Edward Jones - California Law Suit

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Lance Legstrong's picture
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Edward D. Jones Hits California Snag
Judge Tentatively Rejects Bid to Block State's LawsuitOver Funds Sales Practices
By ARDEN DALEMarch 15, 2006; Page C13
Edward D. Jones & Co. hit a snag in its campaign to block a lawsuit against it by California Attorney General Bill Lockyer over its mutual-funds sales practices.
Sacramento County Superior Court Judge Loren E. McMaster on Monday tentatively rejected a bid by the broker-dealer to have the securities-fraud suit dropped on the grounds that federal law pre-empts Mr. Lockyer from bringing it.
The judge is expected to issue a final ruling in coming days. If that tentative ruling stands, it will mark the second time Edward D. Jones has lost a fight to have the suit dropped.
At issue is a lawsuit filed by Mr. Lockyer in December 2004 alleging that Edward D. Jones failed to tell investors about "shelf space" payments it received from seven mutual funds to recommend and sell those funds. The suit seeks disgorgement of all profit that Edward D. Jones gained as a result of allegedly violating antifraud provisions of the state's securities laws. It also seeks restitution and damages for investors who bought mutual-fund shares from Edward D. Jones.
Under the agreements at issue in the case, seven mutual funds paid Edward D. Jones either cash or directed-brokerage commission on portfolio transactions to sell those funds, place them on lists of recommended buys or obtain preferential treatment. From January 2000 through December 2004, the broker-dealer extracted about $300 million -- mostly in cash -- in shelf-space payments, according to the complaint. Directed brokerage is the use of trading commissions paid out of a mutual fund's assets to reward brokerage houses for promoting the fund.
The suit is one of two pending that Mr. Lockyer is bringing in the mutual-fund arena that stem from investigations he began in 2004 into funds sales practices.
The other is a related suit against American Funds Inc. It involves allegations that American Funds made payments to the broker-dealer to recommend its products more aggressively.
Edward D. Jones spokeswoman Regina DeLuca-Imral said the company "is exploring our options for an appeal."
The question of whether or not Mr. Lockyer can be pre-empted from bringing the suit is crucial. "However the courts decide that matter will determine whether or not we can proceed," said Tom Dresslar, a spokesman for Mr. Lockyer. "If the long history of jurisprudence is any indication, we will be allowed to enforce California securities-fraud laws against American Funds and Edward Jones."
 
Looks like y'all will have to wait some more for those LP Units

xej1984's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

hey where all the kool-aidaholics in supporting their "pusher"?
Let's see they lost the appeal to would have allowed dougie to stay on and now they've lost twice to have the California lawsuit dropped that I recall some kool-aidaholic announce would be dropped, but that was almost two years ago.  Yes, the wheels of justice turn slowly,  unfortunatly they seem to be grinding up on on ej.

Revealer's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-13

I can hear it now... "We didn't do anything different than anyone else did. They're just picking on us because we are so successful." "We are the most ethical firm on Wall Street." "We treat our clients better than anyone else."  Did I miss anything? No reason now for the chuggers to respond.

ezmoney's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

You did miss one thing.
"They are the best darn salesforce in the world"

advisor1's picture
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Someone help me understand this lunacy at Edward Jones. I thought under blue skies law the state has the right to seek judgement in this area. Obviously someone at Edward Jones acknowledges this fact or they wouldn't have settled with Maine. So why are they fighting CA on this issue and waisting time in the appellate court instead of getting ready for trial?

exdrone's picture
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How do the clones justify settling with Maine but saying Calif has no case beacuse the federal settlement covers the individual states?  They should fire their attny's and have the best salesforce in the world make their case to the courts in California.  Just show the judge an ICA mountian chart and tell him all he needs is a growth and income mutual fund to solve all his problems.   Maybe then the poor IR's could get their long awaited LP. 
Too much uncertainty folks, just too much uncertainty to raise capital right now. Yeah right!

joedog's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-26

How much do you think Bear Stearns will have to pay since their settlement was so much higher than EJs?

