AGE Inside Information

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Broker010's picture
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28, If the WS offer isn't acceptable to you, don't forget that AGE will no longer exist. Who is your clients' loyalty with, you or WS (or no one). Assuming you've treated them right, You should have their full support if you need to move.

troll's picture
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Broker010 wrote:Ferris, My gut tells me that $500+ guys will get 100% T12. They deserve every penny and can get it elsewhere and WB knows this. 
And I would love nothing more than getting 100% of my T12.  My suggestion earlier was a best of all world scenario.  I get paid well and the sub 350 group gets something.  At least that way our firm can stay intact.
If this is truly a MERGER and they want to retain the AGE culture, expect something for the sub 350 group.  If it's a pure asset takeover, expect nothing.  I guess we'll know next week what it really is.  Based on Bagby's actions, I suspect the later.
 
advisor28 wrote: My contention is that if you have been in the business under 2 years and you post $175K trailing 12 months your ahead of the curve.  Why would you risk losing that producer?  If the regional guys have a say in this it certainly would help preserve the rookie quality...
Most compensation packages are blanket grids, but I agree with you.  Someone who is ramping up should be considered.  Maybe they will have a side scale for producers with less than 5 years experience.  That would be fair.

advisor28's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-04

I would agree and I feel good about client retention

Broker010's picture
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Ferris, Amen on all counts. If they make an offer like 0% 0-$350k and 40% 350-$550, they stand to lose literally the majority of the AGE sales force. I'm a moron and if I know this those MENSA superstars in the big chairs must know this. Ergo, why would they pay a @$10 premium for AGE stock knowing that over half those producers are potential attrition?? Once again, this all my damned gut talking.

age7877's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-02

Broker - I agree but what about the guy doing 500K that's been spoon fed assets his whole career. My experience is that there is a very uneven allocation of reassigned accounts.
What if I am given 30 mil and you don't get sh*t? Is it fair that I should be given a check now and you're fired? The average turn is 65 bps at the firm so if I'm average and get reassigned 30 mil my gross goes up by 200K.
The stats in this industry are b.s. What if we each bring in 500k in new assets and I invest in a V.A. at 5% - Nice day - But you wrap it at 1% - etc
Ultimately the higher producers should be given more. But the stats in the brokerage industry and similar to government reporting. Not everything is as it seems.
 

Broker010's picture
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7877, My point was just that every other firm in the country is far more cut-throat that AGE was. Now no one's neck is safe in this business. I'm not saying it's fair, it the nature of the beast.

AGE_Inside_Info's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-03

Shredder - the contract would have to have a clause(s) stating that AGE/
Wachovia will let you change your mind at any time during the 6 years
and just give the money back, plus I'm sure they'd expect Centennial
Money Market Trust compounded interest rates.

If it were as easy as chaging your mind in business/with contracts and
giving back the money, every broker with a brain would invest his sum for
max risk-adjusted growth, give back the money if a better offer came
along, and pocket the investment gains. Not gonna happen.

I would have your lawyer/a great lawyer read and re-read that contract. If
I were a 200K producer, there's no way I'd take the retention bonus, pay
taxes on it and bind myself to a bnak who's going to no doubt get rid of
two-faced good 'ol country boy Bagby, and cut, cut, cut commissionsl.
The days of the up to 44 percent AGE payout will be looong gone! Minus
the big guys, only greedy and lazy mofos will take the bait and enslave
themselves.

Let's see how many different AGE magnetic jacket pins we can get on
Ebay.

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/06/20/da ily49.html
(6.05 - this article references the Day in 2005 AGE put itself up for sale!!!
You'd have to be an idiot not to plow through the BS about not renewing
the posion pill for corporate goverance reasons...yada yada..that's about
what babgy sound like when he talks, which is why they are letting
Ludeman do the talking )

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.agedwards. com/
annualrpt/ar01/images/ben_edwards.jpg&imgrefurl=http://
www.agedwards.com/annualrpt/ar01/
letter_edwards.html&h=175&w=132&sz=8&hl=en&start=23&um=1&tbn i
d=kN-gUauolfUN0M:&tbnh=100&tbnw=75&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%
2522Bob%2BBagby%2522%2B%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%
3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
(Who misses Ben's combover?)

http://www.strayrescue.org/images/age_MrBagbyGracie.jpg
( I think the dog looks more attractive than stout little pug Bagby)

http://www.stlmag.com/core/includes/phpThumb/phpThumb.php?sr c=/
media/galleries/299/IMG_1425.jpg&w=378&q=100
(Caught red handed - like the stain on the shirt, what's in his hand).

age7877's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-02

Broker - Agreed - Thanks for the reply.

