EJ # 1 ???

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Effay's picture
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Joined: 2008-04-11

 
 
I left EJ 6 weeks ago.
 
It's been going reasonably well, despite what Jones has been doing; pretty much standing in my way as much as they legally can.
And maybe not so legal, like having a retired BOA come in to the office and call clients, telling them she didnt think they should leave EJ.
Registered letters accusing me of taking files, which I didnt (I have heard this is pretty standard behavior for Jones).
Oh, and the new FA lying to clients about what I will do with their portfolios, what my fees will be, what kind of tax problems I will cause, etc. etc.
 
What a sh*t heel firm EJ is. Amazing what you learn about your company when you leave. No wonder ex Jones guys hate Jones!
It is truly a relief to be out from under the extremely limited investment options, the built in conflict of interest having "preferred funds" and revenue sharing creates, mediocre research and downright 1990s technology (and thats AFTER the recent upgrade).
 
So, Jones folks, glad you are happy. Keep nursing at that EJ titty, cause you are going to be getting less and less milk from Mama... Suck Hard, the writing is on the wall. 

Moraen's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-22

Effay wrote:  
 
I left EJ 6 weeks ago.
 
It's been going reasonably well, despite what Jones has been doing; pretty much standing in my way as much as they legally can.
And maybe not so legal, like having a retired BOA come in to the office and call clients, telling them she didnt think they should leave EJ.
Registered letters accusing me of taking files, which I didnt (I have heard this is pretty standard behavior for Jones).
Oh, and the new FA lying to clients about what I will do with their portfolios, what my fees will be, what kind of tax problems I will cause, etc. etc.
 
What a sh*t heel firm EJ is. Amazing what you learn about your company when you leave. No wonder ex Jones guys hate Jones!
It is truly a relief to be out from under the extremely limited investment options, the built in conflict of interest having "preferred funds" and revenue sharing creates, mediocre research and downright 1990s technology (and thats AFTER the recent upgrade).
 
So, Jones folks, glad you are happy. Keep nursing at that EJ titty, cause you are going to be getting less and less milk from Mama... Suck Hard, the writing is on the wall. 

Let it all out man. It helps.

voltmoie's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-05

Did you not expect them to try and retain their clients while you tried to steal them? Do you need a blankie?
 
I hope in 2.5 years if I leave Jone's I'm not back here bitching about them playing hardball with me.  MAN up brother ... and best of luck!  I hope you kill it.

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

Kind of related...but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the 'preferred funds.'  At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?

Moraen's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-22

voltmoie wrote: Did you not expect them to try and retain their clients while you tried to steal them? Do you need a blankie?
 
I hope in 2.5 years if I leave Jone's I'm not back here bitching about them playing hardball with me.  MAN up brother ... and best of luck!  I hope you kill it.

The only reason you won't bitch about them playing hardball is because you said you hope you won't be.

I think he is talking about underhanded methods that Jones uses. They try to use their pet law firm to intimidate you, and the advisor who takes over your branch talks about things he knows nothing about, "He's going to charge you on stuff you already paid for, like 2% or more. Why would you do that Mr. Client. We've got this great advisory solutions program, let's put you in that. It'll only cost 1.3% per year!".

If you leave volt, you'll see. It's not about needing a blankie, it's about doing the right thing, which they don't do.

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

Wet_Blanket wrote:Kind of related...but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the 'preferred funds.'  At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
 
There are no restrictions on those or any other fund families.  It is open architecture.  We have selling agreements with like 70 fund families (plus another 20 or so others in our advisory program).  I sell a mix of preferred and non-preferred funds.  I only use the the preferred funds that I like.  I have never once had any pushback on any specific fund family I have used outside of the prefered funds.  All Compliance cares about is that they are sold properly.  And we are slowly (actually quickly) moving away from the "preferred funds" world.  I think Weddle wants to distance himself from some of the "errors" of the past.  This is just one thing among many that he appears to be changing.

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

B24 wrote:Wet_Blanket wrote:Kind of related...but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the 'preferred funds.'  At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
 
There are no restrictions on those or any other fund families.  It is open architecture.  We have selling agreements with like 70 fund families (plus another 20 or so others in our advisory program).  I sell a mix of preferred and non-preferred funds.  I only use the the preferred funds that I like.  I have never once had any pushback on any specific fund family I have used outside of the prefered funds.  All Compliance cares about is that they are sold properly.  And we are slowly (actually quickly) moving away from the "preferred funds" world.  I think Weddle wants to distance himself from some of the "errors" of the past.  This is just one thing among many that he appears to be changing.
 
On a firm level, not a FA level, is there any compensation from the preferred funds to EJ (like a pay to play arrangement)?

Spaceman Spiff's picture
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Joined: 2006-08-08

Yes, there is still a revenue sharing agreement in place with the preferred funds. 
 