Joedog

Soothsayer's picture
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advisor1 wrote:Someone help me understand this lunacy at Edward Jones. I thought under blue skies law the state has the right to seek judgement in this area. Obviously someone at Edward Jones acknowledges this fact or they wouldn't have settled with Maine. So why are they fighting CA on this issue and waisting time in the appellate court instead of getting ready for trial?
The reason EDJ does not want to settle with California is pretty simple.  Maine is a small state.  1 in every 7 Americans lives in California.  The settlement with California, if one is ever reached, is going to be one gigantic pile of jack.

compliancejerk's picture
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joedog,
Good defense, deflect the issue and bring up another firm.
You really are like children, "sure I pushed Sally down but Billy Stearns punched Bobby so he is a badder boy than me." 

Indyone's picture
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Typical.  There's no one here defending Bear Stearns...if you don't have anything intelligent to add, go take another swig from the Kool-Aid still.
See Noggin and tjc if you want to figure out how to defend your firm with a little class instead of just sounding like an idiot.

Lance Legstrong's picture
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Joined: 2005-01-12

Upton Sinclair can sum up the Jones clowns:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on his not understanding it!"
 
 
 

joedog's picture
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compliancejerk wrote: joedog,
Good defense, deflect the issue and bring up another firm.
You really are like children, "sure I pushed Sally down but Billy Stearns punched Bobby so he is a badder boy than me."

Well, JERK. You got me there. That's was my intent, to deflect the issue . Its a logical question with no implied EJ defending. I guess in your simple mind, if you are not against EJ then you must be for it.

If the CA AG is enforcing the law in is state, then, as legal precedent, the Bear fine from CA could be more than 3 times the fine for EJ.

Joedog

Player's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-08

What happen to old Doug "3 Mil" Hill?  I heard he was trying to get back incharge...........He could show CA something..........It's called cash to stay out of jail..........
JoeDog , lighten-up a bit...........we all know EDJ isn't alone, but the other Firms all seem to admit when they get caught they did something wrong. 
Edward Jones never has nor will they ever, that is the difference the arrogance of Drones and Clones we never did anything wrong....................

advisor1's picture
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Player, right on, what Edward Jones doesn't yet realize that their arrogance is costing them more than fees to some useless attorney that thinks they can win in the appellate court. Most good companies when faced with this dilemma similar to Jones would capitulate and settle. The true cost of their arrogance is the loss of IR's, closing of offices and keeping non-IR offices open. Eventually, Lance is right it is the capital.

Player's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-08

Hey Drones and Clones,
What are the numbers of IR's at Edward Jones? 
Why have so many left?      
What's with all the vacant offices?
Is it true Doug "3 Mil" Hill wants to come back?
Is it true when a new IR takes over an open office because a vet left, they are allowed by compliance to churn and burn and encouraged to do so?

Revealer's picture
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Or better yet....just lie about the departed rep and his/her new firm. I heard a good one the other day....rep that took over a departed jones office was telling the clients that if they moved their accts to the new firm, the new firm would "take 2% right off the top" of their accts. I assume the idiot that made that statement was alluding to the fact that the departed's new firm offered mgd. accts. and "you know they charge LOTS of $$ for those". What a bunch of fools/idiots/liars!

skolbrother's picture
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Revealer, fools, probably. idiots, many. liars = complete ignorance. Many simply are so green (not green in reference to production) that they simply do not understand the business. The travesty is they think they do and their answers are just buy g&i mutual funds. During an audit I literally had a field supervision director say I don't know why you are buying all thes different funds when over time a good growth and income fund will get the job done. That was '02' I am guessing those clients who own mid cap, small cap and emerging mkts. are a little happier than just owning a good g&i fund. Ignorance or arrogance not sure but when you have both it can be dangerous.

Devoted SA's picture
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Player, yes it's true New IR's are encouraged by mentors, DL's, TL's, regional leaders and senior vets to "churn & burn" assets taken over in an existing ofc. My RR and I took over an existing ofc in '99 with about $3 mil in assets and were told to "hit the phone and start dialing for dollars" (which was their loose translation for meet all your existing clients, and introduce yourself as their new rep).
Thankfully seven years later, we escaped the Jonestown compound and are living and working INDEPENDANTLY!

