Forefront

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skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

I just received my forefront standing as of may 31. It indicates only 4 households have been competed but so far I have done about 56 envision and have plan of record for key qualified household over 250k. What am I missing. Client presentation generated? Anyone have any feedback?

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Testicles. 

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

That's really funny. Great response. A response that my 12 year old would come up with.

FawnLiebowitz's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-31

sk.  any "plans" you have done in june are not on the may report (obviously).  also, you must print out the envision report or email to your client (big bro is watching).  other than that, the report should tell you why you're missing any plans you've done up until may but aren't getting credit for (i.e. if you have an old plan that hasn't been updated in the last 12 months, you need to update it).  good luck.

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

thanks for the info.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Also be sure to look at annuity net and see if you have any annuities that are not linked to brokerage and can be. This could add to your assets in a big way. I had a client at 220k and discovered his 68k annuity not linked into brokerage. Instant new qualified HH with 268k in assets. Also, you may have a lot of clients with sizable cash on bank side. Perhaps they will do a short term CD in the brokerage. get a few more bps for them and a new qualified HH for forefront. Created over 1 mill in new HH last week this way. I look at the HH with say 150k to 249k. Look at the bank side and see if there is anything there that can be put into bkg like short term CD. Lot of potential there. Obviously client must authorize any movement of funds to brokerage. Also, those reports all lag. Mine all wrong as well. I know I have 56 HH qualified and done. I have printed the the page that shows the client scores and that it is a POR and the date the plan generated. So any discrepancies and I will be able to prove what I did. Day prior to snapshot I will go through all again and make sure they are in good order. 

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

This is all good information. Thanks. I know we can track envision on my book but is there also way to see the updated progress on forefront on smartstation?

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

sk...i dont thinks so. Not live anyway. You just need to know yourself where you stand. Im sure I have done what needs to be done and anything to the contrary come June 30th, barring the market collapsing and taking my hh down below the 250k, I will be battling them over it.  

FawnLiebowitz's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-31

sk, there is a way on smart station to track your plans that is somewhat updated.  i think they update it weekly.  it's somewhere around advisor tab then bus. development, then i think there's an env. plan detail link...i think.  it's not as detailed as the report you just got via email on 4front, but it's very helpful.  on monday, call your internal (or external) regional whatever they're called reps and have them work with you on these reports.  they should help to make sure you're getting it all done.

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

thanks guys. It's nice to see this forum work the way it's supposed to

Redpen's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-07

  Do what they say and  this keeps them out of arbitration and the money is worth it. You are now an employee not a business owner. Congratulations.

Bud  Fox's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-20

What if a client refuses to change any or all of his holdings over to the proposed model in Envision?  Can you still use this hhld and make it a plan of record and get paid on it? or will the firm fire you for not churning the clients allocated assets to closely mimic the proposed model if you got paid in forefront for doing so?  Not one person has been able to give me a clear answer on this or even direct me to the language in the rules addressing this concern of mine.      Hmmmmm, I wonder why   

go_huskies's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-11

the model merely reflects your recommendations. clients don't have to move in order for the plan to be a por.  it essentially is a 'track to run on'
 
think about it, even if you mirrored the model, within a few trading days the client's portfolio would already be out of alignment.
 
por indicates that you've provided the service, and in my understanding, that's what mgmt is looking for.
 
all the outcry about forefront and envision is wasted energy. envision is no panacea, but it's a good process. the program provides a tarp-friendly way for a bonus while educating your clients.

FawnLiebowitz's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-31

Level 1 4front is just doing the basic plan.  No need for implementation, no need for fee based/advisory platform investments, and no need to think you'll be fired.  Just answer a couple questions on the Envision plan and you're done...make it a por and print it out or email it to the client.  No offense, but I can't believe you have these questions on 6/24/2009.  Your branch, complex and reg. mgrs have let you down.  Your external and internal "consultants" (whatever they're called) have let you down as well.  All of the above have been in constant contact with me and my entire branch to clarify any questions and help in any way they can since day 1 of this.  You sound like you've been left for dead wherever you are.  