I haven't pulled up our mutual fund spreadsheet in a while, until yesterday.  I noticed that there is no longer a separate spreadsheet for our preferred funds and our non preferred funds that we follow.  It's all lumped under one.  I think that echoes what B24 was saying about moving away from the preferred funds.  I don't know that it means that we are moving away from revenue sharing, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. 

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

Seems to me that EJ may want to run this by an ERISA lawyer...if they haven't already.  Good for them for going away from that though.

B24's picture
B24
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Joined: 2008-07-08

I think that has been done, and the answer is, as long as it is disclosed properly.  All of Jones' disclosures now meet the requirements of IRA/FINRA/SEC, etc.
 
On a sidenote, almost all major firms have the same type of revenue-sharing arrangements with fund families.  It is not specific to Jones.

Wet_Blanket's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

I'm not arguing against revenue sharing, I'm just scratching my head about revenue sharing and ERISA accounts (because of the level fee requirement).

skillopie's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

I work for a major wirehouse.
 Recently a new advisor moved to our office. I asked him where he came from and he said "I sold American Funds for 15 years". I said, "oh, you were the American Funds guy?" and he smiled and said "No, I worked for Ed Jones!"

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

Wet_Blanket wrote:B24 wrote:Wet_Blanket wrote:Kind of related...but i was wondering (since you brought it up) about the 'preferred funds.'  At EJ, are you allowed to invest in those in ERISA and individual retirement accounts?
 
There are no restrictions on those or any other fund families.  It is open architecture.  We have selling agreements with like 70 fund families (plus another 20 or so others in our advisory program).  I sell a mix of preferred and non-preferred funds.  I only use the the preferred funds that I like.  I have never once had any pushback on any specific fund family I have used outside of the prefered funds.  All Compliance cares about is that they are sold properly.  And we are slowly (actually quickly) moving away from the "preferred funds" world.  I think Weddle wants to distance himself from some of the "errors" of the past.  This is just one thing among many that he appears to be changing.
 
On a firm level, not a FA level, is there any compensation from the preferred funds to EJ (like a pay to play arrangement)?
 

I have heard from what I consider a reliable source that the revenue sharing bit is compensation for a lot of the "back office" work we do for those preferred funds since we do a lot of volume with a lot of different orders.

Squash1's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-19

They pay for the diversification trips... Rumor has it that Calamos wanted in but they refused to pay the amount Jones wanted to be on the preferred list.

Advisor238's picture
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Joined: 2009-02-25

I will echo what was said earlier. I have sold both preferred and non
preferred funds in my career at EDJ. I have never had any kickback from
anyone about selling nonpreffered funds, nor have I ever been pressured
to sell funds on the preferred list.

MBA2FA's picture
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Joined: 2009-06-01

Effay wrote: 
 
I left EJ 6 weeks ago.
 
It's been going reasonably well, despite what Jones has been doing; pretty much standing in my way as much as they legally can.
And maybe not so legal, like having a retired BOA come in to the office and call clients, telling them she didnt think they should leave EJ.
Registered letters accusing me of taking files, which I didnt (I have heard this is pretty standard behavior for Jones).
Oh, and the new FA lying to clients about what I will do with their portfolios, what my fees will be, what kind of tax problems I will cause, etc. etc.
 
What a sh*t heel firm EJ is. Amazing what you learn about your company when you leave. No wonder ex Jones guys hate Jones!
It is truly a relief to be out from under the extremely limited investment options, the built in conflict of interest having "preferred funds" and revenue sharing creates, mediocre research and downright 1990s technology (and thats AFTER the recent upgrade).
 
So, Jones folks, glad you are happy. Keep nursing at that EJ titty, cause you are going to be getting less and less milk from Mama... Suck Hard, the writing is on the wall. Okay, that does it.  I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement.  No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn't for me.  As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:

  • Training people changing my start date without telling me
  • Most local FA's giving me bad/contradicting advice about good office location (to get me out of their backyards)
  • Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")
  • RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks)
  • Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"

I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start.  This combined with the multiple posts here about terrible experiences has me deeply concerned.  The thought of being stuck somewhere for three years followed by a nasty departure doesn't sound fun.I made the mistake of signing the Jones contract... but it's all predicated on the assumption that I actually start working for the company.  I wonder what they will do when I quit before I ever start.  I'd like to see them try and sue me for $75,000 for training costs even though I never worked a day for them.  Based on this forum, it sounds like something they would do.I was going to hold onto Jones while I am waiting for an offer from MSSB, but the more I think about it, I don't think I want to go to Jones even if MSSB rejects me.

voltmoie's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-05

Don't let the door hit you... I'll bet anyone on here a beer you'll fail in 12 months piker.  There is not a person at Jones that will give two sh*ts you've "rescinded" your offer. In fact, e-mail me your contact information and I'll do it for you.

