jones #1 again

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Revealer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-13

Just took a retirement acct. away from a jones rep and scenario was small biz in a simple IRA and I questioned client about fund selection and pricing and client said jones rep explained that, " In time your cost will go down on these A shares due to quantity discount." Actually not a lie because in YEARS this would indeed occur. (Acct. contributing about 100K/yr.) But, the reall killer was when I asked the client why they held 4 (yes four) different funds from 3 (YES THREE) different fund families? Now I ask you all...(1) guess which fund families? and (2) How much did it cost this small biz owner for the trip the jones rep took? Yes, folks, jones really is #1 when it comes to scr##ing their clients. Better stop this cra# or the Revealer will getcha. (Before you ask...I am switching client to a 401K with ALL the lights and whistles, internet access, 78 choices, all for 130 bps/yr going down to 100bps @ 1MM) jones can't even offer this provider.  

BrokerRecruit's picture
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Joined: 2005-04-19

And Revealer can email his clients from his office with the computer he doesn't have to pay for.

Soothsayer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-24

Amazing what you can do when you cut a few hundred GPs out of the equation with obscene six-figure salaries who contribute little or nothing to your success.

Guest1's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-16

Revealer, unfortunately this is not limited to just Jones. I did almost the exact transfer from a local indy in a 401k ( I went NAV at less than 100 bps/yr) . There are bad apples at every firm. I also just moved over 175k in B shares from another wirehouse. It happens everywhere.

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Guest1,
WHo is doing NAV transfers?

Guest1's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-16

Zacko, I did not say NAV transfer. Those days are gone. there are several platforms out there that allow NAV purchases in a qualified plan.

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Revealer- I guess I need to start a new thread when I take a retirement account away?? Congrats to you but the rep should have his butt kicked for what happened on the account. From my vantage point, Mother Merrill seems to offend more than anyone else when you look at their accounts.....

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Revealer, would the client have been happier if everything was in Putnam before the do-do hit the rotary air handler?  Or in Federated?  Or Goldman Suchs?
Look, Lord knows I'm no fan of Edward Jones, and there's plenty to criticize about the firm.  But I hesitate to call a broker out because he put a client in more than one fund family.  (There's also plenty to criticize about mutual funds in general, but that's another story.)

blarmston's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-26

"From my vantage point, Mother Merrill seems to offend more than anyone else when you look at their accounts..... "
Are you upset because you look at the various products your firm probably cant provide? Or the stellar investment performance that surely happened, due to perfect allocation and top notch investment choices? Or are you offended when the ML client stays with their FA?
Before people get all pissy at that post let me just inform you all.... that I am fcuckin around

Soothsayer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-24

Stellar investment performance from Mother Merrill?  Please define "stellar", and then I'll try to put that in a relative context.  The vast majority of ML accounts that I see (including the $3 million one that I looked at today) have severely undeperformed a basket of good mutual funds.  For instance, the account I looked at today underperformed my daughters' Capital World Growth and Income College America account by a whopping 50%.  And their Smart 529 Aggressive Portfolio by a huge margin.  I could go on, and on, and on.  Where is all of the outstanding performance that Merrill's clients are paying so freakin' dearly for?  I'll say it one more time--it's looks to me like a big dog and pony show with overrated cache.

Revealer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-13

Noggin: He DID get his butt kicked. So has jones, the firm. Start any thread you want, since you are obviously schlepping for jones with your 253 posts. Want to start one about jones putting people in Putnam 529 even when the state of residence offers an income tax benefit for the state sponsored plan? 

moneyadvisor's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-02

Sooth - Merrill does not get any more of a "whopping fee", than any other firm, so quit it!..........We are all doing 3 times the work for 1/2 the money these days.
I do know one thing.......When someone asks me who I work for, They recognize the name, and there is an heir of respect. As oppossed to a firm that has changed their name 6 times in the past 5 years, or the bank, or one of them independent firms. I loved when I was with Jones..........Hi I'm Joe Smith with Edward Jones........."Nice to meet you Ed."

