How's that Jones Bank and REIT portfolio

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new_indy's picture
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So how's that Jones Bank and Reit Portfolio doing this year?  That buy and hold strategy paying off for your clients...  Since I never see published results on the analyst stock picks anywhere I can't seem to find out.  Remind anyone of watching Lucent go from 80 to 8 (or lower I can't actually remember) before the analysts downgraded it to a hold.....

compliancejerk's picture
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not to mention
Enron
Nortel
WorldComm
Baldwin United.....(shows how dated I am)

Roadhard's picture
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Joined: 2007-02-23

Come on guys give Jones a break--they did recommend to sell Boeing about a year ago didn't they?  How about that sell they did on MO in 1999 at $18--what a call!

new_indy's picture
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They had to make that MO call, they sell so many American Funds they were overweighting their clients... 

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Actually the BA sell was a couple of years ago.  Kind of funny that on the current Jones opinion of BA they say (paraphrased) "We blew it."  Jones never had an opinion on Enron. 
The bank and REIT portfolio you're talking about is probably the Equity Income Buy List.  There are only 2 banks (BAC, USB) and 2 REITS (DRE, WRI) on it.   Overall, the portfolio has done well if you take a buy and hold approach.  
 
Baldwin United was a bond issuer.  Not a stock.  And it may be the only bond Jones ever underwrote that has defaulted.  I don't remember hearing about any others.
 
If you're gonna play that game, why don't you include some other firm's worst mistakes.  What firms got stung the worst by Enron?  What firms got hit hard with LP losses 20 years ago?  What firms recently got beaten up because of hedge funds?  There are a lot of bad decisions out there.  Look hard enough and you'll find them everywhere.     

compliancejerk's picture
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sapceman,
 
here you go highjacking a prefectly good anti -EJ post and try to turn it into anything butt. And yes enron was a pick

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Hijacking?  Really?  You didn't read the topic line very well then.  Cause it started as a Jones thread.  Actually, one making fun of a specific list of stocks that Jones suggests for people looking for dividend income.  If that's not a Jones thread, I don't know what is.  You can attact all you like, but in this case you are W-R-O-N-G.   

Borker Boy's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-09

I see a couple options here:
1. Continue this game of essentially throwing darts at a dartboard to decide what to buy and when to sell; or,
2. Invest our clients' money in a portfolio of index funds and spend our time managing our investors.
 
The more I research this business, the more I realize how futile it is to try and time the market.
 
But as long as there's money to be made, it will continue...
 
 
 
 

Roadhard's picture
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Hey, Spiff--Enron was a pick!!!!

new_indy's picture
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That's funny!  Jones using index funds...ETFs.... how would they pay for trips.....

outofjail's picture
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Joined: 2007-12-11

Is Onion head still the cheif equity idiot at the cult

MISS JONES's picture
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outofjail wrote:Is Onion head still the cheif equity idiot at the cult
 
Onion head??? Ha Ha Ha Ha
 
That made me crack up.. You mean Alan Skrainka? Yes...

outofjail's picture
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You got it! "BUY AND HOLD AND PRAY TO GOD NOTHING CHANGES IN THIS WORLD"! especially the price of Lucent@ $76.50. How bout some Rogaine?

Indyone's picture
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Spiff, I don't know if they underwrote it, but EDJ sold a boat-load of bonds from a firm called Energy Management Corp. or something similar in the early 80's that defaulted.  I know this well because my father and grandfather both bought the piece of garbage and settled in a class action for about a nickel on the dollar.  If I remember right, it paid about 14%, which was fairly typical for that time-frame.

new_indy's picture
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Yup that dre recommended buy at 47 was brilliant!

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Indy, I don't either.  I've not heard of that one.  It was well before my time.  Anytime you look into an investment company's past you are going to find those bad recommendations. 
 
If anyone can find an analyst team that has a perfect record of calling the top and bottom, I'm all ears.  I'll admit Jones is slow to make a change in their opinions.  That's why I like looking at S&P, Yahoo, and Morningstar too.  At least that way I can get more than one recommendation. 
 
