Moving From Jones to AGEdwards

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tedstriker's picture
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I'm considering moving from Jones to AGEdwards (suburban area). I'm four years out with 25mm and 170-180k gross. I know I'm don't have enough assets to go indy, and I'm just in the beginning stages of looking into AG, but would like some feedback. I have about a thousand questions, but I'll ask my top ones.

1) What is the payout at AG? I know at Jones, it averages around 38.9%, which has been close to my average also.

2) What kind of office support is there? I have an OUTSTANDING BOA now, and would love to bring her with me. Do they hire assistants?

3) How is the technology and home office support?

4) What are the quotas or production standards?

5) How do you prospect? (obviously, my business has been built through doorknocking and referrals)

I would love input from anyone who has gone from Jones to AG, and also to be fair, anyone who has gone from AG to Jones. Constructive comments only, please. Thanks in advance.

inquisitive's picture
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No input from me...yet.

Why are you considering leaving Edward Jones?

What makes you think that you'd get a decent payout at AG Edwards given your level of production?

A lot of bigger firms started starving out their lower producers a few
years back by lowering payouts to the point that reps would consider
leaving.  The starve out level around $250k at some--higher than
where you are now.  Even at 4 years of experience, you are by no
means a heavy hitter.  You aren't doing bad.  Just OK.

What would happen if you moved and your production dropped by 25%? 

I think you should stay where you are and build your business for a few
more years.  Unless you are maxed out in your current market,
which I doubt.  I think you should try to get to $350k gross, at
least $300k, then move.

Just my opinion.

babbling looney's picture
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Why do you think you can't go indy?  My pay out as an independent rep is 80% to 100%. You may have to work with an OSJ in a grouping of other reps to get the required production for the payout grid.
Do the math.  You don't need as many assets to have an income that is the same or better than you are pulling at Jones.  If you factor in the additional costs that Jones takes from you in advertising and that you have to pay out of pocket such as supplies, brochures, postage etc you will find that your actual payout is probably about 15 to 20% now.  That and the fact that the health insurance premiums at Jones for the IR was extremely high and not a business expense for me makes being independent a much better (taxwise) deal for me. 
There are no quotas in my office because I decide how much I want to do.    I don't think that there is a magic number of gross $350K or whatever that makes a move feasible. It all depends on how much income you would be satisfied with. 

HCreek Hokie's picture
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Joined: 2005-04-26

40% Stocks, Bonds, Funds, Fees - 50% Annuties other insurance
Office support fairly lacking need to do $350K in production to get half an asst
Tech is very good, and getting ready to get a lot better - been told that is far better than EJ
No quotas, have to be doing $175 after 5 years, or you start getting dinged
Prospect however you want - we do seminars and referrals mostly
 

Uptick1's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-06

Tedstriker,
Best move I ever made.  Wish I had done it a lot sooner then I did.  Edwards as long as you have a good branch manager is a much better place to work then Jones.  Your benefits are better, healthcare cheaper, and imagine having A LOT more money in your 401K right now.  The technology and products are amazing you will feel like an actual financial consultant not an investment representative.  If you would like to create a team with other brokers you can do that, if you want to set up business relationships with CPAs you can do that.  Jones always tells you run your business the way you want, but try to think outside the box and do something that does not fit into their business model.  It's not going to happen.  At AG Edwards the response will be if it makes good business sense DO IT.  At  Edwards you will receive the highest total payout in the industry considering benefits and all.  With the exception of going private.  If you had been out longer I would say going private is a great way to go, but let me tell you when you make the move and ask your clients to come with you it helps A LOT to have the largest brokerage firm outside New York on your side.  When you get ready to retire you can SELL your book.  Yes actually get money for the business you built all those years instead of handing it over to someone else and letting the partners of the firm receive all the benefits.  Jones will tell you, but you will have a branch manager.  As long as you are running an ethical business and producing a descent amount.  You do not have to be a TOP produceer they will stay out of your hair.  Go to Saint Louis and visit 1 North Jeffferson and see for yourself.  You owe it to your family and yourself to explore your options.  Hope this helps!!!!
 

