears )...what's the difference between monitoring 125 guys in 125 different office, versus 125 guys in 25 different offices? You're still monitoring the same number of transactions for the same number of guys. Maybe there are FINRA/SEC rules about supervision under our arrangment that makes compliance for multiple-FA offices more difficult for some reason - I just don't know what it is.
Trust me, Spears, I'm not one to pull the "we're more ethical than the rest" bit. I'm just as unethical as you are .[/quote]
I think you missed the obvious....if you make branch visits you have 125 yearly visits as opposed to 25. Multiply that out and it is a huge difference. Average yearly visit at 3-4 hours gives yo a difference in man hours of 400, that's 10 weeks for one person.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
Paid spy? Did I miss that in reviewing my BOA's coursework? Surely there must have been a "How to rat out your FA" module and I just overlooked it. I'll have to look again. Are these the same BOAs who help us build our businesses? The same ones who we share our bonuses with? The same ones who often times our clients love more than us? Those are the paid spies? They must have some special decoder ring that allows them to communicate with HQ when I'm not looking. [/quote] I want to reply to all of Spiff's retort, but I'll start with this one. BOA #1: Left to help her husband when he founded his own law practice. Her and her husband remain clients to this day. I take care of their firm's 401(k) to this day. BOA #2: Left to better take care of her elderly parents who lived cross-country. Her parents were quity wealthy. They have since passed away. She remains a client to this day along with her two daughters, as well as the many referrals she has sent me from the tennis club, bridge club, and various foundation boards that she serves on. She is very comfortably retired. BOA #3: 3 different kids from 3 different men. Married none of them. Married some other guy who is currently in the state prison for drug trafficking. Total nutball user, child-support collecting, systems working loser with her own criminal record. Found all of this out after I hired her. (Remember, you have to ask all of those PC questions in a BOA interview that might not unearth all of this. BTW, she was the "strongest recommendation" from the HR staff.) So, Spiffy, when things got a little nasty and tense around the office when #3 couldn't perform her job, any guess who the hammer came down on? Who was fighting for their career? The limited partner father of 3 with a distinguished military and business career who never had anything but the highest praise from his first two assistants? The guy who led men into battle, but was apparently uncapable of supervising an administrative assistant? The guy who got narked off by an absolute drug-addicted nut job who was looking for a courtroom payday? Yeah, that's right, Spiffy. I had to defend myself and fight for my career under those exact circumstances. Through that ordeal, I realized: 1) I do not "have my own business". In fact, I am an employee with an I.D. number. Nothing more. My LP can be overridden in a moment by any nut-job who makes any outlandish and unfounded claim at any time. 2) Your BOA is a paid spy.[quote=Soothsayer][quote=Spaceman Spiff]
Paid spy? Did I miss that in reviewing my BOA's coursework? Surely there must have been a "How to rat out your FA" module and I just overlooked it. I'll have to look again. Are these the same BOAs who help us build our businesses? The same ones who we share our bonuses with? The same ones who often times our clients love more than us? Those are the paid spies? They must have some special decoder ring that allows them to communicate with HQ when I'm not looking. [/quote] I want to reply to all of Spiff's retort, but I'll start with this one. BOA #1: Left to help her husband when he founded his own law practice. Her and her husband remain clients to this day. I take care of their firm's 401(k) to this day. BOA #2: Left to better take care of her elderly parents who lived cross-country. Her parents were quity wealthy. They have since passed away. She remains a client to this day along with her two daughters, as well as the many referrals she has sent me from the tennis club, bridge club, and various foundation boards that she serves on. She is very comfortably retired. BOA #3: 3 different kids from 3 different men. Married none of them. Married some other guy who is currently in the state prison for drug trafficking. Total nutball user, child-support collecting, systems working loser with her own criminal record. Found all of this out after I hired her. (Remember, you have to ask all of those PC questions in a BOA interview that might not unearth all of this. BTW, she was the "strongest recommendation" from the HR staff.) So, Spiffy, when things got a little nasty and tense around the office when #3 couldn't perform her job, any guess who the hammer came down on? Who was fighting for their career? The limited partner father of 3 with a distinguished military and business career who never had anything but the highest praise from his first two assistants? The guy who led men into battle, but was apparently uncapable of supervising an administrative assistant? The guy who got narked off by an absolute drug-addicted nut job who was looking for a courtroom payday? Yeah, that's right, Spiffy. I had to defend myself and fight for my career under those exact circumstances. Through that ordeal, I realized: 1) I do not "have my own business". In fact, I am an employee with an I.D. number. Nothing more. My LP can be overridden in a moment by any nut-job who makes any outlandish and unfounded claim at any time. 2) Your BOA is a paid spy.