Jones #1 again?

106 replies [Last post]
Bill Fakkland's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-18

Ring the bell!!! ding ding ding ding! malcolm wins the award for the lamest comment I have ever read on this forum with his "eagle" schlock crapola. Well done, you doofus. While you're up there with the eagles, watch you don't smack into the wall of your own stupidity.

Starka's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

EDJ, if memory serves, is predominantely Roman Catholic, not fundamentalist Christian.

Phlyin' Phule's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-05-01

It's true that eagle may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Broker Fee's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

I can tell where this discussion is going.
Can I get an amen?

Malcolm's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-02

I am not walled in at my practice Bill so I don't have to worry about that.  You're the one with walls to worry about. 
Thanks for ringing the bell for me though.   

zacko's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-01

Bill,
It's all your fault for quoting the bible.  A dedicated & loyal servant of Jones who happens to quote scripture on a forum about the brokerage industry?
My case & point.

uwec86's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

BF or should I say DF (dumb #$%^)
I'll put my intellect up against yours any day of the week.  For some reason you're blinded by Jones, I hope you get a clue some day.
Don't you have some rookies to train...FOR FREE?  Jones will be very angry with you for using their system to post on this forum...compliance is watching.

Broker Fee's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

HALLELUJAH brotha uwec

Jonestown's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-01

Release the Hounds of Hell.... aka Devil Dogs!

Starka's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

Bill Fakkland wrote:Starka exposes himself as a Canuck with his "u" in savior...Zack exposes himself as a prejudiced prick for his comments about Christians...uwe is still the same idiot he always was. Last time I checked, Bush #2, Clinton, Reagan and Carter all were professing Christians. So is Warren Buffett and a few others . My intellect has nothing to do with my religious faith, and the above comments were the worst kind of bottom level thinking.
A Canadian?????
Clearly Bill, you have no intellect.
 

Bill Fakkland's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-18

Do so....

noggin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

I can't believe you guys are letting Zacko get away with the comments he does. The simple fact of saying that a person of spiritual principles is more easily manipulated is absolutely insane. A better comparism would be one that may fans have towards their favorite football team, perhaps something like the Husker fans.... I just don't care for the spiritual angle being thrown in, I have never found anything done at the regionals that would make me feel that any religon or no religon is preferred.....

xej1984's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

noggin,
How long you been at EJ?

zacko's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-01

Noggin, 
Probably half the people here agree with me on that.  That's my opinion.  You share a different view and that's ok.
Bill brought up the bible...NOT ME.  In our regional...there used to be a prayer breakfast and a prayer said at the final evening awards ceremony.  That in itself is not proper business conduct.  But that's not even my point.
Many..but NOT ALL people who are of religous faith are also "joiners".  They have a strong belief in their faith as well as a need to be a part of a group who shares identical views. 
It's much more than just being a "football fan".  I am a huge football fan--but I am just as happy watching a game alone as I am with friends.  "joiners" not only would want to watch the game--they would want to watch the game with other fans.  They would also want to recruit others to love their team as they do.  They also would give of their own free time to support the team in other ways when asked.  And, no one dare disagree or voice dissention--even when they didn't like what they saw.  Look at Amway for example....many people who are involved in Amway are "born again".  Not all--but many.  Amway specifically targets churches as well due to the joiner mentality that's prevalent. 
Whether you like it or not--being at Jones and doing the things they expect of you is akin to being in a cult of sorts.  And, anyone who would rather put money in the hat on Sunday to help make the Pastor's BMW payment before they fed their own family is in a cult and is being manipulated.
 

Bill Fakkland's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-18

Zack, the only one trying to recruit people on this forum is you. It's almost an obsession. You have issues.