Moraen's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-22

voltmoie wrote: Don't let the door hit you... I'll bet anyone on here a beer you'll fail in 12 months piker.  There is not a person at Jones that will give two sh*ts you've "rescinded" your offer. In fact, e-mail me your contact information and I'll do it for you.

I'll take the bet. Even if he fails, he's got balls for resigning before knowing if he has another job. I'll back him.

The type of behavior that Jones exhibits is reprehensible in this case. Great company in a lot of ways, but they are jerks when you leave.

voltmoie's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-05

Moraen wrote: voltmoie wrote: Don't let the door hit you... I'll bet anyone on here a beer you'll fail in 12 months piker.  There is not a person at Jones that will give two sh*ts you've "rescinded" your offer. In fact, e-mail me your contact information and I'll do it for you.

I'll take the bet. Even if he fails, he's got balls for resigning before knowing if he has another job. I'll back him.

The type of behavior that Jones exhibits is reprehensible in this case. Great company in a lot of ways, but they are jerks when you leave. Cool .. six pack of some regional brew sent to the other.  No doubt they are jerks from our point of view but from their point of view .. they are protecting their interests.  Lot's of costs with an office empty and a BOA potentially without a job.  I do get a kick out of their bragging about sending out a letter to clients though, that's classic.Don't worry Jones, I will be sending out my very own letter when and if I leave :)

MBA2FA's picture
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Joined: 2009-06-01

Now wait a minute!  If a six pack is exchanged, I deserve to get one of those beers either way.  If I succeed, I deserve I victory beer.  If I fail, I need a beer to drown my sorrows.

3rdyrp2's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

MBA2FA wrote: Okay, that does it.  I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement.  No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn't for me.  As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:


  • Training people changing my start date without telling me
  • Most local FA's giving me bad/contradicting advice about good office location (to get me out of their backyards)

Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff.  Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition.  Of course they don't want you right in their back yard.  Learn how to play the game.  If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.

  • Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")
  • RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks)
  • Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"

My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me.  I was just a number until I was able to make it.  RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year.  Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups.  Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list. 
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. 
 
The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not.  You should be focused right now on two things:  Studying for exams and updating your contact list.  Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party. 

SometimesNowhere's picture
Joined: 2008-12-22

3rdyrp2 wrote:MBA2FA wrote: Okay, that does it.  I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement.  No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn't for me.  As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:


  • Training people changing my start date without telling me
  • Most local FA's giving me bad/contradicting advice about good office location (to get me out of their backyards)

Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff.  Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition.  Of course they don't want you right in their back yard.  Learn how to play the game.  If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.

  • Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")
  • RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks)
  • Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"

My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me.  I was just a number until I was able to make it.  RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year.  Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups.  Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list. 
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. 
 
The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not.  You should be focused right now on two things:  Studying for exams and updating your contact list.  Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party. 
 
Well said, 3rd. All those things are nice, but when it comes down to it they don't matter. I have my complaints about some of the way my company does things sometimes, but at the end of the day they paycheck I earn is directly dependant on my work. It has nothing to do with whether or not my RL or anyone else in my region went to dinner with me, or called me to congratulate me on "blah blah blah". If you are looking to walk into any company with a bunch of fans crowding the streets and confetti shot at you out of cannons, you are in the wrong profession. Just be happy that you have a couple offers, and get to work.

MBA2FA's picture
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3rdyrp2 wrote:MBA2FA wrote: Okay, that does it.  I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement.  No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn't for me.  As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:

  • Training people changing my start date without telling me
  • Most local FA's giving me bad/contradicting advice about good office location (to get me out of their backyards)

Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff.  Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition.  Of course they don't want you right in their back yard.  Learn how to play the game.  If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.There is a difference in being sensitive and being aware.  With Jones, I have been told that I will be expected to focus on one small town and do business a very specific way.  MSSB had me create a business plan to find the best way to leverage my10k contacts.  MSSB supports me being licensed in multiple states (my contacts are not all in one place), yet Jones wants me to focus on a zip code.With MSSB, I am not expecting much more than a desk and a phone.  I have my own contacts and can sell to them in accordance with a business plan that I created and not have to follow a prescribed "recipe for success."  MSSB loves my business plan and fully supports my approach to building my business.  Jones support system is set up around their doorknocking "recipe" and not much else.

  • Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")
  • RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks)
  • Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"

My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me.  I was just a number until I was able to make it.  RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year.  Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups.  Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.  I don't care about dinner either way.  Interestingly enough, In the past five jobs I have had, my boss has welcomed me by taking me to dinner. On the other hand I used to serve in roles that were highly valued by my organization.  I was highly valued and served in key roles.  I don't need to be reminded that my new organization does not value me in that same way.  I would rather have no dinner than get a call letting me know that someone is too busy to have dinner with me.I'm not sure if you understand Jones' structure (I barely get it myself), but FA's don't have a manager.  Everything is completely centralized in St. Louis.  I had a simple question for Jones and I have waited almost a month just to get the opportunity to talk to someone.  At MSSB, I can knock on my BM's door and ask.
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. 
 