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Guest1,
Oh..like Vankampen...I got it.
 

Guest1's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-16

ZAcko, no, not like Van Kampen. Multi family product (not annuity based) allowing NAV with a 500k minimum. It is not a preferred family but has over 300 dealer agreements for funds. Nice package, low fees etc..

noggin's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

Revealer-Every time you make a generalization that is inaccurate I post. If that makes me a schlepper for Jones, so be it. I try to be balanced in my observations, I certainly can't say that for you. As for myself, I NEVER put anyone in the Putnam529 plan that you speak so highly of. By the way, do you agree with EVERYTHING your firm does?

Bill Fakkland's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-18

You get a "heir" of respect? Does this mean you have a descendant of
respect? Or does this mean you are a complete moron who can't spell "air".
Even worse...you thought it was the right word. Do you breathe heir too,
idiot? Do you fly in a "heirplane'? Drive to the heirport?

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

There's laughter in the heir!

iconsult100's picture
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Joined: 2005-09-06

Revealer wrote: Now I ask you all...(1) guess which fund families? 
American Funds, Van Kampen, & Putnam

Revealer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-13

Noggin: 254 posts? 254 generalizations? Almost as many GENERAL izations as GENERAL partners. Yep. I REALLY like that there putnam outfit, they done give out better'n most trips. EVERYTHING my firm does? Hardly anything that harms my clients. I ain't no clone!

Malcolm's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

That's funny stuff Bill.  Thanks for making me laugh this Friday.  I liked hierplane!
How are things going over there in EDJ land?  I just talked to a buddy there last week who has been there 10 years now and he is hanging on by a thread.  He trains a newbe every few months it seems who lasts a few months and then is out.  He's getting pretty tired of donating so much free time.   I give him another 18 months befor he makes the move.   
I am so glad I do not work for EDJ any longer.  Having a fee based business is HEAVENLY.  Try it, you and your clients will love it.
Edward Jones is a unethical company to work for in my opinion. 

moneyadvisor's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-02

Bill Fakkland wrote:You get a "heir" of respect? Does this mean you have a descendant of respect? Or does this mean you are a complete moron who can't spell "air". Even worse...you thought it was the right word. Do you breathe heir too, idiot? Do you fly in a "heirplane'? Drive to the heirport?
 
Ahhhh, another english major trying to make it in the business.

moneyadvisor's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-02

wait a minute Bill is a Jones guy??? So....how is the sweater vest collection???

exdrone's picture
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Joined: 2005-07-01

Before I left Jones  I attended a MAP seminar put on by "the firm." MAP is the Jones separately managed account program. 
In the words of the presenter, a Jones employee, "Cost is only a factor in the absence of value."
She then went on to talk about trading costs in M/F's and the great benefits and cost savings of SMA's.  I was a little torqued that this was the first time I had heard of this(trading costs). But that's what Jones calls "Just in time training" or "We'll tell you what we want you to know in accordance with how it benefits the General Partners."
Most people at Jones think the fee based adviser does the same thing for his/her clients that an "IR" does for his.  That is collect a couple thousand accts, park them in funds, re-balance annually with "Portfolio."  There is simply no understanding of delivering a higher level of service. The kind you can when you have 100-200 households getting real financial planning and real attention.
I wouldn't pay a fee for annual "Portfolio" reviews either, and for that matter wouldn't be comfortable charging a fee for them.
Jones does not have the best products, tools, or support in the investment world, yet they charge their "IR's" a premium for what they get.