Duke#1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-06

Zacko, first time for a disagreement with you -- and a big one!  I believe you're making some pretty prejudicial comments about Christians by coloring us (yes, I know you said not ALL of us) as essentially cultists and  "those that need to be a part of a group that shares identical views".  For one, why are you focusing being a part of a group w/ identical views as a faith-related thing?  This applies to all sorts of people in all sorts of ways, not just because they have a strong religious faith.  (And, by the way, you're wrong if you believe that even all Christians have "identical views" of Christianity.)
There are just as many others (liberals, conservatives, blacks, Greeks, Irish, rednecks, college alumni, etc., etc.) who may like to join clubs, socialize, etc. with others of their common backgrounds & beliefs where they do share a common bond.  That's not to say they're cultists, joiners, don't have tolerance for others, and/or don't also participate & socialize with many others of different backgrounds or beliefs.  It's just a normal part of life where there are times and circumstances where you choose to be with others sharing a common passion or belief. 
I'm a Christian and go to a church that's with other Christians where we can share our faith and continue to learn and grow in it.  For that part of my life, it would do me little good to worship in another environment.  But, my church and my faith are not my exclusive circle of friends and business associates by any means.  It doesn't make me a cultist or a "joiner".  Also, within my church and probably all others, there are many differences represented even about Christianity.  There are differences of opinion on the formality/informality of the service, the choice of music, the interpretation of the Bible, our involvement with missions, how church funds are to used, etc..  For the most part, all we do share are the basic tenants of Christianity -- and there are even some within the church that are still struggling with accepting those.  The latter are not shunned, considered "damned to hell", or whatever.  They're loved, served, and ministered to no different from the majority attending my church who have fully accepted Christ.
Zacko, you're with RJFS as an independent contractor.   As you well know, independents are people who have chosen not to be employees of broker-dealers that puts them in a more restrictive & closed environment.  They don't want or need to be part of a typical branch office structure.  They want greater freedom & flexibility and don't want to be grouped in the herd. They've chosen to go their separate way, to own their own businesses, to operate under their own business names, etc..  You're a part of our industry that is made up of people who are anything but "joiners".  For the most part they are "fiercely independent". 
Yet, being at RJFS you also know that at all the RJFS National Conferences there is also a Prayer Breakfast (like your prior Regional Meetings w/ Jones).  RJFS has chosen to provide a formal venue for those who wish to come together to share a meal with other Christians, to pray, to hear a devotional, and to sing Christian songs together with others of the same faith.  That is these RJFS reps' choice to participate or not in the breakfast.  But, that Prayer Breakfast is full to the rafters with "independents", certainly not joiners or cultists.  Most of these Prayer Breakfast attendees would do anything for you or others at RJFS to help them with their businesses, to share ideas, etc.  They don't limit their sharing to just other Christians.  The faith your RJFS peers share is just a part of their lives.  It doesn't make them any less or more of a "joiner" or "cultist" than you are.
Zacko, perhaps your prejudicial feelings have come from running across some closed-minded, intolerant Christians.  But, that's no different from running across intolerant people of any belief, race, or football team loyalty.  Some of your feelings may have also stemmed from your Jones "cult" experience, and realizing that you felt duped by them as it related to your business.  Whatever it may be or not, all I suggest is that you be more careful about prejudicially coloring elements of life you may encounter based on whatever or whomever you may have encountered in the past.  That makes you come across as closed-minded as you profess others are with whom you may find disagreement.

noggin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

XEJ1984- Almost 3 years. I am studying for the CFP now.
Duke #1 - A much better post than I had written.
Zacko- I understand where you are coming from, I really do. I just didn't appreciate the tone of the diatribe. I thought the most recent post clarified your position. Thanks for all your input.

Soothsayer's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-24

When you finish that CFP, you're going to want to put it to use.  In other words, time to leave Jones??

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

So you are a CFP, Sooth?

Soothsayer's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-24

BigPayDay wrote:So you are a CFP, Sooth?
Soon.

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

What's your minimum account size you'll take on?