BigPayDay's picture
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Uptick,

Interesting screen name. You former Jones guys can never get Jones out of your head.

My question to you is:

If you want to sell your book at AG Edwards, who buys it?

How is the price determined?

Do you really think a veteran IR at Jones just walks away from their book without any compensation?

BPD

Soothsayer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-24

"Do you really think a veteran IR at Jones just walks away from their book without any compensation?"
Of course not!  They hand the book off to their underachieving kid who would never make it as a new/new IR in a thousand years.  Then, the really talented people get to hear over and over just how wonderful junior is.  How much money he makes.  How many trips he's been on.  All of his great "sales ideas."  The veteran broker keeps his LP, which in time will deliver lower and lower returns as it continues to be watered down with nepotism and back-scratching. 

BigPayDay's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-10

Sounds like a good deal.

Also sounds like you are jealous, Sooth.

The LP has averaged more than 22% a year since 1990. Last year it was a hair under 20%.

Can "The really talented people" do this too? Yes they can too.

The only ones that can't are those who do not work for "The Firm".

Like I've said before, Jones is like the Yankees in baseball or the Cowboys in football, when you're the best you are loved or hated.

BPD

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-01

Well, when you're ready to start learning how to be the best, give me a call.

BigPayDay's picture
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What's your number?

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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Number One.  Why?

BigPayDay's picture
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You said give you a call.

Soothsayer's picture
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Also sounds like you are jealous, Sooth. It's a normal human reaction to be jealous when a do-nothing, no-talent twenty-something is making 4 times more than someone who unfortunately had to start new/new.The LP has averaged more than 22% a year since 1990. Last year it was a hair under 20%. Yeah, and the S&P 500 averaged 19% in the 90s.  What's your point? If Jones continues to not grow, and the firm continues to water down the LP with nepotism, the number will shrink, plain and simple.Can "The really talented people" do this too? Yes they can too. Yes, I agree they can.  But, they'll be playing second fiddle to the former top-producer's kid for their whole career.  The only ones that can't are those who do not work for "The Firm". I'll make my own way.

BigPayDay's picture
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Sooth,

You must really hate the Walton family (Robson, Jim, John, Alice and Helen), George Bush (43), Ted Jones, Michael Douglas, Franklin Graham, JFK Jr., Abigail Johnson, Keith Murdoch, Jesus, Donald Newhouse, Peyton Manning, etc., etc., etc. Just think how much you are going to hate Bill Gate's, Michael Dell's and Larry Ellison's children.

Sounds like you let jealousy control your life. You may want to seek professional help for this before it's too late.

What has the S&P averaged since 1990? Not 22%. If I'm not mistaken the S&P has averaged a -3.5% over the past five years. THAT'S MY POINT! With the exception of a handful of individual stocks there are very few investments that have done this well. And you're levereaged at very low interest rates. Remember you only have to put 25% down.

The offices that have been Goodknighted to family members more than not increase in business, not decrease, actually helping LP returns, not hurting them.

BPD

P.S. I'm glad you'll make your own way.

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-01

But BPD, you're trading more than 60% of your gross income for a chance to buy a few thousand dollars worth of the LP.  That doesn't make good financial sense.

BigPayDay's picture
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Fool,

It's not always about the money. You don't get it.

BPD

________________________________________
The grass is GREENER where you water it!

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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If it isn't about the money, why would you care if the LP averaged returns of 22%?
I think it's YOU that doesn't get it.

BigPayDay's picture
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My point is, if I'm comfortable where I am why change? If I did make a change money would not be at the top of my list.

Wouldn't you agree?