AGE_Inside_Info's picture
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Here's the correct link to the 2005 Bagby lie --

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/06/20/da ily49.html

AGE_Inside_Info's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-03

Ok, This is pissing me off..just delete the space in daily and it works --

Broker010's picture
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Insider, It's my understanding that these retention offers are usually forgivable loans (the upfront part, at least) If you leave, you repay the pro-rated portion. Even if there's a no-compete clause, brokerages pay these contract off every day to hire desirable broker from competitors. 

advisor28's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-04

AGE Inside Info: No one rambles without an agenda

AllREIT's picture
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Joined: 2006-12-16

AGE_Inside_Info wrote: I've been making my clients 
8-25 percent with very low risk. I have a strategy that has gotten 
numerous people 15 percent in 8 months, with little risk short of another
9/11.

Are you selling cash-covered puts? Buying catastrophe bonds/reinsurance side cars? What is it?

Broker010's picture
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Inside_Info., Are you mplying by your last post that your "inside info" confirms the retention package that's been rumored, 40% T12 $0-$350, 50% $350K-$499K, 60% $500K-799K, 100% $800K-up that Advisor 28 posted is correct? You seem conflicted with 28, in that case. I really am interested in inside info....that I don't already have as an AGE broker. I look forward to your explaination.

advisor28's picture
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I don't think anyone likes Bagby at this point certainly not me.  If Inside has better info I would like to hear, and I guess we will see how close the home office leak is.

Broker010's picture
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28, Outside shareholders sure like Bagby. From their perspective, he's been an absolute genius studd.

troll's picture
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On the bright side,  he made my restricted stock double in value over the past year.

Broker010's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-01

Plus, I think it all vests upon consumation of the deal.

Omirp222's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-02

 A $billion only equates into 150k per FC (6700 fc's).
Even if you take out the top produces and the bottom producers and do some simple math, the median producer will probably only see 150k over 6 year period (25k/year).  If the bottom is weighted (200-300k producers) either the top 15% won't get much more or the bottom aren't getting even close to 150k.
Looks like a "sale" to me.  Mark up the price (150k over 6 years) wait until 2008 then cut the grids by 25k/year.  They get all the FC's under contract (even better with a forgivable loan senerio), they retain assets, and their profit soars in a few years. 
Let's not forget the (company optional) 7.5% of gross to 401k's AGE chipped in last year.  Let me see, 0.075 x 350,000 = $26,250.  Hmm that number is familiar, isn't it?
 
 

shredder's picture
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vesting of stock only vests 100% on a "hostile takeover" which this is NOT. Our restricted stock/options do NOT automatically vest.

shredder's picture
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fyi -let's see if Insider has any good contacts....deal out soon...you should recieve the retention pkg  no later thatn Mon/Tues. Have not heard #'s.

Broker010's picture
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I read that AGE managements' restricted stock vests...Hmmmm....

Broker010's picture
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Re; Vesting: My source is the Wall Street Journal, in an article dated 06/01/2007, and I quote, " the deal will allow its managers and directors to cash out millions of dollars in stock and options. At $89.50" If I'm mis-reading this, please forgive me, I' just a dumb salesman.

troll's picture
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Broker010 wrote:Re; Vesting: My source is the Wall Street Journal, in an article dated 06/01/2007, and I quote, " the deal will allow its managers and directors to cash out millions of dollars in stock and options. At $89.50" If I'm mis-reading this, please forgive me, I' just a dumb salesman.
I tend to think you're right.  Usually the triggering event for accelerated vesting for any common stock is a change in control that can be measured objectively.  A "hostile takeover" is something which would generally be too subjective to put into a contract like that.

AGE_Inside_Info's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-03

Agree w/ Omirp222!

Does anyone know that AGE allegedly spends $75K to train each broker.
They are not going to just let under $150K producers walk, w/or w/o pay.
But, all of AGE's proprietary fee-based programs (some at 2.25 percent
for funds)...some soooo proprietary that no one else has anything like
them....were designed to retain assets.

While AGE monkeys in the training dept. only know A-shares of Capital
Income Builder and Bond Fund of America, AGE branches and greedy
producing BMs have been pushing proprietary fee-based programs like
crazy.

BTW, Inside-Info. has a job. Won't have time to get good inside info.
tomorrow unless it is texted to me.

For AGE brokers, want Inside Info., just read your BM'smail and faxes.
BMs are getting retention packages first

Reggin's picture
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AGE_Inside_Info wrote: Agree w/ Omirp222!