Bud  Fox's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-20

No, you cannot assume I have been left for dead.  I have been extremely busy on the phone and in front of clients. You probably have at least heard of this thing called buying, selling, transferring in accounts.  I simply have spent my time doing these things and not sitting in on forefront conference calls and pep rallys given by the managers and especially the Ludeman banter calls.  I can assume that is why I am one of the only brokers in my branch that has an increasing t12 for the last 18 months.  I understand the basics of this forefront.  The problem is that there are some major hidden nutcrackers somewhere and none of you clowns have yet exposed them. My thought is they will be exposed when you get the contract to sign for the next 9 years of your life that won't start ticking until Sept 2010. You will be on the meathook until Sept 2019.  The majority of the AGE guys still here spent their retention just like most of you will spend the forefront right away.  I guess I'll wait to see how it works out for everyone else before I jump into the abyss.  Remember, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

FawnLiebowitz's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-31

Wow Bud, I just tried to answer your question.  Not sure I asked for an update on how bus. is or if you're the greatest rainmaker of all time.  I had assumed you had been "left for dead" because the rules of 4front can be understood in about 5-10 minutes.  Also, isn't it obvious that any time you sign a contract with a wirehouse it's filled with "nutcrackers" galore? 

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Bud Fox wrote: No, you cannot assume I have been left for dead.  I have been extremely busy on the phone and in front of clients. You probably have at least heard of this thing called buying, selling, transferring in accounts.  I simply have spent my time doing these things and not sitting in on forefront conference calls and pep rallys given by the managers and especially the Ludeman banter calls.  I can assume that is why I am one of the only brokers in my branch that has an increasing t12 for the last 18 months.  I understand the basics of this forefront.  The problem is that there are some major hidden nutcrackers somewhere and none of you clowns have yet exposed them. My thought is they will be exposed when you get the contract to sign for the next 9 years of your life that won't start ticking until Sept 2010. You will be on the meathook until Sept 2019.  The majority of the AGE guys still here spent their retention just like most of you will spend the forefront right away.  I guess I'll wait to see how it works out for everyone else before I jump into the abyss.  Remember, if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.

So what. My T12 is up from last year AND I've done all my 4front plans. I'll be on the "meathook" exactly as long as I want. I can still leave the day after I get my check.

YHWY's picture
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Joined: 2007-07-18

 You guys need to understand: Ferris's gross is shooting skyward (over $800k as of the last reporting I read) year after year regardless of market conditions. He had "all of his top clients" in Treasuries by the end of Feb. 2008. He got exactly the retention he wanted and knew he would get through Forefront and he is poised to leave AGE/C/WS/Wells as soon as the firm does something really, really bad. As I've said on other threads, he's the only one we need to read. He knows everything.

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All true except I'm not poised to leave.    Don't be a hater yee wee

clang's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-23

Good luck to you forefront boys, but now I've become very curious to see the kinks and landmines wells eventually uncovers. Its like the roadshow/wholesaler that takes you to Mortons for dinner. The better the food, the bigger the tuurd they want you to sell.

Bud  Fox's picture
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Joined: 2008-07-20

FawnLiebowitz wrote:Wow Bud, I just tried to answer your question.  Not sure I asked for an update on how bus. is or if you're the greatest rainmaker of all time.  I had assumed you had been "left for dead" because the rules of 4front can be understood in about 5-10 minutes.  Also, isn't it obvious that any time you sign a contract with a wirehouse it's filled with "nutcrackers" galore?  No offense to you.  I know this all is understandable in 5 minutes and that is what has me on edge over the whole thing.  I am just so distrustful of this firm anymore that this whole thing seems like a filet mignon sitting on a mousetrap.  We have been told so many different things by the same people in the last two years and not much of it has panned out except that Danny boy is very proud of us.   I say show me the money and it just feels like forefront is showing me the money too easily.  I hope I am wrong and everyone can laugh at me, but we will all be better for it then.  If I am right we will all be pissing blood.  One big question I have.  Why is there such a low participation rate in the whole forefront deal?  Envision help desk said it was only around 20% a couple weeks ago when I talked to them.  I guess everyone is waiting til the last minute?!