BPD

BigPayDay's picture
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BigPayDay wrote: Sooth,

You must really hate the Walton family (Robson, Jim, John, Alice and Helen), George Bush (43), Ted Jones, Michael Douglas, Franklin Graham, JFK Jr., Abigail Johnson, Keith Murdoch, Jesus, Donald Newhouse, Peyton Manning, etc., etc., etc. Just think how much you are going to hate Bill Gate's, Michael Dell's and Larry Ellison's children.

Sounds like you let jealousy control your life. You may want to seek professional help for this before it's too late.

What has the S&P averaged since 1990? Not 22%. If I'm not mistaken the S&P has averaged a -3.5% over the past five years. THAT'S MY POINT! With the exception of a handful of individual stocks there are very few investments that have done this well. And you're levereaged at very low interest rates. Remember you only have to put 25% down.

The offices that have been Goodknighted to family members more than not increase in business, not decrease, actually helping LP returns, not hurting them.

BPD

P.S. I'm glad you'll make your own way.

Sooth,

Thought I'd copy this for you. Wouldn't want to let this post pass by without the opportunity for you to read it.

BPD

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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If you're comfortable where you are, good for you!  That, however, does not make the drivel about Edward Jones being more moral, ethical, higher paying and/or better than anyone else true.

BigPayDay's picture
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Fool,

I did not write this:

"That, however, does not make.......Edward Jones being more moral, ethical, higher paying and/or better than anyone else true."

These are your words, not mine.

There are many good firms out there. Going Independent or Indy or soemwhere in-between like Jones is a personal preference. There are pros and cons on all.

However I think it is silly to get on this board and bash other firms or styles. It's not one size fits all.

BPD

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-01

You simpleton, you consistently do just that.
You really aren't worth the time to respond to.

Starka's picture
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BPD,
Looks like you've been busted again, child!

tedstriker's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-03

Now, wait a minute, lets please get back to the topic on hand, which is Jones vs. AG Edwards.

logan's picture
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tedstriker wrote:I'm considering moving from Jones to AGEdwards (suburban area). I'm four years out with 25mm and 170-180k gross.
 
Sorry for lame ? what does the 25mm represent and the 170-180k mean?
 
Thank you.

Soothsayer's picture
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BigPayDay wrote:Sooth, You must really hate the Walton family (Robson, Jim, John, Alice and Helen), George Bush (43), Ted Jones, Michael Douglas, Franklin Graham, JFK Jr., Abigail Johnson, Keith Murdoch, Jesus, Donald Newhouse, Peyton Manning, etc., etc., etc. Just think how much you are going to hate Bill Gate's, Michael Dell's and Larry Ellison's children. Sounds like you let jealousy control your life. You may want to seek professional help for this before it's too late. What has the S&P averaged since 1990? Not 22%. If I'm not mistaken the S&P has averaged a -3.5% over the past five years. THAT'S MY POINT! With the exception of a handful of individual stocks there are very few investments that have done this well. And you're levereaged at very low interest rates. Remember you only have to put 25% down. The offices that have been Goodknighted to family members more than not increase in business, not decrease, actually helping LP returns, not hurting them. BPD P.S. I'm glad you'll make your own way.
Almost 20% in the 90s.  I didn't take the last 5 year into account.  Let me ask you something.  You claim to have been selling ICA since the load was 8.5%  When you started, was the firm mostly made of new/new brokers?  Everybody basically chopping the same wood in their own town, right?  The second generation broker is a relatively new phenomenon for Jones.  My point is, when you were getting started, you didn't ever have to put up with it.  So, you have absolutely no idea how it feels to be constantly put in the chow line behind these guys and gals who have not done the work of building a business.  Every region is different.  Every set of circumstance is different.  My situation was such that I was always going to be smothered by this set of circumstance.  Another question for you?  What would happen if the general's son got to join the Army, but started out as a Lieutenant Colonel from day one.  Would the troops down the line respect him?  I was one of the troops who couldn't respect these jokers. 