Malcolm's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

Revealer that was very believable. I had similiar lies told to my clients when I left.  Thankfully, most of my top clients talked to me to find out what the truth was and they followed me.  Including a 10+ million dollar client that I took from the trust department.  What a low class creepy organization they were to work for.
Good to hear it worked out well in the end for you and your IR Devoted SA.  

troll's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-29

Lance Legstrong wrote:Upton Sinclair can sum up the Jones clowns:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his paycheck depends on his not understanding it!"
 
 
 From amongst the fray comes a kernel of truth.  This quote is so simple and profound in its truth....describes the nature of the problems for many at EdJones, and for that matter across Wall Street-especially in the major firms-for those who refuse to question aspects of the status quo because it might mean short-term personal sacrifice.

frankstrom's picture
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It has been a year since I have looked at this site and the children are still at it.  Including Player (he never meet an Emoticon he didn't use) and (never told a lie he wouldn't defend until the end).
Yo Player, how is that fuzzy math, you tool.

noggin's picture
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Devoted SA wrote:
Player, yes it's true New IR's are encouraged by mentors, DL's, TL's, regional leaders and senior vets to "churn & burn" assets taken over in an existing ofc. My RR and I took over an existing ofc in '99 with about $3 mil in assets and were told to "hit the phone and start dialing for dollars" (which was their loose translation for meet all your existing clients, and introduce yourself as their new rep).
Thankfully seven years later, we escaped the Jonestown compound and are living and working INDEPENDANTLY!

Maybe you don't have time to learn spelling, but independently is spelled this way. How is meeting existing clients and introducing yourself as the new rep "churning & burning"???

babbling looney's picture
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How is meeting existing clients and introducing yourself as the new rep "churning & burning"???
Its not. 
But unfortunately that isn't what usually happens when an IR jumps from the mother ship. What IS churning and burning is when the replacement IR and the transitional guy in StL calls the clients and badgers them into selling perfectly good investments for no good reason other than to make money for the new guys.  What is also unethical is to tell lies and spread innuendos about the outgoing IR. Casting doubt on the honesty, integrity and credibility so they can make movements in the portfolios.
If you don't think this is S.O.P., you have your head where the sun don't shine.   I wasn't gone from my office for less than a few hours when they started calling.  I had clients calling me at my home complaining about the aggressive phone calls and begging to transfer out of Jones just so they would leave them alone.  They actually did me a big favor by being so patently greedy.

noggin's picture
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Babbling- I don't have any personal experience to judge on as you do. I certainly take at face value the validity of your experience. I do think that with a TR that could happen but with a replacement IR one would hope that they are trying to build a business not twist and churn client's accounts.

compliancejerk's picture
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noggin,
I was a TL in FS. Whatever babbling looney, zaco, lance, iluminati has stated I've witnessed. TR's get a piece of the action until the new IR comes in.....you figure it out

noggin's picture
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Compliancejerk & Babbling- Thanks for your inputs. I appreciate it.

Kool-Aid Lover's picture
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It absolutely amazes me when somebody leaves a firm and is supprised by the tactics the firm takes to keep its clients.  When you work for a corporation/firm they own the rights to your sweat and effort.  Just ask Stan Lee why his royalty checks for creating Spiderman have totaled $0. 
We all sign the non-compete agreement, and then go against it in the first 30 seconds after you get out the door.  If you wonder why your firm calls you a liar and untrustworthy, it's because in their eyes you are.
I'm not calling you a liar or untrustworthy, but please don't cry about it when your firm does.  It's just the natural course from your choice.  They are just trying to keep their clients they paid you all of those commission checks to get.
PS. I haven't had any Kool-aid this weekend.  So don't blame this post on it.  My fresh batch of Kool-aid is sitting in the fridge wainting for Monday morning.

babbling looney's picture
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I'm not calling you a liar or untrustworthy, but please don't cry about it when your firm does.  It's just the natural course from your choice.  They are just trying to keep their clients they paid you all of those commission checks to get.
Bull pucky. Of course you are calling me a liar and untrustworthy.  I don't care.  How does that justify churning and burning in client's accounts just because I got fed up with the lies and manipulation of Edward Jones and left for greener $$$$$ pastures?  It doesn't.  Whatever you think of the leaving reps, there is no justification for treating the clients in the unscrupulous way that Jones does when the IRs leave. 
By the way you should let that Kool-aid warm up before your weekly enema.