Malcolm's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Exdrone you are so right.  When I left EDJ, I quickly realized that I was totally clueless regarding how to manage money.  Yes, I had become a very good salesperson but that's about it. I certaintly did not feel good about how Jones had me running things and I did not feel it was in my clients best interest. 
In my years at The Dark Side, I averaged 14 new accounts per month!  Now I am down to about two per month, yet I am bringing in more assets.   CLients get very close attention and my days are so much more relaxed.  I don't even have a prospect system anymore so no more spending my days calling people I didnt really know asking them to.. "with the money you have available I think you should buy this bond" crap.  I'm embarrassed I was ever even there.   
What a sleezy way to run a company.  Even at that though I left in an honorble manner and never said a bad word about them.  That's when their true colars really came out.  My clients were lied to regarding my intentions and my character was attacked by everyone involved at Jones.  Especially when a GPs relative was given my office.  I guess they didn't mind my character when I more than once went to St Louis to help train new IRs.   Then there was the Reg. Leader who tried with money to get my BOA to come back to help get the book of business that followed me to return to the dark side. She is still with me and doing great. 
My life is so much better now and I never regret for a moment that I left that dirt bag of a company along with my LP.  I cant say enough good things about having a fee based business.  Yes the transition was difficult but I am delighted with my business now.  
I recommend for anybody with enough assets to LEAVE EDJ now.  It only gets harder as time passes.  You will be on a NEVER ENDING TREADMILL as a transaction broker. 

uwec86's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

To heir is human.

moneyadvisor's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-02

I love it...."if you have the money available mrs. 80 year old prospect, this muni bond maturing in 2130 paying 5%, That's "TAX FREE". In your tax bracket,.......that's like getting.....23%.....I think you should invest in this. I know, it does'nt mature for 125 years, but..................it has an "estate" feature......hmmm, hmmm(picture ted knight in caddyshack asking danny if he want's to come over on the day of the big party,......to cut his lawn) How would youuuuu, like to...buy a bond hmmmm, hmmmm.

Malcolm's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

We were so brainwashed. 
When I think of EDJ now here are the things that come to my mind.   Once a great company that lost its way.  Unethical.   Back stabbing.  Cultish.  Uninformed.  Sales-gross driven.  Behind the times.  Bleeding of its best employees. 
Catering to the uninformed by the uninformed.  An organization of little scared young brokers scratching to survive.  Low average production.  Lack of experience.  Bad for the investors.  Give away your valuable time to work for free to get nonexistent LP.   Crummy technlogy.  Poor..no, terrible platform.   
 

moneyadvisor's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-02

Malcom - I think it was a great thing at one time. But this wanting to have a Jones office on every corner idea sucks. The office I took over for them was in a horrible location, I was the 5th guy in 4 years to run it. They are just forcing this failed concept on the market place. What would be so wrong with being more careful and thought out. Maybe the one broker office is not a good idea, for some of the markets that they are going into. Let's not forget....in the 80's and 90's you probably could throw a newbie in a strip mall, and sell investments. Not today.

Malcolm's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Its about overall company revenue and market share.  The poor newbe has no idea what's going on and how terrible the location is they are being sent to.  The vets who train them know...St Louis knows. 
Sure, go knock on doors in the area around your office!  Eight other IRs have already knocked on those doors over the last 2 years but don't tell that to the unsuspecting new IR whos life has been turned upside down.  Then they cant understand why they are struggling. 
The Regional leader in my area didnt have one sticking office in his town of 40,000 until three years ago.  The towns around him had offices less than a mile apart.  Even now, he only has two other offices in his town. 
I really feel sorry for many of these young men and women starting out over there.  Sheep to slaughter.  But who cares, there is always another one to throw against the wall to see if they stick.

The Truth's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Honest answer to this question Jones Clones.  I have heard through several sources that some big time top hitters have left the firm over the past few months.  I am hearing 90% of their book is following them within a short time frame.  What is going on at cult firm? 

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

They don't know...When someone leaves it gets hidden as well as be.  When they do (rarely) recruit a broker....hell that's front page news.
I got 90% of my book 2 years ago and have never been happier since leaving Jones.  MUCH better as an indy.