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Bud Fox wrote: FawnLiebowitz wrote:Wow Bud, I just tried to answer your question.  Not sure I asked for an update on how bus. is or if you're the greatest rainmaker of all time.  I had assumed you had been "left for dead" because the rules of 4front can be understood in about 5-10 minutes.  Also, isn't it obvious that any time you sign a contract with a wirehouse it's filled with "nutcrackers" galore?  No offense to you.  I know this all is understandable in 5 minutes and that is what has me on edge over the whole thing.  I am just so distrustful of this firm anymore that this whole thing seems like a filet mignon sitting on a mousetrap.  We have been told so many different things by the same people in the last two years and not much of it has panned out except that Danny boy is very proud of us.   I say show me the money and it just feels like forefront is showing me the money too easily.  I hope I am wrong and everyone can laugh at me, but we will all be better for it then.  If I am right we will all be pissing blood.  One big question I have.  Why is there such a low participation rate in the whole forefront deal?  Envision help desk said it was only around 20% a couple weeks ago when I talked to them.  I guess everyone is waiting til the last minute?!

A guy in my office today summed it up. He's not doing the plans because he's scrambling to do business and put food on the table. I'm willing to bet that there is a lot higher participation rate with premier advisors due to getting 75bps out of the gate.

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

Bud Fox wrote:FawnLiebowitz wrote:Wow Bud, I just tried to answer your question.  Not sure I asked for an update on how bus. is or if you're the greatest rainmaker of all time.  I had assumed you had been "left for dead" because the rules of 4front can be understood in about 5-10 minutes.  Also, isn't it obvious that any time you sign a contract with a wirehouse it's filled with "nutcrackers" galore?  No offense to you.  I know this all is understandable in 5 minutes and that is what has me on edge over the whole thing.  I am just so distrustful of this firm anymore that this whole thing seems like a filet mignon sitting on a mousetrap.  We have been told so many different things by the same people in the last two years and not much of it has panned out except that Danny boy is very proud of us.   I say show me the money and it just feels like forefront is showing me the money too easily.  I hope I am wrong and everyone can laugh at me, but we will all be better for it then.  If I am right we will all be pissing blood.  One big question I have.  Why is there such a low participation rate in the whole forefront deal?  Envision help desk said it was only around 20% a couple weeks ago when I talked to them.  I guess everyone is waiting til the last minute?!
 
Out of about 22 in a local shop from what I hear only 2 have done it. 

Ernie Olde's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-21

Ferris Bueller wrote: Bud Fox wrote:

A guy in my office today summed it up. He's not doing the plans because he's scrambling to do business and put food on the table. I'm willing to bet that there is a lot higher participation rate with premier advisors due to getting 75bps out of the gate.You are right about the higher participation rates for premier advisors, not only higher payout but the staff to get these plans done while continuing to do business.  Did over 1mil last year.  So for me 75bps day one.  Easy money and I plan on sticking with the company anyway, so why not.  I also believe that your t12 is up.  I have seen how well received these plans are, clients love them and will make changes to their portfolio accordingly.  While mine is not up, I converted lots of dead assets to fee based (the changes to syndicate have hurt the production versus last year).  It might just be they way I see it, but these plans help funnel people to fee based.  And knowing WS, that IS part of the whole plan.  So let the market recovery happen because my team and I have worked hard to come out of this stronger than ever.I understand the concern that the plans make the clients sticky to the company, but I think clients have become stickier to me.  The company has changed names from AGE to WS to WFCA, to my clients I have been the only constant.  I think that has made them stickier to me.  No hiding under the desk.  These plans made us talk to clients at a time when they wanted someone to talk to.  I wanted the forefront money.  I will get over half a million, but using this opportunity already has reaped so many more benefits.  Some clients have already told their friends about how they came in to see me and formed more of a plan than they ever had.  The friends had not heard from their brokers.  I guarentee they will hear from their new broker - I have already met with them twice.  Once for the plan and once for the ACAT.Don't do them if you don't want.  I really don't care.  But don't hate those of us who are doing them.  It is so true - the harder I work the luckier I am.  And Envision is really not even that hard.Ernie Olde