Does anyone know that AGE allegedly spends $75K to train each broker.
They are not going to just let under $150K producers walk, w/or w/o pay.

AGE spent that money, not Wachovia. Now all they have is a series 7
producer.   So what.

Quote:
But, all of AGE's proprietary fee-based programs (some at 2.25 percent
for funds)...some soooo proprietary that no one else has anything like
them....were designed to retain assets.

Like the CAAP program? The assets inside those accounts are ETF's.
Those ACAT away real easy.

Quote:
BTW, Inside-Info. has a job. Won't have time to get good inside info.
tomorrow unless it is texted to me.

And I'm sure you'll be the best dressed fry cook at Burger King. And
contrary to your statement, you've NEVER been able to get good inside
info. Everything you've posted is common knowledge mixed with some
bad guesses.

Broker010's picture
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Re: BM's getting retention offers first....Yesterday at 4:00 My BM & assistant BM locked themselves in the BM's office for a conference call. This is VERY non-typical behavior for them. These are NOT the conference-call-joiner type unless it's VERY important. I did not see any info about any scheduled conference call anywhere on our system for the rest of us. Read into this whatever you want, but I know what I'm reading it as. These guys are both friends of mine and I'll see what I can find out.

dontask's picture
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AGE_Inside_Info wrote:

While AGE monkeys in the training dept. only know A-shares of Capital
Income Builder and Bond Fund of America, AGE branches and greedy
producing BMs have been pushing proprietary fee-based programs like
crazy.

funny you mention that inside_info, although it is far from inside information -- just like all the other bits of gossip material you have provided on this forum. to repeat other replys, you obviously have no inside info

this excerpt from watch over ya's guide to investing in MFs (wachovia.com/files/GuideToMutualFund0305.pdf) has a paragraph on their annual push to sell their own funds (Evergreen, JennisonDryden, Strategic Partners and Worldwide Investors).

"During the course of annual business planning, business with our affiliates is included in establishing our sales goals. We intend, however, to make all recommendations independent of any such goals and based solely on our obligations to consider the clients’ objectives and needs."

to an age broker that has never had to push proprietary products- this is comical

troll's picture
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dontask wrote: AGE_Inside_Info wrote: While AGE monkeys in the training dept. only know A-shares of Capital Income Builder and Bond Fund of America, AGE branches and greedy producing BMs have been pushing proprietary fee-based programs like crazy. funny you mention that inside_info, although it is far from inside information -- just like all the other bits of gossip material you have provided on this forum. to repeat other replys, you obviously have no inside info this excerpt from watch over ya's guide to investing in MFs (wachovia.com/files/GuideToMutualFund0305.pdf) has a paragraph on their annual push to sell their own funds (Evergreen, JennisonDryden, Strategic Partners and Worldwide Investors). "During the course of annual business planning, business with our affiliates is included in establishing our sales goals. We intend, however, to make all recommendations independent of any such goals and based solely on our obligations to consider the clients’ objectives and needs." to an age broker that has never had to push proprietary products- this is comical
 
What's your name?

stockatty's picture
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Joined: 2007-05-17

I suggest anyone getting the boot or considering moving consult with an attorney. I have seen too many bkrs wait to consult with me until it was too late. If you need help I would be happy to assist, as I love going after these firms  for the little guy .Regards,Stuartwww.stockesq.com

Broker010's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-01

Atty, What, exactly, would you plan on "going after" AGE/WB for? We have no contracts currently and haven't been presented with any future contract or offer of any kind yet? Unitl we're presented with something that could be binding, I don't see anything any lawyer could do for anyone yet and, even when we have the new offer, what are you going to sue for, offering a contract???

Broker Fee's picture
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Joined: 2004-11-30

shredder wrote:fyi -let's see if Insider has any good contacts....deal out soon...you should recieve the retention pkg  no later thatn Mon/Tues. Have not heard #'s.
Yup most brokers will see their package on Monday. WB initially said it would be 2 weeks but have had to scramble to get them out because the internal heat was getting too hot.
As far as the numbers I'm hearing...let's just say somebody on this forum nailed it.

Broker010's picture
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Fee, so...what numbers are you hearing? There's been a lot of them posted here.

Broker010's picture
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Listening to the AGE confernce call just now, I almost believe that they don't even have a broker retention package together yet. How scary is that?

Baller's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-06

They have it.  You won't like it.  Please grab a glass of Koolaid.

Broker010's picture
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Baller. Let's have it then, why be coy? Here's your chance to be a star.