Does LPL have an analyst team or a model stock portfolio?  I tried to look online for one, but hmm...your website is down.  Now that doesn't help me as an interested investor.  Maybe they should keep an extra 1% and pay for a better IT dept.   One of you guys should really tell them about that. 

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

Yes we do have a research dept and I just got on the site...what is your problem.  Maybe its blocked by your great firm, not good use of the 1%.

new_indy's picture
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Sorry, guess again! Not LPL but they do in fact have a research team.  They aren't bad.  Sure every firm has a list of "gee I wish I wouldn't have recommended's" but many firms say oops we blew it before it gets really ugly.  It will take some significant time, if at all, for the investors to recoup their losses on companies like C,DRE,BAC (not so much), and others.  Sometimes you just have to say "we were wrong" and move on.

compliancejerk's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:Actually the BA sell was a couple of years ago.  Kind of funny that on the current Jones opinion of BA they say (paraphrased) "We blew it."  Jones never had an opinion on Enron. 
The bank and REIT portfolio you're talking about is probably the Equity Income Buy List.  There are only 2 banks (BAC, USB) and 2 REITS (DRE, WRI) on it.   Overall, the portfolio has done well if you take a buy and hold approach.  
 
Baldwin United was a bond issuer.  Not a stock.  And it may be the only bond Jones ever underwrote that has defaulted.  I don't remember hearing about any others.
 
If you're gonna play that game, why don't you include some other firm's worst mistakes.  What firms got stung the worst by Enron?  What firms got hit hard with LP losses 20 years ago?  What firms recently got beaten up because of hedge funds?  There are a lot of bad decisions out there.  Look hard enough and you'll find them everywhere.     
 
spacepuppy,
I guess sarcasm is not a required subject for continuing ed at your "regional firm"
you are correct sir United Balwin is not a stock but it was "pushed" by your firm none-the-less.
 
Give it time and your firm "will be in play".
ube not making money north of the border or across the pond. How long do you think the GPs will paly along with that???
this is an anti EJ thread and here you go trying to hijack it into any but.
 
as far as buy and hold concept "has done well" what sort of time frame are you looking at
6, 12, 18 or 24 months...... I think you are looking at 5, 10 or even 20 year time periods aren't you????
 
underwriten doesn't that suggest that there is a .....gasp ANOTHER profit center at your firm......but isn't the indoctrination I mean, gospel I mean promotion that there is BUT ONE profit center and it be called the Investment Representative (or whatever you call yourselves today)??????

exdrone's picture
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Nothing makes me laugh like posts about Jones equity research.  Does Mel Marten, the brillian Jones analyst who had a Strong Buy on WCOM down to the single digits still work for the cult?  I read in his bio once that he was a member of the local Mensa chapter.  My first thought was who cares, but with that WorldCom call it delivered a good laugh. 
Just Curious.  Has the great buy and hold firm maintained a favorable recommendation on WMB over the last 7 years?  It's almost back to even........congratulations!

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Sorry, my bad.  I was thinking buy and hold actually meant buy and hold.  Yes, I was looking at 5 years.  I'll bet if I looked 10 years it would have done well also.  I guess it depends on your philosophy with stocks.  I don't have a huge stock business, so I tend to buy stocks for clients that I think will do well past the 12 or 24 month time frame.  Probably a part of my Jones background.
 
The Jones research team is a value team.  Says so in the IP that gets mailed every month.  "The Edward Jones Research department typically recommends industry leading companies that appear reasonably valued."  There's one Buy recommended stock with a P/E above 25.  The majority of them are stocks with P/Es in the teens.  I know they aren't going to follow everything.  I know they are going to get some things wrong.  I know the same thing happens at ALL of the other firms. 
 
I don't know what kind of money Jones makes on the underwriting.  If they do, I hope it's a bunch.  That takes some of the pressure of the FAs.  I think the one profit center mantra is flawed, but it plays well on TV. 
 
Canada and the UK are growing enterprises.  Just like any startup company it is going to go through years of not being profitable.  The more veteran FAs we have in those countries the more profitable we are going to become.  I'd be willing to bet the GPs are pleased with most of what is going on in Canada and the UK and they're willing to take the returns they are getting right now and wait for bigger and better ones in the future. 
 