Indyone's picture
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babbling looney wrote:By the way you should let that Kool-aid warm up before your weekly enema.
 ...if only KAL realized how silly he/she sounded...

Kool-Aid Lover's picture
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I drink my Kool-aid the normal way, I don't think it would have the same effect going in through out door...Buuurrrp!

Incredible Hulk's picture
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babbling looney wrote:   What is also unethical is to tell lies and spread innuendos about the outgoing IR. Casting doubt on the honesty, integrity and credibility so they can make movements in the portfolios.
If you don't think this is S.O.P., you have your head where the sun don't shine.   I wasn't gone from my office for less than a few hours when they started calling. 

Having personally worked in the transitions department and personally calling on clients on a Friday afternoon after a broker quits I can shed some light on this guy who apparently has his head where "the sun don't shine." They don't allow the transitional team to give the reason why a broker left or any details other than he left, period. The clients are told that a TR will be there on Monday (assuming the branch is big enough, and I'm guessing in this guy's case it wasn't).
In one instance the departing broker told his clients he was fired because he didn't drink... I mean come on, there are some morons hired by Jones and there are certainly some that quit and post ridiculous remarks on this website. Jones is not perfect, has never been and never will be, but is a great firm, nonetheless.

Please tell me how brainwashed I am and open up my eyes.

Incredible Hulk's picture
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exdrone wrote: How do the clones justify settling with Maine but saying Calif has no case beacuse the federal settlement covers the individual states?  They should fire their attny's and have the best salesforce in the world make their case to the courts in California. 
It's about the dollars moron. Maine settled for $250k. You'd spend more than that defending it in court. Eliott Spitzer wannabe in Calif wanted in the neighborhood of $40 Mil. Extortion. Judge saw it for what it was and threw it out. That's why they defended it. Keep wasting your time whining about jones instead of building your business. The new jones guy knocking in your neighborhood appreciates it.

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Hulk,
How long have you been in the business 1 or 2 years.  From your zealous love for mother Jones I would guess 18mos... Am I close???  I could care less what happens in CA, unless of course it exposes more of the hypocrisy at the cult of Jones.  I think the damage to Jones has been done.  I predict that in 5 years Jones will have about 20preferred fund families with lower rev sharing payments that reflect the diluted influence jones has over the ir's.  You already have non-pref'ds at regional mtgs and a disclosure to hand out that makes you look like an idiot.  Keep doorknocking.  You'll be glad you did in 5 more years when you pull you head out and leave.

compliancejerk's picture
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IH are you getting your material from funny man bill fakland? The reason I ask is because you really are funny because I actually think you beileve what you post.
There is a big difference as to what's said by the TR "team" in stl and what the tr says out in the field. Were you ever out in the field as a TR?  How big of a book were you given for doing a good job in stl? the way everything is run at your "regional firm" there you'd think you're working at a financial MacDonald's or Wal-Mart, sure they've served billions but try to live 24/7 on micky d food and look what happens to you (there was some film done about that).  Sure Wal-Mart is good for a wide selection of items, but what happens when you wish to buy a cd put out by Deutsche Grammophon or a Hapsel suit you have to pay a little more for better quality.
As for drinking, some rl's are able to put it back and then there are some that seem as if that's all they do, so yes it is possible.  Still have seen proof of case being thrown out by Judge McMaster - FYI do your research on him and you'll see that a number of attempts have been made to have him removed from the bench (by both sides of the "floor") and as this "Spitzer wannabe" is like a dog with a bone, you may wish to wait for his appeal.
exdrone is correct - the shine is off your firm. ej is no worse than the rest, and it definately is NOT any better either and that's what this really about.  time for your firm to stop that part of the kool-aid plan.