FawnLiebowitz's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-31

Bud Fox...I get it.  You AGE guys have been through an awful lot.  Us legacy WB guys had an easy advantage going into this b/c we've been using envision for years.  Good luck to you.  I hope in time this all works out.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

2 days left. I dont think there is any question as to if they will pay or not. Too bad a lot of FA's have not done them. To not pay or change the payout structure after the cutoff would be disastrous for them imo. While I think a 9 yr handcuff is sort of laughable considering the deals you could get elsewhere, my view is Im not planning on leaving anyway, so may as well make the best of it. If they suddenly start making radical detrimental changes after the cuffs are on, then we can just take a deal and leave and pay back the money. I have been successful in using the plans to gain business. It may not be the most sophisticated thing out there, but it serves a purpose if used properly. Nothing difficult about it. Just have to get used to the presentation of it, whats important and what can be skipped over and very quickly you will have it down pat.

go_huskies's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-11

tier 1 is a continuous process. if you don't get at least 25 plans in by 6/30, you can get them done for the next window 9/30, then 12/31 and so on thru 6/30/2010.  the payout is retro to boot.
 
i understand many are reluctant after all we've been thru. checks being paid without hassel in september should motivate the troops.  i converted 30+ plans i already had for the 1st snapshot.  i'll have a balance of 50+ by september, anticipating they don't play games.
 
the firm loses big if they screw this up...and they know it

Wheat-ie's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-19

I agree: just do it. If you leave, so what...you'll get a far greater % and you just pay it back...an interest free loan so to speak.

Envision takes no time at all--just fill in the short questionnaire, which is 2 pages, and you'll have the basics in place to begin the Plan of Record.

Not to mention, when i finished my plans to max my award, i had ALSO qualified already for 4front level II...which is another $50k in my deferred comp pot.

This is not a bad deal; the firm will pay. Forget the 'conspiracy theories'.

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

i had ALSO qualified already for 4front level II...which is another $50k in my deferred comp pot.*****************************Huh?? what are you talking about?

Redpen's picture
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Joined: 2005-08-07

some of you guys sound like homebuyers with no money down interest only and stated income two years ago.

Chazzy's picture
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Joined: 2009-04-08

3rd ID wrote:i had ALSO qualified already for 4front level II...which is another $50k in my deferred comp pot.*****************************Huh?? what are you talking about?
 
You dont even know your own comp plan do you??

Wheat-ie's picture
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3rd ID wrote: i had ALSO qualified already for 4front level II...which is another $50k in my deferred comp pot.*****************************Huh?? what are you talking about?

Level II is another tier of 4front award, actually from the original 4front plan rolled out 2-3 years back: the awards are paid via deferred comp, though.

BE PATIENT's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

Just heard from friend that Wells backing out of Forefront by saying all envisions have to look custom or no payment. If you just through the numbers together they arent paying. I knew they would find a way to screw you. So glad I am gone.

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

Nice. I just got off the phone with ludeman and wells have decided to double the loan amount for the forefront. I love wells Fargo.   By the way be patient stop wasting your time with your garbage comments

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

is that rumor as concrete as the wells fargo retention you have been boasting about for months?  

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

SK.  There is also a new 4Front report coming online for you which will be available in Analysis Workbook under the Advisor Tab on SmartStation.  Should be available on Monday.  Hopefully, it will be helpful to you.

Anonymous's picture
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BE PATIENT wrote: So glad I am gone.

Too bad you're still here as well. You have zero credibility, everything that you have predicted has been complete bullsh*t.