I vaguely remember Jones following Williams.  They don't have an opinion on it now.  It's a shame too.  That stock has gone nuts since 2003.  Maybe we should have kept that buy opinion. 
 
Sorry spears - when I tried to go through LPL.com>Investor Education>Stocks and clicked the Stocks link, I got an error message.  I tried several times.  Just tried it again.  Looks like they are trying to send me to Thompson.  Maybe their site is down.  Who knows.  I just thought it was funny that you guys bash the Jones technology and then your site doesn't work right. 
 

new_indy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-28

Well sure...now after the recent performance of all of those "value" stocks the P/E's are in the teens but where were they 8 months ago?  I know, I know....cheap shot.....

exdrone's picture
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Spiff,
 
Looks like you were right lpl.com seems to be down.  Branchnet is working though and thats what matters most.  I will say this for LPL though, when the system went down earlier this year for a number of days heads did roll.  It was done without fanfare and seemed professional, but it was dealt with.  When the great satellite blackout occured I dont recall any fallout for Malone who failed to have a practical contingency plan.  

compliancejerk's picture
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"Canada and the UK are growing enterprises.  Just like any startup company it is going to go through years of not being profitable.  The more veteran FAs we have in those countries the more profitable we are going to become.  I'd be willing to bet the GPs are pleased with most of what is going on in Canada and the UK and they're willing to take the returns they are getting right now and wait for bigger and better ones in the future."
 
Canada has been operational since 1994.  in 2003 there were nearly 600 reps, now they are over 500.  In Quebec there is nearly 1/4 of the population of Canada and there are only 10 reps to service them....
 
UK has been in operation since 1997.  There are 200 or so reps for 61 million people.
 
How long can your GPs afford to call these "startups" from what I've heard the returns have been negative for a long time.

bspears's picture
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Joined: 2006-11-08

My bad Spiffy...site is not functioning.  I did see however this following prompt when I clicked on stocks.."Only enter if your age is 18 or above and or have the permission of your parents"...so I believe the Jones's will never or should never be allowed in...sorry

compliancejerk's picture
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compliancejerk wrote:
"Canada and the UK are growing enterprises.  Just like any startup company it is going to go through years of not being profitable.  The more veteran FAs we have in those countries the more profitable we are going to become.  I'd be willing to bet the GPs are pleased with most of what is going on in Canada and the UK and they're willing to take the returns they are getting right now and wait for bigger and better ones in the future."
 
Canada has been operational since 1994.  in 2003 there were nearly 600 reps, now they are over 500.  In Quebec there is nearly 1/4 of the population of Canada and there are only 10 reps to service them....
 
UK has been in operation since 1997.  There are 200 or so reps for 61 million people.
 
How long can your GPs afford to call these "startups" from what I've heard the returns have been negative for a long time.
 
sapceman spiff when you have a moment could yourespond to this one?
 
Thanks

compliancejerk's picture
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Spaceman Spiff,
 
I am still waiting for a resonse????

troll's picture
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compliancejerk wrote:Spaceman Spiff,
 
I am still waiting for a resonse????What is a 'resonse'?  I just kill myself....Seriously, though, Spiff, I think he might have you on that one.  10 years is an awful long time to hang on to the 'startup' moniker.More importantly, though, who the hell cares?  How does it matter to ANY of us if the big green machine is profitable in the UK or Canada, or what they call it?I don't know about y'all, but I come to this board for two reasons....1.) entertainment2.) potentially money making ideas.Debating the merits of Jones and whether or not their international operations are profitable don't seem to fit under either of those criteria.  The whole 'Jones sucks' refrain is so tired it doesn't even qualify as entertainment any more.And they don't suck, IMO, they just aren't for me.

compliancejerk's picture
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joedabrkr
 
An herd I thought you injured my ritialin s kils

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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compliancejerk wrote:compliancejerk wrote:
"Canada and the UK are growing enterprises.  Just like any startup company it is going to go through years of not being profitable.  The more veteran FAs we have in those countries the more profitable we are going to become.  I'd be willing to bet the GPs are pleased with most of what is going on in Canada and the UK and they're willing to take the returns they are getting right now and wait for bigger and better ones in the future."
 