Cowboy93's picture
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Anyone see the Reg Rep cover story about ole EJ?  It's available on this very site.

Devoted SA's picture
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noggin wrote:Devoted SA wrote:
Player, yes it's true New IR's are encouraged by mentors, DL's, TL's, regional leaders and senior vets to "churn & burn" assets taken over in an existing ofc. My RR and I took over an existing ofc in '99 with about $3 mil in assets and were told to "hit the phone and start dialing for dollars" (which was their loose translation for meet all your existing clients, and introduce yourself as their new rep).
Thankfully seven years later, we escaped the Jonestown compound and are living and working INDEPENDANTLY!

Maybe you don't have time to learn spelling, but independently is spelled this way. How is meeting existing clients and introducing yourself as the new rep "churning & burning"???

Noggin....Yes it's true, I confess I've been busy, transferring assets from Jones to our new office.  If you listen closely you might hear the sniffling from the three worthless IRs they handed our assets to.
Don't you try to tell me there hasn't been a time EVER in your career with Jones you've been a few points short for a div-trip and you looked over every account, for every angle to make sure you qualify for the next trip. And don't tell me you haven't seen your fellow IRs, at one point in time do the same thing.
OH, BTW I'll "learn" to spell. You, on the other hand will still be living in the dark and running on that hampster wheel to make your measly 60% a month, while lining the pockets of the jeeps!

Bill Fakkland's picture
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Nicole, sweetheart. Thanks for updating every single thread on this message board about the California deal. As you well know, we are all waiting on pins and needles for the final resolution to this matter. I have personally been consuming mason jars of Vodka in huge quantities due to incredible stress this looming judgement is placing on me, my family and my business. In fact, just a few minutes ago, I attempted suicide by ramming my head repeatedly with my computer monitor. It didn't work because of the soft, squishy nature of the screen and all I got was a mild headache, which was easily relieved by ingesting crack coccaine, which was provided to me by the Dentist next door. Yes, Nicole, we are all very worried and we wait eagerly for every bit of news that you so ably and consistently provide. I wish I could have had an excellent BOA like you who stands at the ready to inform and report, rather than actually doing work.

Indyone's picture
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 Bill, you're funny, even with the Kool-Aid addiction...

Devoted SA's picture
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Keep on running on that hamster wheel Bill. You might get thrown a few pellets from the GP's.

Devoted SA's picture
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Oh, and another thing...you do know I don't count as one of your 25 contacts for the day right?

Bill Fakkland's picture
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Oh Nicole, how funny. you and I both know that it's 25 REAL contacts a day. Former loser BOA's making 25,000 a year who are no the internet all day don't count. Even Edward Jones wouldn't take you as a client, dear. Keep filing those nails!

exdrone's picture
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Cowboy93 wrote:Anyone see the Reg Rep cover story about ole EJ?  It's available on this very site.
Great article.  Could someone tell me the first time Jones said they were going to have email in every branch within a year.  They were saying it when I started about seven years ago. 
And what is Jones financial planning software going to look like...that could get humerous.  Most of the reps in my old region could not understatnd a monte carlo scentario let alone explain it to a client.  Anyway, good to see Weddle talk about making some real changes......yea right.

babbling looney's picture
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Bill Fakkland wrote:Oh Nicole, how funny. you and I both know that it's 25 REAL contacts a day. Former loser BOA's making 25,000 a year who are no the internet all day don't count. Even Edward Jones wouldn't take you as a client, dear. Keep filing those nails!
Typical Jones paternalistic condescending bs answer.

Incredible Hulk's picture
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Devoted SA wrote: noggin wrote:Devoted SA wrote:
. You, on the other hand will still be living in the dark and running on that hampster wheel to make your measly 60% a month, while lining the pockets of the jeeps!