[/quote] That's jacked up. Before I was in the securities industry, I was in the Security industry. Before I left Jones, you can notice all of the things that the BOA does and the "click-click" on the phone line. You can say I'm paranoid all you want, but we used to investigate people by placing cameras in Microsoft Office boxes to spy on employees stealing - that was nearly ten years ago. However, my paranoia paid off for the most part. I did not have to deal with anything near on the scale that Sooth did, although you get enough bad-mouthing to your clients from your BOA once you leave. And Spiff - there's no telling what BOA's are told when you aren't around at the "BOA regionals" and their contacts with HQ when you aren't in the office. I will say my 3rd BOA was the worst as well (and the highest recommended from HR). Divorced, drug addicted, brought a dog to the office when I was supposed to be at a regional meeting. I wrote her up more times than I can count. HR was always on her side. BOA's are spies.I had a BOA with a serious drug problem and it was not easy to get rid of her. They put her on a strict plan to continue working and at one point she came into the office, handed me her keys, and then marched down to the unemployment line and filed. Only in California would she have a prayer to win and did. I was so glad to be rid of her that it didn’t matter. Thankfully her fromer employer took her back…
Spiff is such a staunch defender of his firm its admirable (or laugahable). They did provide good back room service, much better than LPL. Best in the industry? I wouldn't rely on a survey to make that statement. Certainly Jones will weather this better than most. Most other firms are cutting back reps, admin, overhead etc. It seems inevitable, we will see futher changes at Jones. The GP's when faced with coming out of pocket to support growth initiatives (assuming a slow market recovery) will force changes. As far as the transfer broker program recently implemented...Spiff or B24 is there tangible evidence that the program is working?... My friend who left Jones and went to SSB, is now looking again to move, and he said it wasn't worth it for him to consider.Foot, all I can tell you is that we haev more transfer brokers in the past 3 months than all 0f 2008. So I guess it’s working. But many of those may have come anyway, considering the turmoil the industry is in.
I wasn't referring to the cost issue. I realize there would be a cost savings to having fewer offices. My point was from a pure compliance perspective, why would Jones have to MAINTAIN the one-man office? Someone made the comment that it's for supervision reasons, and I am trying to figure out why having multile FA's in one office is more of a compliance issue than one guy.[quote=B24] [quote=bspears] You’re kidding, right? Its more like 1 supervisor per 125 brokers. But you’ll probably spin it into something incredible, greatest system in the industry, EDJ brokers don’t need supervision. [/quote]
Huh? I think you missed my point. I meant, what is the difference between monitoring 5 guys in 5 different offices, versus 5 guys in 1 office. I was using simple math. To extrapolate that out (just for you Spears )…what’s the difference between monitoring 125 guys in 125 different office, versus 125 guys in 25 different offices? You’re still monitoring the same number of transactions for the same number of guys. Maybe there are FINRA/SEC rules about supervision under our arrangment that makes compliance for multiple-FA offices more difficult for some reason - I just don’t know what it is.
Trust me, Spears, I’m not one to pull the “we’re more ethical than the rest” bit. I’m just as unethical as you are .[/quote]
I think you missed the obvious…if you make branch visits you have 125 yearly visits as opposed to 25. Multiply that out and it is a huge difference. Average yearly visit at 3-4 hours gives yo a difference in man hours of 400, that’s 10 weeks for one person.
No doubt, Jones preaches great service - and I believe it is followed.
I wouldn’t put anything past a large company that is trying to protect it’s assets. Scoff if you will, but I’ve been on the eavesdropping side. It isn’t hard to do and cost is minimal. As a matter of fact, part of my job was writing cost justifications for what we spent on investigations. Invariably, the savings generated from catching wrongdoing (either corporate espionage, stealing samples, etc.) FAR outweighed the costs of actually doing the investigation.
[quote=Ron 14][quote=Broker Fee]
In my area there are at least 2 Jones offices that house 2 rep's. I went to the EJ web site & did a search for local offices & there are rep's on there with the same street address, I assume they are not new because they actually have a picture.
[/quote] Don't chime in if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Those are Goodknight programs or Sunset programs, meaning the office sharing will only be temporary. [/quote] Our region has a two-man office. One guy has been with Jones since the '70s, and the other guy for about 10+ years. Neither of them were new. And, when the 10+ year veteran retired, they let another Jones guy from a town over move into his spot. So, it's STILL a two-man office. It happens.