Soothsayer's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-24

BigPayDay wrote:What's your minimum account size you'll take on?
No minimums.  I treat other people the way that I would like to be treated.  If they're serious about the process, then I'm serious about helping them.  I'm embarassed by the snob appeal of the wirehouses.  It represents a disservice to the professionalism of the industry.

stanwbrown's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-01

Soothsayer wrote:
BigPayDay wrote:What's your minimum account size you'll take on?
No minimums.  I treat other people the way that I would like to be treated.  If they're serious about the process, then I'm serious about helping them.  I'm embarassed by the snob appeal of the wirehouses.  It represents a disservice to the professionalism of the industry.

 
Please spare me. We could have a roaring debate about professionalism and the indies wouldn't have clean hands. Indies, for all the good things about them have massive compliance holes and in this day and age that's a major problem. The regulators have rightfully gone after the biggest fish first and attacked some long ignored business practices at wirehouses.
The next step will be cleaning house at all the places where there's no real "business restraint" office and the big hurdle to entering the business is the price of a shingle to hang out and a local business license.

stanwbrown's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-01

Soothsayer wrote:When you finish that CFP, you're going to want to put it to use.  In other words, time to leave Jones??
Shouldn’t you actually earn your CFP before you tell others, erroneously, where they can and can't "put it to use"? Come on, Sooth, you're better than that.

Starka's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

Stan, in all fairness I must say that I've found compliance to be stricter from a regulatory standpoint that when I worked at EDJ.  It is, however, easier to stay compliant, due to the fact that through my indy channel, the rules are much more clearly codified and applied in a more even-handed manner.  Further, when something new comes down the 'pike, there is an explantion with it, which does help.

Soothsayer's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-24

Stan-
My point was that EDJ is not super keen on brokers earning their CFP.  They prefer brokers get the lightweight AAMS.  Jones knows many of the principles in the CFP training run counter to their own philosophy.  As far as all the regulators and regulation goes, I don't need to be threatened or have the threat of regulation hanging over my head to do the right thing.  My dad had many, many sayings that he repeated often as I was growing up.  Two that are appropriate in this case are, "Do the right thing when no one is looking," and "When you don't tell a lie, then you don't have to remember what you said."

stanwbrown's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-01

Soothsayer wrote:
Stan-
My point was that EDJ is not super keen on brokers earning their CFP.  They prefer brokers get the lightweight AAMS.  Jones knows many of the principles in the CFP training run counter to their own philosophy.  As far as all the regulators and regulation goes, I don't need to be threatened or have the threat of regulation hanging over my head to do the right thing.  My dad had many, many sayings that he repeated often as I was growing up.  Two that are appropriate in this case are, "Do the right thing when no one is looking," and "When you don't tell a lie, then you don't have to remember what you said."

Thanks for the insight on Jones' view of the CFP. I suppose others can chime in with their take on it.
As to honesty and running a clean business, I agree completely with your Dad. OTOH, that's not the issue.
The issue is that everyone in the business is human, and subject to human frailties. That applies to people at indies as well as any wirehouse or anything in between. You don’t have to be a fan of regulators or feel the need to be personally supervised to know there are plenty of bad apples among us.
<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 
Wirehouses deserve ALMOST every bit of flack they’ve received recently, even though there are thousands of honest, ethical people in their ranks. It boiled down to a tough review by regulators of long accepted, but less than 100% ethical business practices.
 
When it comes down to the unethical acts of specific reps, or of some firm practices, the problem is that in some environments there isn’t a strong system of reviews. That’s what we just saw with RJ’s flat fee account problems. I’m certainly willing to see wirehouses take their knocks, what I’m not willing to do is cede some sort of moral high ground to indies. There are plenty of rocks there that have yet to be overturned.
 
Wait until the SEC and others get around to looking closely into the backgrounds and histories of reps that indy B/D have been willing to take on with little to no compliance supervision. The indy ranks aren’t just full of entrepreneurs, there are plenty of guys there who simply have U-5s that are too dirty to work in any other channel.
 