Soothsayer's picture
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By the way, your logic is empty as hell on all the people I'm supposed to hate.  The Walton's, Ted Jones, Keith Murdoch, The Gates', the Ellison's etc. are all direct decendents of the founders.  Big, big difference.  Nobody was forced to hire Michael Douglas in Hollywood because of who his dad was.  George Bush (43) won an election, make that two.  And JFK, Jr. found out that just because your daddy is presidential material doesn't mean that you are.  Jesus paid the ultimate price, and made the ultimate sacrifice.  And, Peyton Manning didn't have NFL defenses playing soft for him because they felt sorry for poor Archie.  Besides, everyone knows he's way better than his Dad every even thought of being.  All the people who give their books to their kids are employees.  They receive W-2s annually.  That's where your logic fails.  Jack Welch was a W-2ed employee of GE.  What would have happend there if his son would have succeeded him as CEO?  Sound ridiculous, I know.

BigPayDay's picture
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Sooth: "Almost 20% in the 90s.  I didn't take the last 5 year into account."

BPD: You may not be able to calculate it on your fancy smancy computer, but the S&P has only averaged 10.9% the last 15 years. 03/90 - 03/05. Jones LP 22.7%. 

Sooth: "Let me ask you something.  You claim to have been selling ICA since the load was 8.5%  When you started, was the firm mostly made of new/new brokers?

BPD: Yes.

Sooth: Everybody basically chopping the same wood in their own town, right?

BPD: Right.

Sooth: The second generation broker is a relatively new phenomenon for Jones.  My point is, when you were getting started, you didn't ever have to put up with it.  So, you have absolutely no idea how it feels to be constantly put in the chow line behind these guys and gals who have not done the work of building a business.  Every region is different.  Every set of circumstance is different.  My situation was such that I was always going to be smothered by this set of circumstance. 

BPD: There's always someoen that will be making more money and less, somebody in better shape and less, somebody with a better looking wife and less, etc. Get MY point. Dude you gotta move on.

Sooth: Another question for you?  What would happen if the general's son got to join the Army, but started out as a Lieutenant Colonel from day one.  Would the troops down the line respect him?  I was one of the troops who couldn't respect these jokers. 

BPD: I work for a financial services firm. I'm not in the service. Totally different, not a good analogy.

"So, you have absolutely no idea how it feels to be constantly put in the chow line behind these guys and gals who have not done the work of building a business."

BigPayDay's picture
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Sooth,

This is my ALL TIME FAVORITE line of yours:

"So, you have absolutely no idea how it feels to be constantly put in the chow line behind these guys and gals who have not done the work of building a business."

It sorta brings a tear to my eye!

BigPayDay's picture
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Sooth,

Speechless?

Havn't heard from Truth in a while, maybe him and Zacko were the same person. Huh?

BPD

Soothsayer's picture
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Speechless?  Hardly.  Go back and answer the questions.  Then, I'll respond.  For the third and final time.  The S&P 500 was up almost 20% per year in the 90s.  I did not take the last 5 years into account.  I don't give two sh*ts of a rat's ass what the Jones LP did!  That is not the point!  Start with the military analogy.  It is valid.  (By the way, I'm entitled to use them, and Put Trader is not.  I served--25th Infantry Division, 3/21 Infantry "Tropic Light", Go Gimlet!)

BigPayDay's picture
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Phlyin' Phule wrote: You simpleton, you consistently do just that.
You really aren't worth the time to respond to.

Fool,

Name even one post where I have bashed another firm, just one. Thread (Topic), date and time.

BPD

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Busted again, BPD.

BigPayDay's picture
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Starka,

How do you figure "I'm busted"?

Fool says I'm consistantly bashing other firms on this board, so I asked him to show me even one post where I've bashed another firm: Topic, date and time.

Has he replied yet?

No, he has not.

BPD

Starka's picture
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Everything you post is a crock, BPD, and anyone capable of reason knows it.