The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not.  You should be focused right now on two things:  Studying for exams and updating your contact list.  Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party.  It's interesting how some people read so much into my posts and assume things that are not there.  Im not pissed off at Jones at all.  I'm glad these things have happened.  It makes me much better informed to make a choice.  I am comparing two options.  One has a bunch of red flags and the other one has fewer.  I think it's wonderful that the Jones guys think they are far superior to the wirehouses.  On the other hand, why are there so meany threads about people leaving Jones?  I haven't met a single person who has left a wirehouse for Jones, yet I have seen the opposite.I agree that I should focus on studying for exams and updating my contact list.  Jones has made it clear that they don't care about my contact list and it's hard to focus on studying when i can't get the 3-year/$75,000 contract out of my head.I'm still amazed by all the Jones people telling me how I will fail.  Why would I want to start with a company with this attitude?  This is MUCH different than the attitude, "90% of people in this industry fail.  Be warned.  Unless you do XYZ, you will most likele fail.  If fact, even if you do XYZ, you still may fail." Jones guys here make it a personal attack instead of a helpful warning"

MBA2FA's picture
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Joined: 2009-06-01

BioFreeze wrote:I think your perception of the value of your 10,000 contacts is quite distorted. 
I think your perception of my perception of the value of my contacts is quite distorted.You are lacking two key pieces of information to make such a statement.

  1. The actual contents/value of my list
  2. The value I actually place on that list
hotair1's picture
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Joined: 2009-03-12

Good luck MBA2FA!  I think you'll need it!

3rdyrp2's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-13

I could be wrong, as I've been wrong a few times before, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state.  So if you're contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them.  If you tell them you've got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state.  Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you're licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they'll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts.  If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that. 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right? 
 
Good luck though!

Moraen's picture
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Joined: 2009-01-22

3rdyrp2 wrote: I could be wrong, as I've been wrong a few times before, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state.  So if you're contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them.  If you tell them you've got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state.  Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you're licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they'll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts.  If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that. 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right? 

 
Good luck though!

3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren't making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.

MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that's just some slick HR talk, who knows?

I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that's mostly how I continue to build it.

MBA2FA's picture
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Moraen wrote: 3rdyrp2 wrote: I could be wrong, as I've been wrong a few times before, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state.  So if you're contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them.  If you tell them you've got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state.  Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you're licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they'll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts.  If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that. 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right? 

 
Good luck though!

3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren't making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.

MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that's just some slick HR talk, who knows?

I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that's mostly how I continue to build it.I don't think is was slick HR talk.  When I presented my business plan, I prefaced this portion with, "if permitted, I will prospect contacts here, here and here."  Yes, I have contacts in 50 states, and no, they will not pay for 50 states for a newbie.  Most of my valuable contacts are in about 10 states.  Given that the state registration fee varies, we agreed to look at everything on a state by state basis.  Of course, they will not continue to pay for licenses if it's not profitable.I can live with starting out with only a license in my current state (plenty of business here), but I think it would be foolish to neglect the state where I did business for five years and got my MBA (huge aumni association and lots of personal contacts).

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B24
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MBA2FA wrote: Moraen wrote: 3rdyrp2 wrote: I could be wrong, as I've been wrong a few times before, but I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state.  So if you're contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them.  If you tell them you've got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state.  Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you're licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they'll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts.  If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that. 
 
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right? 
 
Good luck though! 3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren't making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them. MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that's just some slick HR talk, who knows? I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that's mostly how I continue to build it.I don't think is was slick HR talk.  When I presented my business plan, I prefaced this portion with, "if permitted, I will prospect contacts here, here and here."  Yes, I have contacts in 50 states, and no, they will not pay for 50 states for a newbie.  Most of my valuable contacts are in about 10 states.  Given that the state registration fee varies, we agreed to look at everything on a state by state basis.  Of course, they will not continue to pay for licenses if it's not profitable.I can live with starting out with only a license in my current state (plenty of business here), but I think it would be foolish to neglect the state where I did business for five years and got my MBA (huge aumni association and lots of personal contacts).
 
MBA,
 
I think if you just approach it positively, and can prove that you can leverage your out of state contacts, nobody at Jones will have a problem.  As some have mentioned, I think they (as would most wirehouses) are probably leary of licensing someone in dozens of states that you may never actually do business in.  As it stands, they put quite a bit of money into the start up of each FA, so costs are obviously an issue.  But I am licensed in about 9 states, and some of those I no longer do business in (or maybe not even enough to warrent a license), and I have never even been questioned about it.  They went through a a process a while ago and asked people to review their licenses to make sure it still made sense to maintain them.  I have cancelled a few of mine where it didn't make sense (transferred client to local branch).  I have never paid a dime in licensing fees at Jones.
But also remember, you are dealing with individuals.  When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.  If you choose to stay, just go about it like a business and you'll be fine. 