Darling, it's 39%, but my 39% is considerably more than your 25 grand a year. Go back to the nails and keep working on that GED

Incredible Hulk's picture
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exdrone wrote: Hulk,
How long have you been in the business 1 or 2 years.  From your zealous love for mother Jones I would guess 18mos... Am I close???  QUOTE]
Not that I need to justify myself to crybaby, but 5 yrs los and long enough to listen to the bs from 3 bms.

Devoted SA's picture
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Bill Fakkland wrote:Oh Nicole, how funny. you and I both know that it's 25 REAL contacts a day. Former loser BOA's making 25,000 a year who are no the internet all day don't count. Even Edward Jones wouldn't take you as a client, dear. Keep filing those nails!
You sure do seem to spend an awful lot of time on the internet Bill. You must have alot of time on YOUR hands. Are you sure you can't squeeze a few more bucks out of Grandma's portfolio? Come on now, type INV,NEWIR and see what you can find in inventory.
 

Devoted SA's picture
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Incredible Hulk wrote: Devoted SA wrote: noggin wrote:Devoted SA wrote:
. You, on the other hand will still be living in the dark and running on that hampster wheel to make your measly 60% a month, while lining the pockets of the jeeps!
Darling, it's 39%, but my 39% is considerably more than your 25 grand a year. Go back to the nails and keep working on that GED
 
Babe, your 39% a year couldn't afford me on your best day, in your wildest dreams. It takes me 20 mins to do what it takes some BOAs all day.
 I'm glad you are so eager to earn 39% of what you make every year, AND volunteer every spare minute you have to some fledgling drone who ISN'T going to make it, AND recruit every has-been you can scrounge up to apply at Jones, so you can get one point towards your next vacation.
Oh....I've got to go it's time for my next coffee break, if I hurry I'll have time to file my nails too. 

compliancejerk's picture
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Nicole,
Where were you when I was looking for a boa????

babbling looney's picture
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Incredible Hulk wrote: Devoted SA wrote: nogginDarling, it's 39%, but my 39% is considerably more than your 25 grand a year. Go back to the nails and keep working on that GED[/quote wrote:
Again the hypocrisy of the Jones mind set.  The mantra is that the BOA is an equal partner in the business, can't get along without her but the true colors come out here.  They really think the BOA (and female IRs) are second class citizens, glorified secretaries and dim bulbs who spend all day filing their nails.  Sure, they (Jones) give good lip service to "diversity"  but in practice these guys revert to name calling and belittling anyone who isn't WASP male and who challenges their tiny world view.
They are incredible throwbacks to the 1930's when the little woman had her place at home and people of color knew how to toe the line.  They are dicks.  At least Dirk, who is also one, is an honest one.  He admits it and is not ashamed to be a prick of gargantuan size (living up to his screen name )  That's Ok. I'd rather deal with an honest person than someone who is a hypocrite.    I'd also rather deal with someone who isn't so deluded by the company line that they can't discuss or accept criticism in a rational way. 
Every day I thank my self for kicking Jones to the curb. 
 

Bill Fakkland's picture
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Good comeback, Nicole and Dime. Most thinking people know how infrequently I actually post on here. I reserve my comments for the really, really stupid people...a select group of which you can lay claim to being the most worthy member to date. In fact, the idea of a lowly assistant posting on what is supposed to be a broker forum strikes me as rather odd. Maybe you should try posting comments on www.icantgetanactualsalesjob.com . As far as newir inventory goes, I'll take a peek forthwith and see what is available. In the meanwhile, do us all a favor and find another place to waste your boss's time.

Malcolm's picture
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Joined: 2004-12-02

"Lowly assistant"   Well that's a real nice thing to say Bill but it is the typical IR mindset.  My thoughts are that I will bet she knows more about investment products than you do since she works in an environment that permits intelligent and thoughtful investment advice.  She works with investments that you cant even offer. 
You also have too big of an ego to admit the realities of your work place.  How sad for you.  Poor Bill. 
200 new IRs a month!  Wow, and even at that they can't grow the work force!  The chickens are coming home to roost and I'm loving it.

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