Uptick1's picture
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BPD this is for you buddy!!!!
I am a former Jones LP and I will admit the returns are NICE!!!!  But lets talk about ethics for just a second.  Jones is an extremely ethical firm when it comes to doing what is right for the client.  I WILL NEVER ARGUE THAT!!!!  Are there better investment options for clients at other firms.  ABSOLUTELY!!!!  How about a mutual fund analysis department that covers 90 fund companies instead of just seven.  How about a wide range of fee based accounts for tax sensitive investors?  What about creating a hedging strategy for clients by purchasing protective puts instead of liquidating and reallocating positions.  These are all things other firms offer that Jones does not.  Do not get me wrong Jones has a good business model and for what they offer and who their target client is they do it VERY WELL.  This is not a put down to Jones in any way it is the facts.  These are all reasons I left.
 
Lets get back to ethics for a second.  I was very surprised in 2002 to see Jones when the best company to work for award.  Here's why imagine you are a very successful IR growing your business, making top producer in a year when other brokers are struggling.  Then it comes bonus time and because the firm is in the 0% bonus bracket you don't get one that year.  Is that ethical?  At first thought yes if the company is not making money how can there be a bonus.  But here is the million dollar ethical question.  What was the return on GP that year.  Ask your regional leader or area leader!!!!  Is it fair that those working on the front lines making the firm what it is get their bonus cut, but the GPs still get their hefty paycheck?
Unless you are a GP it was not a "Big Pay Day" when there was a 0% Bonus Bracket.  Is that fair????
Is it ethical to keep adding offices in small towns right on top of the brokers VOLUNTEERING their time to make the firm better.  Increasing competition and reducing the number of good prospects for them.
Jones does do what is right for the customer.  My question is do they do what is right for the broker.  Those trips can really blind you and so does the family atmosphere.  If you do not believe look at the payouts at other firms, look at other firms retirement plans, and look at other firms bonus structure. 
If we are going to keep talking about LP.  Then look at other firm stock purchase plans.  Some of which allow you to buy the stock at a 15% discount.  That is better then the 7% guarantee on the Jones LP.  Then look if you held those shares for a while.  Competitve if not better then the Jones LP.
Sometimes you need to step back clear your head and look at your options.  For me it was AG Edwards.  For others it is going private and for others it is staying at Jones.  You have to make the decision what is right for you.  But do not be close minded and not look at the possibilities.  I know that is what most good businessmen and businesswomen do.
Thank you for your time!!!
 
 
 
 
 
 

Dazed's picture
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Uptick, I can appreaciate some of what you said. I am not an LP YET but I looked online at the returns aganist AGE and there is really no comparison. Even buying at a 15% discount. Isn't the LP 7.5% a sure thing, is your stock a sure thing?

The Truth's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Read the fine print a bit closer if and when Jones decides to sell out.  Great point about the ethics.  I was talking to a simple minded Jones client and he was wanting an explanation regarding the letter he received from Jones regarding the mutual fund scandal at Jones.  Paraphrasing he said so can I move to any fund family at no cost?  I said yes you can.  He said Calamos, Franklin or Oppenheimer?  I said yes.  He said why did my broker say that that was not the case?   I asked him to make the switch from VK and LA and he said that he was reading the letter wrong.  By the way this broker is a top 10 producer.  So a complaint letter is on the way.  How are you other Jones brokers handling this situation?

Dazed's picture
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Truth, letters are not out yet for the switch. So what are you talking about?