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"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input.  I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones.  The FA's in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things.  There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side.  I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it's nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer.  I have yet to find that person at Jones.  In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum.  I learn stuff, then go back to FA's and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall.  The personal attacks are a bit annoying.  I'm not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it.  For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.

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Fun fact of the day:  If you take out the period of September 19th through October 26th of last year, the Dow is actually positive 200 points since January 25th of 2008.

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3rdyrp2 wrote:Fun fact of the day:  If you take out the period of September 19th through October 26th of last year, the Dow is actually positive 200 points since January 25th of 2008.
 
 
...and if my Aunt had balls he'd be my Uncle! 

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MBA2FA wrote:"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input.  I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones.  The FA's in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things.  There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side.  I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it's nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer.  I have yet to find that person at Jones.  In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum.  I learn stuff, then go back to FA's and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall.  The personal attacks are a bit annoying.  I'm not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it.  For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
 
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
 
People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are.

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SometimesNowhere wrote:MBA2FA wrote:"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input.  I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones.  The FA's in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things.  There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side.  I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it's nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer.  I have yet to find that person at Jones.  In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum.  I learn stuff, then go back to FA's and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall.  The personal attacks are a bit annoying.  I'm not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it.  For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
 
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
 
People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are.
 
Besides, when the most important part of your "business plan" is your list of 10,000 contacts spread through 4 different continents, that's not "quick business".  By that I mean you can't just call them up, tell them you're a newly minted prized gem with Morgan Stanley and expect a lot of them to open accounts and transfer their life savings.  Especially when these people will all know your brand new to the industry and you are roughly an average of 2,000 miles away from most of them.  Either 1. You're HNW crowd will have an advisor, 2. They prefer to have a local guy that can have an appt. from time to time to look at things, 3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new, or 4. Won't mind opening an account and thinks "If this guy can do well at selling pharmaceuticals, I'm sure he can get me to a successful retirement!".  #4 will be few and far between, my friend, but the key is there will definitely be some that open an account to help you out.  That's a fact, its just a matter of how soon they'll do it, and how many choose to do it.  And there will be a wine and dine period between 1st phone call and rollover time.  You may need to fly out to Wichita once or twice to take your Finance 701 professor to a steak dinner in order for him to pull the trigger and remind him that no, you weren't sleeping in class that one day because you were bored, you just accidentally took Nyquil instead of Dayquil beforehand.

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SometimesNowhere wrote:MBA2FA wrote:"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input.  I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones.  The FA's in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things.  There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side.  I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it's nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer.  I have yet to find that person at Jones.  In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum.  I learn stuff, then go back to FA's and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall.  The personal attacks are a bit annoying.  I'm not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it.  For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
 
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
 
People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. Okay, call me sensitive, but when people are placing bets on whether or not I will wash out in the first 12 months, I take kind of personally.... I don't go crying to my mom, but I do find it annoying.[Side note: I once had a manager receive multiple anonymous death threats on another industry forum.  She returned home from a business trip and found printouts of the threatening forum threads nailed to her front door.  Now that's what I call a threat]As mentioned in multiple past posts, I am quite well aware of the industry failure rate.  I don't think it's possible to make it to the offer stage with multiple firms without a healthy respect for the challenges of this industry.The context of how people address my probable failure serves to me as an indication as to whether someone is trying to be helpful or just being conflictive.For example, if someone were to say, "Your 10,000 contacts will probably be worthless because...." or "Don't rely on your past success in business because this industry is totally different.  I once knew a guy like you who failed because...."When someone says something like, "You are an idiot and a loser.  I guarantee you will fail," what is the value in that?  How does that help me in any way?Granted, there are not many people like this, but I have noticed that there are a handful of people on here that jump from thread to thread hurling insults and worthless comments at everyone.Unfortunately for EDJ, there seem to be a disproportionate number of their FA's on here who seem downright angry.  All of the ones I have met in person seem very pleasant and exhibited no antisocial behavior, but maybe they release their alter-ego on this forum at night.  Who knows?I get the impression that there are some people here that enjoy seeing others fail (build up sense of self importance, I guess), while others are genuinely interested in helping others.As a former sales manager, I knew that a certain percentage of my people would fail out, but I did everything I could within reason to set them up for success.  Sure some of them failed and I had to fire them, but it wasn't because I set up an expectation for failure.As far as statistics go, the BM at my local MSSB branch claims to have a 100% success rate with new hires for the past 5 years (several have gotten pissed off and quit, but none have washed out).  Does this mean I have 100% chance of success?  Unfortunately, I think not.The truth lies somewhere in the middle.  As with financial markets, past results are no guarantee of future results.  In fact, nobody knows for sure if I will make it... not me, not you, not EDJ, not MSSB.  All anyone can do is look at success indicators that may indicate a higher probability of success.  The MSSB BM is basing his decision on 25 years personal experience, six structured interviews, past work experience and performance reviews, mutliple tests to measure intelligence, financial ability, sales ability, and personality, review of a business plan, education, mutliple reference interviews, etc.  I find it interesting that someone who has never met me and has worked at EDJ for a year thinks he is better qualified to assess my chance of success than the management team at the MSSB Branch with over 40 years combined experience. 