Canada has been operational since 1994.  in 2003 there were nearly 600 reps, now they are over 500.  In Quebec there is nearly 1/4 of the population of Canada and there are only 10 reps to service them....  -  Yep, you're right.  There have been FAs in Canada since 1994.  6 of them.  Who knows if they're still there.  We crossed the 100 mark in 97, 200 in 99, 400 in 2000, and today we're over 600.  We have a home office building in Toronto that employs hundreds of people.  Sounds kind of like EDJ in 1970.  Jones IRs back then were complaining when there were three Jones guys in one state.  Look where we are now.     
 
UK has been in operation since 1997.  There are 200 or so reps for 61 million people. - Again, you are correct.  8 of them.  100 in 2002 (we hit that mark a couple of times, but finally stayed there in 2002), and today we're at 260.  They actually stopped hiring FAs for the UK for a while to work on getting the overall sales force there healthy.  That's been the toughest nut to crack for Jones.  It's not like MCDs, who open up shops in China and people start marching through the doors.  Just like in Canada, there is a home office in London employs hundreds of people. 
 
How long can your GPs afford to call these "startups" from what I've heard the returns have been negative for a long time. - The GPs can "afford" for them to run indefinitely in the red.  The firm overall is still profitable.  The Canada and UK divisions will hit their stride and will become profitable.  I don't have any idea of the timeline or goals the firm has for them, but there's not a single GP who is in the poorhouse because of what is going on in the UK and Canada. 
 
sapceman spiff when you have a moment could yourespond to this one?
 
Thanks
 
I'll bet there's not a GP at the firm who doesn't wish that things in Canada and the UK were much more profitable.  Heck, as a lowly LP, I wish they were.  It just means my profits are going to look better when they do get there.  How long do you suspect it took for Merrill or Morgan to have profitable divisions in other countries?  A year or two?  My guess is probably not.  My guess would be many years.  But, the overall company was stronger for having that presence internationally whether they were immediately profitable or not.  I will venture a guess to say that Jones will be stronger 30 years from now because of the positive impact on the bottom line of Canada and the UK.   
 
BTW - The "startup" moniker was mine, not something I heard from the home office.   

compliancejerk's picture
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Spaceman Spiff,
 
Thanks for the great response, next time I have a question for you I'll just go read the answer of the Jonestown website.
 
Merry Christmas

bspears's picture
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Spiff, can you refresh my memory.  Had did you merit getting LP??

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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CJ - did you expect a different answer?  You begged me for an answer, so don't complain about what you get. 
 
spears - Years in the home office.  My office should, no will, be profitable enough by the next offering for my years in the field. 

compliancejerk's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:CJ - did you expect a different answer?  You begged me for an answer, so don't complain about what you get. 
 
D'OH!!!! I didn't even see that answer coming ..... someone must have spiked the Vodka Martini again.
 
Merry Kawnza, Happy Eid etc etc

 

noggin's picture
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:CJ - did you expect a different answer?  You begged me for an answer, so don't complain about what you get. 
 
spears - Years in the home office.  My office should, no will, be profitable enough by the next offering for my years in the field. 
See that is why some of us who built our offices from scratch have less respect for a guy like you. Try building your office from scratch and qualifying for LP by actually producing revenue......

new_indy's picture
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Joined: 2007-03-28

If I have one problem with Jones, and I don't really think about them that often, it is illustrated every time I come on these forums (which is about once every couple of months).  There seems to be a strange arrogance, even in the face of failure, that permeates the IR's.  A refusal to back down and admit there are other ways, other products than preferred funds, and other companies that do "the right thing".  I was a guy that started and Jones and built from scratch.  Won the pacesetters award...the whole bit. Then I realized I was not a business owner, did not rule my own destiny, and was working within a system I didn't believe in.  I still have friends that work at Jones, they are happy and I am happy for them.  It just simply didn't fit me or my clients.

donatello's picture
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This is my first posting, but I couldn't help thinking about how bad Jones is really doing. I had a conversation with our VP of recruiting yesterday, and Jones has lost 20 $300k+ (on AVG) producers to our firm this year as of Nov 07. This is one firm, out of HOW MANY? I appreciate all my old Jones buddies that I went to kindergarten with, but wake up man! College is more fun! I think the reason Jones' people are so arrogant is the ignorance that is pounded in the brain starting with the recruiting process. I mostly just feel sorry for Eddie Jones. I've been gone almost two years, and I have to say, I will out produce 95% of my old region this year. How do I know---people still call me and tell me about the "dot race"! What a great business!