 

Soothsayer's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-24

Stan--
You're right on the mark.  Again.  I think you've said in the forum before that you expect the absolute number of brokers to shrink some in the years ahead.  Some of these regulatory issues will force the less than ethical brokers out when they have to look like they're at least trying to do the right thing.  For the guys and gals who have always done the right thing, not much will change other than the recordkeeping. 

noggin's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

Sooth- I am paying the cost for the CFP myself for the very reasons you mentioned. It is certainly not a substitute for hard work but it is valued at other firms more than at mine.

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

Webster wrote:  
Jones is #1 place to work in....
Drum Roll please......
http://www.hawaiibusiness.cc/hb42005/default.cfm?articleid=2
Jonestown Envy, read it and weep.
 
    

Phlyin&#039; Phule's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-05-01

I'm at a loss to understand a) how this would translate into ANYTHING good for anyone on the mainland, and b) given that, why anyone outside of Hawaii would even care, let alone be envious?

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

Fool,

I'm at a loss why you would take the time to read my posts. But you do.

Who says I'm on the mainland?

BPD

Phlyin&#039; Phule's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-05-01

I read your posts simply for the amusement value and nothing more.  And the humor value of your stupidity is even draining out.
 

Webster's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-10

Fool,
Some reading for you:
http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/dowjo nes.html
Who started your firm?
 
 

Starka's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

That's a different Edward D. Jones.
Nice try though.

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

So if Jones is such a terrible firm then why have they grown so quickly under such terrible management?

http://www.edwardjones.com/pdf/COM-101D.pdf#search='edward%2 0jones%20hawaii'

A difficult question to answer, huh.

BPD

xej1984's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

candy bar,
To explain your firm's "rapid growth" P.T. Barnum said it best about suckers.  You may wish to explain why your firm's "burn rate" of new applicants is probably only second to Primerica.

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

When I started with Jones our revenues / net earnings were 1/20 of Edwards. Today our revenues are higher. I know, I know terrible management, low net worth customers, yadiyada, yadiyada.....

Just because YOU didn't make it at Jones doesn't mean we have a high "burn rate". Too bad you got caught in the fire in 1984.

BPD

Duke#1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-06

Primerica touts that it has over 100,000 reps.  It's forerunner (A.L. Williams) started sometime in the late 70's I believe.  Using BPD's logic of "growth=superiority" I guess we'd all have to say Primerica is the best firm in the industry.

jonesnewbie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-08

Duke#1 wrote: Using BPD's logic of "growth=superiority".
To quote my favorite BSD vet, close but no cigar.  BPD actually said that Jones "revenues / net earnings" and rapid increase of same were evidence that its management is not as bad as you claim - i.e., that profitiability=superiority. 
So, if you want to stick with the analogy thing in your posts, a more accurate statement would be something like this:  Using BPD's logic of profits=superiority, company x, which is very profitable (and has been rapidly increasing its profits) must be superior.
Actually, now that I have bothered to spell it out, I can see why you fibbed on the logic.   

jonesnewbie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-08

Webster wrote:
Fool,
Some reading for you:
http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/dowjo nes.html
Who started your firm?

Sweet ...
And if you say FGIC insured fast enough, that little old lady will be convinced she just bought a 30 yr gov't backed CD from the Bank of GMAC.

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

Jonesnewbie,

It's amazing how many of you Jones Bashers or should I say Jones Failures have Jones in your screen name. Just can't get Jones out of your head, can you?

I don't think Prime America or whoever you are talking about has 100,000 offices.

BPD

compliancejerk's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-03

Jonesnewbie,
Ever notice how many of your firm colleagues seem to resort to name calling whenever they can't come up with a witty retort? Of course Primaerica doesn't have 100,000 offices, a number of them have become EJ brokers....

BigPayDay's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-01-10

CJ,

JonesNewbie is not with Jones.

I don't understand it either, why all the Jones Bashers (a.k.a. jones failures) have Jones in their screen name. If you cut them they would probably bleed green too. They just don't want to admit it.

BPD

jonesnewbie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-08

BigPayDay wrote:JonesNewbie is not with Jones. BPD
Ummm... yes I am.  BPD, relax, take a couple of deep breaths, think some happy thoughts, and then go back and reread the posts.  The post where you accused me of being stan was actually a response to Stan.  And the post in this thread was actually defending Jones against a typically lame attempt to compare us to Primerica.