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Ed Jones survey ranking as #1 is not a compliment to Ed J as much as it's a condemnation of the business and players in this environment as a whole. 

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3rdyrp2 wrote:SometimesNowhere wrote:MBA2FA wrote:"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input.  I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones.  The FA's in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things.  There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side.  I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it's nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer.  I have yet to find that person at Jones.  In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum.  I learn stuff, then go back to FA's and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall.  The personal attacks are a bit annoying.  I'm not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it.  For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
 
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
 
People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are.
 Thanks for the Input below.  Much more constructive than "I guarantee you will fail.  I have considered much of what you have said.
Besides, when the most important part of your "business plan" is your list of 10,000 contacts spread through 4 different continents, that's not "quick business".  Fortunately, I have very few int'l contacts.  Most are in major metro areas.  The most important part of my business plan is NOT the list.  In fact, I was originally just looking at buying lists or using corporate directories, etc.  Then I thought, "Wait, these guys have phones.  These guys have money.  Isn't it worth a simple phone call?  I should hope my close rate would be at least equal to cold calling.By that I mean you can't just call them up, tell them you're a newly minted prized gem with Morgan Stanley and expect a lot of them to open accounts and transfer their life savings.  Especially when these people will all know your brand new to the industry and you are roughly an average of 2,000 miles away from most of them.  Either 1. You're HNW crowd will have an advisor, Isn't this the case with all HNW people?  Are you saying t is't even wor a try?2. They prefer to have a local guy that can have an appt. from time to time to look at things, Agreed.  I took a pointer from Judge on this one (500 day war).  I was only going to target a few cities I like to visit, so I can go in for appts from time to time.  However I do have several contacts in IT that do everything remotely and wouldn't do a physical appointment if I begged them.3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new, Again, won't I  have this problem with anyone I call?  I haven't talked to some of these contacts in 2-3 years (my failure to keep in touch can be saved for another discussion), so they don't have to know how new I am.  No, I won't lie, but I don't have to announce my newness.or 4. Won't mind opening an account and thinks "If this guy can do well at selling pharmaceuticals, I'm sure he can get me to a successful retirement!".  I think I'll close about 1 account with this approach.  After I close my wife, I'll need to switch approaches.  I think it would be wiser to sell people on trust, quality of service, etc.  Pharma has nothing to do with financial services (duh).  The only thing I can really "sell" about my past is to claim  "30% of the MBA grads at my school go into the financial sector because our financial education is so great.  While most of them go into investment banking, I decided to go into retail because I don't want to help stupid corporations.  I want to help hard-working individuals like you.... or something like that"#4 will be few and far between, my friend, but the key is there will definitely be some that open an account to help you out.  That's a fact, its just a matter of how soon they'll do it, and how many choose to do it.  And there will be a wine and dine period between 1st phone call and rollover time.  You may need to fly out to Wichita once or twice to take your Finance 701 professor to a steak dinner in order for him to pull the trigger and remind him that no, you weren't sleeping in class that one day because you were bored, you just accidentally took Nyquil instead of Dayquil beforehand.

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MBA2FA wrote:
SometimesNowhere wrote:MBA2FA wrote:"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer.  Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input.  I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones.  The FA's in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things.  There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side.  I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it's nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer.  I have yet to find that person at Jones.  In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum.  I learn stuff, then go back to FA's and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall.  The personal attacks are a bit annoying.  I'm not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it.  For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
 