Greenbacks's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-21

I asked this on another forum but I will ask it here to. I am just curious about this!
What is the quota for a new rep before Jones rents him/her a office?
What is the quota after they get there new office?
And how long before Jones gets rid of them for lack of production?
Just wondering because there seems to be so many empty offices around the country.

Guest1's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-16

Truth, I would say that your comment has a lot of exaggeration to it. I do know most of the bigger hitters here and a few have left, not many. (less than 10 750k and up that I know of, same as any firm) A friend of mine left 6 months ago, 110mill book and he has taken less than 40%. Zacko took his 90% but we all know how.  Brokers leave firms every day. Don't read too much into it.

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Guest1,
How on EARTH could somone only get 40%?  I've never even heard of less than 60% for any move from Jones.  My guess is he was not the orginal broker in the office and that he inherited it.  either that or your information is incorrect.  There is the possibility he was very lazy and unorganized--but 40% is soooooooooooo bad.
How did I get the 90%?  Organized, planned, took staff with me, and worked ass off.  Hardest working 30 days of my life by far...and I actually enjoyed the challenge.  If you know something i don't--feel free to PM me.

Indyone's picture
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Joined: 2005-05-30

I was in a bank program and I don't expect any less than 50%, which is 90% of what I want.  Two months in, I'm at about 35%...
The other 40-50%...they can have...I'd rather prospect for real customers...no just jump through a bunch of hoops for short-term rate whores...

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

It's a bit different coming from a Jones office where YOU are the reason they have their account at the branch.

7yrvet's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-08

zacko-
 
I know of two in my state that got less than 40%. Both left within the last year. It does happen....As far as your 90%, well that is close to a record isn't it?
Maybe you should write a book. I am sure there are several on this forum that would read it with interest.

Mike Damone's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Indyone wrote:
short-term rate whores...

Hahaha, you just described 50% of my book of business.  I would slap them if I could.
 

The Truth's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

GUEST 1-
I appeciate the answer.  I know of 3 and you said around 10.  So can we agree on say 8?  How many $750K producers do you have?  Because one point I will disagree wiith you on and you cannot win is your statement about Jones being just like all of the other wirehouses that lose big brokers.  One goes to Merrill and one goes from Merrill to SB.  They just replace each other.  How many $750K brokers does Jones bring in from the outside? With really no managed money platform I really doubt a big hitter at a wirehouse is jumping with joy to come to Jones and sell American Funds. When 40%, 50% or whatever percentage we want to come up with that leaves a top producer's book takes many, many years for Jones to replenish.
Word on the Indy street or at least the street I am familiar with says the picking has been good at Jones and anticipates getting better.
Come on board before the train passes you buy.
 

uwec86's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

7yrvet wrote:
zacko-
 
I know of two in my state that got less than 40%. Both left within the last year. It does happen....As far as your 90%, well that is close to a record isn't it?
Maybe you should write a book. I am sure there are several on this forum that would read it with interest.

He did get 90%!!!!!

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

7yrvet wrote:
zacko-
 
I know of two in my state that got less than 40%. Both left within the last year. It does happen....As far as your 90%, well that is close to a record isn't it?
Maybe you should write a book. I am sure there are several on this forum that would read it with interest.

Great idea!!!!  Many of the ex-EDJers could contribute an Edward Jones horror story!
We could call it, "The Edward D. Jones Story.....The Agony of Defeat".

jonesnewbie's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-08

7yrvet wrote:
I know of two in my state that got less than 40%. Both left within the last year. It does happen

7yr, aren't you in the same region as the Fort Bragg IR's that went to Wachovia this summer?  Is this who you are referring to?  If not, can you update us on how that went. 

FREE's picture
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Joined: 2005-03-05

I left edj 5 months ago and have moved 92%,a friend left 90 days ago and is at 80%,dont believe the bs from jones.