The Truth's picture
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Apparently, the client read this somewhere.
Here is a reason to move from Jones to AG:
"We are well aware that many in our industry are moving toward fee-based compensation," Douglas Hill, Edward Jones' managing partner said in an e-mail response. "However, we serve ... the serious, long-term investor who buys quality securities, holds them over time and does not trade frequently. With that in mind, we continue to believe that the fairest and most transparent form of compensation is the payment of a commission on each transaction." So you are not a serious investor if you use fee based accounts? Good luck competing Jones Drones.
 

jonesnewbie's picture
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"I was talking to a simple minded Jones client and he was wanting an explanation regarding the letter he received from Jones regarding the mutual fund scandal at Jones."
Making sh*t up as usual - the letters have not been mailed and there is no date set for them to be mailed.
Rip on us for bad technology or too few products all you want, but quit out and out lying about annuities, b-shares, fake conversations, etc.  It's starting to look pathological.

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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Newbie, how many times has your compliance department shot down an annuity ticket from you?  How many times have you heard of them refusing to take the order?  In other words, does this vaunted compliance procedure that you cite have any teeth, or is it just a sop to show the regulators?
What I'm suggesting is that before you claim someone is lying, consider that there are those here that know far more than you do regarding the plying of our trade.

BigPayDay's picture
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The Truth wrote: Read the fine print a bit closer if and when Jones decides to sell out.  Great point about the ethics.  I was talking to a simple minded Jones client and he was wanting an explanation regarding the letter he received from Jones regarding the mutual fund scandal at Jones.  Paraphrasing he said so can I move to any fund family at no cost?  I said yes you can.  He said Calamos, Franklin or Oppenheimer?  I said yes.  He said why did my broker say that that was not the case?   I asked him to make the switch from VK and LA and he said that he was reading the letter wrong.  By the way this broker is a top 10 producer.  So a complaint letter is on the way.  How are you other Jones brokers handling this situation?

False,

There you go STORY TELLING again. The 90 day switch letters have not even been mailed out yet. Another fabricated, embellished story from a guy or gal who calls him/herself "truth".

When do the falsehoods end?

BPD

Phlyin' Phule's picture
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What reason could Truth have for lying to you?  It's obvious why you wold lie, but why would Truth have to manufacture anything?

BigPayDay's picture
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Let's see who's lying about the 90 day free switch letter. Someone who works at Jones or someone who doesn't. Humm. Maybe yoy're right fool Truth would probably know more than I about what going on at Jones.

Why is it obvious I would lie?

BPD

xej1984's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

hmmmm,
trust someone who works for a cult or one who left?
The truth will set you free candy bar.

BigPayDay's picture
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You left Jones in 1984 and still can't get them out your mind.

Maybe you should seek some professional help.

Sometimes you just gotta let things go. There's always going to be someone taller than you, somebody with more hair, somebody with a better looking wife, somebody skinnier, a better firm than yours, etc.

Don't let this ruin your life. Seek some help fast.

xej1984's picture
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You've mentioned this before and I've answered before (yeah comprehension is always an issue at your firm). I left in 2002 hence the xej portion 1984 refers to Orwell's book 1984.

Beach's picture
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xej1984 wrote:
You've mentioned this before and I've answered before (yeah comprehension is always an issue at your firm). I left in 2002 hence the xej portion 1984 refers to Orwell's book 1984.

  i liked that it made me laugh. 

BigPayDay's picture
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BigPayDay wrote: Sooth,

This is my ALL TIME FAVORITE line of yours:

"So, you have absolutely no idea how it feels to be constantly put in the chow line behind these guys and gals who have not done the work of building a business."

It sorta brings a tear to my eye!

Sooth, R.I.P.?

BPD

stanwbrown's picture
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Soothsayer wrote:Speechless?  Hardly.  Go back and answer the questions.  Then, I'll respond.  For the third and final time.  The S&P 500 was up almost 20% per year in the 90s.  I did not take the last 5 years into account.  I don't give two sh*ts of a rat's ass what the Jones LP did!  That is not the point!  Start with the military analogy.  It is valid.  (By the way, I'm entitled to use them, and Put Trader is not.  I served--25th Infantry Division, 3/21 Infantry "Tropic Light", Go Gimlet!)
A Co. 1/27INF, Wolfhounds! (attached, actually)

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