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
 
People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. Okay, call me sensitive, but when people are placing bets on whether or not I will wash out in the first 12 months, I take kind of personally.... I don't go crying to my mom, but I do find it annoying.[Side note: I once had a manager receive multiple anonymous death threats on another industry forum.  She returned home from a business trip and found printouts of the threatening forum threads nailed to her front door.  Now that's what I call a threat]As mentioned in multiple past posts, I am quite well aware of the industry failure rate.  I don't think it's possible to make it to the offer stage with multiple firms without a healthy respect for the challenges of this industry.The context of how people address my probable failure serves to me as an indication as to whether someone is trying to be helpful or just being conflictive.For example, if someone were to say, "Your 10,000 contacts will probably be worthless because...." or "Don't rely on your past success in business because this industry is totally different.  I once knew a guy like you who failed because...."When someone says something like, "You are an idiot and a loser.  I guarantee you will fail," what is the value in that?  How does that help me in any way?Granted, there are not many people like this, but I have noticed that there are a handful of people on here that jump from thread to thread hurling insults and worthless comments at everyone.Unfortunately for EDJ, there seem to be a disproportionate number of their FA's on here who seem downright angry.  All of the ones I have met in person seem very pleasant and exhibited no antisocial behavior, but maybe they release their alter-ego on this forum at night.  Who knows?I get the impression that there are some people here that enjoy seeing others fail (build up sense of self importance, I guess), while others are genuinely interested in helping others.As a former sales manager, I knew that a certain percentage of my people would fail out, but I did everything I could within reason to set them up for success.  Sure some of them failed and I had to fire them, but it wasn't because I set up an expectation for failure.As far as statistics go, the BM at my local MSSB branch claims to have a 100% success rate with new hires for the past 5 years (several have gotten pissed off and quit, but none have washed out).  Does this mean I have 100% chance of success?  Unfortunately, I think not.The truth lies somewhere in the middle.  As with financial markets, past results are no guarantee of future results.  In fact, nobody knows for sure if I will make it... not me, not you, not EDJ, not MSSB.  All anyone can do is look at success indicators that may indicate a higher probability of success.  The MSSB BM is basing his decision on 25 years personal experience, six structured interviews, past work experience and performance reviews, mutliple tests to measure intelligence, financial ability, sales ability, and personality, review of a business plan, education, mutliple reference interviews, etc.  I find it interesting that someone who has never met me and has worked at EDJ for a year thinks he is better qualified to assess my chance of success than the management team at the MSSB Branch with over 40 years combined experience. 

MBA has a point.

However, I wouldn't say people on here enjoy watching other people fail.

A couple of counterpoints though MBA. The MSSB BM is also in management. If he was in this industry 25 years as a broker, he would have more credibility. There are people who seem like they will succeed in this industry but don't, and others that on paper look like the crap you just stepped in, but end up being million dollar producers. There is no "magic formula" for determining who will succeed.

I wish you the best of luck (I have beer riding on it), and like someone said you will probably need it. Not because of your background. Not because of your attitude. Simply because so many do need that luck. I have not worked in other fields much (other than military and security), but I'm pretty sure this is the most difficult way to make a living in the country. It is also the most rewarding.

Hopefully you'll give us some updates. And in one year's time, I'll have volt FedEx some good Austrailian beer (not that Foster's crap B24 drinks). Then you can come by and have 20 calories of one beer.

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3rd - it's easy to get soured on Jones kool-aid, especially if they don't give you the good batch.

I did all my interviews within a few days and was given an offer the same day as my last interview. It took another week to check refs. A friend of mine, it took him two months. Different for everybody.

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Sidebar:
 
I am not just a Foster's drinker.  I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though).  I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach.
 
We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge).  She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra.  That was a big disappointment.

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B24 wrote: Sidebar:
 
I am not just a Foster's drinker.  I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though).  I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach.
 
We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge).  She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra.  That was a big disappointment.

Excellent taste then my friend. Glad to hear you don't drink Foster's

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MBA2FA wrote:3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new, Again, won't I  have this problem with anyone I call?  I haven't talked to some of these contacts in 2-3 years (my failure to keep in touch can be saved for another discussion), so they don't have to know how new I am.  No, I won't lie, but I don't have to announce my newness.
 
True, but most of the time when people are calling from a list or don't know anyone personally they have no idea if you are new or if you've been doing it 20 years.  They call it "fake it til you make it".  Pretend you've been there for a quarter-century, the only one who knows the truth is you, your mom and your co-workers.  Thats just why I was thinking that would be a tough approach with someone who was a recent colleague or knows more about your past than a stranger would.  I think in the long run the contacts will be a strong point, though. 

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I'll be around.  This forum is like a bad addiction.As far as the BM's assessment ability goes, I would hope that with significant experience managing multiple brokers, he would gain insight as to what good looks like.  Maybe he was a terrible advisor, but has the ability to identify people that will be successful.One of my professors in business school co-authored the McKinsey book on corporate valuation and taught classes on M&A.  Has he ever personally been responsible for any large Mergers or Acquisitions? Nope.  Can he spot a bad deal a mile away? Yup!  Do corporations pay him tons of money for his insight? Yup.  Get where I am going with this?Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren't completely ignorant.  As far as the "Luck" factor goes, this concept extends far beyond financial services.  We actually did a case study on it in business school.  There are numerous examples of almost identical people and businesses... some fail and others are wildly successful and nobody knows why.  What people do know is that the successful people/organizations exhibit common traits.  Without these, failure is almost inevitable.There is a great Harvard Business Review Article called "Resilience" that explains some factors very well.  The book "Tipping Point" by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.So as to the bet.  To get your beer, do I have to make it a year past my start date or a year in production?  Since volt is convinced I am that stupid, perhaps he should throw in a jar of vegemite if I pass my Series 7.BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year?  I see lots of people accusing others of being liars.  Suspiscion will be even higher is there's beer on the line.