Duke#1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-06

Newbie, I wasn't trying to compare Jones to Primerica -- they're in two very different classes of firms (with Jones being the much higher one in my opinion), so excuse me if that's what you thought.  All I was trying to say was that growth of a firm doesn't necessarily equate to quality of a firm, anymore than the growth of anything or of any company doesn't necessarily equate to its quality.
I'm not a former Jones IR, so I don't share the passionate negative feelings of former IRs.  My b/d (RJFS) has a ton of former Jones IRs and those I've gotten to know are very good quality reps who benefitted from starting out w/ Jones to get trained & build a book. 
There's good & bad to all b/ds.  The primary negative feedback I've heard from the former IRs I've gotten to know is about the old technology, lack of fee-based business, & relatively limited product lines.  These are things you probably would rather have changed yourself.  Again, no firm is perfect.
The most passionate negative feelings though (which is probably why you see so many of these on these forums) relates to the feeling like they were somewhat hood-winked at Jones.  They came in as neophytes and fell for the Jones cultural mantra that "Jones is the best", "the Jones way of doing business is the only way to do business", etc.  They felt so isolated within that culture (or cult as some would say) that they didn't realize there is a lot of greener grass in our industry.  That's why you hear so much about drinking the Jones kool-aid.  I think in good measure they're angry with themselves that they didn't see the light of reality sooner.  I remember one guy saying that if Jones had not been so adamant in preaching its culture & praising itself, that his feelings would be much more positive about the firm.  He related to having some god-like hero on a pedestal (sp?) who's so self-righteous, and then you find out he has some serious warts that he's hidden.  You feel duped, and that fallen hero is now garbage in your mind.  In reality that hero may be no lesser a man than another hero who was open in acknowledging his frailty, but that second hero is going to remain a hero to you because he was willing to put himself out there, warts and all. 

Duke#1's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-06

PS: Primerica I'm sure doesn't have 100,000 offices, but they do spout out that they have 100,000 reps.

jonesnewbie's picture
Offline
Joined: 2005-02-08

Duke#1 wrote:
Newbie, I wasn't trying to compare Jones to Primerica -- they're in two very different classes of firms (with Jones being the much higher one in my opinion), so excuse me if that's what you thought. 

WOW, a Jones post that is both insightful and unbiased.  I feel the need to respond in an equally civilized manner.
Duke#1 wrote:
The primary negative feedback I've heard from the former IRs I've gotten to know is about the old technology, lack of fee-based business, & relatively limited product lines.  These are things you probably would rather have changed yourself.  Again, no firm is perfect.

I agree with all three.  But the only one that would really give me pause about my decision to go with Jones is the lack of fee-based.  The limited product line doesn't have much affect on someone at the newbie level, and (frustrating as it can sometimes be) the dated technology is not much of a hindrance to building a business either.
Duke#1 wrote:
The most passionate negative feelings though (which is probably why you see so many of these on these forums) relates to the feeling like they were somewhat hood-winked at Jones.   

I think that is a dead on statement.  To become so disillusioned, you must first have been illusioned about the firm.  Maybe it is because I have worked at "the firm" type companies in the past or maybe it's just that I am more cynical by nature, but I never bought into the hype up front so I am not disappointed by the actual product in the end.

Player's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-12-08

YES, NUMBER ONE FIRM ..IN DISHONESTY TO THEIR LOYAL CLIENTS,
THAT IS SOMETHING TO BE REALLY PROUD OF, ISN'T IT...

Broker Fee's picture
Offline
Joined: 2004-11-30

errrrrr Player
Do you think you could type just a smidge smaller. Trust me, we can read sized regular fonts.

Please or Register to post comments.

Industry Newsletters
Investment Category Sponsor Links

 

Careers Category Sponsor Links

Sponsored Introduction Continue on to (or wait seconds) ×