BigPayDay's picture
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Interesting:

No REITS in the EJ Model Portfolio and only 15% in financials:

Take a look - http://www.edwardjones.com/graphics/usa/pdf/strategy_reports/RES-1289-A_model_for_your_stocks.pdf

This data was as of June 2007.

BigPayDay's picture
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donatello wrote: This is my first posting, but I couldn't help thinking about how bad Jones is really doing. I had a conversation with our VP of recruiting yesterday, and Jones has lost 20 $300k+ (on AVG) producers to our firm this year as of Nov 07. This is one firm, out of HOW MANY? I appreciate all my old Jones buddies that I went to kindergarten with, but wake up man! College is more fun! I think the reason Jones' people are so arrogant is the ignorance that is pounded in the brain starting with the recruiting process. I mostly just feel sorry for Eddie Jones. I've been gone almost two years, and I have to say, I will out produce 95% of my old region this year. How do I know---people still call me and tell me about the "dot race"! What a great business!

OK Joker,

Take a look at this:

http://www.edwardjones.com/cgi/getData.cgi?file=/pdf/media/branch_locations.pdf

By year end we will be around 11,000 globally. I think Jones is doing just fine.

troll's picture
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BigPayDay wrote: donatello wrote: This is my first posting, but I couldn't help thinking about how bad Jones is really doing. I had a conversation with our VP of recruiting yesterday, and Jones has lost 20 $300k+ (on AVG) producers to our firm this year as of Nov 07. This is one firm, out of HOW MANY? I appreciate all my old Jones buddies that I went to kindergarten with, but wake up man! College is more fun! I think the reason Jones' people are so arrogant is the ignorance that is pounded in the brain starting with the recruiting process. I mostly just feel sorry for Eddie Jones. I've been gone almost two years, and I have to say, I will out produce 95% of my old region this year. How do I know---people still call me and tell me about the "dot race"! What a great business!

OK Joker,

Take a look at this:

http://www.edwardjones.com/cgi/getData.cgi?file=/pdf/media/branch_locations.pdf

By year end we will be around 11,000 globally. I think Jones is doing just fine.BPD-Weren't you all pissed off about a year ago and posted about how the Big Green Machine had screwed you over and you were outta there?What happened, did they promise you GP?

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BPD-I'm glad you could provide a website that proves you are recruiting. I didn't say you aren't adding brokers---all about 25 years old and never had a real job before. That sounds like trouble to me. 11,000 $200k brokers isn't my idea of success or a firm that's doing well. What's the average production at Eddie right now?

Maxstud's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:
BPD-Weren't you all pissed off about a year ago and posted about how the Big Green Machine had screwed you over and you were outta there?What happened, did they promise you GP?That was Bill Falkland

troll's picture
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Maxstud wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:
BPD-Weren't you all pissed off about a year ago and posted about how the Big Green Machine had screwed you over and you were outta there?What happened, did they promise you GP?That was Bill FalklandYou're absolutely right.  I stand corrected.I wonder what happened to ole' Bill.  It would be interesting to hear the sequel.

Maxstud's picture
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joedabrkr wrote:
Maxstud wrote:
joedabrkr wrote:
BPD-Weren't you all pissed off about a year ago and posted about how the Big Green Machine had screwed you over and you were outta there?What happened, did they promise you GP?That was Bill FalklandYou're absolutely right.  I stand corrected.I wonder what happened to ole' Bill.  It would be interesting to hear the sequel.Agreed.