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B24 wrote:Sidebar:
 
I am not just a Foster's drinker.  I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though).  I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach.
 
We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge).  She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra.  That was a big disappointment.
Have you tried Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale?

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noggin wrote:Have you tried Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale?
 
That's a very unfortunate name for a beer.

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noggin wrote:B24 wrote:Sidebar:
 
I am not just a Foster's drinker.  I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though).  I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach.
 
We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge).  She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra.  That was a big disappointment.
Have you tried Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale?
 
Are you making a gay joke?  If so, that's not cool man.

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Wow, didn't know Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale is such a sensitive subject to you guys.  It still is an unfortunate name.

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Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren't completely ignorant.

  The book "Tipping Point" by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.

BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year?  I see lots of people accusing others of being liars. 

Couple of points MBA

- BM and ABME started as advisors. Like I said, if they could have made it as advisors, they still would be.
- Malcolm Gladwell is a tool. He started two failed businesses and couldn't make it playing hockey, so he blames it on his birthday (read the book "Outliers"). He's a clown, please don't listen to anything he says.
- You can prove it by blotting out your real name and sending a copy of your production snapshot to me and volt. I have no problem providing you my email address.
- I will then give volt my office address, you guys can come and we'll drink to your future success. Volt has shown he is willing to admit if he's wrong, I have no doubt he would this time.

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Joined: 2008-11-05

MBA2FA wrote:
I'll be around.  This forum is like a bad addiction.As far as the BM's assessment ability goes, I would hope that with significant experience managing multiple brokers, he would gain insight as to what good looks like.  Maybe he was a terrible advisor, but has the ability to identify people that will be successful.One of my professors in business school co-authored the McKinsey book on corporate valuation and taught classes on M&A.  Has he ever personally been responsible for any large Mergers or Acquisitions? Nope.  Can he spot a bad deal a mile away? Yup!  Do corporations pay him tons of money for his insight? Yup.  Get where I am going with this?Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren't completely ignorant.  As far as the "Luck" factor goes, this concept extends far beyond financial services.  We actually did a case study on it in business school.  There are numerous examples of almost identical people and businesses... some fail and others are wildly successful and nobody knows why.  What people do know is that the successful people/organizations exhibit common traits.  Without these, failure is almost inevitable.There is a great Harvard Business Review Article called "Resilience" that explains some factors very well.  The book "Tipping Point" by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.So as to the bet.  To get your beer, do I have to make it a year past my start date or a year in production?  Since volt is convinced I am that stupid, perhaps he should throw in a jar of vegemite if I pass my Series 7.BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year?  I see lots of people accusing others of being liars.  Suspiscion will be even higher is there's beer on the line.
If you can't start making your point in under 100 words you won't last a month much less a year.  Spare us the books bro. You'll pass the 7, you'll brag, and then... welcome to the insanity.  I'm a man of my word, hope you are .. 1 year from your can sell date we can use a third party source like B24 to confirm you are still active.   Mmmmm beer!

voltmoie's picture
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Joined: 2008-11-05

Moraen wrote:Incidentally, the BM and ABM both started out as advisors, so they aren't completely ignorant.

  The book "Tipping Point" by Malcomb Gladwell also offers some interesting insight.

BTW, how do I prove I really made it a year?  I see lots of people accusing others of being liars. 

Couple of points MBA

- BM and ABME started as advisors. Like I said, if they could have made it as advisors, they still would be.
- Malcolm Gladwell is a tool. He started two failed businesses and couldn't make it playing hockey, so he blames it on his birthday (read the book "Outliers"). He's a clown, please don't listen to anything he says.
- You can prove it by blotting out your real name and sending a copy of your production snapshot to me and volt. I have no problem providing you my email address.
- I will then give volt my office address, you guys can come and we'll drink to your future success. Volt has shown he is willing to admit if he's wrong, I have no doubt he would this time.
This works too, it would be my pleasure.

MBA2FA's picture
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Joined: 2009-06-01

I can admit when I am wrong too.  Jones guys aren't all bad. I don't think I'll brag if I pass the 7.  That's just a ticket to the game.  I'll brag if I make it to the end of year three.  We can all meet at Caesars Palace. Volt is buying.(I kept it under 100 words.  Are you impressed?)

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