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Those Ft Bragg guys took over an office...not an appropriate example 7 year.  Although Jones will hold it out there as an example that if you leave your clients will stay back at jones...That's horsesh*t--good brokers take a signifigant percentage (75% or better) when they leave.  That's an indisputable fact.
I always chuckle to myself when I see a Jones guy try to compare the merits of indy versus those of remaining at Jones.  What I find particularly funny is that they believe there is anything to compare when in truth there really isn't.  I know--I used to do the same thing two years ago before I left.  And having been a top producer at Jones and now at RJFS, I can say that in my expert opinion--that the far better place is indy.  It aint even close.
 

7yrvet's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-08

Thanks for asking. Call fenderbroker, let him give you the numbers. My understanding is that they didn't have the Zacko touch...

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

I also believe that the Ft Bragg IRs were not the original reps that brought most of the clients in in the first place.  I know that one of them transfered to that office about 5-6 years ago.  Possibly that has something to do with the clients not moving out in mass numbers?  Their loyalties lay more with the company than the IR since they have had "several" different people servicing their account.  People come and go but the "brand name" company seems to stick.

zacko's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-01

Babbling...exactly my point.
7 year...as far as the zacko touch goes,  only my wife knows about that one.  I just worked hard and had good client relationships, and prepared very well.  And like you, I built my office from scratch.
Taking over an office doesn't tally in my book, as you never really earned the business in the first place.  It was there when you arrived and therefore very little client loyalty can be expected in the first several years.  Simply inheriting or taking over a book of business garner no respect from me.  It took nearly a decade to build my branch from ZERO.  Now, I sit happily with over 100 million AUM and know that my clients, my business and my family are all the better for it. 
 

Ex-Joneser's picture
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Joined: 2005-10-06

I just left Jones last Tuesday after only 3 months. I don't know what I
was thinking signing up to work for Jones. I came right out of college
and didn't know what I was getting myself into. The communication
system is still in the 80's. They don't even have e-mail-- it's a wire
system that uses DOS like commands. Jones pays new IR's $7.00 p/hr.
Doorknocking just doesn't work anymore. Not atleast in a city the size
of Charlotte, NC. The people in St. Louis don't tell you how many
people went to the area you are in before you got there. Every
neighborhood has been doorknocked by three or more brokers. It's just
horrible. And all the time they give you the same old lines to try to
get you to stay so the GP's can make a fortune off your work. Also, the
growth plan is failing miserably. By 2016 they want to have 25,000
offices. By the end of this year they want 10,000 and are about a
thousand offices behind schedule. Another problem is just their
dishonesty. I have a friend in the area who Jones owes about $2000 in
unreimbursed expenses. These expenses date back for about a month and
he is wondering if he'll ever get his money back. What kind of company
can't reimburse someone for a month? I could go on for hours about how
bad Jones is to work for and I was only there for a few months.

I think zacko asked about qualifying for an office. Jones expects you
after about 18 weeks to make $2,250 in net commission. After that you
qualify for an office. I don't know how much they expect of you once
you are in an office or how long they will let you draw against the
firm before they let you go.

babbling looney's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

By the end of this year they want 10,000 and are about a thousand offices behind schedule.
Interesting.....these are the same numbers for target growth from several years ago when I was at Jones.  This tells me that they have "not" grown much since then and have actually lost more offices than they are opening up.   This does not bode well for their business model.
 

Greenbacks's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-21

Ex-Joneser wrote:
I think zacko asked about qualifying for an office. Jones expects you after about 18 weeks to make $2,250 in net commission. After that you qualify for an office. I don't know how much they expect of you once you are in an office or how long they will let you draw against the firm before they let you go.
Thanks. That may explain why they have so many empty offices. Most new reps can sell to there friends and family and earn $2,250 commision. But when they run out of friends and relatives they are gone and Jones has an empty office! Some one should set up a REIT for Jones Offices and collect from them!
Do they get a BOA when they get an office or how much do they need in Commision to get a BOA and does she get laid of if the rep fails? And how much do they need to bring in to keep there office profitable after that?    

Starka's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

I wonder how this will all play out at Jones with the new definition of a "branch office".

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