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donatello wrote: BPD-I'm glad you could provide a website that proves you are recruiting. I didn't say you aren't adding brokers---all about 25 years old and never had a real job before. That sounds like trouble to me. 11,000 $200k brokers isn't my idea of success or a firm that's doing well. What's the average production at Eddie right now?

Ok Donatello, sounds like you are an indy. Maybe LPL. How many reps does LPL have now? 6, 7, 8 maybe 9,000. How many would you say are over $100k gross? Take a look:

http://www.investmentnews.com/assets/docs/CI16801423.PDF

Could it be possible that half of LPL brokers are grossing less than $100k?

Indyone's picture
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Who, knows, large, peanut-encrusted candy bar...and who cares.  I'm indy at LPL...grossing $300K and keeping over $200K.  Apparently LPL is willing to work with small producers while able to work with multi-million dollar producers.  I looked at your firm.  The technology and offerings were, to put it mildly, lacking when compared to LPL or even most other firms.  The freedom was lacking.  The payout was lacking.  I was recruited four times by four different EDJers and the decision was easy all four times.  The only plus I saw at Jones was availability of local muni bonds.
 
With most of us here, you're wasting your time trying to convince us that your firm is an attractive alternative.  I may again change B/Ds in my career, but unless things change dramatically at EDJ, I won't be changing to your firm.

BigPayDay's picture
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Indyone,
Not trying to convince anyone Jones is better than indy or LPL, justing letting donatello know that if he wants to start talking about firms with average productions that are low, he should look at his own firm and the largest indy firms, that's all. I have friends at RJ and LPL and they are happy there. They do miss the trips and the comraderie (sp.) that they had at Jones and they say their net, net pay out is in the mid to high 60s range. Both have about half of their production coming from fee based with a full time assistant.

donatello's picture
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BPD-The only person I know at LPL is netting 90k per month. He showed me him paycheck. Some may miss the trips, but not me. Nothing is more revolting than a bunch of wannabees in a room telling everyone how good they are and puffing up their chests. Where I work, we know how good you are. It's posted every day. No more to say after that.

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BigPayDay wrote:Indyone, Not trying to convince anyone Jones is better than indy or LPL, justing letting donatello know that if he wants to start talking about firms with average productions that are low, he should look at his own firm and the largest indy firms, that's all. I have friends at RJ and LPL and they are happy there. They do miss the trips and the comraderie (sp.) that they had at Jones and they say their net, net pay out is in the mid to high 60s range. Both have about half of their production coming from fee based with a full time assistant.
 
(picking jaw up off the floor) That's probably one of the most fair and balanced replies I've ever seen from you...what got into you...Christmas spirit?!!  You've completely disarmed me and thus I have no witty retort (I think you even spelled "camraderie" right).  
 
I guess I'll just wish you a Happy New Year...
 
(PS, you really should look into what your indy friends have...it's a pretty good gig...)

bspears's picture
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I've said it before and will say it again.  WE DON"T NEED ANYMORE INDY'S!!!  We have a good thing and I would like to keep it that way.  Jones is the greatest company in the world, along with UBS, SB, Merril and Wachovedwards...Indy is a terrible way to make a living and the hours suck, the time off sucks...everything sucks about being indy.  Wirehouse and little bitty regionals are the best. 

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noggin wrote:Spaceman Spiff wrote:CJ - did you expect a different answer?  You begged me for an answer, so don't complain about what you get. 
 
spears - Years in the home office.  My office should, no will, be profitable enough by the next offering for my years in the field. 
See that is why some of us who built our offices from scratch have less respect for a guy like you. Try building your office from scratch and qualifying for LP by actually producing revenue......
 
Sorry, noggin, but in this case you are wrong.  The LP I got didn't have anything to do with my office.  I left the home office a few months before the LP came out.  I was fully expecting to get skipped on that offering because I left for the field and my office wasn't anywhere near profitable enough for LP.  I was really suprised when they called and offered me a small chunk of LP because of the years I had spent in in the home office that would have otherwise been ignored.  Had I thought about it a little bit longer, I should have waited until after the LP offering to go to the field. 
 
You can have a little less respect for me because you believe that taking over a small office is the same as winning the lottery if you feel like it.  But don't get uptight about my LP offering. 

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