Downunder's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-05

Instead of trying to hop around and move either Indy or to another firm, it may be in the best interests of the FC's, FA's in individual AGE branches to just negotiate a deal with someone like MS, MER, Dain, Ray J, Wall Street Securities, LPL,or whomever to move the entire office at one time to another firm, if FC's are not happy. This would scare the hell out of Sr. Management at AGE/WB and would really make them wake up to the seriousness of this sale, not merger. It's just easier to change the name on the building to another firm and have new cards printed. I am sure that the AGE FC would retain 100% of the client base. Something to seriously think about, but needs the support and coordination of the entire AGE office. Noty sure if this is viable, but certainly a thought. The power to succeed stands with the masses.

blarmston's picture
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Joined: 2005-02-26

It could be done. I remember hearing aobut entire offices at Advest that did that when the Merrill deal went down...

Broker Fee's picture
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Broker010 wrote:Fee, so...what numbers are you hearing? There's been a lot of them posted here.
Ok ...just fininishing up the conference call, and they DID reveal some interesting points.
As far as the comp deals are concerened...don't expect a mass exodus as some have predicted. Nearly every core member of the field will receive some kind of offer.  Now wheather they take it or not is another question.

Broker010's picture
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Fee, If it's the rumored package that starts with 40% $0-$350k T12, then I expect you're right, that there won't be mass exodous. I expect that would be compelling for most, for better or worse.

OMICO's picture
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A Core FA at WB is someone doing 300k+......0-300k is not a core FA...

troll's picture
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How do you know that a mass exodus isn't already built into the price of the deal?

Broker010's picture
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Well, I guess that's that. There is not nor has there ever been any AGE Inside Info on this thread and I guess the outside speculation has played itself out. Too bad, I almost believed a couple of you when you said you knew things I don't about the merger/retention package.

Omirp222's picture
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They had the package together before they announced the "takeover".  FC salaries and benefits are the single biggest expense for AGE by far.  It's like buying a gas station and trying to say you have no idea how much gas costs but you'll figure it out later.  Either you'll fail miserably in business or you're lying.

Omirp222's picture
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Broker010 wrote:Fee, If it's the rumored package that starts with 40% $0-$350k T12, then I expect you're right, that there won't be mass exodous. I expect that would be compelling for most, for better or worse.
 
350k x 0.4 / 6(years) = $23,333/year
350k x 0.075 (AGE company 401k contributions) = $26,250/year
I may be a noob, but I see a pattern here.  I'd make sure I got 401k contributions locked in, at least in a range, before I signed anything.
"Due to unexpected costs associated with the merger, we're sorry to inform all FC's that Wachovia will not be able to make any additional contributions to employee 401k's this year" 
"We would also like to remind all FC's of their contract they signed"  /evil grin

Broker010's picture
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222, If you do any legwork at all, it's easy to find that Wachovia Securities has a 6% 401(k) "match" policy already in place. I bow to your superior math skills, but my gut tells me that the 401(k) employer contributions won't be slashed.

Broker010's picture
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222, Also, the AGE 401(k) employer contribution is based on an FC's INCOME, NOT his GROSS PRODUCTION. Other than that, you make a lot of good points.

Omirp222's picture
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Broker010 wrote:222, Also, the AGE 401(k) employer contribution is based on an FC's INCOME, NOT his GROSS PRODUCTION. Other than that, you make a lot of good points.
Good points.  I just don't see how they're going to pay for everything and still make their profit goals in the years ahead.  Something has to give, either less support and less money for FC's on the same $$ produced, more production from FC's (on same expense $$) or a combination of the 2.
According to the WS slide presentation, they have some pretty aggressive profit goals for the merged company.

Broker010's picture
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Agreed. I just keep hoping for some real insight. It's apparent there isn't any in here. I'm just frustrated.

shredder's picture
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Joined: 2007-06-04

shredder wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that we have no control over this situation and therefore we will all have to suffer and wait till next week, at least.  Time to quit speculating and try to make this a good month and for obvious reasons.  Come next week, month, quarter, whatever time frame, we can make educated decisions based upon the info in front of us. The bottom line is that we are crazy to not stick around and see what the next few months bring. 100% 50%, nothing....we'll know soon enuf.  Doesn't mean that you shouldn't at least do your due diligence.
Don't think that the #'s of "retained" brokers hasn't been baked into the Bagby pie. Read the news release again closely....WB says they figure to only lose 3% "of the advisors we want to keep". Enuf said.

Sorry to repeat myself.....

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