BE PATIENT's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

Dont listen to me, check with your envision coordinator dumb f***. Call monday morning, you are in for a big surprise.

WORLD PEACE's picture
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Joined: 2009-05-01

BE PATIENT wrote:Just heard from friend that Wells backing out of Forefront by saying all envisions have to look custom or no payment. If you just through the numbers together they arent paying. I knew they would find a way to screw you. So glad I am gone.
 
 
OK  I knwo Be Patient has little credibilty here......but
 
I know a gal who works in StL for WS (wfa). 
A ton of Envivions have come through done VERY half assed.    It looks obvious that guys/gays are just doing them to get them done.   The lawyers are shi%$#ing bricks because of complaince angle   (info done on system-lawsuits down the road).
DL et al know the sensitive nature of the fact FA's  got screwed with out a real retention
The lawyers want bag whole program or start disallowing crap enviions and the forefront dollars.  (to protect them down the road legally)
DL knows how much this will stir things up again.  something coming soon.
the girl i know BS's with a girl who works for head lawyer dude.   she reads all his stuff.  the lawyers have all discussed cancelling forefront all together.  danny went nuts 
danny wants nothign done.
i got no dog in the fight

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

Man if that is true...lol

skbroker's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-16

Wow. You are one confused douchbag.

fritz's picture
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Joined: 2006-01-12

nestegg wrote:Man if that is true...lol
 
Guess we know now why there was the "opportunity" to sign for extending contracts for 4 more years!!!  .."Sorry guys about the forefront issues, but the good news is you are signed up through 2017!!!"

BE PATIENT's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

Everything World Peace said is true except lawyers wanting to cancel forefront. Envision dept. has identified the brokers where everyones plans came back at 99 or 100, where everything looks the same. Cookie cutter for each plan. They will either make you redo it and pay you as of end of Sept or if bad enough may tell you to take a leap

showmethemoney's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-09

If this true I can Envision hundreds of resignations very soon. 

go_huskies's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-11

my understanding is that anyone submitting contrived envisions would be considered to be misrepresenting the comp plan and be terminated.
 
the guys should be thankful if they merely have to redo their 'cookie cutter' plans.
 
regardless, these posts are blowing things out of proportion.  i guess it should be expected with BE PATIENT involved.
 

BE PATIENT's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-16

go huskies. You better hope you didnt leave it to your assistant to do. You might get a swift kick in the butt come Monday morning when your envision says "0".

3rd ID's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-30

Thanks for ruining my weekend. Worked hard on those Envisions. Been doing them for years anyway. Now I gotta worry about this sh*t all over again? Did exactly as I was told to do and more. All my scores in the 80s or high 70's. I usually try to keep them in the mid 80's anyway. They pull the plug on this one and its over. Good grief.

HenryTryoone's picture
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Joined: 2009-07-18

I heard from a home office friend that they were also going to see if they were all done in the last week of the month and also question if they were valid plans.  I am even more worried about the ongoing administrative headaches at the home office.  We continue to deal with clueless people at the call centers.

nestegg's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-14

showmethemoney wrote:If this true I can Envision hundreds of resignations very soon. 
If you put up with the BS to this point...what difference will this make?

go_huskies's picture
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Joined: 2008-12-11

been using envision for several years, i'm not worried.
 
that said, if they blow this...

Anonymous's picture
Anonymous

3rd ID wrote: Thanks for ruining my weekend. Worked hard on those Envisions. Been doing them for years anyway. Now I gotta worry about this sh*t all over again? Did exactly as I was told to do and more. All my scores in the 80s or high 70's. I usually try to keep them in the mid 80's anyway. They pull the plug on this one and its over. Good grief.

Why let these retard fuksticks ruin it then? Has anything they have posted ever come true? If you did your plans by the rules then you are ok. I heard that there was a VERY low participation rate on these and many brokers didn't bother doing any for the first snapshot. Relax and don't let some faceless clowns on the internet pull your chain.

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